AMD Hawiian Islands Details - Faster Than Titan 1020mhz, 512bit memory

[Unknown-One]

I like the other 99.9999% of gamers don't run Eyefinity with our AMD cards

Good for you, doesn't help me (or any of the other people you marginalized) who are running Eyefinity (and paid good money to get a setup that was supposed to work).

My point was the stupid generalizing in your posts not the personal drivers issues....

I'm not generalizing, I'm saying exactly what AMD said. This is not a personal issue, it's right in the release notes for the latest beta drivers.

Scenarios involving DX9, OpenGL, Eyefinity, or 4K = No frame pacing. For anyone.

so what now I should leave this thread and follow your other posts to find out what you actually meant?

Uh, no, I never said that.

Really, you just need to read more carefully. The post I was referencing is in this thread. No need to go anywhere... You should remember the post, it's the one I grilled you for truncating when you, yourself, quoted it:

[...]I run triple-monitor, which not even the most recent beta drivers help.

You quoted the above post here, and I re-quoted it to you here.

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

That's the thing, though... There's already a card faster than the Titan with a price competing with a 780... it's called a GTX 780 HOF.

The 780 and Titan are THAT close (under gaming workloads). Using the Titan as a comparison when it comes to price-point really doesn't make much sense when there are already faster/cheaper Nvidia cards on the shelf.

So what? It's an overclocked card AND its $690. What if the 290X overclocks equally well? again, it puts the 780 in a position that is unfavorable. You can defend the 780 all you want, going by the assumption that the leaks are true, it's going to have to drop by $100-$150. (which is good for everyone!(except NV)

and wtf?
Usually ships within 1 to 2 months.

 

[Frankie]

The problem is if it is faster than the Titan with price competing with a 780, then the 780 is really not a story, it's left behind in the dust, with it's performance no longer mattering in the comparison.

Titan is not a good value, however "titan-level performance" for less than 780 prices ? that isn't a good value?

I didn't say it wasn't a good value, I'm saying it's stupid to base value off a comparison to a card known primarily for being a very poor value, especially when you've got another card (the 780) that not only is a much better value, but is much more similar in price.

Does anyone think the Titan leaves the 780 in the dust? I don't. So why would I think the 290 does?

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

I didn't say it wasn't a good value, I'm saying it's stupid to base value off a comparison to a card known primarily for being a very poor value, especially when you've got another card (the 780) that not only is a much better value, but is much more similar in price.

Does anyone think the Titan leaves the 780 in the dust? I don't. So why would I think the 290 does?

Titan does leave the 780 in the dust.

And again, you seem to be missing the real comparison

TITAN performance for LESS THAN 780 prices?
how about this

considerably FASTER than a 780 for cheaper? does that make you happy? I don't get what's so hard about this.

IF these leaks are true. Then AMDs offering is faster than Nvidias TOP card which is a very POOR value but costs less than their second to top card, which is an OK value, that makes the AMD card not only a better value than both the 780 and Titan, but faster too.

 

[Kor]

I'm saying the issue techreport is covering wasn't known 9 months ago.

It totally was, although the direct cause for the problem wasn't easily identifiable. Not sure if I can dig through my post history here but I know I've got posts back from at least 2 maybe even 3 years ago talking about the massive stutter/misrepresented frame rate problems I had on my 5870 CFX Eyefinity setup.

In fact I was super pumped when those FCAT reviews started popping up because there was finally some quantifiable data behind the problem.

 

[pcjunkie]

Good for you, doesn't help me (or any of the other people you marginalized) who are running Eyefinity (and paid good money to get a setup that was supposed to work).


I'm not generalizing, I'm saying exactly what AMD said. This is not a personal issue, it's right in the release notes for the latest beta drivers.

Scenarios DX9, OpenGL, Eyefinity, or 4K = No frame pacing. For anyone.


Uh, no, I never said that.

There's no need, the post I was referencing is in this thread. No need to go anywhere... You should remember the post, it's the one I grilled you for truncating when you, yourself, quoted it:

You quoted the above post here, and I re-quoted it to you here.

LOL...you mean this phrase "No, because the HD 7970 is unusable due to crossfire issues" doesn't mean what you wrote? I did overlook the (doubly) beta drivers didn't help your Eyefinity issues in the second part so I'll give you that. maybe instead of using "...doubly" as in also you could have written "unusable due to" if that's what you actually meant?. I thought a nazi grammar would know that?

 

[Unknown-One]

So what? It's an overclocked card AND its $690.

You were talking about a card faster than a Titan at a price similar to the GTX 780, I presented a pre-existing example of such.

What if the 290X overclocks equally well? again, it puts the 780 in a position that is unfavorable.

Only if it's priced lower than the 780.

If it's faster than the 780 then AMD has little/no reason to price the card lower than the 780. Especily not with the demand Nvidia is seeing for the 780 right now.

and wtf?
Usually ships within 1 to 2 months.

Like I said, the cards are in demand, many are back-ordered. AMD would be nuts not to price accordingly and milk all the consumers eager to spend $650 for that level of performance.

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

It totally was, although the direct cause for the problem wasn't easily identifiable. Not sure if I can dig through my post history here but I know I've got posts back from at least 2 maybe even 3 years ago talking about the massive stutter/misrepresented frame rate problems I had on my 5870 CFX Eyefinity setup.

In fact I was super pumped when those FCAT reviews started popping up because there was finally some quantifiable data behind the problem.

The 58xx was known to suck @ crossfire, seems the 69xx was better, did the issue extend to those cards? not many people complained there.

You were talking about a card faster than a Titan at a price similar to the GTX 780, I presented a pre-existing example of such.

Only if it's priced lower than the 780.

If it's faster than the 780 then AMD has little/no reason to price the card lower than the 780. Especily not with the demand Nvidia is seeing for the 780 right now.

Like I said, the cards are in demand, many are back-ordered. AMD would be nuts not to price accordingly and milk all the consumers eager to spend $650 for that level of performance.

Again, going on the assumption that the leaks are accurate... the leaks indicate $599 @ faster than titan.

and you presented a pre-existing example of a card that is close to it's limit, where as a Titan can still be overclocked(which would put it ahead of an OC'd 780) and presumably the 290X too.

 

[veedubfreak]

Counterpoint.
Nvidia surround DOES NOT WORK unless all 3 monitors are the EXACT SAME MODEL. My 7970 pushes my 3 mismatched 30" monitors in eyefinity just fine, it just isn't quite up to the task of pushing 12mil pixels at max settings. But at least I can make it turn on the fucking spanning.

 

[Unknown-One]

LOL...you mean this phrase "No, because the HD 7970 is unusable due to crossfire issues"

Sorry, I meant the HD 7990 there.

Though that said, two 7970's in crossfire share the same issue. Just as unusable if you try to go that route *shrug*

doesn't mean what you wrote? I did overlook the beta drivers didn't help your Eyefinity issues in the second part so I'll give you that. Your idea of unusable must be different from mine...

Yes, I consider the current beta drivers unusable for everyday use.

Too many of games are OpenGL and DX9, which means they don't get frame pacing with the current beta drivers (even on single-monitor systems). And then you lose frame-pacing on everything else the second you try to run it in Eyefinity...

Yeah, not ready for prime-time yet.

Counterpoint.
Nvidia surround DOES NOT WORK unless all 3 monitors are the EXACT SAME MODEL. My 7970 pushes my 3 mismatched 30" monitors in eyefinity just fine, it just isn't quite up to the task of pushing 12mil pixels at max settings. But at least I can make it turn on the fucking spanning.

Not always true. Surround is tolerant of mismatched monitors (to a point). Eyefinity happens to be a bit more tolerant.

Counterpoint: Eyefinity sometimes doesn't work properly even when all 3 monitors ARE the exact same model, and even when crossfire it taken out of the mix... As an example, I was never able to resolve the horrible tearing issues my HD 6970 had when running Eyefinity + V-Sync. With displays connected using 2x DVI + 1x DisplayPort, the DisplayPort monitor always had a tear.

As far as I know, the only sure-fire fix for the tearing issue it to make sure all three monitors are connected via DisplayPort. That requires a non-reference card, though... and also meant there was no hope of ever fixing it on my reference-model 6970.

That's a major reason I went with the GTX 780. No issues with mismatched outputs, guaranteed.

 

[Kor]

The 58xx was known to suck @ crossfire, seems the 69xx was better, did the issue extend to those cards? not many people complained there.

6970 Had the same problems, one of my mates had a 2-way then 3-way 6970 setup and it was a stuttery mess in Eyefinity. In fact he moved from 5870's to 6970's in order to try and get away from what we thought was a problem isolated to the 5870's only to have the problem follow him to a new build. In the mean time someone else in our local group was having a perfectly smooth gaming experience using 2-way SLI GTX 460's with a near identical setup.

Needless to say I got my hands on some cheap 560 Ti's at one point and threw them in, night and day difference in frame consisteny at the time. Words can not express how desperate I was to move over to a pair of 680's when they launched

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

6970 Had the same problems, one of my mates had a 2-way then 3-way 6970 setup and it was a stuttery mess in Eyefinity. In fact he moved from 5870's to 6970's in order to try and get away from what we thought was a problem isolated to the 5870's only to have the problem follow him to a new build. In the mean time someone else in our local group was having a perfectly smooth gaming experience using 2-way SLI GTX 460's with a near identical setup.

Needless to say I got my hands on some cheap 560 Ti's at one point and threw them in, night and day difference in frame consisteny at the time. Words can not express how desperate I was to move over to a pair of 680's when they launched

I didn't get too much stutter but then I mostly used them for a single 30" only had eyefinity @ the end of my 6970 x 3 ownership.

so I can't really comment too much. though the 5970 was fine. The 680s were "smoother" feeling when FPS were not over 60, that's for sure. (vs 7970s)

 

[Unknown-One]

and you presented a pre-existing example of a card that is close to it's limit

Close to its limit? Hardly. People have overclocked the HOF Edition (with stock cooling) far beyond factory spec.

And then there's the Zotac GTX 780 AMP edition, which is clocked even higher than the HOF Edition out-of-the-box.

where as a Titan can still be overclocked(which would put it ahead of an OC'd 780) and presumably the 290X too.

Doesn't work that way most of the time, I'm afraid.

The GTX 780 overclocks significantly better than the Titan, for a few reasons.
- Nvidia set a lower max power target on the Titan, leaving it with very little headroom.
- The Titan has more of the core enabled, drawing more power by default (compounding the headroom issue).
- Nvidia forbid OEMs from releasing factory OC Titans, and forbid them from altering the power target on the Titan (but not the 780).

End result? The GTX 780 can be overclocked so much farther than (most) Titan's that it's more likely to be the faster of the two. Also means we have factory-OC GTX 780's with modified power targets that, out-of-the-box, go WAY beyond what the Titan can achieve (unless you want to get into modifying Titan BIOS).

 

[Kor]

I didn't get too much stutter but then I mostly used them for a single 30" only had eyefinity @ the end of my 6970 x 3 ownership.

so I can't really comment too much. though the 5970 was fine. The 680s were "smoother" feeling when FPS were not over 60, that's for sure. (vs 7970s)

I found that single displays didn't really surface the issue as much (especially at 1080p). That I can only put down the the cards not working as hard as they could at the time, as such the frames were spat out in a fairly orderly fashion. Still that did more or less sort of defeat the purpose of having a big ass multi GPU setup, whats the point if you can't push it hard without having it go to pieces on you.

Still don't really have any concerns about recommending AMD cards for single card setups, much better price/performance in that department (especially here in Aus). I'm seriously hoping that the R9's knock some sense into Nvidia with regards to pricing, the cost at the moment is absurd.

 

[Frankie]

Titan does leave the 780 in the dust.

Your definition of "in the dust" seems pretty riduculous, tbh. IMO a card that has been "left in the dust" cannot surpass and exceed with merely a factory OC'd model, which the 780 does to a stock clocked Titan.

And again, you seem to be missing the real comparison

TITAN performance for LESS THAN 780 prices?

The real comparison is the 780. You're missing the point, over and over again. Factory OC 780s already provide TITAN performance for 780 PRICES. The only thing you added to the statement is the word "less" and how much less very much remains to be seen. So stating it like its ZOMG SO AMAZING is ridiculous. You're bragging up AMD for doing something that nvidia has already essentially done. Months ago. That's why hordes of AMD fans screaming "TITAN PERFORMANCE FOR 350 BUCKS LESS" = a stupid thing to focus on and harp about.

Your entire argument hinges on two things, price and OCability, neither of which we know about yet. If the 290 comes out at 649 and OCs like a compete turd, how is it any better than a HOF 780? It'd be 40 bucks cheaper, and quite possibly slower.

 

[Johnny26]

Counterpoint.
Nvidia surround DOES NOT WORK unless all 3 monitors are the EXACT SAME MODEL. My 7970 pushes my 3 mismatched 30" monitors in eyefinity just fine, it just isn't quite up to the task of pushing 12mil pixels at max settings. But at least I can make it turn on the fucking spanning.

You are not turning on the spanning, the drivers are simply flinging crap to see what sticks.

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

Your definition of "in the dust" seems pretty riduculous, tbh. IMO a card that has been "left in the dust" cannot surpass and exceed with merely a factory OC'd model, which the 780 does to a stock clocked Titan.



The real comparison is the 780. You're missing the point, over and over again. Factory OC 780s already provide TITAN performance for 780 PRICES. The only thing you added to the statement is the word "less" and how much less very much remains to be seen. So stating it like its ZOMG SO AMAZING is ridiculous. You're bragging up AMD for doing something that nvidia has already essentially done. Months ago. That's why hordes of AMD fans screaming "TITAN PERFORMANCE FOR 350 BUCKS LESS" = a stupid thing to focus on and harp about.

Your entire argument hinges on two things, price and OCability, neither of which we know about yet. If the 290 comes out at 649 and OCs like a compete turd, how is it any better than a HOF 780? It'd be 40 bucks cheaper, and quite possibly slower.

Fine, not in the dust, it beats it 100% of the time, does that make it better =)? And as far as OC-ability is concerned, there are plenty of people in the Titan thread hitting 1150-1175 without modding their bios to get more volts out of, and those that do are getting 1200-1300.

 

[NukeDukem]

No, because the HD 7970 is unusable due to crossfire issues... .

Why do nVidia trolls always feel the need to come crap on AMD threads with bogus LIES? You people really have nothing better to do than trash AMD threads to make yourselves feel better?

Pathetic.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Why do nVidia trolls always feel the need to come crap on AMD threads with bogus LIES? You people really have nothing better to do than trash AMD threads to make yourselves feel better?

Pathetic.

Up until AMD released a beta driver earlier this year- and that's been the only one- his statement has been true. And it's still mostly true- it's been a lot cheaper to set up a 3x1080p array than it has been to put a 27" or 30" monitor on your desk for most of the time that the HD79x0-series has been out; and those people are still SOL.

Hell, every [H] review that included Crossfire has noted the same- that they're experiencing less-fluid gameplay than the FPS reports indicate, while SLI has been spot-on.

And again, it's not like we don't want these issues fixed, or don't want AMD to succeed- we do! A failure here would be bad for everyone.

 

[Rizen]

Why do nVidia trolls always feel the need to come crap on AMD threads with bogus LIES? You people really have nothing better to do than trash AMD threads to make yourselves feel better?

Pathetic.

Have you been completely ignoring GPU news for the last year? Frame pacing issues are well noted and acknowledged by AMD and it wasn't until recently that they took any steps to address this. AMD cards are great, but NVIDIA still has a superior multi-GPU experience. Hopefully the Hawaii series has some hardware improvements to address this similar to what NVIDIA already employs.

 

[The Mac]

It wasnt a priority because xfire is a small portion of their total market. An even smaller portion of that market segment actually have stuttering issues.

Eventually the pro sites started making a stink, so they had no choice but to adress it from a PR standpoint.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

It wasnt a priority because xfire is a small portion of their total market. An even smaller portion of that market segment actually have stuttering issues.

Eventually the pro sites started making a stink, so they had no choice but to adress it from a PR standpoint.

Keep in mind that 'halo' products are incredibly important- both that they capture the attention of the market, and that they actually perform.

Corvettes, Mustangs, Camaros, M3's, what have you, are cars that don't make sense for most people and aren't bought by them- but they're expected to perform as they're marketed to.

Here AMD screwed up. They sold people on features that didn't work, and still don't work, the way they marketed them to work; and now, they're going to release a whole new line of products with the same features, while they haven't actually fixed the problems with the old ones!

Few companies are perfect, but AMD deserves the flak they're getting over this- and they will continue to deserve until the issues are verified as fixed by the community that they're selling to. I know not everyone buys a Corvette, and not everyone runs dual-GPU setups, but both should be fast!

 

[The Mac]

They worked fine, just not for eveyone.

They had bigger fish to fry.

Vocal minority and all finally started to effect the bottom line. It happens.

The reality is the people with xfire AND stuttering is a tiny fraction of thier sales.

Welcome to the reality of massive corporate markets...

 

[IdiotInCharge]

They worked fine, just not for eveyone.

They had bigger fish to fry.

Vocal minority and all finally started to effect the bottom line. It happens.

The reality is the people with xfire AND stuttering is a tiny fraction of thier sales.

Welcome to the reality of massive corporate markets...

I don't disagree with your reasoning of why they ignored the issues with their products- very real issues, mind you- but it doesn't make it any less damning.

The Titan is great PR for Nvidia- and their performance in SLI is stellar. Hell, you could easily put four under water on an X79 platform with Ivy-E and actually run high-end games at 4k, right now!

But you can't do that with AMD- even though this is one of their primary marketing points.

They need to fix this shit, period.

 

[The Mac]

SLI issues and nvidia driver issues in general arnet as rosy as you are making it out be.

just go look at forums guru3d, rag3d, overclock.net, or tpu.

lots of people with issues.

then of course there was the 8800 exploding card fiasco.

IMHO, AMD has always played the value card, so they tend to get the short end of the stick more often than not.

 

[Johnny26]

SLI issues and nvidia driver issues in general arnet as rosy as you are making it out be.

just go look at forums guru3d, rag3d, overclock.net, or tpu.

lots of people with issues.

then of course there was the 8800 exploding card fiasco.

IMHO, AMD has always played the value card, so they tend to get the short end of the stick more often than not.

great pics!

 

[WorldExclusive]

The pre-review trolls always show up just before a major launch, and then disappear right after.

 

[The Mac]

great pics!

yeah, one of my all-time faves...

i like to repost it periodically to remind the Nvidia camp they arent perfect...

im pretty moderate, ive owned both camps over the years, but the zealots irritate me...

this pic is double funny, because there is a rag on amd in there as well with the "No Driver"

 

[The Mac]

The Titan is great PR for Nvidia- and their performance in SLI is stellar. Hell, you could easily put four under water on an X79 platform with Ivy-E and actually run high-end games at 4k, right now!

Here ya go: http://www.maximumpc.com/dream_machine_2013

16K..ouch

and top 10 3dmark (most of the top 10 are nitro)

 

[IdiotInCharge]

this one is close: http://www.maximumpc.com/dream_machine_2013

That's really not that bad- I mean, if I wanted a computer that cost more than my last car . Still, such a product exists- and we're just clamoring for AMD to make sure that they're in that game too, like they (somewhat falsely) claim they are.

 

[The Mac]

4x titans under water is already half a car...lol

thats not a product, they built it from scratch...

mostly Gordon, hes really anal...

 

[IdiotInCharge]

4x titans under water is already half a car...lol

thats not a product, they built it from scratch...

mostly Gordon, hes really anal...

I see that- just finished reading the article (also listening to Ted Cruz filibuster the Senate). It's a nice build, really, and explores the possibilities well. The only sticking point I'm seeing is the lack of real exploration into the performance of the system, beyond the benchmarks. How does it handle a loaded BF3 server, for example? Stuff like that.

 

[The Mac]

thats not really its purpose...

raw gaming performance is...

The magazine (which used to be called Boot, changed in the 90s) is all about gaming enthusiast hardware and software

BF3 servers is a bit fringe...

 

[RamonGTP]

SLI issues and nvidia driver issues in general arnet as rosy as you are making it out be.

just go look at forums guru3d, rag3d, overclock.net, or tpu.

lots of people with issues.

then of course there was the 8800 exploding card fiasco.

IMHO, AMD has always played the value card, so they tend to get the short end of the stick more often than not.

They play the value card because they have to, not because they are doing it for the good of the enthusiast community, which is what many want to believe. Lets not forget what happened when they tried to play the premium card with the 7970.

 

[NickJames]

SLI issues and nvidia driver issues in general arnet as rosy as you are making it out be.

just go look at forums guru3d, rag3d, overclock.net, or tpu.

lots of people with issues.

then of course there was the 8800 exploding card fiasco.

http://imageshack.us/a/img90/3144/amdvsnvidiabyspritanium.jpg

IMHO, AMD has always played the value card, so they tend to get the short end of the stick more often than not.

Holy shit I hadn't seen that before, I laughed so god damn hard.

 

[fanboy]

I've never thought alot about Intel chipsets since x58 and some of the blame for CX/Sli issues could be the result of Intel ..

Also i'm 100% sure Intel gives AMD the UP-MOST surport they need in making drivers for any new chipset. LMAO

 

[The Mac]

They play the value card because they have to, not because they are doing it for the good of the enthusiast community, which is what many want to believe. Lets not forget what happened when they tried to play the premium card with the 7970.

i have a 7970, and have zero issues...its very powerful...

it was a nice step up from my 6970

im not sure what you are getting at here...

 

[The Mac]

Holy shit I hadn't seen that before, I laughed so god damn hard.

funny stuff, but if you didnt know about the 8800, its not as funny as it could be....

 

[GoldenTiger]

i have a 7970, and have zero issues...its very powerful...

it was a nice step up from my 6970

im not sure what you are getting at here...

They got outsold 3 to 1 or more by all accounts last time they tried to play premium with their pricing is what he means. Nvidia released a card at the time 50 bucks cheaper and higher performance by around 5 to 10 percent forcing amd to make huge price drops where they still moved cards slowly until recently.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

BF3 servers is a bit fringe...

I hope you caught that I meant playing on them, not 'serving' them- but it's all good .

The point there is that playing on a full BF3 server with a lot of crap going on is one of the most intense things that a modern gaming computer is faced with. And that's where I want to see these four-GPU setups get punished and rated. No single-player game is really going to give you a feel for that- especially not single-player BF3!