![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
-
Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.
AMD, Where Are You?
- Thread starter atom
- Start date
- Status
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2011
- Messages
- 10,180
Well, there is hardly a duopoly going on here. Duopoly implies the two competitors are evenly matched, or at least close, like coke/pepsi.
no duopoly implies they are not competitors at all, maybe they are even bff?
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2011
- Messages
- 10,180
Well, an industry with two competitors who are not competing is a form of trust, but I'm not sure if that may or may not also be a duopoly: I'm not a super expert. However it is a sad state of affairs when the definitions of various economic statuses is more interesting than what AMD is doing... in it's own thread.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2009
- Messages
- 11,556
Can't put stock prices in your PC.
People want hardware in this forum. Stock tips are down the hall.
Yep no need to waste a completely good brand name
And guys FuryX is not a shinning example of a good product, 9 months late, AIO was a must (without it its GPU temps would not have been at 50C more like 90C that would have put it over the 300 watt thermal envelope, now way around that and in all likelihood it would be much higher because of the next point), its frequency and voltages were pushed way above ideal ranges of the chip which means leakage was no longer in a controlled range so power consumption based on temp would be greater that 1 to 1 ratio. Seems to be a habit of AMD, Polaris, same thing, r390 same thing, r290 same thing. Then top it off with 4GB of vram, which might get in its way very soon you won't be able to use it at the same settings as a 980ti let alone a 1070 well there ya have it.
If you are ok with AMD coming out with maxed out chips that is your prerogative, but that isn't what OEM's are looking for. Staying in the ideal range of a chips power usage is always best for the longevity of the chip too. So if AMD wants to be successful they can't keep doing things like this., and if you want AMD to be successful, ask them to do start designing their chips differently because right now, its not working for them.
Last edited:
So you took my reply to 4 different things made it about stock prices. Kudos to you. You are right we can't put stock prices in pc atleast not literally. But it still helps a company survive in general no? If amd does better financially does it not mean that they can invest that money more in r&d. So in a way that stock price does better a company in the long run. So to say stock prices don't matter for a company is just sort of non sense.
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2008
- Messages
- 6,617
AMD just capitalized on their stock price when they ugh... so yea, the stock price certainly made a difference lol.
News Release | Investor Relations | AMD
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2009
- Messages
- 11,556
I'll keep checking back over the years to see how this works out.
All indicators, online sales numbers, review numbers, Steam survey numbers all show the same thing, RX480 (the entire Polaris line actually) is getting slaughtered in sales right now, they can't keep them on the shelves because AMD has supply issues
AMD stock price tripled because there was no where to go but up and what the board has been doing and the "possibility" of zen is good for the company, their graphics division has very little to do with it ("possibility" is quotes is just that we don't know nor do investors know what the outcome will be) I just cashed out when it went above 7 last week, because too much of a good thing is always a rebound effect, and also kinda knew they were going to address additional shares which will make investors nervous and with the election coming up not worth being in the market till that is over.
agreed with the third part it seems right but lets wait and see for this quarter to end before we make that final judgement, it could be they haven't moved much at all. Keep this in mind, if their bottom line increases by 25 million this quarter, its not because of their product sales, its because the amount of loan interest has decreased by that amount. Which is good for AMD but it also means they haven't budged in the marketplace, which is not good for AMD and its product stack.
NKD, the stock price increase is only because AMD's stock was undervalued and any good news would help it rebound. It speaks to the possibility of AMD's health, but AMD has to produce good results for Zen for it to stay that way, if not, it will go back down to a lower point then when it started from. Without a good competitive part in the CPU side (doesn't need to be at the top end but at least the mainstream desktop parts), AMD is done for, their graphics division can't keep the CPU side afloat, just not enough cash coming in on the GPU side to fuel operations and R&D on both sides. The only way they can do that is if they get their GPU marketshare for an entire year above 40% again, with 40% margins, both aren't any where near those numbers yet.
Last edited:
Yeah diluting shares isn't the best way to keep a company healthy though lol, but for AMD's situation it does reduce debt, which is good for them in short term as it drops their interest payments, but in the long run it could hurt them as well because typically what it does is it drops the EPS, earnings per share and this in turn might drop its growth potential of the stock, it is one of the two main metrics investors use to give indicators of the health of a company, although I personally use many more indicators then the two, the other being revenue.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
- Messages
- 7,367
Nvidia sells more cards than AMD....yea ok now im never buying AMD cards again.........everybody join the nvidia cheerleader team for now on lol!!! AMD seems to be selling as many as they make so im sure it could be much much worse for them. Honestly some of us here dont give a flying fuck how many more cards nvidia sells compared to AMD. That part just doesnt interest me...
I wonder who sells more GPU's? AMD or Nvidia? Count all the consoles out there that is a lot of GPU's. Also include the APU's - even more. Nvidia has the PC space pretty solidly but that looks like it is eroding somewhat. Just the PS4 there are over 40 million units sold (AMD CPU, GPU, Chipset . . .) - has Nvidia sold that many graphics cards since the PS4 was launched? Then add XBox1 into the mix.
Fiji line of cards almost looks more of an experiment and to setup production for the real HBM cards and that will be Vega. Too bad we have to wait in order to see how they perform - except why wait at all if you can right now get big gains and modern features buying from Nvidia? Each their own.
Fiji line of cards almost looks more of an experiment and to setup production for the real HBM cards and that will be Vega. Too bad we have to wait in order to see how they perform - except why wait at all if you can right now get big gains and modern features buying from Nvidia? Each their own.
I can second that lol.
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2011
- Messages
- 10,180
It should. Its a predictive science. It may not change your decision on what card to buy right now. But how well AMD is doing as a company has greatly affected the competitiveness of their products (and vice versa). Essentially, a struggling AMD is less likely to put out a great product that you would be interested to buy in the future.
Dayaks
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2012
- Messages
- 10,289
And their ability to support your product you buy now in the future. For example, their shitty performance in VR may have a correlation to the amount of $$$ they have to spend.
Shintai
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,677
Nvidia still sells more. Nvidia sells around 30-35 million dGPUs per year. Not counting their SoCs.
Vega is just Fiji 2.0. Nothing different as such. The only thing that went wrong with Fiji from AMDs side was the lack of 8hi stacks, so it got limited to 4GB. Else there was no experiment at all. Same with Polaris. You simply see all they got and can do with their R&D. And its a downward trend.
I really want AMD to turn it around, pull another "Athlon 64" and the 5900 / 7900 series out of the darkness again. The competition then was wonderful for everyone.
While the 4 series is an improvement and I am still tempted by the potential 490 I buy the best bang for my buck at the time I am ready to buy. So 1080Ti or 490. Fury looked cool just way to much money for the performance returns compared to other options.
When I built this system I planned to keep my 7970 but it needs to be replaced now. This is my first Intel CPU since the P3 that I have had. I'm about to redo my parents PC replacing a wonderful 550 with an i5. Just no options from AMD to deliver what I need at a good price that will have the same staying power.
We need AMD and I don't see them going anywhere. I just hope they can get something really competitive out there to climb back up and feed their R&D again.
While the 4 series is an improvement and I am still tempted by the potential 490 I buy the best bang for my buck at the time I am ready to buy. So 1080Ti or 490. Fury looked cool just way to much money for the performance returns compared to other options.
When I built this system I planned to keep my 7970 but it needs to be replaced now. This is my first Intel CPU since the P3 that I have had. I'm about to redo my parents PC replacing a wonderful 550 with an i5. Just no options from AMD to deliver what I need at a good price that will have the same staying power.
We need AMD and I don't see them going anywhere. I just hope they can get something really competitive out there to climb back up and feed their R&D again.
, Vega is Fiji 2 - Well I hope not. Biggest issue with Fiji is the 4gb ram closely followed by upper clock limits and power. Still great performers just be very mindful of the 4GB limitations.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Messages
- 11,934
nonsense.
Stocks can always go up, down, trend the same, or become worthless. There is no only up - no matter who the company. I've had a couple of my personal picks completely fail and lost everything I invested in them. Companies I thought too surely there is no downside.
As to the second snip.
You realize they have both consoles locked up this generation and likely next gen. (10s of millions of guaranteed sales). They could limp on for a LONG time without going up or outright failing if Zen doesn't meet hopes.
After playing tech stock for 10 years or so I think this latest jump was on the RX480 successful reception, usually from my observations hype and expectation leading to stock price jumps for tech chips from AMD, INTEL, Nvidia, and formerly ATI all occurred after engineering samples were released publically and benchmarked well, or very shortly after successful product launch. You could count on it. I think the AMD RX480 was well received and we haven't seen the Zen boost yet (assuming it does well in samples).
The biggest downward trend is Nvidia and the way they treat their customers. Planned obsolescence schemes (Kepler), "Founders Edition" ripoffs, 3.5GB + 0.5GB memory architectures, $1000 pricetags, etc. It's little wonder that AMD is rebounding.
Consoles can't keep them afloat, they have had both consoles for how long now, and have they been in the black since they had them? Yeah keeping them afloat? what are they a life jacket or lead weight? Lead weights right now.
RX480 had nothing to do with stock price, at least that we know of yet. So you perception of 10 years in the tech stocks, is BS, I suggest you go back to school for finance or business again and learn about the stock market.
We don't know shit about Zen either. Its all speculation right now. You don't know how the market works, its not the small guys like us that push stock prices up, its the large investment firms that push the the stock price up based on speculation and that is all we got right now from AMD is speculation, abet Zen does look good for AMD. And this is all speculation till we can really see what AMD showed us, with the data break down of Zen vs other chips.
Polaris we will know what the market figures are like end of this month but it really isn't looking good for Polaris right now.
And no you don't know the market if you stated
"Stocks can always go up, down, trend the same, or become worthless. There is no only up "
The value of AMD's IP and assets were more then the stock price was worth, that is why there was no way to go but up. It was undervalued to the to tune of 50% again all on things that were happening for the past few years. Actually if AMD didn't have its debt, it would have been a perfect company for hostile take over. If you don't know how that works and why that is, look it up.
PS I worked for large investment banks in the past, and have worked on financial models for traders, I kinda know what I'm talking about here because speculation is built into those models, of course the traders have control over those variables so when something goes wrong or doesn't look right, I got called in to adjust the model.
Have seen it time and time again, speculation driving the price up by investment banks, smaller guys like us jump aboard, push up the stock price higher last few % small amount, and then more fuel from the smaller banks and hedge funds push it a bit more, then the investment banks pull out and the stock goes back down. Pretty much a pump and dump but in this case, we are only looking at a 2 point spread 5 bucks is a good target price after you remove speculation out of the equation. If Zen isn't up to the task at helping AMD, its going to be much worse then that.
Last edited:
Shintai
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,677
You got a few points wrong, including AMDs "rebound". Its on a fast track for a 15/85 split in Nvidias favour. GTX 1080 alone have pretty much sold as much as Polaris 10+11. That means 460+470+480.
And when Polygon throughput holds AMD back, which it is already we see games coming out now be affected by this on GCN 1.2 cards and lower, they will be future proof
.The funny part about this, it wasn't even planned obsolescence on AMD's part, it will happen all of a sudden on newer game, pretty much a wall where is its going to be clearly defined as failing.
Last edited:
Source? Forgetting about the IP V9 too I see. Its a different architecture that uses the same amount of SP as Fiji. I see you correlated HBM and 4096 SP and called it Fiji 2.0.
What a great way to state a fact I must say.
Vega has basically been delayed and I think NAVI is kind of being wrapped together with Vega for a better launch. I am not holding my breath because when ever AMD delays its normally a complete failure of a product.
Same team working on the same products in such a short time line, not a different architecture revision of that current architecture and the amount of time points to not that many changes.
The IP is totally baseless to go on, looks to be arbitrary actually, Just look why did the IP change from Hawaii to Tonga? Features wise they are very close out side of color compression, and why didn't the IP change from Tonga/Fiji to Polaris, the front end changes were pretty significant but they changed the IP for Vega. Doesn't seem to have any correlation to anything, at least for us to judge upon.
Edit, actually it looks to be "new" features added into the architecture that is why the IP changes, hmm I'm guessing DX12.1 features for now.
Last edited:
So if Vega blows away Pascal and Volta turns out to be some distance off you can't see -> Means you will buy an AMD card next round right?
Shintai
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,677
AMD haven't delivered anything big in terms of graphics IP since the first GCN. And each revision always gets hyped as the next great thing that fixes it all. but all this shouldn't be a surprise. R&D budget you know. Tonga and Fiji was IP V8 for example and what did that do.
Look at Tahiti(280X), Tonga(380X) and Polaris 10 (RX 470). Normalize clock and they pretty much perform exactly the same.
Vega isn't delayed. Only if you was a fool enough to believe release date was October.
Last edited:
If it blows it away, yeah for my gaming rig but I can't do my work without nV cards, CUDA, so my dev rig is stuck with CUDA based cards for now.
I just can't see AMD doing that with Vega, the possibilities are just not there. nV didn't screw up, they actually got a lot better, and AMD hasn't really shown anything in Polaris that would give me hope for Vega to really push me to their marketing ways lol.
And when you start seeing tweets for Vega launch presentation venue and celebrating its tape out like its a big thing, those are not for use those are for investors and to fool them and us Vega is something great. Sorry but no company does things like that when their product is still the minimum 2 q's away, its just hype.
The first thing the venue, I was like WTF really a derelict warehouse lol, are they setting up the theme for Vega's launch too?
The second thing the tape out, that is in the course of the doing the work, nothing special about that, doesn't give insight into anything because we already knew the launch date was early 2017, the tapeout must occur 2 Q's before that lol. And that is a great thing for this engineering team? Man lots of parties for things they do on a regular occasion.
Last edited:
Shintai
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,677
Hello capsaicin event!
Yeah get drunk be happy and wait for the truth to come out lol then at least we got a free day of drinking on the company's expense before upper management bends us over lol. At least the pain will be less.
I didn't think it was October, but I also didn't think it was 1H 2017... which could be 8 months out.
Vega is delayed in the sense AMD gave away an entire generation of performance and enthusiast segments away, those reasons we probably will never know (well if its a bad launch then we will know). AMD didn't want to just give those market segments away, something stopped them for doing what they normally do. Node maturity could be there, attaining the proper clock speeds with good enough yields due to the maturity of the node. We can speculate till when ever. Doesn't matter, what matters is Pascal is reaping the profits, and AMD is stuck in a rut. AMD's targets for Vega, would have been set well before they saw Pascal, if Pascal surprised them when they were looking at Polaris, which it definitely did because they had to push Polaris to the max on voltage again, that means Vega, there is a possibility they are in trouble here because they can't readjust those targets much after the design is complete and when Pascal was launch, Vega's design was near completion (1Q)
Shintai
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,677
I would guess the reason is they simply couldn't afford the IC designs. RTG is completely starved.
Vulkan and FreeSync come to mind pretty easily. Not to mention that current Nvidia cards are more optimized for DX11 than DX12 whereas AMD cards do better in DX12 than DX11. Hell, Nvidia has gone backwards now by eliminating 3 and 4-way SLI.
Man, this thread turned into a Shintai/razor1 pro-Nvidia circle-jerk in a hurry.
I don't know, have you look at Deus Ex Mankind Divided DX12? Shit is a mess for both vendor or GOW 4 where nVidia is doing better in DX12 than AMD?
Of course there are going to be games that run like crap in both camps. That's nothing new. And there will naturally be some game engines that favor one architecture over the other. But in general, from most articles I've read, GCN is better suited for DX12 than Pascal.
Shintai
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,677
Newer released games says no. It was based nothing more on a PR myth, game sponsorship and AMDs lack buster DX11 driver that they are now finally making improvements to.
Last edited:
- Status