Apple iPhone 15 Live Event "Wonderlust"

DukenukemX said:
Just want to point out that Samsung's Note 3 has had USB 3.0 speeds since 2013. You mean to tell me that iPhones have only now gotten USB 3.0, and only for iPhone 15 Pro and Pro Max? Also seems kinda cheap that Apple is still using the A16 on their base model iPhone 15. So buying a base model iPhone 15 is like buying the iPhone 14 Pro and Pro Max? Why even have a base model when a smart consumer could just buy a discounted iPhone 14 Pro?
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Oh, I'm definitely aware. My theory is that Apple really was wedded to Lightning, and didn't want to change the spec until it was ready to completely move away.

The iPhone 14 Pro will be viable for a while as a 15 alternative, but I suspect the 15 will come into its own as sales and promos start. That and there may be a few reasons to buy the 15. It's significantly lighter; it has a brighter main camera aperture, and shoots 24MP 'native' shots instead of 12MP; it has newer image processing; it should last longer on battery. People like us would make a beeline toward the Pro, but the everyday user who doesn't insist on AOD or a telephoto lens will probably wait for a good deal on a 15.
 
DukenukemX said:
Just want to point out that Samsung's Note 3 has had USB 3.0 speeds since 2013. You mean to tell me that iPhones have only now gotten USB 3.0, and only for iPhone 15 Pro and Pro Max? Also seems kinda cheap that Apple is still using the A16 on their base model iPhone 15. So buying a base model iPhone 15 is like buying the iPhone 14 Pro and Pro Max? Why even have a base model when a smart consumer could just buy a discounted iPhone 14 Pro?
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From what I can glean base iPhone 15 uses usb-c connector while iPhone 14 pro still uses lightning connector. I personally prefer usb c. You can compare the models differences here - https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?modelList=iphone-14-pro,iphone-15
 
In other news Apple and Capcom are apparently having a fling on bringing AAA content to the 15 so... That could get interesting
 
Mchart said:
15 isn’t $1k.
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Depending on the storage configuration, it can be and more.
As for the test, the geek bench numbers speak for themselves. You can come up with any scenario you want to make the android phone look better or vice versa. This is why you use something objective like geekbench.
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Like most synthetic tests, Geekbench is worthless other than comparing one iPhone to another. The video in question shows that after a while the iPhone 14 Pro Max got much slower and dimmed the display due to heating issues. Unlike the S23 Ultra where nothing changed throughout the tests. It took 10 minutes for the performance and screen to degrade, which is beyond any Geekbench test, which is usually just a few minutes. Geekbench doesn't tell you real world situations where this gaming test does. I imagine some people do use their phones for more than 10 minutes at a time.
 
DukenukemX said:
Depending on the storage configuration, it can be and more.

Like most synthetic tests, Geekbench is worthless other than comparing one iPhone to another. The video in question shows that after a while the iPhone 14 Pro Max got much slower and dimmed the display due to heating issues. Unlike the S23 Ultra where nothing changed throughout the tests. It took 10 minutes for the performance and screen to degrade, which is beyond any Geekbench test, which is usually just a few minutes. Geekbench doesn't tell you real world situations where this gaming test does. I imagine some people do use their phones for more than 10 minutes at a time.
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And I've used my 14 PM for hours at a time sometimes, which included playing graphically demanding games, and I didn't have this issue. Your 10 minute video isn't a "real world situation" that applies to every user. It's a random YouTube video that you've found to reenforce your bias. I've never had an iPhone start choking after 10 minutes. You sound like you've never used an iPhone before.
 
Shoganai said:
And I've used my 14 PM for hours at a time sometimes, which included playing graphically demanding games, and I didn't have this issue.
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What you mean to say is that you didn't notice it. You most likely aren't noticing the screen dimming and the phone getting slower.
Your 10 minute video isn't a "real world situation" that applies to every user.
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Didn't you just say that you've played demanding games for hours? This would absolutely effect you and everyone who uses demanding applications on their iPhone.
It's a random YouTube video that you've found to reenforce your bias.
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And Geekbench doesn't reinforce your bias?
I've never had an iPhone start choking after 10 minutes.
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Now you will look and notice that the screen will dim and the phones speed will get slower.
You sound like you've never used an iPhone before.
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Dude I repair iPhones and I know they don't like temp. In order to remove the back glass I gotta heat it up a lot, and immediately I see the screen dimming and the phone will even refuse to work until it cools down. The cooling on the iPhones aren't good.
 
DukenukemX said:
Dude I repair iPhones and I know they don't like temp. In order to remove the back glass I gotta heat it up a lot, and immediately I see the screen dimming and the phone will even refuse to work until it cools down. The cooling on the iPhones aren't good.
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Hold up, who in their right mind takes apart a device while it's powered on?
 
Do people really still use the lightning/USB port to transfer anything to/from a phone?
 
DukenukemX said:
. It took 10 minutes for the performance and screen to degrade, which is beyond any Geekbench test, which is usually just a few minutes. Geekbench doesn't tell you real world situations where this gaming test does
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Isn't short burst much more real world situation of what people do with a phone than a game ?
 
NightReaver said:
Pics? Way faster than Bluetooth.
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Most people transferring pictures are doing so via Wi-Fi, why would they be using Bluetooth? It’s really only relevant for those with the pro phone doing ProRes raw recording.
 
Mchart said:
Most people transferring pictures are doing so via Wi-Fi, why would they be using Bluetooth? It’s really only relevant for those with the pro phone doing ProRes raw recording.
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USB is still faster.

Seriously though, some people are jumping through hoops to justify something as old as usb2. Ask for better, guys. You're paying for it.
 
NightReaver said:
USB is still faster.

Seriously though, some people are jumping through hoops to justify something as old as usb2. Ask for better, guys. You're paying for it.
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I've been complaining about it on the pro phones since about the 11 Pro. It never made any sense given the camera quality and pushing pro-res raw as a thing.

On the normal phones though? 99% of the people using those phones don't care. They only ever get plugged in for charging.

That being said - It's not a big enough deal for me to switch to Android. Android/Google and me are done. Have been since the Galaxy S6-ish time frame.
 
NightReaver said:
USB is still faster.

Seriously though, some people are jumping through hoops to justify something as old as usb2. Ask for better, guys. You're paying for it.
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It seems people are going to give the money no matter what, instead of holding them to a higher standard. Apple knows this, why would the concern themselves with correcting it? I agree with you for what it's worth.
 
Mchart said:
I've been complaining about it on the pro phones since about the 11 Pro. It never made any sense given the camera quality and pushing pro-res raw as a thing.

On the normal phones though? 99% of the people using those phones don't care. They only ever get plugged in for charging.
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And Apple has been pushing wireless charging for a long while now and showing off how easy it is to wirelessly charge their devices, like having your macbook plugged in to charge and just placing your ipad or iphone on top of it and having it wirelessly charge that way, stuff like that.
Wireless charging + iCloud adoption rates, really means that the physical plugin port, which is the most commonly damaged component on the phone, has a very short life ahead of it.

Apple is already working with Ford, Toyota, and Scoche, for Apple approved wireless charging accessories so, yeah, I give that physical USB port until the 17 at most, I doubt it will be seen on the 18.
 
SystemXS said:
It seems people are going to give the money no matter what, instead of holding them to a higher standard. Apple knows this, why would the concern themselves with correcting it? I agree with you for what it's worth.
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At the end of the day the iPhone has iOS which is the biggest reason it sells so well. The iPhone hardware & iOS have to really be far behind for people to switch to Android. This really only happened around the iPhone 6/7/8 generation. I don't see Android ever having Apple that far behind again given how powerful their SOC's and the good work with iOS since the iPhone 11 generation.
 
Mchart said:
At the end of the day the iPhone has iOS which is the biggest reason it sells so well. The iPhone hardware & iOS have to really be far behind for people to switch to Android. This really only happened around the iPhone 6/7/8 generation. I don't see Android ever having Apple that far behind again given how powerful their SOC's and the good work with iOS since the iPhone 11 generation.
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Oh I agree, but they should still be accountable for poor/lazy choices. I don't know what the cost difference is to implement usb 3 vs 2 in their usb-c port, but we're not talking about low margin items here, it should have been covered. That said, I will b eon my 13 until it blows up, but it's nice to know in the future I will no longer need a different cable than I use for literally everything else.
 
SystemXS said:
Oh I agree, but they should still be accountable for poor/lazy choices. I don't know what the cost difference is to implement usb 3 vs 2 in their usb-c port, but we're not talking about low margin items here, it should have been covered. That said, I will b eon my 13 until it blows up, but it's nice to know in the future I will no longer need a different cable than I use for literally everything else.
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I suspect what someone said prior is likely true - It's not something that the A16 SOC is capable of, so the A17 SOC is the first that can do it. It's not something that they could likely easily slap on unless they invested the money to re-engineer the A16 SOC which would be a giant money sink for no reason.
 
Mchart said:
I suspect what someone said prior is likely true - It's not something that the A16 SOC is capable of, so the A17 SOC is the first that can do it. It's not something that they could likely easily slap on unless they invested the money to re-engineer the A16 SOC which would be a giant money sink for no reason.
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Yah, I would have thought there could have been an eternal solution outside of the SoC, but I'm not a phone engineer either, so that might be farfetched.
 
For all the iPhones Gen 6 onwards Apple has used a USB controller external to the SoC, the model changes but they use a controller manufactured by Tristar, they all operate in the 1.1-5v range and can support the USB 3.0 charging standards but Apple modified them a bit, they cut back on their throughput so they can instead get extra reporting out of them as well as some power smoothing options, battery health, blah blah blah. They could use a more expensive controller that gets all that same functionality but also the USB 3 transfer speeds but that would 1 cost them more which we know Apple is not at all about, and 2 it would from my understanding of the modifications they made break compatibility with a lot of existing Apple accessories, of which CarPlay is one. Guaranteed that would land them a lawsuit in California and the EU, as well as piss off Ford, Toyota, and pretty much everybody but GM who has already announced they are dropping both CarPlay and Android Auto.

So Apple will likely ride out the transfer speeds for another gen or 2, until they can finally push the physical port off the platform, for fast charging they already push wireless chargers as those do 15w whereas USB3 tops out at 4.5w, CarPlay has an update for most head units which should upgrade them from CarPlay to CarPlay Pro giving full wireless functionality.
Apple is also pushing the use of Bluetooth for file transfers anyway and not the physical connection, so they have already begun "training" their users on that front.

Apple wants the physical ports gone, because it 1 removes what is the currently the most commonly damaged component that they deal with, and 2 it gives them just that much more control over the accessories market for their devices.
 
Lakados said:
for fast charging they already push wireless chargers as those do 15w whereas USB3 tops out at 4.5w
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15w wireless is "fast"? Oh, God no.

4.5w on USB? No. Even if that was a typo and was 45, still no. There are phones with 100w+ charging and 40+ wireless.
 
NightReaver said:
15w wireless is "fast"? Oh, God no.

4.5w on USB? No. Even if that was a typo and was 45, still no. There are phones with 100w+ charging and 40+ wireless.
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The iphone has supported much higher wattage charging for a while now. 14 & 14 pro were around 25-30w. I'm sure now moving to USBC it's more.

I have no idea what the other number is, unless they're talking about the iPhone 15's ability to charge other devices is capped at 4.5w.
 
Mchart said:
The iphone has supported much higher wattage charging for a while now. 14 & 14 pro were around 25-30w. I'm sure now moving to USBC it's more.

I have no idea what the other number is, unless they're talking about the iPhone 15's ability to charge other devices is capped at 4.5w.
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Ah yeah, reverse charging is always a lot lower. Maybe that was it.
 
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Mchart said:
The iphone has supported much higher wattage charging for a while now. 14 & 14 pro were around 25-30w. I'm sure now moving to USBC it's more.

I have no idea what the other number is, unless they're talking about the iPhone 15's ability to charge other devices is capped at 4.5w.
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But wireless charging still requires about 47% more power to charge the same amount as using a cable...
 
1_rick said:
In what world?
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All of them go read the 3.0 spec.
USB 3 is a mess of spec parts, which is why there are at least 8 variants of it now
USB4 is calling for an official 45v at 5a
USB3 is a mess, and power delivery and voltages change between each.

3.0
3.1.1
3.1.2
3.2.1
3.2.1.2
3.2.2.1
3.2.2.2

Then you get into the "Super Speed" variants of 3

But the official USB spec sheet calls for 5v with 900ma for USB 3.0 and 3.1, if you use plugs B and C in conjunction you can go up to 1.5 if you are on USB 3.2, if you are using only USB C to USB C you can do up to 3A.
 
NightReaver said:
15w wireless is "fast"? Oh, God no.

4.5w on USB? No. Even if that was a typo and was 45, still no. There are phones with 100w+ charging and 40+ wireless.
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And that is off spec.
USB4 standardizes 48v at 5A, with USB4 Gen3.2 doing 40Gbps at 100W, but USB4 is barely a standard and mostly a renaming of the 3.2 Superspeed variants, but using PAM-3 signaling.
But brings in better compatibility with DisplayPort 2.1, and incorporates some PCIE functionality for the Alt Modes.

Phone companies are playing fast and loose with USB specifications all in the name of USB-C, so they are running within spec of the cable but they are all over the map as to what USB spec they are following and what their compatibilities are.
 
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LukeTbk said:
USB 3.0
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Oh, he's referencing a 14 year old spec, no wonder. USB PD is a thing. "The first Power Delivery specification defined six fixed power profiles for the power sources. PD-aware devices implement a flexible power management scheme by interfacing with the power source through a bidirectional data channel and requesting a certain level of electrical power, variable up to 5 A and 20 V depending on supported profile."
 
Lakados said:
That’s not a standard USB spec
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Nope, just USB PD, and in 2023 it's pathetic that anything *doesn't* support PD.

Edit: USB PD 1 supported 5A at 12 and 20V.

Edit 2: Apple SIlicon Macs support 140W USB-C charging.
 
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1_rick said:
Nope, just USB PD, and in 2023 it's pathetic that anything *doesn't* support PD.

Edit: USB PD 1 supported 5A at 12 and 20V.
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More things should have basic PD, Apple has a bastardized version of it running at 2.2A for 9V, which is their 20W chargers and they have had that since the iPhone 8.

Apple has a weird problem that if they change too much they tend to get sued.
But they also have the problem where they get sued and forced to make a change, then get sued for making that change.
So really they cant win that way, just keep making gross amounts of money then declare victory while wiping the tears away with crisp bills I suppose.
 
Lakados said:
Apple has a weird problem that if they change too much they tend to get sued.
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Deprecating Lightning would be the perfect time to start properly supporting USB and USB PD, and a company that can just up and switch CPU architectures can say "sorry, your lightning stuff won't work any more, buy new cables" and apple users would probably fall all over themselves to run out and spend more money.
 
1_rick said:
Deprecating Lightning would be the perfect time to start properly supporting USB and USB PD, and a company that can just up and switch CPU architectures can say "sorry, your lightning stuff won't work any more, buy new cables" and apple users would probably fall all over themselves to run out and spend more money.
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They lost when they did that with the old cables moving to lightning, their only saving grace this time around is the EU is forcing them to.
But the last time the EU forced them to do something it was removing the charging bricks and Apple got sued for that too, and lost there as well.
 
DukenukemX said:
What you mean to say is that you didn't notice it. You most likely aren't noticing the screen dimming and the phone getting slower.
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I didn't notice it because it doesn't happen.

DukenukemX said:
Didn't you just say that you've played demanding games for hours? This would absolutely effect you and everyone who uses demanding applications on their iPhone.
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Yes I did just say that. I don't understand the rest of your sentence.

DukenukemX said:
And Geekbench doesn't reinforce your bias?
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I don't use Geekbench or look at Geekbench scores. I just use my iPhone.

DukenukemX said:
Now you will look and notice that the screen will dim and the phones speed will get slower.
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My phone doesn't get slower. The screen has dimmed from time to time if I'm directly in the summer heat outside all day. But it rarely happens.

DukenukemX said:
Dude I repair iPhones and I know they don't like temp.
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There aren't any devices that like "temp"...

DukenukemX said:
In order to remove the back glass I gotta heat it up a lot, and immediately I see the screen dimming and the phone will even refuse to work until it cools down. The cooling on the iPhones aren't good.
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What does you heating iPhone glass have anything to do with real world applications of using the phone? Are you high?
 
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