AMD shows of Fluid Motion Frames (AFMF), FG tech that works for all DX11/DX12 games

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Marees

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Creating a separate thread for this particular Frame Generation tech as this is different from FSR 3


https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...-3-tech-and-frame-gen-for-every-dx11dx12-game


This is using optical flow only. No motion vector input from FSR 2 means that the best AFMF can do is interpolate a new frame between two standard rendered frames similar to the way a TV does it - albeit with far less latency. The generated frames will be 'coarser' without the motion vector data but the effectiveness of those frames will scale according to content and the base frame-rate. A slower moving game, for example, makes it easier to interpolate content as there is less difference between the two standard rendered frames. Meanwhile, the higher the base frame-rate, the less time a generated frame persists on-screen - with the lower quality interpolated frames 'strobing' between standard rendered frames. Typically, all frame-gen solutions benefit from higher base frame-rates, but this is especially important with AMFS.


AFMF is intended to be run on games that are already able to hit a smooth frame-rate (70fps, for instance), with the goal of maxing out a 120Hz or 144Hz panel, with higher frame-rates resulting in higher image quality, for the reasons previously stated. Similar to the Radeon Boost driver-level dynamic resolution scaling feature, the tech is automatically disabled in response to rapid mouse movement, presumably to prevent obvious visual anomalies that will occur in frame generation when the two source frames have so little in common.


it's another feature available to gamers that'll find utility on high refresh rate screens, which are basically the norm in the PC market these days. AMD is perfectly clear about the strengths and weaknesses of AFMF and at the very least, RDNA 3 users will have a fascinating new tool to experiment with. At best, you have an 'after-market' frame generation solution that could work really well on a huge number of games. Then there's the Asus ROG Ally - a handheld with RDNA 3 graphics and a 120Hz VRR screen, where the artefacts could well be far less noticeable.


erek said:
Ooo

“In addition to the Radeon RX 7800 XT and RX 7700 XT graphics cards, AMD announced FidelityFX Super Resolution 3 Fluid Motion (FSR 3 Fluid Motion), the company's performance enhancement that's designed to rival NVIDIA DLSS 3 Frame Generation. The biggest piece of news here, is that unlike DLSS 3, which is restricted to GeForce RTX 40-series "Ada," FSR 3 enjoys the same kind of cross-brand hardware support as FSR 2. It works on the latest Radeon RX 7000 series, as well as previous-generation RX 6000 series RDNA2 graphics cards, as well as NVIDIA GeForce RTX 40-series, RTX 30-series, and RTX 20-series. It might even be possible to use FSR 3 with Arc A-series, although AMD wouldn't confirm it.

FSR 3 Fluid Motion is a frame-rate doubling technology that generates alternate frames by estimating an intermediate between two frames rendered by the GPU (which is essentially what DLSS 3 is). The company did not detail the underlying technology behind FSR 3 in its pre-briefing, but showed an example of FSR 3 implemented on "Forspoken," where the game puts out 36 FPS at 4K native resolution, is able to run at 122 FPS with FSR 3 "performance" preset (upscaling + Fluid Motion + Anti-Lag). At 1440p native, with ultra-high RT, "Forspoken" puts out 64 FPS, which nearly doubles to 106 FPS without upscaling (native resolution) + Fluid Motion frames + Anti-Lag. The Maximum Fidelity preset of FSR 3 is essentially AMD's version of DLAA (to use the detail regeneration and AA features of FSR without dropping down resolution).”

https://www.techpowerup.com/312786/...motion-rivaling-dlss-3-broad-hardware-support
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AMD to integrate Fluid Motion Frames into HYPR-RX, one-click solution with frame generation for all DX11/12 games


https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-to-...n-with-frame-generation-for-all-dx11-12-games


Officially this technology will launch in the first half of September, and it will be part of the latest Adrenalin GPU driver update.

The HYPR-RX integrated three technologies into one easy to use one-click solution: Anti-Lag+, Radeon Boost and Radeon Super Resolution. The latter has now been confirmed to be supported by Frame Generation, or how AMD calls it AMD Fluid Motion Frames (AFMF).
 
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ok, liking what I am reading. However, what about the amd cool feature? I use it exclusivley to limit the frame rate to 120 fps and it helps alot to keep the gpu quieter. I bring this up because its usually forbidden to use this along with anti-lag and boost.
 
Rev. Night said:
ok, liking what I am reading. However, what about the amd cool feature? I use it exclusivley to limit the frame rate to 120 fps and it helps alot to keep the gpu quieter. I bring this up because its usually forbidden to use this along with anti-lag and boost.
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Good question. It will be interesting to see if all of this also allows Chill to be used at the same time.
 
Generic Frame Generation for any DX11 / 12 game on Radeon? Let's freaking gooooooooo

A note on the availability tho- the rest of Hypr-RX is "allegedly" launching "soon" in "September" but without Fluid Motion Frames, which will be added "around" "Q1" of "next year" (scare quotes for emphasis)
 
Rev. Night said:
ok, liking what I am reading. However, what about the amd cool feature? I use it exclusivley to limit the frame rate to 120 fps and it helps alot to keep the gpu quieter. I bring this up because its usually forbidden to use this along with anti-lag and boost.
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TrunksZero said:
Good question. It will be interesting to see if all of this also allows Chill to be used at the same time.
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I am guessing you choose between 1 of the 2.

Either Chill or AFMF
 
Yeah I like this working backwards, it’s almost console like.
Let FSR do its thing automatically so it can maintain 60, 72, 83 raw and then let it interpolate automatically to match the displays native frame rate. Better solution than VSync, and easier to deal with than FreeSync and such.
 
Now show it in motion. FSR 2 is known for it's poor handling of moving images, hence why DLSS 2 eats it's lunch.

Early on when RSR was first released I loved the idea of having a built in FSR that I could use in case of emergency--I learned soon after it wasn't all that good, at least when compared to a proper FSR implementation. So, I can't see the driver version of AFMF being used often.

It's nice to see AMD cut the cord on older GPU's with Hypr-RX and give their newer hardware that feature that separates them from the rest of the AMD line-up. It's just unfortunate that they're still having to copy Nvidia, no matter what anyone says, with their "Native AA" and "AFMF." I honestly hope AMD see's some success with this. Bring on the reviews.
 
Usual_suspect said:
Now show it in motion. FSR 2 is known for it's poor handling of moving images, hence why DLSS 2 eats it's lunch.

Early on when RSR was first released I loved the idea of having a built in FSR that I could use in case of emergency--I learned soon after it wasn't all that good, at least when compared to a proper FSR implementation. So, I can't see the driver version of AFMF being used often.

It's nice to see AMD cut the cord on older GPU's with Hypr-RX and give their newer hardware that feature that separates them from the rest of the AMD line-up. It's just unfortunate that they're still having to copy Nvidia, no matter what anyone says, with their "Native AA" and "AFMF." I honestly hope AMD see's some success with this. Bring on the reviews.
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Yeah, without motion vectors it may not look very good. Still, I'm glad to see them introducing it... Bring on the frame generation wars!
 

Hypr-RX: Launching September 6th​

Second up, we have Hypr-RX. AMD’s smorgasbord feature combines the company’s Radeon Super Resolution (spatial upscaling), Radeon Anti-Lag+ (frame queue management), and Radeon Boost (dynamic resolution scaling).

All three technologies are already available in AMD’s drivers today, however they can’t all currently be used together. Super Resolution and Boost both touch the rendering resolution of a game, and Anti-Lag steps on the toes of Boost’s dynamic resolution adjustments.

Hypr-RX, in turn, is designed to bring all three technologies together to make them compatible with one another, and to put the collective set of features behind a single toggle. In short, if you turn on Hypr-RX, AMD’s drivers will use all of the tricks available to improve game performance.

Hypr-RX requires an RDNA 3 GPU, meaning it’s only available for Radeon RX 7000 video cards as well as the Ryzen Mobile 7040HS CPU family.

with FSR 3 and its frame interpolation abilities soon to become available, AMD won’t be stopping there for Hypr-RX. The next item on AMD’s to-do list is to add Fluid Motion Frame support to Hypr-RX, allowing AMD’s drivers to use frame interpolation (frame generation) to further improve game performance.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/2003...ter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow
 
GoldenTiger said:
Yeah, without motion vectors it may not look very good. Still, I'm glad to see them introducing it... Bring on the frame generation wars!
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It will be interesting to see and a bit fun that it can be turned on almost globally. FSR did wonders for Steamdeck. Sure, there might be somethings not optimal, like with current frame generation from Nvidia, but it looked good if only to judge on the videos AMD showed on stage with it in action.

Brings new life to old hardware for the largest portion of gamers, so if its viable, even with some sacrifices, it might extend the life for many in the gaming community that cannot always buy the latest and greatest. A lot of gamers with GTX 1060s and even older cards got great benefits from FSR. People can say what they wish, positive or negative, about AMDs motives with supporting even competitiors cards. The benefit for gamers have been real regardless of AMDs intentions with FSR.

Sad that AMDs new anti-lag+ is supported on only 7XXX series and up it seems. They mentioned they didnt give up to bring it to older series too, but for now its reliant on 7XXX series.

I understand the anger towards developers making DLSS and FSR upscaling a requirement, but besides that, I like Nvidia and AMD finding options and choices for gamers to get more out of their cards. :)

I would prefer a common standard for everyone and even more it becoming open source. Not a chance in hell that would happen, but would have been great!
 
Lakados said:
Sort of? AMD’s notes say it need to work off at least a 60fps base. So 946p upscaling for “performance” mode then being frame doubled for 120fps sure.
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AMD's own slide shows going from 36 FPS to 122 FPS, so maybe?

1692995306471.png
 
Armenius said:
This will probably be a real boon for consoles, where games have recently been shown to struggle with even maintaining 30 FPS at low rendering resolution.
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You probably mean more FSR 3 than AFMF (if I understand the distinction, correctly).

This seem to be pure interpolation and really need the frame to be close to each others, like they say more for a 70 fps to 120 than 30 to 60 affairs and it is nice for already released games.

Consoles with the low amount of SKUs can optimize and use FSR 3 instead. Maybe to rapidly enable 120 hz on the already released 60 fps performance mode too.

Armenius said:
AMD's own slide shows going from 36 FPS to 122 FPS, so maybe?
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36 was with no upscaling, console games would already be easy upscaling.

I imagine it was reducing by half or so the resolution going to 65-70 fps then adding interpolated frame to jump to 122
 
LukeTbk said:
You probably mean more FSR 3 than AFMF (if I understand the distinction, correctly).

This seem to be pure interpolation and really need the frame to be close to each others, like they say more for a 70 fps to 120 than 30 to 60 affairs and it is nice for already released games.

Consoles with the low amount of SKUs can optimize and use FSR 3 instead. Maybe to rapidly enable 120 hz on the already released 60 fps performance mode too.
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The slide above explicitly says "AMD Fluid Motion Frames."
 
Armenius said:
The slide above explicitly says "AMD Fluid Motion Frames."
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Not sure which you are talking about but it has FSR 3 has well the superior motion frames, it is a bit like the nvidia Reflex in nvidia setting versus the one enabled in game.

And I can be all mistake by the marketing technology but my understanding:

- Fluid Motion Frames will operate at a driver level, eliminating the need for game developer optimizations, inferior quality but can work with all Dx11-DX12 already released
- FSR 3, using FSR 2 motion vector technique to the adding frames process superior quality.

On the console side, when you know that 100% of your user can support FSR 3 and probably want FSR 2 to do the upscaling instead of FSR 1, you will almost always go with FSR 3 instead.
 
Marees said:
This tech will be good for 120hz handheld displays with RDNA 3 /RDNA 3.5 such as Asus Rog Ally !!
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Lets hope its useful enough. AMD seemed excited about it at least. And, lets hope Valve gets it into their SteamOS and gets proper Nvidia support for SteamOS soon. I tried ChimeraOS on older hardware (8700K and GTX 1080 first, then with RTX 2080 TI) for fun. Had to use Intel iGPU for Gamescope and Nvidia GPU for renderer. Was a great experience until an update broke it and it was too annoying to fix, so I bought new hardware to make a new SteamOS console.

I think SteamOS can be a great way to repurpose old hardware and with some love for Nvidia cards from Valve, combined with more upscaling methods, lots of gamers can enjoy their games library on the TV with a good console experience after upgrading their main build.

Many complain about upscaling, but there is great potential for many with it.
 
LukeTbk said:
On the console side, when you know that 100% of your user can support FSR 3 and probably want FSR 2 to do the upscaling instead of FSR 1, you will almost always go with FSR 3 instead.
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Lets just hope this doesn´t end with being partially a vendor lock porting those games, where you get less performance or features on an Nvidia card or Intel card, because it doesn´t support AMDs secret sauce for some FSR 3 features to make it viable. We dont need more of that.
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
Lets hope its useful enough. AMD seemed excited about it at least. And, lets hope Valve gets it into their SteamOS and gets proper Nvidia support for SteamOS soon. I tried ChimeraOS on older hardware (8700K and GTX 1080 first, then with RTX 2080 TI) for fun. Had to use Intel iGPU for Gamescope and Nvidia GPU for renderer. Was a great experience until an update broke it and it was too annoying to fix, so I bought new hardware to make a new SteamOS console.

I think SteamOS can be a great way to repurpose old hardware and with some love for Nvidia cards from Valve, combined with more upscaling methods, lots of gamers can enjoy their games library on the TV with a good console experience after upgrading their main build.

Many complain about upscaling, but there is great potential for many with it.
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Not about "Valve" giving nVidia some love. nVidia's support for Linux is kinda terrible.
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
Lets just hope this doesn´t end with being partially a vendor lock porting those games, where you get less performance or features on an Nvidia card or Intel card, because it doesn´t support AMDs secret sauce for some FSR 3 features to make it viable. We dont need more of that.
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Yeah, because nVidia hasn't vendor locked their technology so far.
 
Lakados said:
As an operator of many Linux servers that run Nvidia hardware I have to completely disagree.

You may be confusing Opensource with Support, but NVidia’s support for their closed source drivers is pretty bang on.
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Servers and enterprise grade stuff is a different beast entirely. On the consumer side though for gaming on Linux... GeForce hardware isn't really preferred. And getting it better is down to nVidia making the driver experience better... not Valve.
 
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LukeTbk said:
https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...-3-tech-and-frame-gen-for-every-dx11dx12-game

According to digital foundry this AFMF is rdna 3 only while FSR 3 is available more broadly. That is quite counter-intuitive
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Well, FSR3 has an easier task to do since it can largely rely on motion vector inputs from the game engine (assisted by optical flow generated vectors), while AFMF must entirely rely on motion vectors generated via optical flow. There's likely a higher processing cost for AFMF and (speculation) they could be relying on the "AI Accelerators" (I wish there were a better name) on RDNA3 cards to help instead of solely using up Async Compute cycles like FSR3.
 
It seems AMD is looking at all the bad ideas Nvidia has and is trying their best to copy them. Why RDNA3 only? What exactly does RDNA3 have that RDNA2 and RDNA1 doesn't have?
 
DukenukemX said:
It seems AMD is looking at all the bad ideas Nvidia has and is trying their best to copy them. Why RDNA3 only? What exactly does RDNA3 have that RDNA2 and RDNA1 doesn't have?
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Matrix Accelerators and Dual-Issue SIMD cores.

Could also just be artificial segmentation, but I have a feeling AMD is relying on the higher compute throughput of RDNA3 to generate accurate optical flow fast enough for realtime low-latency interpolation with no motion vector inputs from the game engine.
 
NattyKathy said:
Could also just be artificial segmentation,
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Does not feel like it, the superior solution being widely available and the inferior RDNA 3 only, probably in line with your idea.
Lakados said:
Let FSR do its thing automatically so it can maintain 60, 72, 83 raw and then let it interpolate automatically to match the displays native frame rate. Better solution than VSync, and easier to deal with than FreeSync and such.
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Maybe one day, but AFMF seem to be highly vsync recommanded by AMD and does not seem to support VRR.

Digital foundry gave some details of the presentation:
So, how does FSR 3 look? At Gamescom, we had a demonstration of both titles running with the new technology active on a Radeon 7900 XTX running at 4K output. Both were running with v-sync on, which AMD recommends for frame-pacing purposes.
However, despite running on a VRR screen, the game presented like standard v-sync, meaning that dropped frames were more noticeable with typical v-sync stutter. A frame-time counter in the top-right of the screen did seem to suggest that frames were being presented as they would in a normal v-sync presentation even though the demo was using a VRR-capable screen. Even so, the quality was clearly evident.
AFMF seem to be a vsync off affair for the moment but will be included in the future:
The Last of Us Part 1 running at circa-160fps and higher, albeit with v-sync off, so there was screen-tearing (we suspect this is because it was running outside of the screen's VRR range). Right now, AFMF works with v-sync off, but AMD is looking to add v-sync support.
 
VRR being variable refresh rate? Man so we get a shit ton more frames but we can't use our promised vrr monitors? Are we back in 1999 with screen tearing galore?

V sync introduce latency. How does this fit in with anti lag?
 
LukeTbk said:
Maybe one day, but AFMF seem to be highly vsync recommanded by AMD and does not seem to support VRR.

Digital foundry gave some details of the presentation:
So, how does FSR 3 look? At Gamescom, we had a demonstration of both titles running with the new technology active on a Radeon 7900 XTX running at 4K output. Both were running with v-sync on, which AMD recommends for frame-pacing purposes.
However, despite running on a VRR screen, the game presented like standard v-sync, meaning that dropped frames were more noticeable with typical v-sync stutter. A frame-time counter in the top-right of the screen did seem to suggest that frames were being presented as they would in a normal v-sync presentation even though the demo was using a VRR-capable screen. Even so, the quality was clearly evident.
AFMF seem to be a vsync off affair for the moment but will be included in the future:
The Last of Us Part 1 running at circa-160fps and higher, albeit with v-sync off, so there was screen-tearing (we suspect this is because it was running outside of the screen's VRR range). Right now, AFMF works with v-sync off, but AMD is looking to add v-sync support.
Click to expand...

Which is kinda funny. As Frame Generation from nVidia at first didn't support v-sync properly.

But this is basically a teaser look. It will be interesting to see how it actually works when it either gets released or more details come out.
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
Lets hope its useful enough. AMD seemed excited about it at least. And, lets hope Valve gets it into their SteamOS and gets proper Nvidia support for SteamOS soon. I tried ChimeraOS on older hardware (8700K and GTX 1080 first, then with RTX 2080 TI) for fun. Had to use Intel iGPU for Gamescope and Nvidia GPU for renderer. Was a great experience until an update broke it and it was too annoying to fix, so I bought new hardware to make a new SteamOS console.

I think SteamOS can be a great way to repurpose old hardware and with some love for Nvidia cards from Valve, combined with more upscaling methods, lots of gamers can enjoy their games library on the TV with a good console experience after upgrading their main build.

Many complain about upscaling, but there is great potential for many with it.
Click to expand...
Proper support for Nvidia in Linux. Is not on Valve.

Its on Nvidia who do not provide proper open source drivers... and have always been a PITA, and openly hostile to the open source community. Nvidia would have wonderful Linux support if Nvidia actually open sourced their Linux drivers back at the same time AMD open sourced their Linux drivers (8 YEARS ago). Making it worse they started a war over how 2D was displayed on their hardware with the Wayland team that held development up for ages.

Frankly almost no one is willing to do work for free for Nvidia. AMD and Intel don't have that problem... both have directly supported open source development and developer communities for years. Nvidia recently has started going on about open sourcing things but nothing they have done so far actually is. Open sourcing some wrapper to their proprietary bits doesn't count... and will in no way entice a big Linux spender like Valve to drop 100s of thousands on Nvidia support as they have for AMD hardware.

NVDA is a 4 letter word in the Linux world. Which is 100% an Nvidia is staffed by assholes issue.

Having said all that you can run your own Arch Linux install... SteamOS isn't really all that special. You can use Nvidia hardware with their proprietary drivers with no real issue. Game support isn't much different from AMD hardware. AMD hardware just means you don't have to bolt proprietary drivers to your kernel every time the kernel gets updated. Its just a much smoother experience in terms of updates.
 
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