AMD, where are you?

Stoly said:
Right now I'm more interested in what could intel bring to the table.
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thats-a-good-one.jpg
 
_mockingbird said:
AMD is working on a brand new architecture to replace GCN.

It was originally planned for 2021, but AMD is putting a lot of muscle into it, so it might be ready sometime in 2020.
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2020? AMD has to come better than that. I learned from Vega as to not wait. And what should we expect in 2020? Cards that match Nvidia's performance from two-years prior?
 
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Spoonie_G said:
2020? AMD has to come better than that. I learned from Vega as to now wait. And what should we expect in 2020? Cards that match Nvidia's performance from two-years prior?
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it takes time to start from scratch.. my guess is they pretty much dumped everything Raja and his team was working on but doing a vega refresh on 7nm instead of a completely new architecture is probably the best thing for them, takes a lot of the variables out and can directly compare it to current vega to see if there are any issues before doing a whole new architecture on 7nm.
 
Spoonie_G said:
2020? AMD has to come better than that. I learned from Vega as to now wait. And what should we expect in 2020? Cards that match Nvidia's performance from two-years prior?
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If history repeat itself, it would be cards that can't even match the performance of the 2nd tier card.
 
There is nothing wrong with a refresh that gives you another 15% or so performance boost as rumored. What is wrong with that? We all know next gen won’t be here. So I don’t understand why AMD should hold back 12nm refresh if they have it ready for the next 6-8 months. I am sure buyers won’t mind another 15% boost out of the box at the same price as rx 580.

Keep expectations in check and you won’t be disappointed.
 
Stoly said:
If history repeat itself, it would be cards that can't even match the performance of the 2nd tier card.
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Not sure. They are refreshing the mid range cards. I am not sure where it said high end. Obviously they have already admitted they have that in the works. Like he said above not everyone wants a 1200 dollar card and run at a million hz lol.
 
NKD said:
There is nothing wrong with a refresh that gives you another 15% or so performance boost as rumored. What is wrong with that? We all know next gen won’t be here. So I don’t understand why AMD should hold back 12nm refresh if they have it ready for the next 6-8 months. I am sure buyers won’t mind another 15% boost out of the box at the same price as rx 580.

Keep expectations in check and you won’t be disappointed.
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It depends on what characteristics the product has since we don't know that leaves performance. And all is relative to pricing as well.

This was the most interesting bit I found about Polaris:
 
Don't know about Polaris, but it seems like there's some good deals to be had on Vega 64s right now.
I just took the plunge on one for $499+free shipping that came with the 3 free game voucher. Pairing it with my new 4k Freesync monitor.

Sadly, the deals don't seem to be as good on Vega 56 at the moment :(
 
pfc_m_drake said:
Don't know about Polaris, but it seems like there's some good deals to be had on Vega 64s right now.
I just took the plunge on one for $499+free shipping that came with the 3 free game voucher. Pairing it with my new 4k Freesync monitor.

Sadly, the deals don't seem to be as good on Vega 56 at the moment :(
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Check around 14:40 mark you will be amazed :) . 12nm could be quite good for Polaris.
 
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I'd be up for an upgrade to my RX 580 at a reasonable price, if only 10-15% performance out of the box, maybe get 2-5% more with an overclock. I'd be happy with that If it only costs 300-400.
 
My google feed early this week had several different news stories come up about an imminent 12 nm Polaris refresh coming in October. I think it was two different anonymous sources from within AMD, as well as some data mining of new device IDs in AMD drivers that line up with Polaris cards that currently don't exist, and don't match up with Vega at all.

I think I posted a WCCFTech article earlier in the thread a couple of months ago that said a Polaris refresh was coming this year. Maybe they weren't spewing bullshit this time.
 
I wanted to try Polaris and waited on the refresh as about the time the 580 hit so did mining , many of us are now getting to sample it with good drivers and free games ! I was only looking at replacing a R9-280 with RX 570 @ $190 and with one 8 pin connector it pretty much replaced my 290x as World of Tanks and Ship is Ultra 1080p Free Sync 2 it amazing paired Ryzen 1600 for the price .. I may wait on upgrading 290x as what's coming but 580 8Gb is in the scope for 4K World of Tanks.
 
If AMD could bring out a Polaris card to slide between a 1060 and 1070 for the price of a 580, they'll have a winner on their hands.
 
KazeoHin said:
If AMD could bring out a Polaris card to slide between a 1060 and 1070 for the price of a 580, they'll have a winner on their hands.
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In many cases the 580 beats the 1060, but I agree, if they could inch up to 1070 / ti performance that would rock.
 
pfc_m_drake said:
Don't know about Polaris, but it seems like there's some good deals to be had on Vega 64s right now.
I just took the plunge on one for $499+free shipping that came with the 3 free game voucher. Pairing it with my new 4k Freesync monitor.

Sadly, the deals don't seem to be as good on Vega 56 at the moment :(
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I'd disagree. Picked up two Sapphire Pulse vega 56's last week for $399 each, new. After tinkering with some mild OC, they're both at least as fast as my Vega 64 is at stock. No bios flash, just mild undervolt and pushing the HBM up to about 950 MHz. Really impressed by the AIB cooling.
 
Dan said:
now that we have no idea of actoual real performance of RTX line... When is AMD going to come along with something
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AMD does not have the massive amount of world class resources for research and funding it takes to develop a world class graphics card. I think they are still stuck on GTX 1060 performance if I am not mistaken and not even exact performance. Most of the cards fall slightly behind on nVidia's performance level. Not all but most? I think AMD might have a few cards that barely beat the 1060? And of course this logic is backed by hard numbers. I've posted this before, AMD's 2017 yearly financials were a drop in the bucket compared to nVidia. On the CPU side of things, in 2017 AMD reported 4 billion in revenue compared to Intel's 40 .. 50 .. 60 billion? I forget the exact numbers but it's a massive difference between the two. What this means obviously is the amount of research they can afford. Those research dollars are a lot less compared to nVidia.

While I totally agree that competition is good. AMD has been losing key players within it's graphic division over the past 2 or 3 years. Many of those men and women were even reported here on HardOCP. I remember one quarter a few years ago they lost several people. They recently lost Raja Koduri to Intel. What all these means is simple. The grass is greener on the other side for one reason or another. Longevity, a creative environment, a bright future. A purpose. Is the ship sinking? Something was driving those men and woman away from AMD's Radeon Group and in shocking numbers. Have the recovered? Ultimately, what does all this mean moving forward. AMD's Radeon Dept is definitely suffering even today those departures one could safely assume.

I surely hope AMD can at least come up with GTX 1080 ti performance within the next 24 months / 2 years. Better late than never. But I doubt we are going to see competitive RT from AMD or anything close to the performance of the 2080 Ti for many years. Even if they arrive a such performance, will they have competitive RT to nVidia on their GPU? And what about the other fantastic features the new Turing architecture has?

I also want you guys to understand that one key strategy companies deploy against other competitors in the same market space is "barrier to entry technologies." this has done in countless businesses starting with the Industrial Revolution in the very late 18th century and early 19th century. I could give several examples. There literally may come a point where AMD cannot compete and, if they can, to a much lesser role. There were several players in the printer market, monitor market and other markets that could not compete moving forward for this very reason and ended up going out of business. Again, I can give several examples. And while I do not think this will happen to the AMD Radeon Dept because of the success of AMD's CPU side, they could cease to operate in any meaningful way in regards to the discreet graphics PC segment. The could very well decide to just focus on the APU side of things, game consoles, etc. I promise nVidia is working very very hard to take the whole pie home for themselves leaving nothing for anyone else. Is it possible AMD's Radeon Graphics Division could eventually be sold? Who knows. I also want to point out, this is all just speculation but there is a lot of common sense logic in what I'm saying.

I would prepare yourself for the worse and enjoy any good that eventual comes your way if you're an AMD GPU supporter and fan. Temper your expectations with AMD's past performance.

Also, I could caution anyone here from becoming so sour toward nVidia that you find yourself not being able to enjoy games in the way you want to whatever those metrics are for you personally. Part of that enjoyment could be having a powerful video card. Another, cost. I know many of you on AMD cannot push 4K. And I know many of you are wanting to make the move to 4k gaming. it's a terrible position to be in and it does give off a bitter sour feeling. You love AMD but there is nothing to buy. You want something new but you hate nVidia ... I've been there and I know the feeling all to well. I used to hate nVidia for charging so much more over AMD. I did. For a good 3 years I refused to own anything from nVidia. I eventually had to question why I was doing this to myself. One day back in, I think it was 2012 ... suddenly sold my AMD cards and bought a much more expensive nVidia card. I've never looked back since that day.

I'm not an nVidia fan. If anything, I'm an underdog fan. I've loved AMD for this very reason. For me, I always felt their purpose was noble in that they worked hard to give consumers very close to the best performance but for a very fair price. And I loved that approach. AMD is still doing this today. Look at their new multi-core CPU's and the incredible performance for a lot less that what Intel charges. That's incredible and we are lucky to have AMD doing this. But this AMD graphics business .... it does sting. I even feel it.

I'm a huge fanboy of "TEAM PERFORMANCE" and ... sadly, the cost of doing that comes dearly. I just spent $1,320 dollars on an RTX 2080 Ti. Had AMD had something close in performance at a lesser cost, I would have been buying AMD, zero doubts about that.

I would say, be true to yourself. If you want something new, more powerful, you want to make the 4K move, or the many other reasons then allow yourself to do that. Yes, it will cost you a bit more money with nVidia. Above anything else, enjoy your gaming. I think that's number one and that's the reason I made the move to nVidia.

Let me be clear however. I will be back on AMD side if and when they can give us something truly worth while.
 
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Stoly said:
View attachment 107248
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Yeah it is English not American :)

To dumb it down for you price performance combined with power usage those are characteristics you might not understand, gave you performance tho ;) .

If the 12nm part is from Global Foundries that has different properties then the 12nm part by TSMC.
If you want you can check what the older Polaris was manufactured at you have an idea on where it might end up performance wise (ballpark) if you know where the new Polaris 30 is manufactured.
 
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Pieter3dnow said:
Yeah it is English not American :)

To dumb it down for you price performance combined with power usage those are characteristics you might not understand, gave you performance tho ;) .

If the 12nm part is from Global Foundries that has different properties then the 12nm part by TSMC.
If you want you can check what the older Polaris was manufactured at you have an idea on where it might end up performance wise (ballpark) if you know where the new Polaris 30 is manufactured.
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what?
 
d8lock said:
If you have freesync monitor there is. Also there is the added bonus of not buying nvidia.
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Why would a solutions that fixes the effect from slow fps be better when you can cheaper fix the Root cause of slow fps?

and even looking besides that nvida give my fast sync as well to use with a non gsync monitor
not as good but pretty close special consindering you get better FPS and a cheaper card.

but then agian it might just be me because i dont like low fps so gsync/freesync is really not important to me.
 
jbc029 said:
I'd disagree. Picked up two Sapphire Pulse vega 56's last week for $399 each, new. After tinkering with some mild OC, they're both at least as fast as my Vega 64 is at stock. No bios flash, just mild undervolt and pushing the HBM up to about 950 MHz. Really impressed by the AIB cooling.
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Keep in mind quotes like that are always in the context of, "At the time of this writing..."

Glad you found a deal on the 56s. I'm enjoying my 64 as well :)
 
SvenBent said:
Why would a solutions that fixes the effect from slow fps be better when you can cheaper fix the Root cause of slow fps?

and even looking besides that nvida give my fast sync as well to use with a non gsync monitor
not as good but pretty close special consindering you get better FPS and a cheaper card.

but then agian it might just be me because i dont like low fps so gsync/freesync is really not important to me.
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Your "fastsync" is nowhere near as good as freesync.
 
Maddness said:
Rumor has it the Polaris refresh is coming soon.
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If true (rumor based on a vague forum post), all this will be is a slight process update. GF 14nm to GF "12nm", but those names are deceptive. The die size is identical for Ryzen 14nm and 12nm.

It's really more like 14nm+ with same exact design. If it were a new design it wouldn't be Polaris.

Maybe they could squeeze another 10% out of Polaris on "12nm" (14nm+), so it really won't change much.
 
d8lock said:
Your "fastsync" is nowhere near as good as freesync.
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Agreed. But you are totally missing the point
freesync is a solution on having to low fps. if you can get a faster card for cheaper, it means you have the means to elevate the issues at the root cause rather than reducing the effect later with Freesync.
 
Snowdog said:
If true (rumor based on a vague forum post), all this will be is a slight process update. GF 14nm to GF "12nm", but those names are deceptive. The die size is identical for Ryzen 14nm and 12nm.

It's really more like 14nm+ with same exact design. If it were a new design it wouldn't be Polaris.

Maybe they could squeeze another 10% out of Polaris on "12nm" (14nm+), so it really won't change much.
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Supposedly it is Polaris 30 not 20 ...
 
SvenBent said:
Agreed. But you are totally missing the point
freesync is a solution on having to low fps. if you can get a faster card for cheaper, it means you have the means to elevate the issues at the root cause rather than reducing the effect later with Freesync.
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You really do not understand the true benefit of Adaptive Sync..It means ZERO tearing as long as you in the proper range (good FS displays are 40-144Hz). Even the 2080TI cannot run games maxed out @ 1440P and give you a constant 144FPS...Those drops and dips mean studder/jutter and an overall sour experience. I did not really see the benefits of AS until I tried it..

I can honestly say I would give up gaming if I were forced to give up Adaptive Sync. Hell I am ready to drop2-3K on a 65-75" 4K set as soon as HDMI 2.1 and or a DP 1.4 set is released that can do 4K 4-4-4 60+ or a guaranteed 120fps @ 1080P if the game I am playing does not allow for resolution scaling in game.
 
SixFootDuo said:
AMD does not have the massive amount of world class resources for research and funding it takes to develop a world class graphics card. I think they are still stuck on GTX 1060 performance if I am not mistaken and not even exact performance. Most of the cards fall slightly behind on nVidia's performance level. Not all but most? I think AMD might have a few cards that barely beat the 1060? And of course this logic is backed by hard numbers. .
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I stopped reading right there considering I have some of the fastest VEGAs in the world that are able to run 24/7 (meaning no LN2). There are currently 3 GPUs on the market faster then mine: 1080TI, 2080, and a 2080TI. Just to refute your "logic backed by hard numbers."
 
ccityinstaller said:
I stopped reading right there considering I have some of the fastest VEGAs in the world that are able to run 24/7 (meaning no LN2). There are currently 3 GPUs on the market faster then mine: 1080TI, 2080, and a 2080TI. Just to refute your "logic backed by hard numbers."
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And also, the 580, vega 56, and vega 64 all beat a gtx1060. The fury x might also.
 
Wow this thread... Im 32 and dont consider myself "old" and I can remember when AMD was the top dog... Why are people b*tching and say that ...blablabla... they will be XYZ behind... blablabla "insert whatever here"...
Tables turn FAST as we all saw with Ryzen... please wish for the best and stop been toxic, nobody want that type of friend.

We want & need competition, if it takes 5 years, be it... but keep trying. Without competition we'll get price gouged.
 
MMitch said:
Wow this thread... Im 32 and dont consider myself "old" and I can remember when AMD was the top dog... Why are people b*tching and say that ...blablabla... they will be XYZ behind... blablabla "insert whatever here"...
Tables turn FAST as we all saw with Ryzen... please wish for the best and stop been toxic, nobody want that type of friend.

We want & need competition, if it takes 5 years, be it... but keep trying. Without competition we'll get price gouged.
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RTX could easily be the equivilant of Intel’s security flaws. If those didn’t hit Intel so hard AMD would still be in an awful place.

Most people don’t care about RTX features and a 2080ti is only ~50% faster in nonRTX ways than a Vega64. AMD could get very close in traditional games for cheaper... but timing matters.
 
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