AMD, Where Are You?

[Creig]

Bruh,

You're the one that brought up a 480 being 'plenty decent' for 1440p and how DX12 would magically make it run better, somehow in the future. It isn't, and never will be.

First off, Bruh, I did not say the RX480 was "plenty decent" for 1440P. I said it was "decent". Stop trying to make your argument look more convincing by deliberately misquoting me. And it is decent. Not perfect. Decent.

An RX480 is plenty good for 1080P and is still decent for 1440P.

I'm glad you only need to game at 1080p - Because you're right. A 480 is enough. As was my 980. But you can't tell people to stick with AMD when AMD offers nothing to compete with even a 1070 which for NVidia is still third man on the totem pole. Most enthusiasts, especially on this website, have moved or are moving to at least 1440p.

Secondly, Bruh, I can certainly tell people to stick to AMD if the card in question has a better price : performance ratio than its Nvidia counterpart. As I already stated, over 93% of gamers out there are running 1920x1080 or under which is prime RX480 territory. People who game at 1440P and above are a minuscule minority compared to everyone else. You can't look at the sigs of [H] members and conclude that the average gamer out there is running a 1070/1080/Titan X. That's deluded thinking.

 

[euskalzabe]

AMD doesn't compete against NVIDIA anymore and hasn't been able to for a few years now. Why do people still expect this? They're a budget brand and that is their target market, just leave it at that.

Anyone who makes a comment like this seems quite ignorant about AMD's history. They have had a bad hardware cycle (AKA - ~6 years) because of several choices on the CPU side that didn't pan out and derailed their R&D. That's being fixed with Zen. If they execute as well as they did in early 2000s, they'll regain marketshare, money and thus be able to afford R&D for new and even more competitive products. If anything, I'm amazed of what they've achieved in the past 3 years while earning peanuts.

Don't count AMD out. They were formidable and then made a mess. They can be formidable again.

 

[Mchart]

Anyone who makes a comment like this seems quite ignorant about AMD's history. They have had a bad hardware cycle (AKA - ~6 years) because of several choices on the CPU side that didn't pan out and derailed their R&D. That's being fixed with Zen. If they execute as well as they did in early 2000s, they'll regain marketshare, money and thus be able to afford R&D for new and even more competitive products. If anything, I'm amazed of what they've achieved in the past 3 years while earning peanuts.

Don't count AMD out. They were formidable and then made a mess. They can be formidable again.

On one hand that is true. The situation this time around isn't similar though. A decade ago Intel was recovering from the mess that was the Netburst choice. Intel is not in that mess right now. So while AMD may be trying to recover - Unlike last time their competitor isn't in a mess.

 

[5150Joker]

Anyone who makes a comment like this seems quite ignorant about AMD's history. They have had a bad hardware cycle (AKA - ~6 years) because of several choices on the CPU side that didn't pan out and derailed their R&D. That's being fixed with Zen. If they execute as well as they did in early 2000s, they'll regain marketshare, money and thus be able to afford R&D for new and even more competitive products. If anything, I'm amazed of what they've achieved in the past 3 years while earning peanuts.

Don't count AMD out. They were formidable and then made a mess. They can be formidable again.

The GPU business is a very fast moving one and AMD is far too behind. They're no longer in the running in the top end and are only there to fill the mainstream market. Even with that they continue to bleed money and haven't gained much marketshare with Polaris. As it stands right now, the GPU business very closely mirrors the CPU side of things (a monopoly). I don't subscribe to the AMD hope train, it's fallen off the rails far too many times.

 

[TheBlueChanell]

The GPU business is a very fast moving one and AMD is far too behind. They're no longer in the running in the top end and are only there to fill the mainstream market. Even with that they continue to bleed money and haven't gained much marketshare with Polaris. As it stands right now, the GPU business very closely mirrors the CPU side of things (a monopoly). I don't subscribe to the AMD hope train, it's fallen off the rails far too many times.

AMD has finally been executing a decent turn around, the turn around everyone has been waiting for the last decade. The pieces finally seem to be falling into place and their product release cadences are falling in line with that. You also need to consider the resources available internally to the number of product launches they're doing. Every single release this past 2H 2016 has been hyper-focused and executed pretty well, imo.

The groundwork for their high-end parts (Vega) has been laid with Polaris by the time the cards are finally released the DX12/Vulkan software stack will be much more available which will look great considering the GCN's performance in those API's. Zen is also incoming and they've been raising their bottom line with all of the Polaris parts/design wins (i.e Newest MBP), 7th Gen APU's and custom SoC refreshes. They have been working to increase the quality of their OEM design wins which is great because Zen/Polaris/Vega based APU's will slide right in when ready next year. This same principle also applies to the Radeon Pro segment they're currently using Fiji hardware to launch with. They are gonna close up deals/contracts now, iron out the kinks and slip Vega right in as the second generation as smoothly as possible.

There is no doom and gloom, there is no abandoning of the high-end segment and the sky isn't falling. What you're seeing is spurts of a confident, competent, hyper-focused and competitive AMD for the first time in years. We will see if this trend continues.

I'm also no MBA but I'd imagine the staggered / cascaded product releases maybe also has something to do with spreading out their financials / balancing budget / sheets and all of that fun business-side-of-things stuff to please their investors. They no longer want to have droughts where they have no new products coming down/out of the pipeline leaving huge holes in their quarterlies. Just a semi-educated guess with this stuff as again, I'm no MBA.

 

[Shintai]

The only laptop design win Polaris got is the MacBook, pretty much nothing else. And I wouldn't count on the next MacBook to continue using AMD parts. The delta is simply too huge. The value of the deal is also a mere 25M$ a quarter.

GCN today is pretty much what GCN was in 2012 because the RTG division got no money. Its tiny fixes and IC designs that the R&D goes to besides drivers.

And Zen? AMD could never compete with the Pentium M. And its over 10 years ago they lost the desktop.

Then we can all hear about great stories from back in the good old days. But those days are not today. Those days back then also had a much more competitive R&D and its own fabs as well. And it required the competition to do all the failures.

The #waitforvega, #waitfornavi, #waitforzen and what else we have to keep on waiting for in the eternal waiting cycle. Its not happening. Even if Vega can compete in raw performance with 1070 and 1080 and ignoring perf/watt and ROI. Its pretty much a year late. And then you are going to see new refresh lines and lower prices. Just so the #waitforamd game can begin again. Polaris made AMDs graphics share from the look of it go from 20% down to 15% for new cards.

 

[CSI_PC]

The #waitforvega, #waitfornavi, #waitforzen and what else we have to keep on waiting for in the eternal waiting cycle. Its not happening. Even if Vega can compete in raw performance with 1070 and 1080 and ignoring perf/watt and ROI. Its pretty much a year late. And then you are going to see new refresh lines and lower prices. Just so the #waitforamd game can begin again. Polaris made AMDs graphics share from the look of it go from 20% down to 15% for new cards.

Yeah.
That is my concern as well, the longer it takes the closer it is to Volta that will be on consumers' minds, and separately while prices of higher end Pascal can start to be comfortably reduced in price when Vega is here meaning Nvidia will be able to compete aggresively on price if it wants to by then.
Yeah I doubt we will see any mainstream Volta cards late next year, but I am pretty sure we will see the new V80 or more probable VTitan Q4.
It should not escape most people how quickly Nvidia has populated every segment with Pascal this year after the more radical Tesla P100.
Cheers

 

[TheBlueChanell]

Who says Vega is going to compete with the 1070/1080?

I wasn't just talking about Polaris specific design wins but also APU based ones. They are slowly working with OEM/their partners to improve the quality and experience of notebooks/ultrabooks using APU's. Carizzo got neutered big time and under the right circumstances, even being a 'dozer derivative it could compete with Intel's current mobile offerings and made leaps in bounds in efficiency and PPW over previous generation platforms.

It's pretty amazing what AMD was able to do with excavator+ and a mature 28nm process.

 

[Shintai]

Who says Vega is going to compete with the 1070/1080?

I wasn't just talking about Polaris specific design wins but also APU based ones. They are slowly working with OEM/their partners to improve the quality and experience of notebooks/ultrabooks using APU's. Carizzo got neutered big time and under the right circumstances, even being a 'dozer derivative it could compete with Intel's current mobile offerings and made leaps in bounds in efficiency and PPW over previous generation platforms.

It's pretty amazing what AMD was able to do with excavator+ and a mature 28nm process.

The APU story have been heard for ages as well. The fact is that the next APU always sells less than the one it replaces. And AMD continues to lose share. Because guess what, its stuck between those not needing more than desktop stuff where any IGP is fine and those that game where the APUs fall flat on its face. Not to mention the throttle monster it is and the ever bandwidth limitation.

Not to mention Zen APU is a Q4 2017 product, perhaps even 2018.

 

[Activate: AMD]

AMD has finally been executing a decent turn around, the turn around everyone has been waiting for the last decade. The pieces finally seem to be falling into place and their product release cadences are falling in line with that. You also need to consider the resources available internally to the number of product launches they're doing. Every single release this past 2H 2016 has been hyper-focused and executed pretty well, imo.

The groundwork for their high-end parts (Vega) has been laid with Polaris by the time the cards are finally released the DX12/Vulkan software stack will be much more available which will look great considering the GCN's performance in those API's. Zen is also incoming and they've been raising their bottom line with all of the Polaris parts/design wins (i.e Newest MBP), 7th Gen APU's and custom SoC refreshes. They have been working to increase the quality of their OEM design wins which is great because Zen/Polaris/Vega based APU's will slide right in when ready next year. This same principle also applies to the Radeon Pro segment they're currently using Fiji hardware to launch with. They are gonna close up deals/contracts now, iron out the kinks and slip Vega right in as the second generation as smoothly as possible.

There is no doom and gloom, there is no abandoning of the high-end segment and the sky isn't falling. What you're seeing is spurts of a confident, competent, hyper-focused and competitive AMD for the first time in years. We will see if this trend continues.

I'm also no MBA but I'd imagine the staggered / cascaded product releases maybe also has something to do with spreading out their financials / balancing budget / sheets and all of that fun business-side-of-things stuff to please their investors. They no longer want to have droughts where they have no new products coming down/out of the pipeline leaving huge holes in their quarterlies. Just a semi-educated guess with this stuff as again, I'm no MBA.

Not sure I subscribe to your optimism. On what basis are you saying they've executed a turnaround in their ways within the GPU world? "Hyper focused" releases, not sure what that means. Polaris 10 is hotter and slower than its competitior, Polaris 11 is a footnote on the asscrack of the enthusiast market, and Vega is 6+ months behind its competition. Launching Fiji as Radeon Pro isn't news, its recycling old hardware and re-branding the old FirePro to "Radeon Pro" and telling everybody things will be better now (we promise!). DX12 isn't buying them the performance we were promised by the fanboys... turns out AotS really is just a glorified and pointless benchmark. The MBP design win is nice I guess, but Nvidia will have dozens more mainstream notebook wins up and down the stack. Not saying the sky is falling, because at least Polaris 10 is competitive, but I don't see anything well and truly NEW from AMD, and its hard to get excited about a company that's only a bit less bad this year than it was last year. I used to love AMD and would love a return to form, but even I can't pretend anymore. Luckily I don't have to champion their cause any more in the face of logic and facts, /r/AMD and Red Team Plus can do that instead.

 

[Mackintire]

RX 480? That the best you got? GTX 1070 and 1080 have been out for a little bit now. What? You worried about power consumption? Your loyal base never cared about that. What? Fury? How about a 6 or 8 gb version. Are you listening?

This was our attempt at a mainstream card, and we had some bad leadership in the process as well. Don't worry Vega will arrive in the 1st half of 2017, and you'll have to wait see where the chips fall...

 

[razor1]

The GPU business is a very fast moving one and AMD is far too behind. They're no longer in the running in the top end and are only there to fill the mainstream market. Even with that they continue to bleed money and haven't gained much marketshare with Polaris. As it stands right now, the GPU business very closely mirrors the CPU side of things (a monopoly). I don't subscribe to the AMD hope train, it's fallen off the rails far too many times.

LOL what rails, think it was derailed years ago and still haven't been able to find the tracks . But yeah believing in AMD's "wait to see what we have" so far the past 3 gens have been just disappointment after disappointment. AMD can't really be trusted when they have their marketers and PR people spinning their way to failures.

AMD has finally been executing a decent turn around, the turn around everyone has been waiting for the last decade. The pieces finally seem to be falling into place and their product release cadences are falling in line with that. You also need to consider the resources available internally to the number of product launches they're doing. Every single release this past 2H 2016 has been hyper-focused and executed pretty well, imo.

The groundwork for their high-end parts (Vega) has been laid with Polaris by the time the cards are finally released the DX12/Vulkan software stack will be much more available which will look great considering the GCN's performance in those API's. Zen is also incoming and they've been raising their bottom line with all of the Polaris parts/design wins (i.e Newest MBP), 7th Gen APU's and custom SoC refreshes. They have been working to increase the quality of their OEM design wins which is great because Zen/Polaris/Vega based APU's will slide right in when ready next year. This same principle also applies to the Radeon Pro segment they're currently using Fiji hardware to launch with. They are gonna close up deals/contracts now, iron out the kinks and slip Vega right in as the second generation as smoothly as possible.

There is no doom and gloom, there is no abandoning of the high-end segment and the sky isn't falling. What you're seeing is spurts of a confident, competent, hyper-focused and competitive AMD for the first time in years. We will see if this trend continues.

I'm also no MBA but I'd imagine the staggered / cascaded product releases maybe also has something to do with spreading out their financials / balancing budget / sheets and all of that fun business-side-of-things stuff to please their investors. They no longer want to have droughts where they have no new products coming down/out of the pipeline leaving huge holes in their quarterlies. Just a semi-educated guess with this stuff as again, I'm no MBA.

AMD has not been executing well, Polaris was to be coming out earlier than Pascal, that didn't happen, added to that power consumption vs performance is abysmal for Polaris when comparing the two lines. Vega is a year out from Pascal performance/enthusiast launch relegating AMD to selling mid range and low end, and they are not gaining any market share if the last Q's financial figures tell us anything. Their hyper focus so far as been to focus on marketing because they don't have shit in product, so yeah that is typical marketing.

I sure hope the ground for Polaris is not what they are using for Vega, because if it is, Vega will be in trouble. Polaris can't compete with Pascal. LLAPI's have shown no real advantage to AMD hardware outside of game evolved titles, and even some of those aren't favorable to either IHV's anymore.

Zen is their last hope it might get them out of the hole they are in but they will need to move fast, as I stated in another thread, 3 years that's all they have for Zen if its good (seems to be), if it puts pressure on Intel, Intel will retaliate with better products, we know they have the capabilities and 3 years means 2 gens of CPU's for them to get a response from them.

And no don't expect Zen/ Polaris/ Vega based APU's to do well if they can't compete with Intel core for core on the cpu front, as we are well aware APU's and Intel's IGPU are bandwidth limited right now, to get out of that limitation, AMD if they go to use HBM, will not be cost effective for that market, so that is out of play.

AMD will not be in good standing if Zen doesn't give AMD increased margins, they will not be able to increase R&D if this doesn't happen. It looks like it will at the moment, but again, Intel's response is what is important here. Zen doesn't look like its going to go head to head on the CPU front. So if Intel decides to push Cannon Lake or Coffee Lake more than that usual 10-15% increase they have been doing, AMD might be back in the same situation as they are in now. But these things we have no viability on as Intel doesn't talk about them, unlike AMD we are pretty sure its going to end up at Ivy bridge to Haswell level for core performance. So the only visibility we have is at max 3 years for AMD because Intel can and will respond to anything AMD has for Zen.

 

[atom]

This was our attempt at a mainstream card, and we had some bad leadership in the process as well. Don't worry Vega will arrive in the 1st half of 2017, and you'll have to wait see where the chips fall...

Do you work for AMD?

 

[Mackintire]

Do you work for AMD?

No, I have some leaky friends though....

Historically my predictions...when I post them are right >80% of the time.



Everything desktop for Zen depends on the final clock speeds.

The IPC is better than Haswell's.

Zen server outcome is dependent on what volume at what final yield for the higher core count products.

Zen Mobile is going to give Intel heartburn.

Vega will have no problem responding to the 1070

 

[thesmokingman]

Vega will have no problem responding to the 1070

A 980ti can respond to the 1070. Vega should be responding to at least the 1080, ideally Titan. C'mon man...

 

[Shintai]

No, I have some leaky friends though....

Historically my predictions...when I post them are right >80% of the time.



Everything desktop for Zen depends on the final clock speeds.

The IPC is better than Haswell's.

Zen server outcome is dependent on what volume at what final yield for the higher core count products.

Zen Mobile is going to give Intel heartburn.

Vega will have no problem responding to the 1070

So this is one of those <20% again.

And Vega better need to compete with more than 1070. Not to mention using much more power doing so. Tho Vega may end up like another Fiji.

 

[Mackintire]

The focus is on beating the 1080ti profitably.

 

[Shintai]

The focus is on beating the 1080ti profitably.

The 1080ti doesn't exist yet.

But Vega would have to beat 1080 first. And the cost structure favours Nvidia big time. HBM is an epic flop in that regard. It takes 2x480(15% more SPs than Vega) to compete with 1080. And GP102 is far from that target.

Words are cheap, delivering products is a whole other thing. And the next AMD product is always so amazing...until it gets released. The last AMD product actually living up to expectations was what, Bobcat? That they then completely dropped on the floor for successors.

 

[razor1]

The focus is on beating the 1080ti profitably.

To beat the 1080ti profitability, that means they need to get a butt load of performance out over the 1070 like 70% more? Why even mention a 1070 then a 1080ti lol, two very different leagues of cards.

Might as well say they are going after Volta for that matter with that kinda generalization.

Also Shintai, Vega's late arrival, if it doesn't deliver more than the 1070 or the 1080, or the 1080ti (where ever it falls) it will need to be priced lower if it comes out later *1080ti, and of course its later then the previous other too, to even make it a consideration for people that have been "waiting" for it, sure looks like people haven't been waiting for Vega going by financial calls, so it will be a wash if it doesn't out perform its counterpart where ever it falls.

So back to the point Mackintire, because of this it will not be more profitable than nV's offerings, because pricing is not in favor of AMD unless they can get performance to the point it can overwhelm nV's offerings (were ever Vega may fall), since the year or so "delay" relatively speaking over Pascal.

 

[Mackintire]

AMD will compete where they can.

My point was with Vega they CAN easily compete with the 1070. How far Vega's design can be pushed... No one is saying. But the high target is the unreleased 1080ti.

If I hear anything otherwise I'll let you know.

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

Didn't AMD gain market share last quarter?

 

[razor1]

They gained because of seasonal weakness from total sales from nV last quarter, AMD only gained 100k total cards sold vs nV losing 3 million cards sold. I suspect nV gained back those 3 million lost sales looking at their blow out financials. So pretty much that 5% gain they got last quarter is going to get cut back down to what it was in Q1 of 2016, hard to say what will happen in the notebook segment but withstanding that, desktop tops seems like AMD stayed flat.

 

[razor1]

AMD will compete where they can.

My point was with Vega they CAN easily compete with the 1070. How far Vega's design can be pushed... No one is saying. But the high target is the unreleased 1080ti.

If I hear anything otherwise I'll let you know.

That is kinda what is already understood though think quite a few of us stated that should happen almost err 7 months ago or so, Fury X gets to the 1070 in performance, they better be faster then that the question is how much faster and at what power consumption. Where ever it hits in performance if its not within 15% of the same power envelope of its competition, we will see the same thing that happened with Fiji happen with Vega, because of the delay, and that causes the reason the lack of need for an upgrade.

This is easy to see, when you have no competition for close to a year, anyone with the upgrade itch, are going to upgrade, now if Vega doesn't set itself apart from Pascal (where ever it hits), performance, features what not and isn't in the same power envelopes as its competition, what is the reason for those people that already have Pascal cards to switch over? Nothing really. That is a problem, how is AMD going to get around that? Well next time they need to make sure there is no lag in getting its products out. We are looking at 80% of the market already going towards nV this gen, just look at the financials, we can see the same trend that has happened since Maxwell, not very scientific but one company is definitely selling a lot more and making more per card. Easy to see it right?

 

[ManofGod]

They gained because of seasonal weakness from total sales from nV last quarter

Yep, before I even unhid your post, I knew this is exactly what you were going to say. Good luck with that though, AMD is gaining ground. Sorry about your precious Nvidia.

 

[razor1]

Yep, before I even unhid your post, I knew this is exactly what you were going to say. Good luck with that though, AMD is gaining ground. Sorry about your precious Nvidia.

Good luck trying to buck the truth lol. What did I say when Lisa Sue started mixing and matching JPR numbers, they aren't telling us the truth, and that is what happened lol. They didn't, now I'm saying when you look at the hard facts of the amount of money nV just made, there is only one logical explanation, and the numbers are coming out in the next 3 weeks, so..... Kinda know what I'm talking about here....

Manofgod, you can pray to your AMD gods, cause they won't answer your prayers not only that, they will laugh at ya. I made a shit load of money in AMD in the past 5 months in the stock market, because I didn't believe a word they were saying in their reports on day trading plus in the last month before the elections made another 20% on shorting it because of my lack of believe in their Polaris "awesome" sales BS, so yeah what you say doesn't mean jake to me if you can't back anything up, of course you can't that is why you come here make a snide remark and leave. Typical crazy person who think with something other then the brain that God gave ya. In your case......

PS those numbers are in the full report, if you have the money buy the damn report and you will see it. Also Anandtech did a reverse calculation to get numbers, so yeah, no one is making anything up, its only you are blind.

Here is Anandtech's article

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10613...-grabs-market-share-but-nvidia-remains-on-top

So want to try that again ManofGod? Or did God just leave the room?

 

[DooKey]

Yep, before I even unhid your post, I knew this is exactly what you were going to say. Good luck with that though, AMD is gaining ground. Sorry about your precious Nvidia.

SMH

 

[CSI_PC]

Didn't AMD gain market share last quarter?

Mostly because many were holding back from buying Nvidia due to looking at Pascal.
Primary reason a mixture of Pascal being better with DX12 perception and also the performance improvements expected from Pascal.
And now with a full quarter of sales trends, we see that Nvidia increased their gaming revenue (emphasis revenue rather than individual units) from this time last year (not previous quarter) by 63% for Q3.
So that tells us last quarter customers held off and went to town once custom models of Pascal were available across nearly all tiers.

And this time last year, what was the market size comparison between AMD and Nvidia in AIB discrete GPU?
81%

http://www.tweaktown.com/pressrelea...recovers-share-nvidias-expense-jpr/index.html
Note that was also with AMD gaining a little back as well in Q3 2015.

Now I am not saying this means it will be any higher or even equal to the 81%, just that this quarter revenue Nvidia with a 63% revenue increase compared to Q3 '15 suggests it has taken back at minimum a fair chunk back since Q2, a mixture of those Nvidia consumers waiting with not buying Maxwell and those who want something with the performance currently not available with Polaris beyond 480.
Worth noting margins increased by 3%, so that is not the primary reason for the gaming revenue increase, comes down to actual large sales figures (like the trend with the 970, but also now with strong sales for other models in the Pascal tier and not just 1070).
Cheers

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

Mostly because many were holding back from buying Nvidia due to looking at Pascal.
Primary reason a mixture of Pascal being better with DX12 perception and also the performance improvements expected from Pascal.
And now with a full quarter of sales trends, we see that Nvidia increased their gaming revenue (emphasis revenue rather than individual units) from this time last year (not previous quarter) by 63% for Q3.
So that tells us last quarter customers held off and went to town once custom models of Pascal were available across nearly all tiers.

And this time last year, what was the market size comparison between AMD and Nvidia in AIB discrete GPU?
81%

http://www.tweaktown.com/pressrelea...recovers-share-nvidias-expense-jpr/index.html
Note that was also with AMD gaining a little back as well in Q3 2015.

Now I am not saying this means it will be any higher or even equal to the 81%, just that this quarter revenue Nvidia with a 63% revenue increase compared to Q3 '15 suggests it has taken back at minimum a fair chunk back since Q2, a mixture of those Nvidia consumers waiting with not buying Maxwell and those who want something with the performance currently not available with Polaris beyond 480.
Worth noting margins increased by 3%, so that is not the primary reason for the gaming revenue increase, comes down to actual large sales figures (like the trend with the 970, but also now with strong sales for other models in the Pascal tier and not just 1070).
Cheers

That makes no sense, people are waiting to buy Pascal, so they buy AMD cards instead ? Maybe AMDs marketing is working and people are buying up their Rx cards

 

[CSI_PC]

That makes no sense, people are waiting to buy Pascal, so they buy AMD cards instead ? Maybe AMDs marketing is working and people are buying up their Rx cards

So people interested in Nvidia decide to hold off buying Maxwell last quarter and rather than wait for the next generation of cards (not only for improvement in terms of Nvidia with DX12 but also the point its performance overall was going to be much better) at 14/16nm they should by your context all go out and buy 390x/390 and various Fury models
AMD did not actually sell a large amount of 3xx models last quarter (relative to what we see now with Nvidia results), just that they shipped more than Nvidia in Q2 because again those Nvidia consumers were waiting on next generation of 14/16nm and some of the 3xx models had great sales on (and eating Polaris 480 sales).

If what you said happened, you would not have the case where Nvidia has massive sales this quarter along with the stats seen by various shops and also Steam on how well Pascal is doing relative to both Hawaii and Polaris, it is like the 970 trend but this time with the same strength across all tiers of the Pascal range, boosted with a number of those wanting a 14nm AMD GPU with better performance than the 480 also buying 1070 or above.
It does not help AMD only has the 470/480 (ignoring 460) and even that without a notable 1st to market advantage.

 

[rgMekanic]

I've stayed out of this thread but I recon I'll chime in here..

NV knocked it out of the park with Pascal, its absolutely fantastic.

That said, I can't stand them as a company, and feel they're just about the most anti-consumer, shady bunch of people to infest the industry.

I seriously hope that AMD has an answer with Vega, but if not, I'll still keep running with team Red regardless.

 

[Shintai]

Yep, before I even unhid your post, I knew this is exactly what you were going to say. Good luck with that though, AMD is gaining ground. Sorry about your precious Nvidia.

Q3 share result is going to bite you hard. Its clear you had no intention of understanding the numbers. Just chant how great AMD now was, despite they didn't change anything as such.

For new cards we already know that Nvidia sits on 85%+. Perhaps 90%+ after laptops starts to come out in higher volume and 1050 series too.

As someone else mentioned, NVidia revenue increased more than AMDs combined PC division had in revenue.

We also know from Steam that AMDs installed base continues its free fall.

 

[Shintai]

I've stayed out of this thread but I recon I'll chime in here..

NV knocked it out of the park with Pascal, its absolutely fantastic.

That said, I can't stand them as a company, and feel they're just about the most anti-consumer, shady bunch of people to infest the industry.

I seriously hope that AMD has an answer with Vega, but if not, I'll still keep running with team Red regardless.

So why are you buying AMD products? Shouldn't you be buying something else then. Matrox or something? Dont tell me you dont like Nvidia but then pick a company who lied straight out for 10 years and deceived its fans just as long in the CPU segment. And the same is applied for graphics now for the last few years or longer.

 

[CSI_PC]

Back in September there was a lot of reports about Alienware 15 and 17 with a fully functioning 470 (news brief sent from AMD).
However maybe I am missing something but going to Dell and looking at the Alienware 15 or 17, the only options are still Nvidia 1060 and 1070.
So what happened to the 470 Alienware option reported back in September by quite a few publications and sites.
Cheers

 

[razor1]

Likely coming out later, mostly because of supply issues.

 

[CSI_PC]

Likely coming out later, mostly because of supply issues.

6 weeks worth of supply issue?
I tend to think it is a technical issue, but then this could be the case of a paper launch and as you say schedule is quite a bit later.
Some after reading that September announcement and news reports are assuming you can buy laptops with a fully functioning 470 (same as desktop according to some reports) now.
Cheers

 

[Activate: AMD]

That makes no sense, people are waiting to buy Pascal, so they buy AMD cards instead ? Maybe AMDs marketing is working and people are buying up their Rx cards

You really can't understand this? Simplified example using units to define share (not revenue): If 10 people buy AMD cards and 90 people buy Nvidia cards in a quarter, AMD has a 10% share. If 10 people buy AMD cards and 40 people buy Nvidia cards, AMD has a 20% share. Hey look, their share doubled.. suck it Nvidia! Great, they discounted a bunch of old cards (lowering their ASP and margin) to keep flat while a ton of people decided to hold out for Nvidia's next release... AMD fanboys rejoice! But then next quarter 10 people bought AMD cards and 150 bought nvidia cards and nothing has changed.

Quarterly market share as a % doesn't mean anything if you ignore the context

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

You really can't understand this? Simplified example using units to define share (not revenue): If 10 people buy AMD cards and 90 people buy Nvidia cards in a quarter, AMD has a 10% share. If 10 people buy AMD cards and 40 people buy Nvidia cards, AMD has a 20% share. Hey look, their share doubled.. suck it Nvidia! Great, they discounted a bunch of old cards (lowering their ASP and margin) to keep flat while a ton of people decided to hold out for Nvidia's next release... AMD fanboys rejoice! But then next quarter 10 people bought AMD cards and 150 bought nvidia cards and nothing has changed.

Quarterly market share as a % doesn't mean anything if you ignore the context

Are there numbers to show that overall GPU sales were down? None were provided.

 

[Creig]

Bruh,

You're the one that brought up a 480 being 'plenty decent' for 1440p and how DX12 would magically make it run better, somehow in the future. It isn't, and never will be.

I'm glad you only need to game at 1080p - Because you're right. A 480 is enough. As was my 980. But you can't tell people to stick with AMD when AMD offers nothing to compete with even a 1070 which for NVidia is still third man on the totem pole. Most enthusiasts, especially on this website, have moved or are moving to at least 1440p.

In case you missed one of [H]'s latest reviews, let me recap for you:

The Now 1440p Performance

Based on our evaluation here we can conclude that 1440p is a viable playable resolution for a factory overclocked AMD Radeon RX 480 and factory overclocked GeForce GTX 1060 GPU based video card. However, do keep in mind you will not be able to play at the highest quality settings at 1440p resolution. In most games you will have to tweak down settings a notch or two. Even in the most demanding game we used here today however we never had to drop below the "High" settings for that game. If at any point we felt we would have needed to drop down to "Medium" settings, that is where 1080p would feel better in said game. Since we are able to run at "High" settings at 1440p on these video card you can make the educated assumption that at 1080p "Very High" and "Ultra" settings would be playable on these video cards. Therefore, both of these cards do offer an exceptional 1080p experience and are also able to provide a good 1440p desktop gaming experience.

How about that. Sure looks like [H] agrees with my assessment that the RX480 is "plenty good" for 1080P and "decent" for 1440P.

 

[razor1]

Are there numbers to show that overall GPU sales were down? None were provided.

JPR, Mercury, both showed this last quarter, volume was down 20% nV took the entire brunt of the seasonal weakness, Q2 for many years has been week for GPU sales.

nV's quarterly sales Q2 2016 went from ~9 million sales down to ~6 million sales. AMD quarter sales went from ~2.7 went up to ~2.8, pretty much flat.

Now with a 3% increase in margins which is what nV stated this quarter, its easy to figure out, they gained that 3 million lost volume back this quarter. We have two variables in a single formula, all that needs to be done is a little bit of calculus to figure them out (it won't be exact but it will come out close)

PS there are one assumption that I have taken is total sales volume for the entire discrete graphics sales (peak) is level, which going by history has been level, there has been no growth in total graphics sales in years.

 

[rgMekanic]

So why are you buying AMD products? Shouldn't you be buying something else then. Matrox or something? Dont tell me you dont like Nvidia but then pick a company who lied straight out for 10 years and deceived its fans just as long in the CPU segment. And the same is applied for graphics now for the last few years or longer.

I'd happily run Matrox or 3dFX or whatever comes around thats competitive and not NV.

Marketing wank to try and get people hyped for your product isn't the same as straight out lying. Not gonna get much excitement if you launch with "It's not as good as these guys' stuff, BUT WE TRIED REALLY HARD!"

The last NV card I owned was in 2003, which is when I found this website, when Kyle uncovered the 3dmark cheat in the drivers.
Follow that with Agea, and the lies on what they were going to do with PhysX
The 970 scandal
Gameworks fucking everyone
G-Sync
Driver gimping accusations
$1500 video card because fuck you.
Patent infringements, then try to sue the people who's patent you're infringing on.

Not someone I want to give my money to.