AMD Phenom II X4 Model 940 @ [H]

[Stoly]

Well the core i7 965 used in the review costs $1,000 bucks alone.

BTW if you read my post I clearly said an i7 setup CAN cost twice as a core2.

There are too many variables but rest assured I can take the pepsi challenge and show you a cheap core2 setup thats less than half the price than the cheapest i7 (but then again it might be terribly slow). That's not the point. The point is VALUE and IMO core2 gives you more for your dollar.

This will inevitably change in time and hopefully 09 will be the year of i7. But I'm leaning more towards 2010.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Well the core i7 965 used in the review costs $1,000 bucks alone.

BTW if you read my post I clearly said an i7 setup CAN cost twice as a core2.

There are too many variables but rest assured I can take the pepsi challenge and show you a cheap core2 setup thats less than half the price than the cheapest i7 (but then again it might be terribly slow). That's not the point. The point is VALUE and IMO core2 gives you more for your dollar.

This will inevitably change in time and hopefully 09 will be the year of i7. But I'm leaning more towards 2010.

and where does these AMD chips come into play then? are they cheaper then core 2?

 

[jandar]

where have you seen a i7 cost more then double of a core 2. what are you on about? a typical quad core 2 with decent mobo and ram costs around 2/3 of a typical i7 equivalent.

some quad core 2 cpu's are priced more then the i7 920! i wished some people open their eyes a little and realize the ONLY thing that costs alot for a i7 build is the ram and mobo. everything else is just about the same. PSU, cpu coolers, hdd, cases etc! all you need for a i7 rig in comparison to a core 2 rig is mobo, ram and cpu.

spec me a full quad core 2 build with 4gb and then spec me a i7 build with the same amount of memory and same psu, case, hdd etc to show me it costs MORE THEN DOUBLE

from the Egg.
Core i7 920 -2.66Ghz 300$(You can get 3.6-3.9 Ghz out of it.)
Cheapest board (with 6 DDR3 slots) is about 215$
6GB of cheap DDR3 (3 sticks of 2GB for Triple Channel) is 145$

660$ for just the board, cpu and ram.


4GB DDR2 RAM (2x2 for dual channel) is 35$
Q9400 is 265$
decent mobo with high overclocking: under 80$

380$

That is about half the cost for a comparable cpu/mobo/ram setup.
Adding in all of the other parts, the percentages of cost go way down, but is the i7 setup worth twice the cost of c2q setup?

When prices of DDR3 and LGA 1336 boards come down in comparable price to DDR2 and LGA775, it is a no brainer to buy i7. But the difference in price due to ram and motherboards can buy a nice 260/4870. For a gamer on a budget, the i7 is not worth the extra money.

The ~300$ in difference can buy a lower end 9600GT and power supply, case, and even throw in a blu-ray drive.

For someone not on a tight budget, the i7 is the better buy, more future proof.

 

[alg7_munif]

from the Egg.
Core i7 920 -2.66Ghz 300$(You can get 3.6-3.9 Ghz out of it.)
Cheapest board (with 6 DDR3 slots) is about 215$
6GB of cheap DDR3 (3 sticks of 2GB for Triple Channel) is 145$

660$ for just the board, cpu and ram.


4GB DDR2 RAM (2x2 for dual channel) is 35$
Q9400 is 265$
decent mobo with high overclocking: under 80$

380$

That is about half the cost for a comparable cpu/mobo/ram setup.
Adding in all of the other parts, the percentages of cost go way down, but is the i7 setup worth twice the cost of c2q setup?

When prices of DDR3 and LGA 1336 boards come down in comparable price to DDR2 and LGA775, it is a no brainer to buy i7. But the difference in price due to ram and motherboards can buy a nice 260/4870. For a gamer on a budget, the i7 is not worth the extra money.

The ~300$ in difference can buy a lower end 9600GT and power supply, case, and even throw in a blu-ray drive.

For someone not on a tight budget, the i7 is the better buy, more future proof.

Except that S775 is a dead end. PII still have a life in it but I would at least wait for the AM3 PII.

 

[stabilep]

Except that S775 is a dead end. PII still have a life in it but I would at least wait for the AM3 PII.

If you buy a PII now (Based on an AM2) and upgrade later you need to replace the motherboard and RAM. If you wait to buy an AM3 based system then just like the new i7 the boards will be more expensive and the RAM prices are the same because the i7 and the PII use the same type of ram and the i7 parts price will continue to fall as it has been doing. So then why should you buy a processor that performs worse then the i7?

 

[maxius]

Just wish the review wasnt so biased we know it sucks compared to the i7...shrug

perhaps the reason is all the shiny new i7 systems around [H]

 

[Met-AL]

Except that S775 is a dead end. PII still have a life in it but I would at least wait for the AM3 PII.

You could argue the S775 is dead end because the transition to the I7, but at same time the PH-2 is a dead end because the performance is just not there.

The only thing I see that would make me buy AMD is the low end.. the PH 9600 Quad can be had for $120 and can encode H264 better than a $120 E7300 C2D. Other than that, what's the point?

 

[jonneymendoza]

perhaps the reason is all the shiny new i7 systems around [H]

perhaps the p2 just sucks period and people was expecting more from it given the amount of hype it got

 

[alg7_munif]

If you buy a PII now (Based on an AM2) and upgrade later you need to replace the motherboard and RAM. If you wait to buy an AM3 based system then just like the new i7 the boards will be more expensive and the RAM prices are the same because the i7 and the PII use the same type of ram and the i7 parts price will continue to fall as it has been doing. So then why should you buy a processor that performs worse then the i7?

What I mean is, buy an AM2+ mobo with DDR2 RAM but use an AM3 PII because the CPU will work inside an AM2+ mobo and also AM3 mobo. Later when DDR3 and AM3 mobos are cheap, just buy the mobo and RAM without a new CPU. You can still upgrade the CPU later with a faster AM3 CPU.

 

[fps4ever]

Phenom II is a failure? Hardly...the last page of benchmarks shows just how bias this article was even taking into account the whole article, which yes I did read btw. Price vs. performance on the whole platform is what AMD is aiming for, and in that they succeeded. Pair it with your favorite 790GX mobo and cheap DDR2 and it wins hands down. it's going to take more than saving a few pennies for a new Core i7 system.

I'm no AMD fanboy but I can clearly see the benefit in actual dollars keeping the same socket for now and giving you a cheap and affordable upgrade option. It seems most of the other reviews feel that way also!

 

[Derfman]

Except that S775 is a dead end. PII still have a life in it but I would at least wait for the AM3 PII.

So then why should you buy a processor that performs worse then the i7?

You know, this reminds me of the beginning of GTA4... Niko is talking about cousin and how he lives in a "mansion" and has a big "sports" car, because he moved to America and he is living the American dream, or so he was told...

When his cousin comes to pick him up in a hoopty* he askes him "Hey Roman where is the sports car?"... "Oh yea, yea the sports car, it's at the shop! Hahaha."

So AMD where is this next generation processor that is going to leap your company in the next generation of CPU competition like a CPU version of Michael Phelps?

"Oh yea, yea the next generation super fast AMD CPU, it's in developement! Hahaha"... - AMD

I'm saddened to see this as anyone else... I am not a fan boy of any company and ALWAYS buy the best product for my dollar that fits my current needs. I have gone from Intel to AMD and back to Intel again with my Q6600... I would have loved to invest money into a new motherboard just for the Phenom II if it actually had the power of a true successor... I have to agree with Kyle, I wonder how much longer AMD can stick around while choking on Intel's dust... 2009 is going to be a very straight forward lack luster year once again for the CPU market...

 

[Vermillion]

Phenom II is a failure? Hardly...the last page of benchmarks shows just how bias this article was even taking into account the whole article, which yes I did read btw. Price vs. performance on the whole platform is what AMD is aiming for, and in that they succeeded. Pair it with your favorite 790GX mobo and cheap DDR2 and it wins hands down. it's going to take more than saving a few pennies for a new Core i7 system.

I'm no AMD fanboy but I can clearly see the benefit in actual dollars keeping the same socket for now and giving you a cheap and affordable upgrade option. It seems most of the other reviews feel that way also!

But what about when Intel undercuts the prices on the C2Q chips to make them cost less then Phenom II?

That makes a C2Q system very attractive because they do have life left in them. AMD would have to cut their prices considerably making their profit margins slimmer to make Phenom II look more worthwhile then a C2Q.

 

[stabilep]

What I mean is, buy an AM2+ mobo with DDR2 RAM but use an AM3 PII because the CPU will work inside an AM2+ mobo and also AM3 mobo. Later when DDR3 and AM3 mobos are cheap, just buy the mobo and RAM without a new CPU. You can still upgrade the CPU later with a faster AM3 CPU.

I know what you mean but you will still be wasting money. You are proposing to buy a motherboard and ram be it 2gb or 4gb it doesn't matter. Then a $300 processor. After about 6months lets say which is probably how long it will take for everything to fall down to those prices anyways you want to keep the processor which by then will be hopelessly outdated more then it is right now, and replace the motherboard and the ram.

Lets say you want to then buy a $100 motherboard. Because lets face it thats a cheap reasonable price point right? So you buy a $100 motherboard now and some ram which costs like $50 for 4gb I guess. So you spent $420 for phase 1. Then you decide oh wow I want to now replace the motherboard and ram with DDR3. So we wait for however long it takes prices to fall spend another $150 on parts (We have th eprocessor) now you have spent $570 on parts for a processor that by the time the prices are that low will be so hopelessly outclassed either by its own sucessor or Intel's new parts that you might as well get a new processor by then too.

Its just not economical mainly because of how long you will need to wait for the prices to fall that low. If you can wait that long then you might as well just wait al together and built a i7 system when those part prices fall as well.

I stillf eel the only people who this thing appeals to is those who have a motherboard AMD setup that can support this processor as it puts extra life into their system because they already have the motherboard and ram and so they can spread the costs out a little more.

I would like to point out that I am not trying to be an Intel fanboy in fact I have used only AMD processors until monday when i built my i7 system. I just don't see why the Phenom II would be worth anythign to anyone building a system at this moment. Who knows what can happen. AMD could decide next year that they are going to release yet another new socket to compete. It would be the first time. I am still feelign burned by the whole stupid fiasco of the Socket 754/939/940/AM2 mess.

 

[maxius]

perhaps the p2 just sucks period and people was expecting more from it given the amount of hype it got

the p2 is a step froward it was not meant to compete with the i7 it was aimed at the core2 quad in the same price range...

 

[stabilep]

the p2 is a step froward it was not meant to compete with the i7 it was aimed at the core2 quad in the same price range...

Which is dumb IMO because the Core 2's are done they are going away. Why did it take AMD this long to compete with a product that came out a year ago? I think thats what Kyle is trying to say. It make no sense!

 

[jonneymendoza]

the p2 is a step froward it was not meant to compete with the i7 it was aimed at the core2 quad in the same price range...

and it took them 2 years to come up with that?

when the new i5's come out, it will put a nice spin on things even further has the i5's are ment to be the budget version of the i7's whilst still being faster then the core 2's

 

[FrgMstr]

Phenom II is a failure? Hardly...the last page of benchmarks shows just how bias this article was even taking into account the whole article, which yes I did read btw. Price vs. performance on the whole platform is what AMD is aiming for, and in that they succeeded. Pair it with your favorite 790GX mobo and cheap DDR2 and it wins hands down. it's going to take more than saving a few pennies for a new Core i7 system.

I'm no AMD fanboy but I can clearly see the benefit in actual dollars keeping the same socket for now and giving you a cheap and affordable upgrade option. It seems most of the other reviews feel that way also!

Did not say it was a failure. You sure you RTFA'd? Phenom II is a loser. It loses to Core 2 and Core i7 clock for clock and scales to pretty much the same clocks. If you would like to question that statement, I have plenty of data to back it up.

I think you might go back and compare you full Phenom II build to a Core 2 build. I can do Core 2 for less money with a quality mobo and get a faster gaming rig. Period. The Phenom II is still $275 for just the CPU when I can buy Core 2 that will scale in MHz for a lot less money. And do note that I bought multiple Core i7 CPUs for cheap a month ago. Granted the mobo and ram cost are double or triple than Phenom II or Core 2.

As for AMD and what it is aiming for. Trust me, the bargain bin CPU business, while a big part of the overall business picture, was not where it was aiming. The Cyrix defense will not work here.

 

[jonneymendoza]

defo. AMD would of loved to be making top CPU hardware but at this moment in time they simply cannot do so.

ahh well, at least INTEL are making more effort in trying to advance in technology for cpu's

 

[maxius]

Which is dumb IMO because the Core 2's are done they are going away. Why did it take AMD this long to compete with a product that came out a year ago? I think thats what Kyle is trying to say. It make no sense!

it makes perfect sense for people with am2 and am2+ systems it is a perfect upgrade for them one chip vs chip board memory and a windows reinstall it is a less of a hassle for the current amd user

 

[jonneymendoza]

it makes perfect sense for people with am2 and am2+ systems it is a perfect upgrade for them one chip vs chip board memory and a windows reinstall it is a less of a hassle for the current amd user

not everyone has a AMD2 system, infact, AMD should be aiming to get more people onboard their gear and releasing this so called phenom 2 cpu is not the answer. all it does is keep existing AMD users happy

 

[stabilep]

it makes perfect sense for people with am2 and am2+ systems it is a perfect upgrade for them one chip vs chip board memory and a windows reinstall it is a less of a hassle for the current amd user

Which I did acknowledge in this thread several times in fact that the Phenom II's only market is people who already have an AM2 board that can take advantage of it and want to spread out the cost of upgrading. if you are building a new machine there is very little appeal. A Core 2 Quad system is cheaper and an i7 system is faster. The Phenom II fits no where in there.

 

[maxius]

not everyone has a AMD2 system, infact, AMD should be aiming to get more people onboard their gear and releasing this so called phenom 2 cpu is not the answer. all it does is keep existing AMD users happy

that's the 1st rule in the market place keep your existing user base happy

 

[Derfman]

that's the 1st rule in the market place keep your existing user base happy

If only that userbase was enough to get them out of the red...

They need innovation not limited thinking, making current users happy and making NEW customers happy is the motivational thinking behind that "1st rule".

 

[jonneymendoza]

that's the 1st rule in the market place keep your existing user base happy

What if your user base is small? shouldn't you try and expand your user base as well as keep your existing one?

 

[Dosomo]

that's the 1st rule in the market place keep your existing user base happy

You are dancing around the real issue. The AM2 user base is relatively tiny in the overall market. Keeping that small group "happy" isn't AMD's main goal when launching a new CPU.

No matter how you look at it, the Phenom II is not a good product launch. (Or a good sign.) If AMD was aiming for the top end, and fell this far short, that is bad. If AMD was actually aiming for the midrange (Core 2) with their fastest product, then they are setting themselves up for failure. Intel can lower the prices of the Core 2s and eat them alive. There is no positive light or silver lining here. Phenom II is a red flag that AMD is on a bad path. It is unfortunate, and I am honestly sorry, but the writing is on the wall.

 

[Dan_D]

What if your user base is small? shouldn't you try and expand your user base as well as keep your existing one?

Yes. Staying stagnant or not growing your customer base will kill a company.

 

[maxius]

What if your user base is small? shouldn't you try and expand your user base as well as keep your existing one?

very true but in this economic climate if you have an am2 based system and you want more performance with out replacing everything this is the option amd has given you for a simple upgrade path. to hold you over till the next generation comes

You are dancing around the real issue. The AM2 user base is relatively tiny in the overall market. Keeping that small group "happy" isn't AMD's main goal when launching a new CPU.

No matter how you look at it, the Phenom II is not a good product launch. (Or a good sign.) If AMD was aiming for the top end, and fell this far short, that is bad. If AMD was actually aiming for the midrange (Core 2) with their fastest product, then they are setting themselves up for failure. Intel can lower the prices of the Core 2s and eat them alive. There is no positive light or silver lining here. Phenom II is a red flag that AMD is on a bad path. It is unfortunate, and I am honestly sorry, but the writing is on the wall.

the writing is not on the wall it definitely would be if amd had not spun off its manufacturing assets. is amd in a performance hole yes can they get out of it yes amd has a lot of talented engineers that have accomplished a lot though will they anytime this year probably not.

 

[stabilep]

What if your user base is small? shouldn't you try and expand your user base as well as keep your existing one?

Yes. Thats how AMD got to where they were witht he Athlon 64 line by thinking outside the box and improving and Intel just couldn't keep up. Users have hardly any brand loyalty really the extreme loyal people are the tiniest user base. Most people jump ships if somethign better faster comes along. Remember the ATi 9700/9800 vs. the GeForce FX series? I mean come on after so many years of people buying only nVidia whent he GeForce FX came out and just floundered people jumped ship so fast it wasn't even funny. And after years of Intel intel intel, when AMD came out with the Athlon and the Athlon XP's that beat the crap out in intel on price and performance people jumped ship then too.

by making a product that only appeals to your existing customers in this market is not going to cut it at all.

 

[MavMange]

This was a great article. I wasn't looking for a buying guide with price/performance comparisons for sub $300 processors. I wanted to know about how AMD's processor compared to the Core 2 and Core 7 releases. I don't care what the retail value of the processors' are. From this article I saw how AMD fared when they were put on the same GHZ playing field as the other CPU's from Intel which have dominated the market in performance for the last couple years.

Clearly, AMD needs to spend less time and money hyping these Phenom products as being the latest and greatest and put those resources towards actually developing a product that can hold it's own clock for clock. They at least need to meet the same GHZ performance as Intel's Core 7 even if their product can't scale as high in clocking.

Personally I went with AMD on my last two Nforce based systems and both had issues with some files being corrupted in large transfers between hard drives. I would initially buy a mid grade cpu and then a year later would want to replace that cpu only to find out they no longer make them for that socket. I lost count of the AMD socket types they went through over the last 5 years.

Last week I bought a Core 7 920, mainboard, 3GB DDR3, and 150gb VelociRaptor for $830 at newegg. I thought it was very affordable for the performance increase that I'll get and it wasn't much different in pricing from the Core 2's to keep me from choosing the Core 7.

 

[maxius]

Personally I went with AMD on my last two Nforce based systems and both had issues with some files being corrupted in large transfers between hard drives..

your problem was the nvidia chip set not the amd processor.

I lost count of the AMD socket types they went through over the last 5 years.

How many sockets has intel had in the past 5 years prob the same amount...

Clearly, AMD needs to spend less time and money hyping these Phenom products as being the latest and greatest and put those resources towards actually developing a product that can hold it's own clock for clock. They at least need to meet the same GHZ performance as Intel's Core 7 even if their product can't scale as high in clocking.

they are not intel anyways intels x86 engine is more efficient than amd's by 5 - 10% (if i can find the article that mentions this i will update it) so amd will always be in a clock for clock decificit with intel

 

[stabilep]

very true but in this economic climate if you have an am2 based system and you want more performance with out replacing everything this is the option amd has given you for a simple upgrade path. to hold you over till the next generation comes



the writing is not on the wall it definitely would be if amd had not spun off its manufacturing assets. is amd in a performance hole yes can they get out of it yes amd has a lot of talented engineers that have accomplished a lot though will they anytime this year probably not.

Unfortuantly they need to do a lot better then this. keeping a current small base of customers happy is not helping them. I mean you need to have a 780/790 board in order to even use a phenom II so they already cut down their existing market. Thats not going to do anything for them. If you need to replace everythign anyways then why are you going to build a more expensive Phenom II system when you can make a great Core 2 Quad system for less? or if you need a new system and price is not as important why are you going to build a Phenom II system when you can make a cheap i7 system that will beat it in performance?

 

[rennyf77]

so many posts objecting to the tone of the article. its just like what happened with the 2900xt. wow people, its a computer part, its not like kyle called your mother a fat, shit-eating bitch.

 

[octoberasian]

Well, I have read every review-- good, bad, and in-between-- regarding the Phenom II X4. Instead of all the backlashing and biases I've read in everyone's replies, how about a realistic question?

Has any review ever considered the fact that the reason the Core i7 outperforms a Phenom II is because it has vastly different architecture and technology? Example: The Core i7 re-implements HyperThreading so it can process up to 8 threads simultaneously. I would consider all the testing a bit lopsided if one doesn't consider the fact that these are two entirely different processors. The Core i7 acts as if it were 8 CPUs in one compared to the Phenom II with 4 cores. Even if with 1 core on each CPU, the Core i7 is still performing two threads at one time compared to a single thread on a Phenom II.

I'm going to ask the same question I asked back in the AMD forum here:

What does AMD need to do DIFFERENTLY to be able to compete at the SAME LEVEL as Intel on their Core i7 processors?

How is it possible that two CPUs with almost the same transistor count and die size perform so differently that one CPU outperforms the other by approximately 50%, 75%, 100% or even 200% in a lot of areas?
​

Does AMD have to implement a version of HyperThreading to be at the same speed and performance as an i7?

Does AMD have to reorganize and reconstruct the layout of various components on the CPU die (or core) to be at the same performance as an i7?

What is AMD doing wrong that makes the Phenom II perform worst than an i7 clock-for-clock at almost the same transistor count and die size? And, what do they have to do to be at an equivalent and competitive performance to the i7?

It's the one question that hasn't been given a straight answer back in that thread. I'd like something that is a more plausible and concrete explanation, even if technical. I can understand technical.

 

[maxius]

Unfortuantly they need to do a lot better then this. keeping a current small base of customers happy is not helping them. I mean you need to have a 780/790 board in order to even use a phenom II so they already cut down their existing market. Thats not going to do anything for them. If you need to replace everythign anyways then why are you going to build a more expensive Phenom II system when you can make a great Core 2 Quad system for less? or if you need a new system and price is not as important why are you going to build a Phenom II system when you can make a cheap i7 system that will beat it in performance?

you do not need to have a 780/790 board. you can use a p2 in any am2 and am2+ board. this was the 1st phenom 2; it was launched to provide a upgrade path for existing users of the am2/+ socket. is it a year late yes the tlb bug from the 1st batch of phenoms pushed everything back by 6 months to a year will amd come out of this yes

 

[RAMPAGEOH]

I will say this Kyle, you sounded quite pissed off in the article and went out of your way to make sure everyone knew you were not impressed. Aggressive writing, "tell it like it is" stype that [H] has been known for, while most times I have chuckled about (even when bitching out AMD), this seemed more personal. Not sure where it came from, but this seemed more of an attempt to attack AMD's PR machine and kick their respective teeth in, rather than a technical shakedown of their product.
.

-=TD

I am glad that I am not the only one that picked up on this. Kyle seemed to show outright contempt for AMD and the Phenom II. This review was by far the most negative review of the dozen or so that I read. While I have been a fan of HardOCP for about 12 years (I had to re-register after a time when RL took me away from the computer scene and I had changed my email address) I have begun to wonder if maybe this site has lost touch with the average computer enthusiast.

Still having said that it was an informative (albeit angry) review. It is obvious that AMD will not catch Intel until they do the same thing that Intel did with the core i7 and start with a clean sheet of paper and design from the ground up. Unfortunately, in their current financial state they are fighting for survival and may not have the means to do so. I think for now their only option is to try to compete in the higher volume mid-range market and hope they can slow the loss of market share long enough to weather the financial downturn.

 

[alg7_munif]

I know what you mean but you will still be wasting money. You are proposing to buy a motherboard and ram be it 2gb or 4gb it doesn't matter. Then a $300 processor. After about 6months lets say which is probably how long it will take for everything to fall down to those prices anyways you want to keep the processor which by then will be hopelessly outdated more then it is right now, and replace the motherboard and the ram.

Lets say you want to then buy a $100 motherboard. Because lets face it thats a cheap reasonable price point right? So you buy a $100 motherboard now and some ram which costs like $50 for 4gb I guess. So you spent $420 for phase 1. Then you decide oh wow I want to now replace the motherboard and ram with DDR3. So we wait for however long it takes prices to fall spend another $150 on parts (We have th eprocessor) now you have spent $570 on parts for a processor that by the time the prices are that low will be so hopelessly outclassed either by its own sucessor or Intel's new parts that you might as well get a new processor by then too.

Its just not economical mainly because of how long you will need to wait for the prices to fall that low. If you can wait that long then you might as well just wait al together and built a i7 system when those part prices fall as well.

I stillf eel the only people who this thing appeals to is those who have a motherboard AMD setup that can support this processor as it puts extra life into their system because they already have the motherboard and ram and so they can spread the costs out a little more.

I would like to point out that I am not trying to be an Intel fanboy in fact I have used only AMD processors until monday when i built my i7 system. I just don't see why the Phenom II would be worth anythign to anyone building a system at this moment. Who knows what can happen. AMD could decide next year that they are going to release yet another new socket to compete. It would be the first time. I am still feelign burned by the whole stupid fiasco of the Socket 754/939/940/AM2 mess.

Try compare that to a Core 2 platform. There are similiar enough in term of performance and price now.

If you buy the cheaper Core 2 platform now, not the i7 platform, what can you do in 6 months time? Replace all the CPU, mobo and RAM?

If you go with the AM3 PII, you will end up with about the same performance at around the same price as the Core 2 now. Later on you can just upgrade the mobo and RAM to keep the upgrade cost down. After that you can buy a new CPU.

I'm pretty sure that when DDR3 becomes mainstream, DDR2 price will be higher than a similiar DDR3 stick. If you sell the DDR2 RAM, you can upgrade to DDR3 at almost no cost so you are basically upgrading your mobo.

The only problem here is AM3 PII is not out yet so we don't know how the price will be when it comes out.

I'm not saying that PII is an alternative for the i7 but when compared to Core 2, I see a better upgrade path with the PIII.

 

[stabilep]

you do not need to have a 780/790 board. you can use a p2 in any am2 and am2+ board. this was the 1st phenom 2; it was launched to provide a upgrade path for existing users of the am2/+ socket. is it a year late yes the tlb bug from the 1st batch of phenoms pushed everything back by 6 months to a year will amd come out of this yes

I stand dorrected I was reading the Guru3D articel it was talking about AM3 processors being able to work in a 780/790 board I thought the Phenom II was an AM3 processor and thus figured that it would only work int hsoe boards as well. It looks liek it will need to support AM2 and be on the lsit that mnafucaturers have put out. And judging by those lists it appears pretyt much 780/790 are fine with a few nForce 8300/8200/780/750/720 thrown in there but not that many.

Sufficent to say my point remains: its not compatiable with ALL AM2 and AM2+ boards it needs to be on the special list. Its not different then when intel releases a new processor platform even with the same socket your motherboard still needs to support it.

 

[stabilep]

Try compare that to a Core 2 platform. There are similiar enough in term of performance and price now.

If you buy the cheaper Core 2 platform now, not the i7 platform, what can you do in 6 months time? Replace all the CPU, mobo and RAM?

If you go with the AM3 PII, you will end up with about the same performance at around the same price as the Core 2 now. Later on you can just upgrade the mobo and RAM to keep the upgrade cost down. After that you can buy a new CPU.

I'm pretty sure that when DDR3 becomes mainstream, DDR2 price will be higher than a similiar DDR3 stick. If you sell the DDR2 RAM, you can upgrade to DDR3 at almost no cost so you are basically upgrading your mobo.

The only problem here is AM3 PII is not out yet so we don't know how the price will be when it comes out.

Except a Core 2 platform is cheaper not the same price. And as for your selling memory arguement I got 8 sticks of DDR400 ram that disagree with you. I can't give those suckers away if I tried let alone sell them. New ones sell for like $10 on the egg I am sure used is a fraction of that. Unless I wait until its so old Nasa will by them from me to use on the next shuttle which by that time I will be on 4 computers later.

And I am confused I thought this would work on an AM3 board? So if it doesn't work then what the heck is the point of this release?

 

[Volcanon]

Not surprising...

Barcelona is a failed architecture for enthusiast purposes. It did good in the server/cluster segment for a time, until Core i7... now AMD has no realm where they dominate in top performance or even performance per dollar.

I think AMD got overzealous and drank too much of their own koolaid from the Athlon XP/64 days and got used to Intel being a bumbling competitor. Now that Intel is putting out such impressive chips, AMD has been caught flat footed.

Hopefully their next architecture is much more competitive.

The only reason I suggest anyone buy AMD's parts is to prevent AMD from going out of business and allowing Intel to have a monopoly.

 

[rahavsmt]

I'm pretty sure that when DDR3 becomes mainstream, DDR2 price will be higher than a similiar DDR3 stick. If you sell the DDR2 RAM, you can upgrade to DDR3 at almost no cost so you are basically upgrading your mobo.

Might as well just sell the am2 CPU and buy an i5 CPU.

Sell DDR2 and buy DDR3. Check
Sell mobo and buy new mobo. Check

You are just one step away from a clearly superior architecture.