Anyone still big on flight sims?

Y

Yossarian22

[H]ard|Gawd
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Apr 27, 2009
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Recently with my engineering club here at college and my new found hobby in model airplanes, the dogfight/flight sim bug has caught my attention again. Not that I was ever any good in the first place. I have fond memories of playing WWII Online (now Battlefield Europe?) and I recall one particular sortie I was flying Hurricane Mk. I for over an hour while we sieged this town and then defended it from retaliatory attack. I did a lot of spotting and we had total air superiority, so I was doing combat air support, strafing StuGs, spotting positions of enemy armor, getting those pesky Opel trucks, and on occasion, the rare infantry soldier that looked like an ant from 1000-2000 feet. Fond memories, indeed.

So to relieve that itch I started playing Wings of Prey demo. I don't have my Saitek Cyborg 3D Gold here (my only real piece of gear for playing games that required joystick, doing Microsoft Combat Flight Sim used to use a MS gamepad from the early 2000 days. Never was into HOTAS or anything like that) so playing is a bit problematic.

Anyone still play flight sims, combat oriented, leisure, or otherwise? Talk gear, too. I tried doing a DIY IR Headtracker for ARMA II (infantry portion, mostly) -- gave me nausea. I am keen on trying such things again. Anyone use video goggles? 3D Surround? Eyefinity? Know any good USB foot rudder pedals?

Open discussion. Do you think flight sims are in the minority now because FPS and RTS have dominated the landscape because of console players or has it always been a niche? Talk about your experiences and opinions.
 
i wish MS had of made a new combat flight sim, i loved all of the old ones, i wonder why they let that line die!

mustang all the way!

i just think not enough really good FS come out as fast as other game genre's, i would play a good flight sim all night if i found one.
 
MrGuvernment said:
i wish MS had of made a new combat flight sim, i loved all of the old ones, i wonder why they let that line die!

mustang all the way!

i just think not enough really good FS come out as fast as other game genre's, i would play a good flight sim all night if i found one.
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So IL-2 Cliffs Of Dover is slated to be released April 19 (IL-2 Sturmovik was too difficult for me when I tried it, perhaps I need to give it another chance?)

DCS: A-10C Warthog is out, apparently, if you're more into the modern thing.

Wings of Prey seems pretty decent, it has the option for Arcade style play as well as simulation.

There is always WWII Online/Battlefield Europe and that other popular MMO style combat flight sim that allowed people to go on bomber missions and be gunners of bombers and other craft... forget the name at the moment, drawing a blank.

I liked Jane's USAF flying F-117A and painting targets and dropping my ordinance and watching it go 'boom' via thermal camera.
 
Yeah, I don't understand why they never made a combat flight simulator based on FSX.

FSX is also long in the tooth and in need of replacement. Came out way back in 06 IIRC, so we need something updated with better multi-core support and DX11 and multiplayer missions.
 
Lock-On: Modern Air Combat and IL-2 were my favorites. Still got my Saitek X-45 somewheres. :cool:
 
that why i liked CFS from MS, it was simple and not too hard to learn but took skill to play.
 
Using a Saitek X-52 on loan from a Flight Sim Junkie buddy. Have a DIY 3 point IR hat for use with freetrack, and eyefinity on three large screens for the near complete Flight sim experience.

No rudders yet, haven't been able to justify the price and just don't have too much time for the gaming, but damn, when I do, it's awesome. Head tracking + eyefinity really brings the genre to life as it allows you to get a *Much* better picture of what is going on around you, and situational awareness is pretty much the number one thing you need to have as a pilot.

If you've got some specific questions for me, just tell me what you'd like to know.
 
Yossarian22 said:
There is always WWII Online/Battlefield Europe and that other popular MMO style combat flight sim that allowed people to go on bomber missions and be gunners of bombers and other craft... forget the name at the moment, drawing a blank.
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Aces High is the name of the game. It's still around, can be found here. I used to love the game, and would love to go back to it if I had a HOTAS setup laying around here, but unfortunately I don't. It has a monthly fee of 10 bucks, which is decent.

I also have an interest on getting back into Flight Sim 2004 (9) or X. There are no stores around here in Anchorage that sells the Saitek X45 or X52, sadly. I would have to order one through Amazon.
 
so for aces high you have to pay 10 bucks a month to play it? how is the support are there many players on line playing? is there AI? Just asking before i install something else that I might not like.
 
FrozenLiquidity said:
Head tracking + eyefinity really brings the genre to life as it allows you to get a *Much* better picture of what is going on around you, and situational awareness is pretty much the number one thing you need to have as a pilot.
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Do you or did you suffer from nausea with the IR headtracking? That's the only time I've ever experienced it while gaming, I think it has something to do with projection of a 2D image that is made to look 3D while physically being still but then moving your head around along with your hands and eyes. Oh yeah, if you're using Freetrack, what webcam are you using?

AdmiralTiger said:
Aces High is the name of the game. It's still around, can be found here. I used to love the game, and would love to go back to it if I had a HOTAS setup laying around here, but unfortunately I don't. It has a monthly fee of 10 bucks, which is decent.
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ltcharles said:
so for aces high you have to pay 10 bucks a month to play it? how is the support are there many players on line playing? is there AI? Just asking before i install something else that I might not like.
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Yeah, the thing that bothered me with Aces High though was it seemed like everyone else was a pro and maybe I had a trial account (this was a looong time ago) but you had to get points to buy and fly a plane and it was a one shot only thing. If I recall, the best way to get points was to be a parachute plane and attempt to drop/invade enemy airfield/base?

But yeah, you had old Vietnam/Korean vets tearing you to pieces. Digitally. At least that is what I'd like to think... :(
 
IL2 is what I play mostly. I play it online on Skies of Valor (red vs blue obj based) which I belive is 50 players max.

I have rudders, x52, and trackir...put them together and you have droooooling awesomeness.

I will most definately be picking up cliffs of dover later this month.
 
Yossarian22 said:
Do you or did you suffer from nausea with the IR headtracking? That's the only time I've ever experienced it while gaming, I think it has something to do with projection of a 2D image that is made to look 3D while physically being still but then moving your head around along with your hands and eyes. Oh yeah, if you're using Freetrack, what webcam are you using?
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No, I suffer from no ill effects when playing like that. But I might be the exception here, as I never really suffered from any headaches or nausea from the old 3D vision either. I have had no problems with discomfort of any kind while gaming. If anything, exhiliration due to the heightened sense of realism the setup provides. I think I am using a Logitech C250 webcam, which while being a bit of a pain to reassemble, was pretty easy to perform the necessary modifications. I am not sure if I would reccomend it simply because I must readjust the settings for it every time I launch Freetrack. Of course, depending on ambient light levels and the time of day, I might need to do this anyway, so it could just be saving me a step...

So far I've played IL-2, Wings of Prey, Evochron Mercenary, and Rise of Flight with it. If any of you know of any other games that do well with it, I'd love to try. I hear Oblivion can use it, but I am not sure how that works. That's my next challenge I guess.

spacing guild said:
BF2 best flight sim ever! :p
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LOL, no - Sim and battlefield do not even belong in the same sentence! :p
 
check out www.freefalcon.com

its a heavily modified Falcon 4.0 (with updated graphics etc.) its my staple flight sim, along with A10-C and Blackshark.

Best part is its free :)
 
I bought Cliffs of Dover a few days ago from Justflight.com (no need to wait for Steam NA release date). This is the most abysmal release of a game I have ever seen. Everything in it is pure beta and not ready for prime time. But I am a sim-head so will stick it out. It's releases like this that do the genre no favours to win over new fans.

WoP is ok but too arcade for me but I bought it anyway, great graphics engine though. Hopefully WoP2 will be more sim-like in presentation.

The best newer flight sims one can buy now are DCS-A10 and Black Shark (very complex) or Rise of Flight (dynamic campaign system to be released for it very soon).
 
Couple of us pretty serious on DCS A-10c. I've played a handful of flight sims (FS2004 to FSX, IL2, Combat Flight Simulator, Wings of Prey, X-Plane), and by FAR, A-10c is the best I have ever played. It's graphically beautiful, it is incredibly accurate, and every single piece of the sim is realistic! I love having the plethora of buttons to push. Yes, firing a missile is a lot harder than just pulling the trigger, but hey, that's how it works.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1526583

I still play FSX a lot too. It's coded like poop, but still fun.

Things to keep an eye on are IL-2: Cliffs of Dover and Microsoft Flight. Dover comes out in a few weeks, and Flight is rumored to come out later this year.
 
Yossarian22 said:
Do you or did you suffer from nausea with the IR headtracking? That's the only time I've ever experienced it while gaming, I think it has something to do with projection of a 2D image that is made to look 3D while physically being still but then moving your head around along with your hands and eyes. Oh yeah, if you're using Freetrack, what webcam are you using?
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I use the proper TrackIR head tracking, and no there's no nausea for me, and I fly a real plane as well.

The motion sickness you are describing applies to all simulator gaming. You are moving according to your eyes, but your body is not. If anything, multi-monitors and trackIR may just enhance the sense of realistic movement without corresponding G-force load on your body. Almost everyone adapts to this disconnect after a few hours of gameplay and your brain remembers in the future. If you don't, it means your brain is slightly retarded.... :p

BTW, having used eyefinity and TrackIR, its pointless.

Get TrackIR or get Eyefinity, you really don't need both. From a performance and reliability standpoint, a single large monitor w/ trackIR is better, as Eyefinity in landscape will cause too much fishbowl distortion on your outside monitors to be useful, whereas TrackIR on a bigscreen lets you look around the cockpit and flip all the switches that would otherwise be illegible.
 
Ducman69 said:
BTW, having used eyefinity and TrackIR, its pointless.

Get TrackIR or get Eyefinity, you really don't need both. From a performance and reliability standpoint, a single large monitor w/ trackIR is better, as Eyefinity in landscape will cause too much fishbowl distortion on your outside monitors to be useful, whereas TrackIR on a bigscreen lets you look around the cockpit and flip all the switches that would otherwise be illegible.
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I vehemently disagree.

While I imagine that might be the case for non-combat flight sims, I have found that eyefinity and TrackIR work very well together when you must rely on visual contact with other aircraft while maintaining a clear sense of the direction of your own. Knowing exactly where the nose of my craft is, and where the enemy is in relation to me at the same time can often help me get the advantage far quicker than my opponents. Without eyefinity, my eyes are either on the bandit, or facing forward (preferrably both), but when it comes down to tight manuvering it's generally either or. Eyefinity allows me to keep both at many times, and in general gives me a much better awareness of my surroundings. Instead of my view being restricted to 11-1 o'clock, it's wide enough to cover over a third of the clock <10 - 2> o'clock or so.

Whether it is worth the extra cost or not is a completely differnet ballgame, but when it comes to combat flight simulators, especially the ones which involve a lot of dogfighting, there is a definite advantage to having both eyefinity and trackIR. If you're just doing non-combat or modern flight sims where most of the action takes place in the cockpit, you may be better suited for a single-monitor setup.

As for performance and reliablity - I have had zero issues with my setup running either single monitor or eyefinity. There has been virtually no difference in operation and no noticeable drop in performance for me.

Perhaps it's pointless for you, but it's been an excellent experience for me and I won't hesitate to reccomend it to other simmers.
 
FrozenLiquidity said:
I vehemently disagree.
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How do you decrease the barrel/fisheye distortion in these games with Eyefinity?

Do you have any experience using head mounted displays? Like the Vuzix Wrap? I go to a pretty big college, I wonder if one of the graphics or specialty labs have something like that, then I need to attach an accelerometer/gyroscope to my head. ;)
 
Ducman69 said:
BTW, having used eyefinity and TrackIR, its pointless.
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Have to disagree with you. Real pilot here too. I love having peripheral vision. Its overkill, sure, but then again, if you are running eyefinity you aren't too concerned about money anyways. ;)

I run TrackIR, 5760x1080 and it's awesome. I'm also running off of ONE 6950 just fine. DCS A-10c stays over 40fps, FSX is a wild beast but in the air I have it locked at 30fps, and Wings of Prey never even hiccups.

Try playing with your FoV to fix any distortion. One thing to remember though, is with using TrackIR you should be looking at your center monitor only. Side monitors are for peripheral which does have some natural fisheye effects. You don't see in 2d. That's all that eyefinity is doing.

And if you are ever double questioning spending too much on your rig for flight sims, just find out how much a Private license costs!
 
monkey_slap said:
Have to disagree with you. Real pilot here too. I love having peripheral vision. Its overkill, sure, but then again, if you are running eyefinity you aren't too concerned about money anyways. ;)

I run TrackIR, 5760x1080 and it's awesome. I'm also running off of ONE 6950 just fine. DCS A-10c stays over 40fps, FSX is a wild beast but in the air I have it locked at 30fps, and Wings of Prey never even hiccups.

And if you are ever double questioning spending too much on your rig for flight sims, just find out how much a Private license costs!
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I was playing Wings of Prey on my Thinkpad while I was working at 1280x720, minimal settings... was in the mid 30s, definitely not preferable but it was certainly do-able. The game is gentle on the GPU, that's for sure.
 
Might have to check out the Warthog game, as I am very disappointed with IL2-CoD :( It literally is a beta that was released as gold. TrackIR is the greatest as far as I am concerned, been using it or something like it forever in flightsims.
 
Yossarian22 said:
How do you decrease the barrel/fisheye distortion in these games with Eyefinity?

Do you have any experience using head mounted displays? Like the Vuzix Wrap? I go to a pretty big college, I wonder if one of the graphics or specialty labs have something like that, then I need to attach an accelerometer/gyroscope to my head. ;)
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Changing the FOV can reduce the effect, but that almost negates the point of having it in the first place. Eyefinity simulates peripheral vision with the side displays. This is an important aspect of your vision and the distortion is a natural part of this. It may also be very much less apparent to me because of the size of the screens I use.

I have not used Vuzix Wrap, and have pretty much only experienced what FreeTrack and my 3 point cap can do for me. So far I've been impressed with it.

monkey_slap said:
Have to disagree with you. Real pilot here too. I love having peripheral vision. Its overkill, sure, but then again, if you are running eyefinity you aren't too concerned about money anyways. ;)

I run TrackIR, 5760x1080 and it's awesome. I'm also running off of ONE 6950 just fine. DCS A-10c stays over 40fps, FSX is a wild beast but in the air I have it locked at 30fps, and Wings of Prey never even hiccups.

Try playing with your FoV to fix any distortion. One thing to remember though, is with using TrackIR you should be looking at your center monitor only. Side monitors are for peripheral which does have some natural fisheye effects. You don't see in 2d. That's all that eyefinity is doing.

And if you are ever double questioning spending too much on your rig for flight sims, just find out how much a Private license costs!
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I'm doing the same resolution on the same single card, and I am right there with you on this. While to some it may seem like eyefinity only offers a marginal benefit, or is "useless", I can't even begin to describe how handy it is to maintain my peripheral vision when playing IL-2 or Wings of Prey. Being able to use freetrack to keep my head fixed on a bandit, while still being able to see the the internal cockpit of my plane in order to provide a suitable frame of reference is massively useful.

Of the two, head tracking is definitely the most important, at least when it comes to sims, but yeah, eyefinity only adds to the effect and the usefulness.
 
Ducman69 said:
Yeah, I don't understand why they never made a combat flight simulator based on FSX.

FSX is also long in the tooth and in need of replacement. Came out way back in 06 IIRC, so we need something updated with better multi-core support and DX11 and multiplayer missions.
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I believe Microsoft disbanded the whole flight sim team...
 
Ducman69 said:
Yeah, I don't understand why they never made a combat flight simulator based on FSX.

FSX is also long in the tooth and in need of replacement. Came out way back in 06 IIRC, so we need something updated with better multi-core support and DX11 and multiplayer missions.
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The new Microsoft Flight Simulator is being made now. They shut down the old studio and are revamping it. It's just going to be called Microsoft Flight. http://www.microsoft.com/games/flight/

Edit: ^ Beat me to it.
 
Any of you flight guys or anyone try ARMA and ARMA II based WWII dogfighting stuff? For awhile now I've been wanting to make an ARMA/ARMA II mod that makes it more like 64/128 player WWII Online. The scripting engine is advanced enough to add things like gun mounts in the wings (vs laser beam as you'll see in some of the videos/airplane addons), instrument panel, air brake, flaps, WEP, black/red outs... I just haven't had the time.

Check out and tell me what you think or from your experiences (if any with ARMA/ARMA II):

ARMA I Invasion 1944 BF109 Day (features some CAS)
Arma WW2 Luftwaffe Where Eagles Dare
ArmA 2 31st Normandy Paradrop Intercept
ArmA I Flak
 
monkey_slap said:
I had to do some research to see why it is so bad, but it looks REALLY bad right now...

http://www.lockonfiles.com/index.php/topic/36031-il-2-cliffs-of-dover-review/
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Did everyone forget "IL-2: Sturmovik"? No, I mean, the FIRST "IL-2: Sturmovik", before it was 'Forgotten Battles' or the 'Ace Expansion Pack' or the later updates.

It certainly felt pretty 'incomplete' and 'buggy' compared to the game in its final form ("IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946"). Granted, standards were much lower than, so reviewers could tend to see the possibility, and liked what they DID get, so much was forgiven and it was pretty well received.

But for anyone hardcore into flight sims at the time of release, it wasn't seriously considered a contender...European Air War and Combat Flight Simulator 2 were generally held in better regard.

I'm pretty confident that we will get the same after-release support with this generation (and, yes, multiple must-purchase-to-get-the-latest-patch "add-ons") and it will ultimately be just as amazing. So if you don't feel like going along for that ride AGAIN...then, yeah, wait.

I pre-ordered on Steam, though.
 
dderidex said:
Did everyone forget "IL-2: Sturmovik"? No, I mean, the FIRST "IL-2: Sturmovik", before it was 'Forgotten Battles' or the 'Ace Expansion Pack' or the later updates.

It certainly felt pretty 'incomplete' and 'buggy' compared to the game in its final form ("IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946"). Granted, standards were much lower than, so reviewers could tend to see the possibility, and liked what they DID get, so much was forgiven and it was pretty well received.

But for anyone hardcore into flight sims at the time of release, it wasn't seriously considered a contender...European Air War and Combat Flight Simulator 2 were generally held in better regard.

I'm pretty confident that we will get the same after-release support with this generation (and, yes, multiple must-purchase-to-get-the-latest-patch "add-ons") and it will ultimately be just as amazing. So if you don't feel like going along for that ride AGAIN...then, yeah, wait.

I pre-ordered on Steam, though.
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I'm trusting something similar will happen, though, I can't put my money on it quite yet.
 
IL-2: 1946 is a good game in the series. IL-2 is by far my favorite WWII-based flight sim.
 
I just bought IL-2: 1946 on D2D for $2.50 and I've got a Saitek Aviator on the way. Not as good as the X-52 but I imagine it is on par or better than my ancient Cyborg 3D Gold which is 300+ miles away.



cbig52809051430zoom.jpg


Saitek Aviator should be here by Monday afternoon. Thanks, Amazon Prime. :)
 
The Saitek Aviator is what I use for the WW2 sims, too. Works smashingly!
 
I think Rise of Flight is excellent! I have always been a WW1 combat flight sim fan, Red Baron 3D was a favorite of mine. Played it for years, modded to the hilt.

When Rise of Flight launched I snagged it and although it was light on content the things that really mattered to build a sim on; graphics, flight model, damage model, sound effects, highly detailed planes both in cockpit and outside, fabulous clouds and atmosphere, was over the top. Since then much more content has been released and the game runs and plays great. No question it is among the best combat flight simulators to be had.
 
Poordevil said:
I think Rise of Flight is excellent! I have always been a WW1 combat flight sim fan, Red Baron 3D was a favorite of mine. Played it for years, modded to the hilt.

When Rise of Flight launched I snagged it and although it was light on content the things that really mattered to build a sim on; graphics, flight model, damage model, sound effects, highly detailed planes both in cockpit and outside, fabulous clouds and atmosphere, was over the top. Since then much more content has been released and the game runs and plays great. No question it is among the best combat flight simulators to be had.
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Once I need a change of scenery from DCS A-10c, Rise of Flight will be my next venture. How's the multiplayer?
 
I haven't tried multiplayer, except for one time. I think the multiplayer guys like it, I don't hear much complaints about it. Trying to fly and fight AI is enough for me!
 
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