Android Based Video Game Console Kickstarter

[nOrVow]

do you mean in the same way that debian/fedora/gentoo are also not linux? I'm not being sarcastic, i'm just claryfing.

Debian/Fedora/Gentoo are all distributions of the same OS (GNU/Linux). A distribution is just a collection of packages, basically. The only difference is, is their philosophy, package manager, and maybe a few apps. Userland tools, xorg, shells, utilities, etc are mostly (if not, all) the same.

Think of "GNU/Linux" as a tree trunk, while distributions are the many many branches sprouted from it. Or an ice cream cone, with various flavors of ice cream stacked on top of it.

So with Android (semantically speaking), it's really Android/Linux (w/o the PR n shit).

 

[nOrVow]

actually, i take that ice cream cone analogy back. lol that one's way off.

 

[Dr. Righteous]

do you mean in the same way that debian/fedora/gentoo are also not linux? I'm not being sarcastic, i'm just claryfing.

My point was Android was an embedded version that has more than penetrated the main stream. Never said it was based on any desktop linux distro.
But for those who say linux is for geeks only; what's in your pocket?

 

[JoeUser]

you do realize that that money is people paying for the product and not just free money, correct? They can't just add specs or they'll go bankrupt because the cost of the device will cost more than what they sold it for. I really, really hate people that talk out of their ass.

OK...so sell what they've already promised for the standard $100 and increase every one after for $10 more...hardly makes a difference and even at $109.99 its still a better deal and faster than any other set top device out there.

Or they could keep the same storage space and add a SD slot for the 2 cents it would cost per unit and up the RAM to 2GB and eat the difference.

 

[serpretetsky]

Debian/Fedora/Gentoo are all distributions of the same OS (GNU/Linux). A distribution is just a collection of packages, basically. The only difference is, is their philosophy, package manager, and maybe a few apps. Userland tools, xorg, shells, utilities, etc are mostly (if not, all) the same.

Think of "GNU/Linux" as a tree trunk, while distributions are the many many branches sprouted from it. Or an ice cream cone, with various flavors of ice cream stacked on top of it.

So with Android (semantically speaking), it's really Android/Linux (w/o the PR n shit).

yeah, i can see what you are saying.
I still think this original quote didn't make much sense

Ehh....I would say that Android is Linux in about the same capacity as OSX is Unix. Maybe slightly moreso, but have someone use Linux and then use Android and see how similar they think they are.

The first sentence is a pretty good analogy. However, the second part doesn't make sense. When you are using Android you ARE using linux, just like when you are using Mac OSX you are using the Darwin Unix OS. Perhaps the poster meant comparing a terminal shell to using android. Or maybe he had a specific distrobution of linux/GNU in mind. I'm not really sure.

 

[serpretetsky]

My point was Android was an embedded version that has more than penetrated the main stream. Never said it was based on any desktop linux distro.
But for those who say linux is for geeks only; what's in your pocket?

yeah, you're right. I never disagreed with you.

 

[MavericK]

The first sentence is a pretty good analogy. However, the second part doesn't make sense. When you are using Android you ARE using linux, just like when you are using Mac OSX you are using the Darwin Unix OS. Perhaps the poster meant comparing a terminal shell to using android. Or maybe he had a specific distrobution of linux/GNU in mind. I'm not really sure.

Yeah, maybe the wording was confusing, but my point was that Android is basically just a shell over the top of the Linux kernel. The guy I quoted was making it sound like because this console is using Android that all of a sudden Linux was going to be mainstream and "cool" or something. I think that's a poor statement to make because there's a huge difference between desktop iterations of Linux and Android.

Plus, he was acting as if Android didn't already lead the smartphone market, like Linux was some obscure thing before this console...?

Maybe the guy I quoted is the one who needs to clarify, lol.

 

[MavericK]

My point was Android was an embedded version that has more than penetrated the main stream. Never said it was based on any desktop linux distro.
But for those who say linux is for geeks only; what's in your pocket?

Okay, well, the people who say that are 99.99% referring to desktop Linux, soo...Still not really understanding your point, since everyone already knows Android is popular.

 

[nOrVow]

yeah, i can see what you are saying.
I still think this original quote didn't make much sense

The first sentence is a pretty good analogy. However, the second part doesn't make sense. When you are using Android you ARE using linux, just like when you are using Mac OSX you are using the Darwin Unix OS. Perhaps the poster meant comparing a terminal shell to using android. Or maybe he had a specific distrobution of linux/GNU in mind. I'm not really sure.

Well of course you're using Linux when using Android. But "Android" is not "Linux" from an OS engineering perspective. The underpinnings aren't unified (marketing says they are), which is why I'm speaking semantically. Otherwise, there would be some licensing issues. The older PlayStation 3s uses the Linux kernel for OtherOS support, but it still isn't "Linux". It is it's own portable entity.

You can't compare Android to Mac OS X, as Mac OS X is a true UNIX (and certified) operating system that isn't segmented like Android is.

 

[nOrVow]

edit: to put things in perspective. CyanogenMod is a fork of Android/Linux (Android).

 

[bcrisp82]

cheap XBOX knockoff running android with a Metro style UI ? count me out.

 

[Red Falcon]

Ehh....I would say that Android is Linux in about the same capacity as OSX is Unix.

Um, hate to break it to you, but Android OS actually is Linux, and OS X since 10.5 has been UNIX-03 certified, i.e. it is true UNIX and FreeBSD-based.

Maybe slightly moreso, but have someone use Linux and then use Android and see how similar they think they are.

I have used both, and underneith the GUI, Android is Linux, plain and simple, not sure what you're on about.
Linux has no native GUI, so anyone can put whatever GUI they want on top of it, whether it be a desktop GUI or a phone-interface GUI; in the end, it's still Linux.

Do you even know what you are talking about?
Doesn't really sound like it.

 

[Red Falcon]

Android is not Linux, it's just a Java based user-land actually. Android uses the Linux kernel but it is not "GNU/Linux", which is laymen for Linux. "GNU" encompasses all of the user-land tools (ie. bash) and glibc. Yes, just using "Linux" when referring to the Desktop OS is politically incorrect but it's easier to say it (Stallman can kiss my ass about semantics), and it sounds better too. Linus doesn't like calling his kernel "GNU/Linux" either. They've fought over that a few times.

You just contradicted yourself by saying "Android is not Linux" and "Android uses the Linux kernel".

All Linux is is a kernel that individuals can build upon.
Android OS is a true Linux, down to the very bone, so to speak.

Yes, just using "Linux" when referring to the Desktop OS is politically incorrect but it's easier to say it

It's easier, but incorrect, as Linux is used in everything from one's phone, HDTV, desktops, supercomputers, and even many peripherals like NAS devices.

 

[Red Falcon]

You can't compare Android to Mac OS X, as Mac OS X is a true UNIX (and certified) operating system that isn't segmented like Android is.

What..!? I just said that, wait... aw.
Damn it, I need to finish reading through the thread before I post.

 

[nOrVow]

You just contradicted yourself by saying "Android is not Linux" and "Android uses the Linux kernel".

All Linux is is a kernel that individuals can build upon.
Android OS is a true Linux, down to the very bone, so to speak.


It's easier, but incorrect, as Linux is used in everything from one's phone, HDTV, desktops, supercomputers, and even many peripherals like NAS devices.

Lol huh? With that logic you might as well call everything that uses Linux a fork of Linux, or that Ubuntu and Gentoo are both completely different operating systems. A modified version of the Linux kernel suited to a specific task or purpose doesn't constitute as a fork. The kernel their using on which they base their own userland is still Linux, but their packaged entity (Userland + Linux) is not "Linux". Just like GNU/Linux is not "Linux" (the kernel itself) but is it represented as such for lay masses through marketing, so I don't see how what I've said is a contradiction. "Astro"(pre-released Android) is a java based userland package, which is it isn't own segmented part - just like "GNU" is.

Still don't agree? Listen to the person who maintains stable releases of the Linux kernel - Greg Kroah Hartman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6RcQ4H0lKg&feature=relmfu

Why do you think Richard Stallman gets so pissed off and bitchy when people refer to "GNU/Linux" as Linux? it's politically incorrect. If Linus Torvalds were to create his own userland tools and embed them with his own made kernel, then it would be a "true" "Linux" OS. But there isn't no "true" "Linux" OS. Just Android/Linux (lay Android), and GNU/Linux (lay Linux).

 

[nOrVow]

edit: is it's own*

 

[djgizmo]

Sigh, why all the infighting. Makes me wonder why people even still post here.

They're already at 3.5 mil in less than 2 days. This is going to be a cool indy platform IF they can get past all the patent issues.

I've seen that controller before on an old defunt platform. The controller reminds me of an old virtual boy controller crossed with a classic Xbox controller.

 

[nOrVow]

Software politics are a bitch in the Unix world. Lol I don't care too deeply about it though. You can blame the hippie software engineers!!

 

[Red Falcon]

The kernel their using on which they base their own userland is still Linux, but their packaged entity (Userland + Linux) is not "Linux".

Why do you think Richard Stallman gets so pissed off and bitchy when people refer to "GNU/Linux" as Linux? it's politically incorrect. If Linus Torvalds were to create his own userland tools and embed them with his own made kernel, then it would be a "true" "Linux" OS. But there isn't no "true" "Linux" OS. Just Android/Linux (lay Android), and GNU/Linux (lay Linux).

Ah, that makes more sense on what you were saying earlier about "politically incorrect".
I stand corrected.

 

[Red Falcon]

Software politics are a bitch in the Unix world. Lol I don't care too deeply about it though. You can blame the hippie software engineers!!

Oh, you meant the branch of Linux Weed.

 

[nOrVow]

Ah, that makes more sense on what you were saying earlier about "politically incorrect".
I stand corrected.

Yeah, it's been a damn controversy for a while. On the flip side, Richard wanted Linus to call his kernel GNU/Linux, and he basically said "fuck you". lol With all due respect for his work, Richard can kiss my ass - I'm still calling it Linux. lol Don't give a rats ass, it's easier/sounds better.

Oh, you meant the branch of Linux Weed.

JA MAN! HAHA!

 

[BladeVenom]

They're already at 3.5 mil in less than 2 days. This is going to be a cool indy platform IF they can get past all the patent issues.

I'm just waiting for Apple to claim they invented consoles. Worse some ignorant judge will believe them.

 

[SkribbelKat]

I'm just waiting for Apple to claim they invented consoles. Worse some ignorant judge will believe them.

Well, they do have Apple TV which is a box that connects to your television. If someone else tries to connect a box to a television, that might be lawsuit worthy.

 

[GoldenTiger]

OK...so sell what they've already promised for the standard $100 and increase every one after for $10 more...hardly makes a difference and even at $109.99 its still a better deal and faster than any other set top device out there.

Or they could keep the same storage space and add a SD slot for the 2 cents it would cost per unit and up the RAM to 2GB and eat the difference.

They have said it will support usb storage devices with the usb port.

 

[JoeUser]

If the controller is nice I wonder if it'll work on PC...always looking for a nice controller but most are either uncomfortable or have crap hardware.

 

[Sly]

Well of course you're using Linux when using Android. But "Android" is not "Linux" from an OS engineering perspective. The underpinnings aren't unified (marketing says they are), which is why I'm speaking semantically. Otherwise, there would be some licensing issues. The older PlayStation 3s uses the Linux kernel for OtherOS support, but it still isn't "Linux". It is it's own portable entity.

You can't compare Android to Mac OS X, as Mac OS X is a true UNIX (and certified) operating system that isn't segmented like Android is.

Curiously, can you consider Android Apps to be Linux applications?

 

[Staples]

If this ever comes out, it will be one of those boxes you see in hotel rooms.

Remember the Phantom?

 

[FLECOM]

I don't even care about the gaming potential. It looks like it would be a sweet media playback/emulation dedicated box.

Yep I picked one up for this reason, been about getting a WDTV or similar device eventually, this could fill its roll and play NES/SNES/Sega games too? I'm in

 

[goodcooper]

Yeah, it's been a damn controversy for a while. On the flip side, Richard wanted Linus to call his kernel GNU/Linux, and he basically said "fuck you". lol With all due respect for his work, Richard can kiss my ass - I'm still calling it Linux. lol Don't give a rats ass, it's easier/sounds better.



JA MAN! HAHA!

yea, maybe richard can release gnu kernel.... he may think linux would be nothing without gnu, but the real truth of the matter is, gnu would be nothing without linux...

 

[goodcooper]

lol hurd has been in development since 1990 and will never take off... pprobably why he's so bitter

 

[Ashbringer]

Even running Tegra 4 it would still be slower...not to mention the fact that they are already working on the design most likely using hardware that's already out.

You're thinking of using existing ARM chips. Microsoft employee IBM to make a custom 360 chip, and they'll likely do the same with ARM. Something like a 3Ghz 8 core ARM chip would be very competitive.

 

[Sly]

You're thinking of using existing ARM chips. Microsoft employee IBM to make a custom 360 chip, and they'll likely do the same with ARM. Something like a 3Ghz 8 core ARM chip would be very competitive.

Will 4 million be enough to commission someone to R&D custom CPU/GPUs?

 

[MavericK]

Will 4 million be enough to commission someone to R&D custom CPU/GPUs?

With people "pre-ordering" these for $100 a pop? Fuck no.

I think the point of this is that it uses existing chips, so I don't think we're going to see any kind of custom CPU/GPU.

 

[nOrVow]

yea, maybe richard can release gnu kernel.... he may think linux would be nothing without gnu, but the real truth of the matter is, gnu would be nothing without linux...

I agree. It seems to me that the kernel is the most important (and hardest) aspect of the OS despite the total percentage is encompasses. Linux even has a lot of corporate backing due to it's kernel, and making your own userland space wouldn't be hard for these guys either given their man dev size. Since we have LLVM/Clang now, we can just use that as an alternative, if in need, for a compiler tool-chain - which is better than GCC in fact.

lol hurd has been in development since 1990 and will never take off... pprobably why he's so bitter

He used to be so hot about this, it's complete shit. Even Minix still hasn't taken off. lol Time has shown which of GNU/Linux is the more important part of two.



But anyways, back on topic. Does anyone know how Tegra 4 will pale in comparison to 3? There's like 4 up-coming releases according to teh wiki.

 

[defaultluser]

Time has shown which of GNU/Linux is the more important part of two.

Yeah, that would be GNU. From the words of Linus himself:

Sadly, a kernel by itself gets you nowhere. To get a working system you need a shell, compilers, a library etc. These are separate parts and may be under a stricter (or even looser) copyright. Most of the tools used with linux are GNU software and are under the GNU copyleft. These tools aren't in the distribution - ask me (or GNU) for more info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Linux#Linux_under_the_GNU_GPL

The kernel is a very small part of what it takes to make a usable operating system. When Linus put together the Linux kernel with GNU GCC and Bash and other utilities/libraries, he was standing on the shoulders of giants. Without the contribution of GNU, the kernel would have been useless (and that still holds true today).

Kernel /= OS. One is more usable than the other. On this I agree with the Stallman camp: the OS name should give equal credit to GNU.

However, I'm not going to be an ass about it and correct people - the world decided otherwise.

 

[nOrVow]

Yeah, that would be GNU. From the words of Linus himself:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Linux#Linux_under_the_GNU_GPL

The kernel is a very small part of what it takes to make a usable operating system. When Linus put together the Linux kernel with GNU GCC and Bash and other utilities/libraries, he was standing on the shoulders of giants. Without the contribution of GNU, the kernel would have been useless (and that still holds true today).

Kernel /= OS. One is more usable than the other. On this I agree with the Stallman camp: the OS name should give equal credit to GNU.

However, I'm not going to be an ass about it and correct people - the world decided otherwise.

Yes, the kernel itself gets you nowhere, just as having only a working user-land get's you no where either.

Linus could've easily used the available BSD tool-chain and user-land at his disposable, and it wouldn't have made a difference - he would still be able to make his kernel for him. So that argument is moot. He simply chose to tack the GPL on there for more pragmatic reasons without getting jipped. Linus' decision and work is just as important as GNUs contributions. Why hasn't Stallman left Linux in exchange for HURD then? Since Linux is the more trivial part of the package, I'm sure GNU would still have the same success as today, presumably? Also, you can't just single out GNU, you have to also thank MIT for x.org.

I know "kernel =/ OS", but GNU isn't a full OS either. It's just a working userland, it couldn't utilize hardware for serious tasks. Richard believes that "Linux" should be called a variant of GNU because Linus uses it's tools and compiler and believe that "Linux" (the kernel) should also be called "GNU/Linux", but GNU had nothing to do with Linux development and Linus start the kernel himself. So that's completely unfair bullshit on Stallmans part. Linux is Linux. And the world sees Linux (and his pragmatism) as the more vital part of the package.

I agree that GNU deserves recognition, and has gotten that. I appreciate and respect his work and what he's done for software, but Stallmans extremist ideals don't really help anymore, and have gave a lot of people (including Linus) a very repulsive taste in the open source community. GNU isn't the center of open source, and the idea of (and usage) open source has been around way before Richard and GNU. MIT and BSD licenses were also released around the same time as GPL and are just as "free".

Disregarding all bias', they both deserve equal credit, but the world has already decided which is more important.

 

[nOrVow]

edit: anyone*

 

[SockMan!]

Hopefully the developers know at what point they're in over their heads. At this rate the Ouya kickstarter looks like it will surpass the Pebble watch - which would've been even larger if the rewards weren't "sold out" near the end.

There is such a thing as being too successful.

 

[serpretetsky]

I know "kernel =/ OS", but GNU isn't a full OS either. It's just a working userland, it couldn't utilize hardware for serious tasks. Richard believes that "Linux" should be called a variant of GNU because Linus uses it's tools and compiler and believe that "Linux" (the kernel) should also be called "GNU/Linux", but GNU had nothing to do with Linux development and Linus start the kernel himself. So that's completely unfair bullshit on Stallmans part. Linux is Linux. And the world sees Linux (and his pragmatism) as the more vital part of the package.

I really don't think any of the GNU team thinks the linux kernel should be called GNU/linux.

here's a little snippet from GNU talking about android
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/android-and-users-freedom.html

they openly admit android uses the linux kernel, they also openly admit it has almost nothing to do with GNU.

I

 

[nOrVow]

I really don't think any of the GNU team thinks the linux kernel should be called GNU/linux.

here's a little snippet from GNU talking about android
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/android-and-users-freedom.html

they openly admit android uses the linux kernel, they also openly admit it has almost nothing to do with GNU.

I

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU

The FSF maintains that Linux, when used with GNU tools and utilities, should be considered a variant of GNU, and promotes the term GNU/Linux for such systems, (leading to the GNU/Linux naming controversy).

http://marianoblejman.com/joomla/in...perating-system&catid=34:tecnologia&Itemid=54

I'm not sure what the article means by "systems", but yeah.

--Why do you think increasingly not-using the "name" Gnu, when talking about Linux?
--I've never used the name GNU. Linux has never been a FSF project, and the FSF never had anything to do with it. Most of the tools aren't GNU tools either, although the GNU C compiler was (and is) a big deal. So the term "GNU/Linux" never made any sense. That said, I also never felt that people couldn't call it anything they wanted. Most of the distributions give the system their own name: Fedora, SuSE, Ubuntu, Android, Mandriva, the list goes on. So if the FSF wants to call it GNU/Linux, why should I care? It makes no more sense than calling it after a kind of head-wear, after all

Note that Linus didn't decide to create his kernel for GNU and Stallman. He created his own kernel because he wanted to have his own operating system at home for himself when he was still in Finland. The two just took their own projects and merged them to benefit their own needs and interests.