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Alpha Protocol Discussion Here:

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Parmenides said:
The genre (spy RPG) doesn't interest me too much, but I have a great respect for the stuff Obsidian puts out. If I hear great things from players I'll give it a whirl. It'll probably surpass my expectations for a spy RPG game.
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Exactly my thoughts.
 
Q-BZ said:
What I'm expecting is basically a Mass Effect clone (not a bad thing) with its own wrinkles. My gut tells me to expect to see review scores somewhere along the lines of probably a lot of 7/10s, maybe a few strays 6/10s, and maybe an 8/10 here and there if we're lucky.

I hope this is a good game.
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If Alpha Protocol is nothing more than a Mass Effect clone then for me it's not a real RPG, which is what I was led to believe. I don't actually think of Mass Effect as being an RPG, since every character you create plays virtually the same as any other. (I love seeing people at the Mass Effect forums telling us about their 'builds' - as if it even matters!)

In Oblivion I can create a stealth character (using arrows) which will be completely different than a fighter character (using swords) which will be completely different than a wizard character (using spells) - my approach to playing the game would have to adjust accordingly for each of those three characters: That's a true RPG.

I was led to believe that Alpha Protocol would be like that - if it's not... well, then I was led down the garden path.
 
WabeWalker said:
If Alpha Protocol is nothing more than a Mass Effect clone then for me it's not a real RPG, which is what I was led to believe. I don't actually think of Mass Effect as being an RPG, since every character you create plays virtually the same as any other. (I love seeing people at the Mass Effect forums telling us about their 'builds' - as if it even matters!)

In Oblivion I can create a stealth character (using arrows) which will be completely different than a fighter character (using swords) which will be completely different than a wizard character (using spells) - my approach to playing the game would have to adjust accordingly for each of those three characters: That's a true RPG.

I was led to believe that Alpha Protocol would be like that - if it's not... well, then I was led down the garden path.
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and you didn't like Dragon Age? As long as you stay away from AI exploits like pulling, you get that sort of gameplay depending upon your party makeup and your class.
 
Parmenides said:
and you didn't like Dragon Age? As long as you stay away from AI exploits like pulling, you get that sort of gameplay depending upon your party makeup and your class.
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Ten years ago we wouldn't even have had this debate - no way would any RPG enthusiast have said that Mass Effect, in its present state, is a real RPG.

In Neverwinter Nights, and in Baldur's Gate, you have to learn about your character - you're never going to succeed as a wizard in BG unless you know your spells.

Every character you create in Mass Effect 2 is pretty much just going to be shooting stuff. Mass Effect is really just a shooter, with a few RPG elements tossed in.

If that's Alpha Protocol, then I'll be disappointed. I want my stealth guy to be able to get away without having to resort to constant gun violence. If I can't circumvent the constant gun violence - bang, bang, bang... as though it's some kind of a porno film - then what's the point in playing as a stealth character? None at all.

A true RPG would make it so that the characters are diverse.

Diverse. That's our new word for the day.
 
WabeWalker said:
If Alpha Protocol is nothing more than a Mass Effect clone then for me it's not a real RPG, which is what I was led to believe. I don't actually think of Mass Effect as being an RPG, since every character you create plays virtually the same as any other. (I love seeing people at the Mass Effect forums telling us about their 'builds' - as if it even matters!)
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I guess it just comes down to meaning of terms for people.

I think I have a broader definition for an RPG although I certainly would classify the ME games, and especially part 2, as action games with RPG elements although barely any in part 2.


That being said: I never looked at Alpha Protocol as a "RPG" going into it.

In Oblivion I can create a stealth character (using arrows) which will be completely different than a fighter character (using swords) which will be completely different than a wizard character (using spells) - my approach to playing the game would have to adjust accordingly for each of those three characters: That's a true RPG.
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You certainly are setting yourself up for needless disappointment if you really had any idea that AP was going to be anything like this.


I was led to believe that Alpha Protocol would be like that - if it's not... well, then I was led down the garden path.
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I think you were because I never had that idea myself.





WabeWalker said:
Ten years ago we wouldn't even have had this debate - no way would any RPG enthusiast have said that Mass Effect, in its present state, is a real RPG.
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Agreed.

It's an action RPG at best. Part 2 is basically a straight up action game with maybe a couple of light RPG winks in it.


In Neverwinter Nights, and in Baldur's Gate, you have to learn about your character - you're never going to succeed as a wizard in BG unless you know your spells.
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I continue to be surprised that you dislike Dragon Age so strongly given examples like these.


Every character you create in Mass Effect 2 is pretty much just going to be shooting stuff. Mass Effect is really just a shooter, with a few RPG elements tossed in.
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Agreed and I think that's what AP is going to be as well.



If that's Alpha Protocol, then I'll be disappointed.
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I'd all but guarantee it.


I want my stealth guy to be able to get away without having to resort to constant gun violence. If I can't circumvent the constant gun violence - bang, bang, bang... as though it's some kind of a porno film - then what's the point in playing as a stealth character? None at all.
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I've had this kind of complaint for a while and not confined to one genre. Real stealth gameplay is practically dead it seems.


A true RPG would make it so that the characters are diverse.

Diverse. That's our new word for the day.
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Diversity is another concept basically in critical condition.



All this being said: Obsidian deserves the benefit of the doubt and a vote of confidence going into it. I hope my previous post expecting just a hair above mediocrity is proven incorrect. I really want this to be a good game.
 
Hit up 16:40 for some impressions. I do have to say, this is (judging by the videos at least) one of the uglier titles I've seen in a while...
 
quadnad said:
Hit up 16:40 for some impressions. I do have to say, this is (judging by the videos at least) one of the uglier titles I've seen in a while...
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Definitely not impressed with the graphics but I'm pretty forgiving on that score if the game delivers the goods on features and gameplay.
 
WabeWalker said:
TI want my stealth guy to be able to get away without having to resort to constant gun violence. If I can't circumvent the constant gun violence - bang, bang, bang... as though it's some kind of a porno film - then what's the point in playing as a stealth character?
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Not conclusive proof of proper RPG status, but http://kotaku.com/5468587/alpha-protocol-impressions-looks-deceive has this paragraph:
Yes, It Can Be Won Without A Trigger Finger: As reported last year, Alpha Protocol can be cleared using 100% non-lethal means. The Sega producer said that you can do one better than finishing a Metal Gear Solid with just use of a tranquilizer gun. Someone from the development team cleared the game using only close quarters combat. It was described as "very challenging."
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IanM said:
Not conclusive proof of proper RPG status, but http://kotaku.com/5468587/alpha-protocol-impressions-looks-deceive has this paragraph:
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This is an interesting read. Thanks. The writer from that website is obviously correct in saying that you can't possibly judge an RPG unless you've played the entire thing.

And, guys, the graphics aren't nearly as bad as some of you are saying - the ugliest game in the past five years... that's an exaggeration.

Okay, if you don't like the look of the Unreal engine (I have no idea why, but a lot of people don't) then you're probably not going to like the look of this game much either - but then some people said that Mirror's Edge was ugly... say what? I thought the geometry of Mirror's Edge, and the way the colors were used, was fantastic. I believed the same about Rainbow Six Vegas 2 - the sports complex level was amazing.

If you want to find out what an ugly game is then go buy Quantum of Solace - now THAT'S an ugly game. That's a game that actually does look like it's five years old. Or even the latest Tomb Raider game - it's blocky looking.
 
The person who wrote that "Fallout 3 is Oblivion with guns" really needs to be taken out and shot. Now every game is being compared to some other similarly.

"If Alpha Protocol is Mass Effect with spies", wrote one person in the comments section of that linked article above, "then I am down."

Fallout 3 is Oblivion with guns. Alpha Protocol is Mass Effect with spies. Red Dead Redemption is GTA 4 with horses... blah, blah, blah.
 
Wabe you really seem to be setting yourself up for disappointment, almost needlessly so.

I think of AP as more of a Deus Ex or Hitman type game. There are some differing points and added features but I still think the comparison to those 2 are pretty valid. Hell it really seems like a mixture of the two really.
 
WabeWalker said:
And, guys, the graphics aren't nearly as bad as some of you are saying - the ugliest game in the past five years... that's an exaggeration.

Okay, if you don't like the look of the Unreal engine (I have no idea why, but a lot of people don't) then you're probably not going to like the look of this game much either - but then some people said that Mirror's Edge was ugly... say what? I thought the geometry of Mirror's Edge, and the way the colors were used, was fantastic. I believed the same about Rainbow Six Vegas 2 - the sports complex level was amazing.

If you want to find out what an ugly game is then go buy Quantum of Solace - now THAT'S an ugly game. That's a game that actually does look like it's five years old. Or even the latest Tomb Raider game - it's blocky looking.
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You don't have to blame it on UE -- mass effect is based on UE and looks significantly better, and that's one of many UE games that look better. Mirror's Edge didn't point to technical limitations to me either, rather that the sparse look is part of the art style. Even the old texture buffering issue looks like it's there (you can see it in the weapon select and character creation menus really badly), and the models look pretty low poly. I'm not going to write the game off just because of that, but I think it's worth noting.
 
quadnad said:
You don't have to blame it on UE -- mass effect is based on UE and looks significantly better, and that's one of many UE games that look better. Mirror's Edge didn't point to technical limitations to me either, rather that the sparse look is part of the art style. Even the old texture buffering issue looks like it's there (you can see it in the weapon select and character creation menus really badly), and the models look pretty low poly. I'm not going to write the game off just because of that, but I think it's worth noting.
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I think you've misunderstood me - I actually like the Unreal Engine.
 
Riftsaw said:
Wabe you really seem to be setting yourself up for disappointment, almost needlessly so.

I think of AP as more of a Deus Ex or Hitman type game. There are some differing points and added features but I still think the comparison to those 2 are pretty valid. Hell it really seems like a mixture of the two really.
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Yes! This is exactly what I had thought too.

Which is why I don't understand the Mass Effect comparison - isn't Mass Effect 2 really just a shooter with some RPG elements tossed in? Based on what I had read about Alpha Protocol I had assumed it would be a slightly more RPG heavy version of Deus Ex.
 
This game came up in the latest episode of Rebel FM as, paraphrased, "no-one who's tried it think it's any good." (comes up almost exactly 60 minutes into the podcast)
 
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Speaking on the graphics: If they aren't pushing the game graphically they may have put that effort towards the story/dialog or customization elements.

The graphics look around Hitman: Blood Money level though AP looks smoother and looks to have more IQ effects at its disposal. Character detail and geometry looks better in AP IMO. I just hope they allow AA on PC.

Hitman Blood Money Pic

Alpha Protocol Pic

They both look pretty good to me. The graphics don't "pop" like Bad Company 2 or Mass Effect 2 but I'd need to see more explosions and effects videos from AP to confirm that judgement though.
 
eloj said:
This game came up in the latest episode of Rebel FM as, paraphrased, "no-one who's tried it think it's any good." (comes up almost exactly 60 minutes into the podcast)
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If true, could it spell trouble for Obsidian since they haven't had massive success in recent memory?
 
WabeWalker said:
I think you've misunderstood me - I actually like the Unreal Engine.
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I understood you fine, you're saying that those who dislike the visuals might be turned off because it's running UE -- I'm saying there are many UE games that look way better than this.
 
eloj said:
This game came up in the latest episode of Rebel FM as, paraphrased, "no-one who's tried it think it's any good." (comes up almost exactly 60 minutes into the podcast)
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I'm not hearing it. Went to the link and listened from 55 to 1:01 and I heard nothing of AP. Exactly which podcast are you referencing.
 
Wait a minute - everyone who has played Alpha Protocol doesn't like it?

Who are these people?
 
Sure, I'd waste me time doing that when we both know that it doesn't matter to you who these guys are or even who their sources are. You're either lazy or disingenuous, either way I have nothing to gain by engaging with you.
 
eloj said:
Sure, I'd waste me time doing that when we both know that it doesn't matter to you who these guys are or even who their sources are. You're either lazy or disingenuous, either way I have nothing to gain by engaging with you.
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In other words, it's bullshit.
 
A thought:

Disregarding the many paths the story/dialog can take how many different styles of play are there? '

We know that there are lethal and non-lethal ways of dispatching enemies but are ghost runs of missions possible? By ghost run I mean completing a mission's objectives without engaging or engaging the bare minimum of enemies possible.

Is it possible to simply talk and bluff your way through most of a mission?

Are there other non-lethal or less lethal ways to dispatch enemies aside from H2H?

Despite the less than 2 and a half weeks away release date I don't feel like I have much information on this game. Maybe I haven't been looking hard enough.
 
WabeWalker said:
Wait a minute - everyone who has played Alpha Protocol doesn't like it?

Who are these people?
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I read a preview on the most recent PC Gamer (the one with SC2 on the cover) the article implies a complete playthrough, they said it was a blast. The only real gripe they had was that most of the enemies are largely the same except the boss battles. However they did note that there are so many unique ways of handling situations and taking down the enemies that it didn't really matter.
 
But are we going to give the game a chance, or are we going to trash it without ever having played a single minute of it?

These so-called 'professional journalists' who have played some of the game, and are saying that they hated it (see above), can't be very professional, since any RPG gamer will tell you that in order to judge an RPG you really need to spend at least ten hours with it (at least that) to understand the dynamics of your character.

Any gaming writer who dismisses an RPG, having spent just a few minutes playing it, isn't a professional writer. Which is why I wanted to know who these people were, and how much time they had spent playing the game? The guy above told me to stop being so lazy and Google it - that's just utter bullshit. The people on this podcast, if they're going to shit on a game like this, need to state their source clearly. If they're just going to say... "Oh, a bunch of people in the media have already played this game and didn't like it"... then they're full of horse shit.

Where's the review for Alpha Protocol written by a person who has played the game? So now we're going to pass judgement on games without playing them, or without even reading a single review?

Did anybody here ever listen to the old GFW podcast? Shawn Elliott used to talk about this all the time - the way some people posting on the internet can't wait to be critical of a game... they just want to hate something and be the first to do it.
 
I queried the lack pre-order bonuses for the PC version with GAME (the UK retailer) and they confirmed that there are no bonuses. Presumably this odd decision only affects the UK, but maybe the rest of the EU region too? Anyway, if the bonuses are must have it looks like import will be the way to go.
 
I checked a big retailer here and they aren't showing any pre-order bonuses either.
 
The reviews and opinions I'm seeing are pretty polarized. Its either love it or hate it. Its been leaked and some stores have broken street date as well. There was a live feed up too.

I think the guy completed it in one sitting...
 
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