AMD Ryzen Threadripper 7000 Series Lineup Revealed

Zarathustra[H] said:
I thought 128MB WAS a huge L3 cache, and then I looked up the EPYC X chips.

768MB? Holy mother of God.

If I had to guess it has something to do with price? Those EPYC chips are like $8k
Click to expand...

It looks like AMD has no scruples wrt the price.

According to phoronix.com the X EPYC chips do very well in technical/scientific workloads. So I think that would fit many things Threadripper is attractive for.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I thought 128MB WAS a huge L3 cache, and then I looked up the EPYC X chips.

768MB? Holy mother of God.

If I had to guess it has something to do with price? Those EPYC chips are like $8k
Click to expand...
They are not cheap chips at all, my EPIC stack hits year 5 in Nov…. So they are on the July procurement schedule…. I need 3 of the 9554’s with ram and storage to match…. I can already hear the account crying.
 
Lakados said:
They are not cheap chips at all, my EPIC stack hits year 5 in Nov…. So they are on the July procurement schedule…. I need 3 of the 9554’s with ram and storage to match…. I can already hear the account crying.
Click to expand...
Show him a monthly payment plan with low interest and I bet he won't bat an eye
 
Lakados said:
These are my first Supermicro’s in a while, got them last year and paired them up with the Xeon Silver 4316’s. hasn’t disappointed me yet, fingers crossed they don’t over the next 4 years.

Only change I may make is swapping out the Intel 2TB SSD’s for some Samsung 4 TB’s. Storage isn’t an issue yet but I’m getting close to that 70% mark. But it’s riding that line and unless I add more VM’s it won’t go past there.
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If they make a board like that for these new Threadrippers, that's what I'm buying.

I'd LOVE to not have to deal with these stupid consumer RGB gaming/raceboi boards anymore.

My current Asus ROG Zenith II Extreme Alpha is just too ridiculous.
 
Wait OMG, threadripper non pro is back? F**K Yeah. But I think I'll want to downgrade to 24 core :) to save some money. Still dammit $1500 CPU probably $1k for a MB, probably $2k for a GPU (assuming the 5090 shows up or I wait for it to show up), New PSU ATX 3.0 1200W min, 64GB min for RAM, and a huge case. Ugh I think my wallet just started screaming. It'll also be a full Linux build since I am dropping windows by 2025 so at least that's free lol.

That timed exclusive sounds like a terrible thing, but I am still kind of happy just because I thought TR was dead. Crap it sounds like I am already planning things in my head. :banghead:
 
Lakados said:
They are not cheap chips at all, my EPIC stack hits year 5 in Nov…. So they are on the July procurement schedule…. I need 3 of the 9554’s with ram and storage to match…. I can already hear the account crying.
Click to expand...
What if you procured them from eBay or some other unofficial supplier
 
erek said:
What if you procured them from eBay or some other unofficial supplier
Click to expand...
Generally, the price goes up, not worth the headache.
Besides if I source from 3'rd parties I have to worry about AMD and the Secure Platform Boot and where that CPU was sourced from.
If the source of the CPU had AMD Secure Platform Boot enabled then it pops a fuse in the CPU and that CPU is locked to that system, it's not transferable to a different one.
https://www.servethehome.com/amd-psb-vendor-locks-epyc-cpus-for-enhanced-security-at-a-cost/

So it's too much of a crap shoot dealing with 3'rd parties, got burned on that one a few years back not gonna repeat that one

Here is a statement from AMD describing the AMD Platform Secure Boot.

The AMD Platform Secure Boot Feature (PSB) is a mitigation for firmware Advanced Persistent Threats. It is a defense-in-depth feature. PSB extends AMD’s silicon root of trust to protect the OEM’s BIOS. This allows the OEM to establish an unbroken chain of trust from AMD’s silicon root of trust to the OEM’s BIOS using PSB, and then from the OEM’s BIOS to the OS Bootloader using UEFI secure boot. This provides a very powerful defense against remote attackers seeking to embed malware into a platform’s firmware.

An OEM who trusts only their own cryptographically signed BIOS code to run on their platforms will use a PSB enabled motherboard and set one-time-programmable fuses in the processor to bind the processor to the OEM’s firmware code signing key. AMD processors are shipped unlocked from the factory, and can initially be used with any OEM’s motherboard. But once they are used with a motherboard with PSB enabled, the security fuses will be set, and from that point on, that processor can only be used with motherboards that use the same code signing key.
 
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Lakados said:
Threadripper is for those who need the memory channels or the PCIe lanes, and those workloads fall into the "I make my living off this machine", and the people who know they need it generally know that those prices aren't the worst, don't get me wrong they freeking hurt, but generally the productivity increase is worth the expenditure if your existing machine is your limiting factor. But again the people who are in that situation know they are and have probably been shopping for new workstations for a while and the prices on these while painful aren't unexpected, but with the way that USB has been going and memory speeds and whatnot more people can go from a traditional HEDT solution down to a Workstation solution using the Intel or AMD stack. Intel and those weird 12,24, and 48 GB modules pack a hefty punch if you need capacity but not the channels. Many devices that were once internal PCIe devices have been replaced with USB-based ones, and Thunderbolt to PCIe docks are fast enough for many that it's not a guaranteed bottleneck, again based on the workloads.

So the HEDT market has shifted a little over the past couple of years and prices are sadly reflecting that, not happy about it but like everybody else my choices are to change how I do things or pony up the cash.
Click to expand...

I'm buying the 64-Core one to play DOTA2.
 
Lakados said:
Generally, the price goes up, not worth the headache.
Besides if I source from 3'rd parties I have to worry about AMD and the Secure Platform Boot and where that CPU was sourced from.
If the source of the CPU had AMD Secure Platform Boot enabled then it pops a fuse in the CPU and that CPU is locked to that system, it's not transferable to a different one.
https://www.servethehome.com/amd-psb-vendor-locks-epyc-cpus-for-enhanced-security-at-a-cost/

So it's too much of a crap shoot dealing with 3'rd parties, got burned on that one a few years back not gonna repeat that one

Here is a statement from AMD describing the AMD Platform Secure Boot.

The AMD Platform Secure Boot Feature (PSB) is a mitigation for firmware Advanced Persistent Threats. It is a defense-in-depth feature. PSB extends AMD’s silicon root of trust to protect the OEM’s BIOS. This allows the OEM to establish an unbroken chain of trust from AMD’s silicon root of trust to the OEM’s BIOS using PSB, and then from the OEM’s BIOS to the OS Bootloader using UEFI secure boot. This provides a very powerful defense against remote attackers seeking to embed malware into a platform’s firmware.

An OEM who trusts only their own cryptographically signed BIOS code to run on their platforms will use a PSB enabled motherboard and set one-time-programmable fuses in the processor to bind the processor to the OEM’s firmware code signing key. AMD processors are shipped unlocked from the factory, and can initially be used with any OEM’s motherboard. But once they are used with a motherboard with PSB enabled, the security fuses will be set, and from that point on, that processor can only be used with motherboards that use the same code signing key.
Click to expand...
PSB hasn’t been bypassed yet? Or what
 
erek said:
PSB hasn’t been bypassed yet? Or what
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Possibly a dumb question, but they stated "...motherboards that use the same code signing key" in the quote above, so does this mean that if you bought a Dell system with PSB enabled and the motherboard failed for whatever reason that you could replace it with another Dell motherboard since the code signing key is still Dell's?
 
MrCaffeineX said:
Possibly a dumb question, but they stated "...motherboards that use the same code signing key" in the quote above, so does this mean that if you bought a Dell system with PSB enabled and the motherboard failed for whatever reason that you could replace it with another Dell motherboard since the code signing key is still Dell's?
Click to expand...

Yes, it is a vendor lock, not a machine lock. You can get a new motherboard from the same vendor and use it in there.
 
uOpt said:
Yes, it is a vendor lock, not a machine lock. You can get a new motherboard from the same vendor and use it in there.
Click to expand...
Didn’t they used to be able to bypass lockout mechanisms with high voltage spikes ala the 10NES CICS chip? Certainly there’s a workaround
 
erek said:
Didn’t they used to be able to bypass lockout mechanisms with high voltage spikes ala the 10NES CICS chip? Certainly there’s a workaround
Click to expand...

I am not aware of any previous generation Threadripper or EPYC unlock. If there was a lot of Ebay sellers would make a lot more money (nobody buys the locked chips of course).
 
Lakados said:
Generally, the price goes up, not worth the headache.
Besides if I source from 3'rd parties I have to worry about AMD and the Secure Platform Boot and where that CPU was sourced from.
If the source of the CPU had AMD Secure Platform Boot enabled then it pops a fuse in the CPU and that CPU is locked to that system, it's not transferable to a different one.
https://www.servethehome.com/amd-psb-vendor-locks-epyc-cpus-for-enhanced-security-at-a-cost/

So it's too much of a crap shoot dealing with 3'rd parties, got burned on that one a few years back not gonna repeat that one

Here is a statement from AMD describing the AMD Platform Secure Boot.

The AMD Platform Secure Boot Feature (PSB) is a mitigation for firmware Advanced Persistent Threats. It is a defense-in-depth feature. PSB extends AMD’s silicon root of trust to protect the OEM’s BIOS. This allows the OEM to establish an unbroken chain of trust from AMD’s silicon root of trust to the OEM’s BIOS using PSB, and then from the OEM’s BIOS to the OS Bootloader using UEFI secure boot. This provides a very powerful defense against remote attackers seeking to embed malware into a platform’s firmware.

An OEM who trusts only their own cryptographically signed BIOS code to run on their platforms will use a PSB enabled motherboard and set one-time-programmable fuses in the processor to bind the processor to the OEM’s firmware code signing key. AMD processors are shipped unlocked from the factory, and can initially be used with any OEM’s motherboard. But once they are used with a motherboard with PSB enabled, the security fuses will be set, and from that point on, that processor can only be used with motherboards that use the same code signing key.
Click to expand...

That's a real pain.

What kind of attacks are they really protecting against using this methodology? I really seems more like a lock-in / lock-out market manipulation technique for the big OEM's than it does actual security, and that type of thing ought to be illegal.

All PC's, servers or not, should be using freely interchangeable parts with no proprietary lockings, ether by physical keying/design or by cryptography.

Just because dell sells you a server, doesn't mean they should be able to control what you do with that server after you have bought it. It's total bullshit.
 
uOpt said:
I am not aware of any previous generation Threadripper or EPYC unlock. If there was a lot of Ebay sellers would make a lot more money (nobody buys the locked chips of course).
Click to expand...
🤔 🧐 Hmm, I see

No wonder Enterprise is so expensive versus commodity hardware
 
erek said:
🤔 🧐 Hmm, I see

No wonder Enterprise is so expensive versus commodity hardware
Click to expand...

Well, luckily this vendor lock nonsense is still pretty limited. But it really hurts people like me who like to buy used "professional" gear. The AMD gear in that category is otherwise pretty attractive.
 
MrCaffeineX said:
Possibly a dumb question, but they stated "...motherboards that use the same code signing key" in the quote above, so does this mean that if you bought a Dell system with PSB enabled and the motherboard failed for whatever reason that you could replace it with another Dell motherboard since the code signing key is still Dell's?
Click to expand...
Then your fine.
 
I fear my time back on HEDT may be coming to an end if the prices I saw on the non-pro CPUs is true. Would have been nice to see a 16/32 at a lower price point that would have made it just a smaller step up from a Ryzen 9. More interested in the platform features than needing all them cores to start.
 
erek said:
PSB hasn’t been bypassed yet? Or what
Click to expand...
No and since it is a dedicated ARM cpu with its own OS AMD updates it frequently. It’s actually one of the major reasons AMD has been winning datacenter contracts as much as they have.
 
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Zarathustra[H] said:
That's a real pain.

What kind of attacks are they really protecting against using this methodology? I really seems more like a lock-in / lock-out market manipulation technique for the big OEM's than it does actual security, and that type of thing ought to be illegal.

All PC's, servers or not, should be using freely interchangeable parts with no proprietary lockings, ether by physical keying/design or by cryptography.

Just because dell sells you a server, doesn't mean they should be able to control what you do with that server after you have bought it. It's total bullshit.
Click to expand...
It does a really good job against things that would root the system.
But yeah it’s a big bother for the second hand market and 3’rd party ones.
 
uOpt said:
I am not aware of any previous generation Threadripper or EPYC unlock. If there was a lot of Ebay sellers would make a lot more money (nobody buys the locked chips of course).
Click to expand...
Nobody tries to buy them, I assure you they get sold all the time… GD scammers.
 
Lakados said:
Nobody tries to buy them, I assure you they get sold all the time… GD scammers.
Click to expand...

Hmm.

My server is due for an upgrade, and the last several servers, I've just picked up used Xeons and supermicro boards on eBay.

This time around I was hoping to go for an EPYC system once the prices on Milan have come down, but it sounds like that is more difficult due to this bullshit.

Any tips on how not to get burned, or is it best to avoid used EPYC's all together?

Or maybe it doesn't matter since there is the whole eBay/Paypal buyer protection anyway. If they say unlocked and it isn't, it would seem fairly straightforward to file a claim.
 
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Zarathustra[H] said:
Hmm.

My server is due for an upgrade, and the last several servers, I've just picked up used Xeons and supermicro boards on eBay.

This time around I was hoping to go for an EPYC system once the prices on Milan have come down, but it sounds like that is more difficult due to this bullshit.

Any tips on how not to get burned, or is it best to avoid used EPYC's all together?
Click to expand...
In my opinion, that's where Threadripper comes in, EPYCs are beasts, they have some serious number-crunching and heavy-lifting capabilities you need to put a lot of work on them to choke them out it's crazy and that is why they are so expensive and why they hold their value because they are the workhorses of the server world.
Threadripper is basically EPYC lite but you don't have to worry about the secure platform boot or any of that, it's like comparing Xeon Silver to Xeon Platinum.
My next server set Dell is actually steering me away from the 3554Ps and towards the WX3985 Pros because they intend to offer that in a 1U config and they also think that the 3554s are complete overkill and I agree so they are having that conversation with me on the 24'th.
 
Lakados said:
That's why I have migrated off Threadrippers here, Those who could be upgraded with Mac Studios were, and those who couldn't got Scalable Gen 3 Xeons (Gen 4's werent available for me at that time) and they have been little tanks.
With the exception of this morning where server 3 notified me of a critical failure while I was writing this, for me to be met with a pop and a terrible smell.
Cracked it open to find an exploded Stink Bug across a couple of power rails, so fortunately that cleaned up good and she came back up but yeah...

For the Non Canadians this is the bastard in question.
View attachment 607329
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That is the Conifer Seed Bug. This time of year they are looking for a warm place for the Winter. They can be a nuisance. Glad your system survived the short circuit sabotage.
 
Lakados said:
In my opinion, that's where Threadripper comes in, EPYCs are beasts, they have some serious number-crunching and heavy-lifting capabilities you need to put a lot of work on them to choke them out it's crazy and that is why they are so expensive and why they hold their value because they are the workhorses of the server world.
Threadripper is basically EPYC lite but you don't have to worry about the secure platform boot or any of that, it's like comparing Xeon Silver to Xeon Platinum.
My next server set Dell is actually steering me away from the 3554Ps and towards the WX3985 Pros because they intend to offer that in a 1U config and they also think that the 3554s are complete overkill and I agree so they are having that conversation with me on the 24'th.
Click to expand...

Hmm. I've built my "all-in-one extreme I/O NAS VM home production Server" around the many PCIe lanes my dual socket E5-2650v2 has.

My current server build has
- Twelve 4x m.2 drives
- Two u.2 4x Optane drives
- A dual port 8x 10gig NIC
- An LSI 9300-16i SAS HBA for all my spinning rust.

...and I was hoping to add at least two more m.2 drives as a mirrored boot pair.

I'm afraid that the lanes provided by a Threadripper (at least a non-pro version) would be insufficient, especially since with them I'd need a GPU installed to get past post.

I might just go after used 16-24 core (whatever I can get a good deal on) Milan EPYC's for my next server build.

I intend to get the CPU and a compatible Supermicro motherboard on ebay, and if some disingenuous seller ships a vendor locked CPU like an unlocked one, I guess I'll just have to file a buyer protection claim.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Hmm. I've built my "all-in-one extreme I/O NAS VM home production Server" around the many PCIe lanes my dual socket E5-2650v2 has.

My current server build has
- Twelve 4x m.2 drives
- Two u.2 4x Optane drives
- A dual port 8x 10gig NIC
- An LSI 9300-16i SAS HBA for all my spinning rust.

...and I was hoping to add at least two more m.2 drives as a mirrored boot pair.

I'm afraid that the lanes provided by a Threadripper (at least a non-pro version) would be insufficient, especially since with them I'd need a GPU installed to get past post.

I might just go after used 16-24 core (whatever I can get a good deal on) Milan EPYC's for my next server build.

I intend to get the CPU and a compatible Supermicro motherboard on ebay, and if some disingenuous seller ships a vendor locked CPU like an unlocked one, I guess I'll just have to file a buyer protection claim.
Click to expand...
Looks like you need more lanes than you need processing there. That’s a crapload of IO.

You ever had a measurement done on it for iops? Just might be a fun exercise to see where the system is struggling to identify bottlenecks and what not.

But yeah on the lower core count configs price drops fairly substantially and they are easier to get ahold of on the second hand market as new.

It’s not an uncommon practice for companies who may need 15 CPUs to order 30 and sell the extra 15 because bulk orders move you up the distribution chain. So you might have a 3 month wait on 15 but a 3 week wait on 30.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Hmm.

My server is due for an upgrade, and the last several servers, I've just picked up used Xeons and supermicro boards on eBay.

This time around I was hoping to go for an EPYC system once the prices on Milan have come down, but it sounds like that is more difficult due to this bullshit.

Any tips on how not to get burned, or is it best to avoid used EPYC's all together?

Or maybe it doesn't matter since there is the whole eBay/Paypal buyer protection anyway. If they say unlocked and it isn't, it would seem fairly straightforward to file a claim.
Click to expand...

The vendor locking BS on EPYC was one of the reasons why my new server build is Xeon.

Filing a claim on locking isn't quite trivial since the seller can say you have a broken motherboard or an incompatibility. Unless you already have a working system beforehand. I didn't.

Having said that, seller tugm-something on Ebay is known good (to the servethehome people) and sells full EPYC combos that seem to always work when they arrive.
 
I've contemplated EPYC builds, but the used parts pricing makes my Threadripper 1950X/X399 setup look cheap, or for that matter, any Haswell/Broadwell-EP dual-LGA2011-3 platform. Can't really justify it when even the Naples (Zen 1) stuff is so pricey, and yet so architecturally behind current CPUs.

On that note, I'm glad to see Threadripper non-Pro make a comeback, even if it's still heinously expensive. We need more options for loads of PCIe lanes without necessarily having to go full server platform, and consumer desktop boards kept tying up their limited PCIe lanes with M.2 slots instead of giving us more PCIe slots and an M.2 riser like the hard cards of decades ago.
 
NamelessPFG said:
On that note, I'm glad to see Threadripper non-Pro make a comeback, even if it's still heinously expensive.
Click to expand...
At list price, any Thredripper is way beyond my pay grade. But what if a bunch of us on this forum did a group buy? Could we get like a 90% discount? ;) Then I could upgrade.
 
NamelessPFG said:
On that note, I'm glad to see Threadripper non-Pro make a comeback, even if it's still heinously expensive.
Click to expand...

It is expensive, but remember, the launch pricing of the 3000 series Threadrippers wasn't exactly affordable either:

- 3960x (24C/48T) $1,399
- 3970x (32C/64T) $1,999
- 3990x (64C/129T) $3,990

So, this is a price increase, but factor in inflation since 2019, and the price increases are actually pretty modest.

Factor in inflation, and the 24 core variant is actually a couple of hundred bucks cheaper than the 3000 series.

The 32 core version and 64 core version are both only $100-$200 more than the 3000 series.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
It is expensive, but remember, the launch pricing of the 3000 series Threadrippers wasn't exactly affordable either:

- 3960x (24C/48T) $1,399
- 3970x (32C/64T) $1,999
- 3990x (64C/129T) $3,990

So, this is a price increase, but factor in inflation since 2019, and the price increases are actually pretty modest.

Factor in inflation, and the 24 core variant is actually a couple of hundred bucks cheaper than the 3000 series.

The 32 core version and 64 core version are both only $100-$200 more than the 3000 series.
Click to expand...
The Threadripper chips aren’t looking bad price or performance wise I just fear the price tag on the memory modules that sits along side them. And their associated Motherboards…

On well fortunately for me that’s a work problem, I just need to look forward to the R7 8800x3D when ever that gets announced.
I have managed to convince accounting it’s not appropriate for my work to exist on my personal machines as a near requirement to do my job and they agree as nobody else is expected to do that. So my home PC requirements just plummeted, very happy.
 
Lakados said:
As somebody who hates the Lenovo P620's that Dell looks good.
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At least for the very first gen, it should be relatively easy to be much better.

The p620 case size for a thread ripper system and cooling solution did look terrible, the Dell probably will be quite similar to their previous: https://www.storagereview.com/review/dell-precision-7865-review


pututu said:
theFPSreview on Threadripper Pro 7995WX 96-core system. https://www.thefpsreview.com/2023/1...-hits-over-100000-in-cinebench-r23-benchmark/
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Seem it is not FPSReview they are just leaching PC magazine:
https://www.pcmag.com/news/96-cores-one-chip-first-tests-amds-ryzen-threadripper-pro-7995wx-soars

Only remote test, so not much about the CPU heatsink performance
 
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LukeTbk said:
At least for the very first gen, it should be relatively easy to be much better.

The p620 case size for a thread ripper system and cooling solution did look terrible, probably will be quite similar to their previous: https://www.storagereview.com/review/dell-precision-7865-review



Seem it is not FPSReview they are just leaching PC magazine:
https://www.pcmag.com/news/96-cores-one-chip-first-tests-amds-ryzen-threadripper-pro-7995wx-soars

Only remote test, so not much about teh fanless CPU heatsink performance
Click to expand...
Forget looked terrible, damned thing squealed like a pig in heat, terrible airflow.
 
Lakados said:
Forget looked terrible, damned thing squealed like a pig in heat, terrible airflow.
Click to expand...
Almost looked like people would put them in the server room instead of on their desk, but still a strange package choice for that option, making it a not that good option in any scenario imo...
 
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