AM4 chipsets and APU information.

I do like the idea to split the slot bandwidth, which allows you to build an ultra-small system (4x USB, 2x SATA, one dedicated, potentially several m.2 slots) without a chipset. Those other two PCIe slots can handle network and sound.

I do hope Zen will have more than just 8 lanes hanging off those eight cores :D
 
defaultluser said:
I do like the idea to split the slot bandwidth, which allows you to build an ultra-small system (4x USB, 2x SATA, one dedicated, potentially several m.2 slots) without a chipset. Those other two PCIe slots can handle network and sound.

I do hope Zen will have more than just 8 lanes hanging off those eight cores :D
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Agreed. Probably a safe bet that Zen supports plenty more. They are also still being coy about the high end AM4 chipset.
 
Zen will have 24 lanes, same as the kaveri, except it uses PCIe 4x for the optional chipset instead of UMI. So, 20 usable lanes. Really makes me wonder wtf all the extra pins are being used for. The integrated usb3.1 and 2 sata ports dont use anywhere near the difference.

The actual zen die has 32 lanes, and a coherency fabric bus port, tho that won't be connected to am4 more likely its for server mcm modules.
 
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luminousone said:
Zen will have 24 lanes, same as the kaveri, except it uses PCIe 4x for the optional chipset instead of UMI. So, 20 usable lanes. Really makes me wonder wtf all the extra pins are being used for. The integrated usb3.1 and 2 sata ports dont use anywhere near the difference.

The actual zen die has 32 lanes, and a coherency fabric bus port, tho that won't be connected to am4 more likely its for server mcm modules.
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This is what I find confusing, somewhat. Since they haven't released info on the enthusiast platform (=990FX platform level) can we expect more PCI-e lanes? We had 38 on 990FX. 24 is perfectly fine for single card users(GPU). But SLI/CF users are gonna want more even if we haven't quite saturated PCI-E 3.0 yet.
 
This is how Zen will look. Think LGA 11xx. (Yes its FM3 in the diagram before it got renamed to AM4). The only change is more or less just x8 being x16 besides the option of using an x4 M.2 SSD instead of x2. I guess the X370 chipset will offer 8 PCIe 2.0 lanes, up from 6 from the B350.
AMD-Summit-Ridge-1.jpg
 
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JustReason said:
This is what I find confusing, somewhat. Since they haven't released info on the enthusiast platform (=990FX platform level) can we expect more PCI-e lanes? We had 38 on 990FX. 24 is perfectly fine for single card users(GPU). But SLI/CF users are gonna want more even if we haven't quite saturated PCI-E 3.0 yet.
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I suspect the engineers are reaching their limits on how to move more data per clock work. This is why we are not seeing vast improvements on new generation of processors. AMD is still playing catch up to Intel. Intel is going to milk their customers for all the money per processor maturation of improved revisions. This is largely why I picked up a used LGA 1366 system. I do not need to spend $1500 to obtain the latest CPU/Mobo/Memory combo.
 
I wonder if socket sp4/sp4r2 will be used for an enthusiast platform as well as low/mid end servers. I have an upgrade coming up early next year, looking more and more like I will end up on a dual 2011v3 setup of some sort. Running on a10-7850k atm, and its painful how slow this thing gets running intellij, android studio, visual studio. Damn it AMD I need more pcie lanes, and don't require but have great preference for more memory channels!!!!
 
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Something is off, why would the chipset matter?!, the lanes for the gpu come from the CPU not the chipset.
 
luminousone said:
Something is off, why would the chipset matter?!, the lanes for the gpu come from the CPU not the chipset.
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Well, the Chipset provides a baseline PCI-E interface. Intel does things differently, where ALL of the PCI-E comes from the CPU.
 

Crosspost from /r/AMD, Gigabyte will be releasing a B350 board (mainstream) at the end of September in South Korea alongside Bristol Ridge cpus, at least according to the OP of the thread.
Let me translate again since I'm a Korean

They designed this motherboard with thoughts of supporting Zen later, so PCIe x16 is wired for PCIe x16 while Bristol Ridge only provides x8.

4+3 Phase power, quite beefy for 65W solution

Crossfire/SLI support is unconfirmed, but x16/x4 Crossfire for Zen will be on the board

Uses same mounting holes as AM3+/FM2+ socket, so Wraith cooler is compatible.

Initial BIOS only supports upto 2400MHz, unlike the previous information which was thought to support 3000MHz, this may have to do with this motherboard having engineering sample chipset.

To be released at end of September starting availability in South Korea

insidelogo.php

Korean Source: 세계 최초 AM4 플랫폼 메인보드, 최신 인터페이스 적용 기가바이트 B350M-DS3H 0 : 기사 - 아이폰, 갤럭시S, 안드로이드 스마트폰을 위한 보드나라 모바일
 
Its obviously 2x8, not 2x16 as the AMD fan site added to the chipset information.
 
The chipset is connected via a pcie 4x interface, It is known that summit ridge has exactly 32lanes on the die, and current specs from AMD put 24 lanes wired on the am4 socket.

AM4 also has 4 lanes used for dual use sata/sataexpress/m.2 ports(1 4x, or 2 2x ports). Even if all the lanes are wired that would only get us to 24 gpu lanes, I am thinken shintai is correct, they must be using a plx switch to have 1x16 or 2x8.

Granted their is a fair number more pins on the socket, and their use has not as of yet been fully accounted for. Its also possible the replacement for hyper-transport, their new cache coherency bus is wired in the socket, and maybe they can use it for extra lanes. Or they are reserved for future use?!?, Everything i have read makes it sound like FM2+ with ddr4 and some sata/usb ports wired directly into the cpu.
 
Exactly. Its 2x8 PCIe 3.0 for graphics.

Pieter3dnow said:
You must be right they just make AM4 chipset with features they can't use that is the standard ...
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Could you show me where AMD says that 2x16 PCIe 3.0 wired is supported directly from the CPU, and not a fan site? :)
 
Shintai said:
Exactly. Its 2x8 PCIe 3.0 for graphics.



Could you show me where AMD says this, and not a fan site? :)
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Could you link me the exact information about summit ridge and the confirmation about the PCiE lanes and the X370 chipset, please ? The information from AMD not from anywhere else ?
 
Pieter3dnow said:
Could you link me the exact information about summit ridge and the confirmation about the PCiE lanes and the X370 chipset, please ? The information from AMD not from anywhere else ?
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What does the chipset have to do with a CPU and socket limitation?
 
Next-gen AMD platform: processor-direct NVMe storage, USB 3.1, Promontory PCH

Old info is all anyone is going on, AMD has been tight lipped!, Not to say that more lanes are not possible, their are close to 400 extra pins that could be used, but that would put am4 at 36lanes not 32, you still need 4 for the optional chipset. And this would cut out any extra lanes being used for nvme/sataexpress or other devices, I can't image they would do that, you take a performance hit reading from nvme devices connected on intel's pch, I can't imagine the 4x shared connection on AMD's x370 would do any better.
 
Just the same info posted above, which still begs the question, wtf does the chipset have todo with cpu pcie lanes.
 
Nobified[H] said:
I suspect the engineers are reaching their limits on how to move more data per clock work. This is why we are not seeing vast improvements on new generation of processors. AMD is still playing catch up to Intel. Intel is going to milk their customers for all the money per processor maturation of improved revisions. This is largely why I picked up a used LGA 1366 system. I do not need to spend $1500 to obtain the latest CPU/Mobo/Memory combo.
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A $600-700 budget system of X99 w/ 6800k will destroy your 1366......... Just as FYI though :)
 
doz said:
A $600-700 budget system of X99 w/ 6800k will destroy your 1366......... Just as FYI though :)
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Your wallet must be nice! *winks* My wallet is a straight up bitch that moans full of anguish! Don't get me wrong, I would love an updated mobo/cpu/ddr4. The factor is, I am NOT willing to spend that MUCH money for something that get used now and then. I will be happy to buy yours used in a few years after a price drop of sub $200.

My X58/CPU was picked up via hardforums, total investment of actual dollars $125 total! The mobo is 6 months old, cpu a few years old used. Much better than my FX6300 by far!
 
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Nobified[H] said:
Your wallet must be nice! *winks* My wallet is a straight up bitch that moans full of anguish! Don't get me wrong, I would love an updated mobo/cpu/ddr4. The factor is, I am NOT willing to spend that MUCH money for something that get used now and then. I will be happy to buy yours used in a few years after a price drop of sub $200.

My X58/CPU was picked up via hardforums, total investment of actual dollars $125 total! The mobo is 6 months old, cpu a few years old used. Much better than my FX6300 by far!
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And that is perfectly acceptable but do not think you wont see a huge boost in performance from the upgrade. If you want to buy used, you can get a 6 core x99 setup for under under $500 if you pick your deals :) You claim there are not vast improvements but the largest improvement was made just after the 1366 platform. Since then, they have made very minimal adjustments to the line over the years just to help performance slightly. To say though that there have not been vast improvements is not true ESPECIALLY since 1366.
 
doz said:
And that is perfectly acceptable but do not think you wont see a huge boost in performance from the upgrade. If you want to buy used, you can get a 6 core x99 setup for under under $500 if you pick your deals :) You claim there are not vast improvements but the largest improvement was made just after the 1366 platform. Since then, they have made very minimal adjustments to the line over the years just to help performance slightly. To say though that there have not been vast improvements is not true ESPECIALLY since 1366.
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Correct, let me be specific, why I did the X58 system? My FX6300 with GTX980 was running at 28fps!!!! The older X58 with W3670 mated with GTX980 runs ARMA 3 at 48 fps on shitty servers. $125 solved my issue, like I said above...would like a newer faster system. People say about the GTX980 costs...I purchased a pair for $280 sold one GTX980 nearly for $270. It costed me $10 to get one GTX980. I would call that a bargain deal for my wallet. I am not spending $500 on the system you suggested, $200 is my limit. I am getting off the topic here on the thread.....its points to this issue. What are we getting our money worth for newer system, when they are only slightly faster at a ginormous cost to obtain the privilege to own one?

Last point, I can't even get rid of my AMD system I have left over 990fx board, fx6300 and asus 970 board. People don't want them unless I am willing to sell it for $20.
 
I just noticed the AM4 APU are still using R7 gpu dies! NOT INTERESTED! I wish I was the CEO of AMD, a lot of those people would be fired on day one! :eek: This frustrates me, the doggy mindset that runs AMD into the ground!
 
Nobified[H] said:
I just noticed the AM4 APU are still using R7 gpu dies! NOT INTERESTED! I wish I was the CEO of AMD, a lot of those people would be fired on day one! :eek: This frustrates me, the doggy mindset that runs AMD into the ground!
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I think these chips are still 28nm so not much room for R9. Zen @14nm could reasonable get 290 capable GPU.
 
JustReason said:
I think these chips are still 28nm so not much room for R9. Zen @14nm could reasonable get 290 capable GPU.
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That is fine, I get it...my point...AMD better get off it's ass and do something big and impressive or lose market shares due to their incompetency of understanding of what really is going on.

APU AM4 using R7....I am NOT a BUYER! <--- I reject this product, this is the problem with AMD. They are only worried about the cookie crumbs on the floor.

Trust me folks, I am an AMD fanboy....This is just another decade of nightmares dead ahead!

AMD beat intel at one time, where is their motivation or ability to change the game? WTF is wrong with these people running AMD? Corporate mindset is their doggy shit hole! AMD can't afford to continue massing crunching debt!

If you look at that article, the I3 is kicking the AM4!!!
 
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Why would R9 APU do any difference if the limitation is elsewhere.

Also the first Zen APU is Q4 2017 or later.
 
Shintai said:
Why would R9 APU do any difference if the limitation is elsewhere.

Also the first Zen APU is Q4 2017 or later.
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:hungover: I guess I will start setting funds aside for Intel then....This is the end for AMD. Q4 2017....AMD can't wait that long. I am going to dump my AMD stocks.

Sorry, I sounded like a bitch....I am just realistic of reality. AMD is done, they should focus on better GPU cards and leave the CPU market. I should probably scoop up some old AMD cpus to keep for increased of value when AMD goes out or leaves the CPU market.

:(
 
Nobified[H]
The Zen APUs won't be out till the end of 2017. The AM4 APUs that you're reading about are Bristol Ridge, and are Excavator cores. In other words, it's an AM3 CPU packaged with APU graphics, given a DDR4 memory controller, and rolled out onto the AM4 socket. There's an entire year to wait before we will see Zen APUs, and I'm sure they'll have a Polaris core for the GPU, so you'll probably see something like "FX104 w/ RX GPU" (I don't know where their model nomenclature is going, but like my laptop having an FX-9800p, I doubt they'll use FX-10400p).

There's plenty of time for them to get their APU cobbled together with a nice GPU, so no sense getting your panties in a wad just yet lol
 
luminousone said:
Just the same info posted above, which still begs the question, wtf does the chipset have todo with cpu pcie lanes.
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I admit that I'm not as savvy about this all as some (though I did get some stuff right in my X370 prediction, specifically that it'd be called X370 heh) but from what I've read, the Zen architecture is a rather different animal in terms of how they're approaching the motherboard side of things [the I/O portion]. When I made my initial post I was much of your mindset, of "how will they manage to have 'chipset' levels when Zen is a SoC?", but as details trickled in that somewhat has been clarified. I mean, it's still odd and perplexing, but it kinda clicks now. Basically as I understand it, a Zen chip will be a very basic SoC and capable of doing what is needed for a system to operate. Namely, in terms of 'chipset' items, it'll have like 16x PCIe Gen3 lanes (I figure it'll have v3.1), and I believe 2x USB 3.1, 4x USB 2.0, 2x SATA, and then 8x PCIe Gen2 (probably v2.1 for compatibility) lanes for general purpose usage of onboard components (LAN, WiFi, audio, etc). Now again, as I understand it, this will basically grant you the ability to have a bare-bones ITX board that only needs a CPU and graphics card to function. In essence, the motherboard on these Zens seems to be little more than a Port Replicator/Expander Hub

As we know, AM3+ chips lacked those middle goodies, and you only had like 42 PCIe lanes with 4x of those were used to communicate with the Southbridge, leaving 38 usable lanes. But that southbridge provided all the I/O interfacing.

Zen mixes that up it seems, by having the 'southbridge' providing additional PCIe lanes to the slots, but NOT ones for graphics. AMD's idea was that the GPUs would utilize the 16 on the CPU, and I think it was AMD actual who mentioned that if dual GPUs @ x16 wants to be used, then mobo makers can use a PLX to split those 16x Gen3 lanes. At any rate, I suspect that the 'southbridge' supplied board slots will then be PCIe Gen2 spec since it's a Gen2 interface feeding it on the CPU.

Now comparing what I had understood (the above text) to that picture posted above in post #66 (which is from March 2015, but likely still accurate despite saying "preliminary"), that appears to line up for the most part, except it's adding an additional 4x PCIe Gen3 for the Chipset Link (just like AM3) as well as "2 Gen3" (presumably two 'x1 width') lanes for General Purpose, all on the CPU. Also saying those 8 Gen2's are for General Purpose and are actually exclusive to the 'southbridge' (Promontory), not on the CPU at all. Which again lends a bit of credit to classifying the motherboards as a "Port Replicator/Expander Hub", since it's taking the x4 Gen3 link and slicing it up for various things.

Now to answer "wtf does the chipset have to do with the cpu pcie lanes?"
Nothing specifically from an architecture standpoint, but does from a motherboard configuration standpoint.

In all likelihood that x4 link for the chipset is locked for usage solely in that regard and not addressable; however, I suspect it IS still included in the chip specs as 4 PCIe lanes. But speculation is that the Zen has 32 lanes? If we go off of what's ONLY on those March 2015 slides (posts 47 and 66), how many do we have? 4 for Chipset, 2 for GP use, 4 for NVMe (shared with the 2x SATA 3.0 ports, so "either/or", otherwise 2 SATA and 2 GP lanes)), 16 for Graphics. Thus far we have 26 lanes. I assume that the USB support is native, but for the sake of not ruling out anything, each 5Gbit would be theoretically capable of 625mb/s, and if you consider a 3.1 and 2.0 are paired then that'd be a single lane. There are 4 of each, which gives us 4 more lanes, bringing it to a new total of 30. Leaving 2 to be hiding somewhere if that's the case. Curiously though, if you stick with that 30, and factor in those 8 GP Gen2 lanes that the chipset adds, we oddly enough end up with... 38 lanes, which is almost what AM3 has total (42, IIRC).

Alas, 22 to 26 total on the CPU is more realistic based on the evidence we have (depending whether or not you count the chipset link's 4).

Part of me hopes this is a stepping stone, and that later on there will be more lanes added to the Zen line, but PRIOR to Zen+. Part of me hopes that isn't really the case, because there'd be outcry at AMD for AM4 socket being universal, and then we end up with chips with more lanes that won't be able to be utilized unless you buy a new motherboard.
At the end of the day, whether or not it has the same socket doesn't quite matter much in the grand scheme of it all, if a person has to buy a new chip and motherboard to gain more PCIe, and is more or less what Intel did with their socket changes.


(As a side note, this post really didn't turn out quite how I wanted it to, and I debated scrapping it entirely, but I don't really have a reputation to uphold... here we are! lol Nevertheless, I apologize for it being such a cluster frack.)
 
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