Anand re-examines Conroe benchmarks

my comrads eh? i guess it really is that obvious :p too bad i don't really agree ;)

i guess we'll see what happens once fab36 ramps up for good.
 
duby229 said:
Seems you dont follow history very well....

AMD had transitioned to 130nm while still in production with 180nm chips, they did the same thing again when they transitioned to 90nm..... ALL on fab30


Seems you dont know jack about process technology either.... The comparison you are trying ot make... doesnt make any bit of sense.....
Click to expand...

savantu said:
A 65nm FAB capable that makes 90nm is a 90nm FAB.You can't produce both 65 and 90nm chips at the same time on the same production line.
Click to expand...

Which part of the above is too difficult for you to understand ? A tool that produces 180nm cpus won't produce 130nm cpus at the same time no matter what you do to it.

You can have different process sizes in a FAB by having different production lines , which is something totally different from what visaris@idiot implied and you quickly jumped to defend him.

As to AMD getting top fab of the year ... when did it happen ?

Btw , nothing compares with Intel's FAB D1D...Always the first to new developments.
 
Which part of the above is too difficult for you to understand ? A tool that produces 180nm cpus won't produce 130nm cpus at the same time no matter what you do to it.
Click to expand...

What dont you get? The tools used are not important. The facilility is what is important. If the facility cant meet the requirement of a process, then i6t wont work, If it can, then it will.... That is pretty simple concept... You dont seem to get it it.

You can have different process sizes in a FAB by having different production lines , which is something totally different from what visaris@idiot implied and you quickly jumped to defend him.
Click to expand...

Once again childish uninformed remarks... Where do you get off calling someone an idiot? I dont know visaris personaly, but I've read a few of his posts on this forum, and he appears to be a knowledgable person, with clear informed posts.... If you want to cut someone down, then maybe you should read the rules of the forum again!!

And again, no it IS NOT differant, becouse once again for the ininformed (aka for those that refuse to do a google search) it is the facility that matters. The tools are something that makes the process work, but the facility is what makes the tools work, and is the most important part of fabrication. If the facility doesnt meet the requirements of the tools, then the tools wont work... Get? It is pretty simple actually.... And if you'd stop posting garbage and get out onthe net nad do a little research you'd see that... BUT seeing as how you know it all and nobody else could possibly be right.....

only won it once.. but it did win it.
Click to expand...

Actually AMD got the award several other times.... I dont know if it was by the same company tho... What I'm remembering may have been from some other company.. I dont know. I did a google search an wasnt able to find it again... So I guess I could just be wrong.
 
Ya you should read the forum rules again . In a intel forum Intel fans are allowed to rape AMD products. It does not work the other way around AMD fan can't come into an intel forum and Troll and flame as has been whats going on.. In an Intel forum If you upset the Intel fans you are upsetting the balance and the fabric of the design of having seperate AMD and Intel Cpu forums. You come into a Intel forum a label those who are loyal to intel products because of stability Fan boys ! DA! When infact you are trolling and flaming.
 
You come into a Intel forum a label those who are loyal to intel products because of stability Fan boys ! DA! When infact you are trolling and flaming.
Click to expand...

I never called anyone a !!!!!!. I never said anything that was inapropriate. The only thing I did was state facts.. Verifiable facts...

In return I get name calling and ignorance.... Who's the troll?
 
duby229 said:
I never called anyone a !!!!!!. I never said anything that was inapropriate. The only thing I did was state facts.. Verifiable facts...

In return I get name calling and ignorance.... Who's the troll?
Click to expand...


Indeed... these people just can't handle facts instead of emotional passion.
 
$BangforThe$ said:
Ya you should read the forum rules again . In a intel forum Intel fans are allowed to rape AMD products. It does not work the other way around AMD fan can't come into an intel forum and Troll and flame as has been whats going on.. In an Intel forum If you upset the Intel fans you are upsetting the balance and the fabric of the design of having seperate AMD and Intel Cpu forums. You come into a Intel forum a label those who are loyal to intel products because of stability Fan boys ! DA! When infact you are trolling and flaming.
Click to expand...

So you're basically stating that facts go out the window in the intel forum? And that if you dispute this misinformation you're trolling? lol.
 
duby229 said:
I never called anyone a !!!!!!. I never said anything that was inapropriate. The only thing I did was state facts.. Verifiable facts...

In return I get name calling and ignorance.... Who's the troll?
Click to expand...

What facts?
 
Google my friend.... It's called the information super highway for a good reason.
 
Donnie27 said:
What facts?
Click to expand...

read Audio pronunciation of "read" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rd)
v. read, (rd) read·ing, reads
v. tr.

1. To examine and grasp the meaning of (written or printed characters, words, or sentences).
2. To utter or render aloud (written or printed material): read poems to the students.
3. To have the ability to examine and grasp the meaning of (written or printed material in a given language or notation)
Click to expand...

;) :p
 
*blink blink* Well, anyway... Ignoring for a moment the nonsense being spewed by those posts above... Here's a question. Does anyone actually know what intel's success rate is for making these chips? Yes, it's a process shrink. Yes, everytime intel or amd completes a process shrink there's usually issues to deal with. Conroe could be a very different monkey if they only get 20-40% success rate on the dies, which will drive the price up. 4 meg cache = lots of chances for errors. The cache is getting to be considerably larger than the actual cores now. Maybe it's time for an external L3 cache to be re-introduced? Video cards are using 64meg chips that run at nearly 2GHz... that seems pretty reasonable for a large L3 cache.
 
Logan321 what your talkin about is yeilds. Intel hasnt started the rampup for Conroe yet, so its doubtful that even Intel knows what the yeilds will be.

But I will say this, nobody, and I mean not even a single person yet mentioned power consumption. Nobody has, so I could take a guess and say that the chips they are making now in the research labs are not yeilding well....

Usually lab yeilds are better than fab yeilds, so it's doubtful that it will be good....
 
sabrewolf732 said:
;) :p
Click to expand...

read Audio pronunciation of "read" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rd)
v. read, (rd) read·ing, reads
v. tr.

1. To examine and grasp the meaning of (written or printed characters, words, or sentences).
2. To utter or render aloud (written or printed material): read poems to the students.
3. To have the ability to examine and grasp the meaning of (written or printed material in a given language or notation)
Click to expand...

Sure, you can't fully take your own advice? There were nothing but opinions posted by the person I asked they questions to, not you. So you can't do what the quoted box expresses LOL! Please hobble your little Troll self back under the AMD green bridge on the AMD side of the forum from which you came;)

If you can't provide anything useful, then please don't try to start crap with your BS?
 
Sure, you can't fully take your own advice? There were nothing but opinions posted by the person I asked they questions to, not you. So you can't do what the quoted box expresses LOL! Please hobble your little Troll self back under the AMD green bridge on the AMD side of the forum from which you came

If you can't provide anything useful, then please don't try to start crap with your BS?
Click to expand...

See there it is again. More name calling and ignorance.

If you cant be called out for your own misinformation, then who is really the troll?
 
Donnie27 said:
Sure, you can't fully take your own advice? There were nothing but opinions posted by the person I asked they questions to, not you. So you can't do what the quoted box expresses LOL! Please hobble your little Troll self back under the AMD green bridge on the AMD side of the forum from which you came;)

If you can't provide anything useful, then please don't try to start crap with your BS?
Click to expand...

Oh really?

http://www.dbanks.demon.co.uk/ueng/minfeat.html said:
Originally Posted by http://www.dbanks.demon.co.uk/ueng/minfeat.html
The minimum feature size is the width of the smallest line or gap that appears in your design.
Click to expand...

ttp://www.facsnet.org/tools/sci_tech/tech/fundaments/scale2.php3 said:
Chips are generally categorized by their "minimum feature size" -- the dimension of the smallest feature actually constructed in the manufacturing process.
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/90_nanometer
The 90 nanometer process refers to the average feature size. However, the minimum feature size on 90 nanometer chips can actually be quite smaller, down to around 45 nanometers.
Click to expand...

All posted by visaris earlier, which Duby backed. gfg donnie. :p I don't think i've ever posted on the amd forums either :p
 
duby229 said:
Logan321 what your talkin about is yeilds. Intel hasnt started the rampup for Conroe yet, so its doubtful that even Intel knows what the yeilds will be.

But I will say this, nobody, and I mean not even a single person yet mentioned power consumption. Nobody has, so I could take a guess and say that the chips they are making now in the research labs are not yeilding well....

Usually lab yeilds are better than fab yeilds, so it's doubtful that it will be good....
Click to expand...

Yes, like this facts?

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1029175283&postcount=104

You might need to google trustworthy sites if that's the case? Yes, the Internet can be both friend and foe. If you'd read the thread, you'd have known that 2.66GHz Conroe as a TDP of 65W and the 3333MHz part is at 95W.

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/fx60/index.htm
TDP / ICCmax 110W / 80A

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=850
Athlon 64 FX-62 AM2 Dual 125W 6/6/06

Now you might be able to fool yourself and fool some young kids while you're at it. But even newbies know Dothan and Yonah use less power and gives off less heat than anything AMD has and Conroe is just the next step from there.

SO I also hope sabrewolf732 can read the links as well. So I ask again, what facts joo talkin' bout?

Refresher Course

See there it is again. More name calling and ignorance.
Click to expand...

Oh, you can call someone childish and etc.. and that's OK, right?

Then please look up the word ignorance? You have no clue what it means. I know what a Troll is and in this case he is Trolling.

Trolling;
He offered NO information or views that had anything to do with the thread.
Then a weak attemp to draw flames, dewd that's trolling.

He's been banned before for phucking with me the same way. A sign if ignorance would be NOT seeing his trolling for what it is. Hint, not knowing is ignorance.

If you cant be called out for your own misinformation, then who is really the troll?
Click to expand...

Link to my misinformation as I did with yours?

No one has spread more misinformation than you have on about your last 15 posts. Now you're showing ignorance. More signs of Trolling. What was he calling me on? We're talking about overclocking. Now please link me to something he disagreed with, had questions about or linked to that proved something different? If I screwed up, correct it. If you do so, do it with correct information, not what you feel in your heart for how much you love AMD.
 
sabrewolf732 said:
Oh really?

All posted by visaris earlier, which Duby backed. gfg donnie. :p I don't think i've ever posted on the amd forums either :p
Click to expand...

See please learn to read? I asked Duby about his facts, I didn't post or ask the question to visaris. Please pay attention?
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
65nm vs 90nm though :D
Click to expand...

But AM2 will ship with 90nm though, NOT 65nm last time I checked. FX-62 is a 90nm part.

Added, when AMD shows/demos something (65nm), then we'll talk about it.
 
Wonder how many AMD supporters will suddenly start to care more about the environment some inexplicable reason? :D

BTW, about the Fab argument, I'd love to see if anyone has anything more substantial to go up against visaris and duby other than "AMD don't have the gears for it rollereyes LOL." Visaris linked to his sources and used clear logic, and duby expounded on this, while their opponents made dubious Word analogies and provided no corroboration on their facts whatsoever. I have no idea; as far as I know, either could be right, but I find the discussion very interesting.
 
LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
Wonder how many AMD supporters will suddenly start to care more about the environment some inexplicable reason? :D
Click to expand...
how so? AMD has been in the lead for power consumption for a while, despite being a bit behind on fab tech ;)
 
LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
Wonder how many AMD supporters will suddenly start to care more about the environment some inexplicable reason? :D
Click to expand...

Environment isnt a concern of mine, its TCO.
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
how so? AMD has been in the lead for power consumption for a while, despite being a bit behind on fab tech ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah, but if Conroe pwns like it looks like it will, that's what'll keep people buying AMD, just like Hyperthreading was what brought people back to Intel even after AMD stole the performance crown. Pre dual core, of course.
 
LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
Yeah, but if Conroe pwns like it looks like it will, that's what'll keep people buying AMD, just like Hyperthreading was what brought people back to Intel even after AMD stole the performance crown. Pre dual core, of course.
Click to expand...

Honestly, both AM2 and Conroe are too expensive of upgrade paths for the perfomance gained. New RAM, board, and chip for either.
I want to see a Conroe DVDShrink benchmark. That's an important CPU-limited app for me. Too bad that program isnt legal in the US, or else Intel could flaunt its performance at the IDF.
 
robberbaron said:
I want to see a Conroe DVDShrink benchmark. That's an important CPU-limited app for me. Too bad that program isnt legal in the US, or else Intel could flaunt its performance at the IDF.
Click to expand...
i'd personally like to see a superPI 1m and 32m run :cool:
 
robberbaron said:
Honestly, both AM2 and Conroe are too expensive of upgrade paths for the perfomance gained. New RAM, board, and chip for either.
Click to expand...

I entirely agree. My X2 rig isn't going anywhere soon. Doesn't mean I can't be excited about Conroe though. I bought the X2 because it was the king. The king is dead. Long live the king.
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
how so? AMD has been in the lead for power consumption for a while, despite being a bit behind on fab tech ;)
Click to expand...

So AMD processors use less power than Dothan and Yonah or do you count only P4 as Intel? I have brought this up before.
 
Donnie27 said:
So AMD processors use less power than Dothan and Yonah or do you count only P4 as Intel? I have brought this up before.
Click to expand...
i consider dothan/yonah and turion to be roughly equal in terms of TDP... though intel appears to have the edge when you look at the numbers, the two companies rate the TDP much differently, effectively making them equal.

and oc'ed dothan though.. whee :D
 
Donnie27 said:
So AMD processors use less power than Dothan and Yonah or do you count only P4 as Intel? I have brought this up before.
Click to expand...

Yeah Core Duo is a really power efficient dual core. Though it seems like its a temporary stepping stone for Merom, which will be all around a much better mobile (compatibility with future applications, performance-per-watt, etc)
 
LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
I entirely agree. My X2 rig isn't going anywhere soon. Doesn't mean I can't be excited about Conroe though. I bought the X2 because it was the king. The king is dead. Long live the king.
Click to expand...

For the 22nd time, I may add a cheaper X2 to my system hehehe! Yet, I'm still excited about Conroe and will be about K10 as well. What real Geek wouldn't be?
 
robberbaron said:
Yeah Core Duo is a really power efficient dual core. Though it seems like its a temporary stepping stone for Merom, which will be all around a much better mobile (compatibility with future applications, performance-per-watt, etc)
Click to expand...

You got it and that whole transistion thing is why some folks didn't buy it. This may happen to AM2 as well. The pending Conroe will hurt both processors IMHO. There are rumors of a better stepping of 9xx as well, but just rumor.
 
Honestly, the whole thing doesn't really matter until Intel IS producing these chips, and then compare them to the chips that AMD IS producting. Comparing a couple non-production chips through benchmarks run at different times with different memory, beta bioses, and whatever else, and then making QFT statements about the results seems like fan-boi-ism to me, regardless of whether you prefer one or the other.

Here's the three truths I believe.

1. All that glitters is not gold. I'd wait for production models and pricing before making any solid comparisons between products.

2. A CPUs overall value depends on three things - price, performance, and efficiency. At this point, we still have no indication of what price Intel is going to charge for conroe, and I suspect it will be a lot.

3. Arguing over the internet is pointless. Please cut the mudslinging and name calling, it's trivial and childish.
 
Logan321...

That is mostly the point I have been trying to make. Tho I couldnt have posted it so brilliantly...

Well said, and thank you.
 
By the way, TDP on lab samples mean absolutely nothing. First they were not measured rates..... Or at the very least so far noone has verified them... I'd suspect that they arent too good, becouse why else would Intel prevent people from verifying themain selling point of this architecture?

Second the way that AMD and Intel measure TDP is very differant. Intel measures typical power, AMD measures maximum safe power....

Big differance....
 
duby229 said:
Second the way that AMD and Intel measure TDP is very differant. Intel measures typical power, AMD measures maximum safe power....

Big differance....
Click to expand...

Yep. The "67W" 3000+/3200+/3500+/3800+ really drink about ~40-44W at absolutely full load.
 
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