Any point to SLi anymore?

Discussion in 'nVidia Flavor' started by LstOfTheBrunnenG, Apr 21, 2018.

  1. LstOfTheBrunnenG

    LstOfTheBrunnenG [H]ardness Supreme

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    I bought two 1080 Tis on launch day. I justified it to myself using my assumption that the long-teased 4K 144Hz monitors were coming within months, and would be priced around $1200. This was March; I figured they'd be out by May or June. Now it's April of 2018 and not only are they still not out yet, but the current word is that they will cost more than a good sale on a 65" OLED. That's pretty unacceptable to me.

    If I'm not going 4K any time soon, seems like a waste to have a pair of 1080 Ti sat this point. Most games I play that are GPU limited are VR games, and SLi and VR don't mix. Also, for the first time ever in my 15 years of building PCs, it's possible that I could sell this card for more than I paid for it.

    I'm pretty happy with my 1600p 60Hz 30" monitor at this point, but there's a small chance I might talk myself into a 144Hz upgrade, at a minimum of 1440p. Even then, I don't see much use for SLi. The Ti still kills even newer titles like Far Cry 5 at 1440p. It can't quite maintain a 144fps average, but assuming I get a G-Sync monitor, the experience would still be a net positive, correct?

    Are there any considerations I might be missing?
     
  2. trick0502

    trick0502 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Most dx12 games don’t work with sli/cf. I’d sell now while it’s value is high.
     
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  3. MacLeod

    MacLeod [H]ardness Supreme

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    Agreed. Ti's are still going for nearly $1000 right now and Volta isn't rumored to be out for a couple more months so you should be able to get your money back and a little extra if you sell now.
     
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  4. XoR_

    XoR_ Limp Gawd

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    SLI is terrible because you get increased input lag. That is why it is not recommended for VR.
    It would not be the case if SLI used SFR (Single Frame Rendering) but to get better scaling (basically benchmark results) they concentrated on AFR (Alternate Frame Rendering) and this technique can not end up in having more input lag than single GPU. 100fps with SLI is thus not the same as 100fps with single GPU. And of course with SLI you also get micro stuttering, compatibility issues, need for profiles and other bullshit.

    Original SLI on 3dfx Voodoo 2/5 cards had none of these issues. Rendering was done on single frame so not input lag and worked in pretty much 100% software without any profiles and scaling was actually pretty good. I had Voodoo2 and adding another one was like upgrading to 2x better GPU.

    I did some NV SLI and AMD CrossFire tests and both technologies are total crap.

    Support for SLI/CF fading is a very good thing for consumers.
    On the other hand in few years when ray-tracing gets used in games multi-GPU might make a come back in style as it should be possible to parallelize it over any number of GPU working on single frame.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2018
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  5. Kwaz

    Kwaz Whine & Cheezy

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    No.

    SLI isn't currently viable.
     
  6. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 [H]ard|Gawd

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    You say you primarily game in VR and you're smart enough to realize that the promise of SLI for VR was a completely still-born thing. Sell one while you can still get a pretty penny for it. Then sit tight and wait for the 1180Ti to drop either late this year or early next.
     
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  7. Mega6

    Mega6 Gawd

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    someone mentioned microsutter and they never could fix it so they handed it off to the developers in dx12. so now the developers dont want to do anything. and here i sit with a crapload of lanes, better too many than not enough i guess.
     
  8. Airbrushkid

    Airbrushkid 2[H]4U

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    I run triple monitors so yes sli is still viable. One 1080 ti really with triple monitors is slow.
     
  9. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 [H]ard|Gawd

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    VR has completely eliminated the need for more than one monitor when it comes to gaming (at least for me). No multi-monitor setup can compete with the full gaming immersion VR brings with it. Now for productivity apps/coding/etc. I can still see the need, but for those, a single 1080Ti will easily suffice.
     
  10. Airbrushkid

    Airbrushkid 2[H]4U

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    Not everyone has VR!
     
  11. LstOfTheBrunnenG

    LstOfTheBrunnenG [H]ardness Supreme

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    Do you mean a single is insufficient for desktop use, or that you're doing the Eyefinity/Surround thing? What resolution are your monitors, if so?
     
  12. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Never said that everyone did. Just an observation that If you can afford triple monitors and two 1080Ti's, then you can easily afford a ~$400 VR setup. Most gamers also don't have SLI with triple monitor setups. Those that do are living in the past and haven't realized what VR does for the surround gaming experience.
     
  13. Tup3x

    Tup3x [H]ard|Gawd

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    I had SLI GTX 680 and it wasn't viable even back then. Just too many downsides.
     
  14. Furious_Styles

    Furious_Styles Gawd

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    Depends on what you play OP. If it's just SP stuff like FC5 or RPGs you can just wait until that 4k/144hz comes out which is supposed to be in the next 1-2 months. I would have sold that extra 1080 ti a while ago since one is more than enough for 60hz.
     
  15. LstOfTheBrunnenG

    LstOfTheBrunnenG [H]ardness Supreme

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    To be completely fair, I wouldn't try to play most games that aren't designed for VR in VR. So the idea that a HMD could replace a triple-monitor setup for an avid CS:GO player is pretty dubious to me.
     
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  16. Gorankar

    Gorankar [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Don't get me wrong, I love playing games in VR, and I believe it is the future of gaming. However, my lap times are still better using triple monitors for racing games over VR. Triple monitor is still better for FPS games as well. Wide FOV is quite advantageous. VR is not a replacement for multi monitors in all gaming scenarios. At least not with the current crop of HMDs.
     
  17. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yeah people say it's dead.... But the internet is really good at thinking for you sigh... More and more devs are starting to include it again via DX12 at least according to hear say. Again not trying to let the internet think for me.

    Far cry 5 uses it and it's liquid smooth with no stutter. They fully support it. Of course dx11 so it's actual SLI support. With it in able to run Far cry 5 at 3440x1440 Ultra at avg of 90fps without it I drop to 50 60ish fps. I have two Asus Poseidon on water 1080ti.
     
  18. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well they didn't have High Bandwidth bridge and the tech has evolved slot since. For many players it's not viable today because the massive bulk of gamers don't even know what 1440p or 4k even means and their mammy and pappy buy their computers for them.

    Everyone I find a reason to sell my 2nd 1080ti I find a reason to keep it.
     
  19. Airbrushkid

    Airbrushkid 2[H]4U

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    Living past I don't think so. When today you can buy 2 GTX 1080ti's and run them in SLI and use triple monitors. Look how many games came out last year and how many this year that don't support VR. So the games that don't support VR out number the games that do!
     
  20. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Your argument is non sequitur. I'll grant you there are some games that use and support SLI, but that list isn't all that long and by far most games do not. I also predict that multi-monitor setups *for gaming* are starting to go the way of the dodo... and will even faster once the next gen of VR hits. Hell, this gen's VR tech was good enough to sway me from considering a multi-monitor setup for gaming. VR is an entirely new animal when it comes to gaming and the gaming experience it brings to the table is nothing like comparing single vs. multi monitor setups. Not knocking those that have multi-monitor setups, that was pretty much the only way to go a few years back for a max gaming experience, but going forward... not so much anymore.
     
  21. Airbrushkid

    Airbrushkid 2[H]4U

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    Look at how many VR sets that have been sold. maybe a couple hundred thousand! Not much. compare to the number of pc gamers. Good for you that you like VR. But there are a lot of gamers that won't just because they can't afford it. Look at the number of gamers still using 1080p!!
     
  22. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Just stop. You're spewing random statements with no cohesive point to your argument anymore. Of course there aren't that many VR sets out there yet - it's only been out for a couple of years now since gen 1 hit and VR tech is still maturing. Sony has sold a little over 2 million VR sets for its PS4 and the Vive/Rift sales combined are easily sitting close to a million units. (Well over 200K Rifts were sold in 3rd quarter last year alone!) But I was comparing a SLI setup with multiple monitors for gaming to a VR setup - not VR vs. 1080p gamers. A VR setup is a hell of a lot cheaper than the cash you dumped into three monitors and two 1080Ti's. I get it that you are happy with the multi-monitor setup and I'm not advocating that all gamers are switching to VR, but I'm pretty convinced that ~5 years from now, VR will become a very sizable chunk of the overall PC gaming market. Nvidia seems to think so as well: https://uploadvr.com/nvidia-predicts-50-million-vr-headsets-sold-2021/

    The OP was asking if selling a 2nd 1080Ti right now since he/she isn't running multiple monitors, isn't running beyond 1600p, and mostly VR games. The consensus was that hell yes, definitely cash in on the crazy GPU price market now, off-loading one of the 1080Ti's. Then look into upgrading once the next gen Ti card hits.
     
  23. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    Absent 4k at 120Hz+ (or some hardcore surround), it's hard to recommend that the OP keep 1080TI SLI. Not that it doesn't work, because it absolutely does, or because game developers aren't supporting it as it's being patched into all mainstream engines, but because the current crop of games don't challenge one 1080Ti enough and the OP will very likely be able to pay for their next upgrade with the sale.

    With respect to multi-GPU going forward: I do hope that the GPU vendors are turning an eye toward making it useful for VR. It would be nice to have two GPUs synced up to do each eye, for example.
     
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  24. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Millions of VR sets have sold are you kidding me?

    This is last year. Numbers are even larger this year....

    https://venturebeat.com/2017/05/09/vive-outsells-rift-but-mobile-and-console-vr-outsell-both/
     
  25. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I fully agree that the FOV and resolution needs aren't quite there yet with Gen 1 VR for the hardcore SIM racing crowd. Looking forward to Gen 2 hardware in a couple years, and I bet VR will close that gap and become a viable alternative for that crowd as to multiple monitor rig setups then as well... For the casual gamer, VR already is a pretty strong alternative option to investing in SLI and multiple monitors.
     
  26. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Just to help you get your numbers more in line with reality: https://www.statista.com/statistics/671403/global-virtual-reality-device-shipments-by-vendor/
     
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  27. XoR_

    XoR_ Limp Gawd

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    These high bandwidth bridges do not alleviate need to render two frames at once and so SLI still add input lag.

    I am happy SLI is dying. It was nice idea but implementation went the wrong way, it is like tumor in gaming word.
     
  28. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    A tumor is something you get involuntarily against your will.

    No one made or makes you buy SLI. It's purely a choice. It hasn't affected anyone's ability to game by not having it.

    How in the hell is SLI a tumor?
     
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  29. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    My backup system has 2 x 980 Ti's in SLI and it destroys anything I throw at it. Not sure what everyone here is talking about.

    There are a ton if SLI videos on youtube that say otherwise to this thread.
     
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  30. XoR_

    XoR_ Limp Gawd

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    SLI development took a lot of resources that could be used for different purposes. It greatly increase complexity of drivers and need to be tested and compatibility maintained with each driver release.
    Motherboard manufacturers need SLI certificate. Who do you think pays for this kind of certificates?

    And SLI doesn't even work as advertised for end user. Many people are unaware of its issues and others ignore it. You can be ignorant to input lag issues as you wish but it still does affect you and is stupid badly executed idea.

    If SLI used SFR-only and had lower scaling like 40% I would recommend you to use it because then benchmark scores would be at least meaningful.
     
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  31. XoR_

    XoR_ Limp Gawd

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    Being ignorant of issues doesn't mean they do not affect you.
     
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  32. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardness Supreme

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    Fine then you tell him what his issues are.
     
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  33. XoR_

    XoR_ Limp Gawd

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    I alredy did

    When someone does not want to listen it does not matter how many times he explanations are said

    Quite a lot people downplay input lag. That is why any technology or product that increases it should die for their own benefit.
     
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  34. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardness Supreme

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    Then you must provide evidence to support your claim.

    Can you post something that isn't conjecture?
     
  35. sk3tch

    sk3tch [H]ard|Gawd

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    Former big-time SLI guy here - no more. In fact, debated slanging my 1080 Ti Lightning to pick up a Titan V...you are in even better shape to do that. Get around $2k for those Tis and get a beast single card.

    So much smoother, less issues, and a card that actually does stuff. Instead of getting a 2nd card I upgrade my son's PC so I have two boxes that have GPUs that get used.
     
  36. Armpit

    Armpit Gawd

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    That's what I'm thinking of doing, ditching my dual 1080Ti's for 1 Titan V. But I think I may want to wait to see what's next from Nvidia for their gaming hardware, but then the 1080Tis will probably drop in value...
     
  37. XoR_

    XoR_ Limp Gawd

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    http://developer.download.nvidia.com/whitepapers/2011/SLI_Best_Practices_2011_Feb.pdf
    According to NV 'SLI do not add input lag' meaning you won't get more input lag adding another GPU while having perfect scaling of 100%... which is what I would expect perfect implementation of AFR would behave.
    Nothing better than this can be achieved!

    And this means system A with SLI that have 100fps in game will have one frame (10ms in this case) input lag than system B with more powerful GPU that also pushes 100fps but with single GPU <- making benchmark scores of SLI to not represent actual benefit of higher frame-rates.
    And because of scaling is not 100% in most cases you do get increased input lag after enabling SLI (if game use AFR and most new games do)

    perfrel_3840_2160.png
    This looks pathetic: https://babeltechreviews.com/gtx-1080-ti-sli-performance-25-games/3/

    Totally worth paying twice for GPU and using more power hand having louder system with higher temperatures :hungover:
     
  38. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardness Supreme

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    it says input latency is lowered on systems that are scaling 100 percent meaning that 30ms latency is halved to 15 because each card alternates drawing.

    it also says input lag is the same on both 1 and 2 gpu systems
     
  39. XoR_

    XoR_ Limp Gawd

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    One additional detail worth noting is that while input latency is the same on SLI AFR configurations as it is on single GPU configurations (each frame will take as long to be complete)

    Inter-frame latency is of no interest as it is just the same as saying frame-rate is higher.
    What matters for responsiveness is input lag.

    EDIT://
    you did mention it, sorry for glowing green colors then :p
    but that is what I am trying to communicate all the time
    you get more latency as a result because this not adding input lag only cover case of 100% scaling which is not what benchmarks measure

    faster GPU will have lower input lag latency still but obviously NV won't mention THIS in such paper :ROFLMAO:
     
  40. blert

    blert Gawd

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    I too own 1080 ti SLI

    In games that support it I activate SLI

    For those that do not I disable

    For ME the expense it worth it even though many games are now being released without SLI support. In fact most of the games I play run fully maxed out on a single 1080Ti at 3440x1440 @ 100 refresh rate

    And I like having the option for more eye candy if the game supports it. If it doesn't I don't give it another thought