Ageia PhysX "launched"

Dell's XPS 600 has the PhysX as a $250 upgrade option. Preliminary ship date: 3/29/06

Edit: Also on Alienware for $275
As the world’s first physics processing unit, the PhysX processor is now available on Alienware’s Area-51 7500, Aurora 7500, and ALX systems, combining with the CPU and GPU to permanently transform how you experience games.
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great, so which games will take advantage of it?

IMHO Ageia has two marketing options for this beast:

1. give the first amount of card away at a significant loss in order to generate demand for games that support it.

2. get some software makers to produce (remake older?) games with the physX engine, to create a demand for cards that will run the games. Best to give these games with the card (bundle) in order to get people to buy them.

I don't see many people jumping on the cards without games and vice versa, especially if they do not offer a 'software' alternative, since no game producing company is going to reduce their target audience to just the people with PhysX cards, at least in the short-term.
 
from shacknews:

The company also says that over a hundred games from sixty different companies including Epic Games, Ubisoft, SEGA and NCSoft will be supporting the AGEIA PhysX processor. Specific games announced as supporting the PPU include City of Villains, Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter for the PC, Unreal Tournament 2007, Rise of Nations: Rise of Legends and Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. Here's how the PhysX PPU will help G.R.A.W.
 
Even though I like this idea, no way in hell am I going to fork out another $200-300 just for a PhysX card.
 
Killa_2327 said:
Even though I like this idea, no way in hell am I going to fork out another $200-300 just for a PhysX card.
Click to expand...
QFT...unless you are building a monster rig that will last ~5 years.
 
Killa_2327 said:
Even though I like this idea, no way in hell am I going to fork out another $200-300 just for a PhysX card.
Click to expand...

Indeed, and since Nvidia and Havock are suppoed to be showing off a physics engine that runs on any SM3.0 Nvidia GPU this week, you're 'old' GF6 and 7 series cards might find themselves a home as physics co-processors after your next GPU upgrade. (SLI motherboard required of course, but still cheaper than a physX card right now).
 
FreiDOg said:
Indeed, and since Nvidia and Havock are suppoed to be showing off a physics engine that runs on any SM3.0 Nvidia GPU this week, you're 'old' GF6 and 7 series cards might find themselves a home as physics co-processors after your next GPU upgrade. (SLI motherboard required of course, but still cheaper than a physX card right now).
Click to expand...
QFT-That's the most interesting thing of this whole Nv/Havoc issue: Using older cards as physics co-processors. Right now, current documentation says that the cards have to be in SLI mode and then driver options allow one to be designated as the PPU. Since that card is not actually doing any gfx rendering, and is just processing physics, I don't see a reason that it needs to be the same as the gfx card. IMO, drivers will eventually add support for running a say, 7900GTX as the video card and that 'old' 7800GT that you bought as the physics card. If that happens, Agiea (sp?) may have problems selling their stuff unless it really kicks you know what.


***Oh, and if my clairvoyant gift is accurate, prepare for a whole new set of complicated and downright dense benchmarks. There is now the possiblity of running cards in SLI, SLI with one as a PPU, single GPU with a PPU, SLI with a seperate PPU, in addition to all the derivatives that we already have. If it does turn out that Nv and ATI are able to make older cards run as PPU's with driver updates, then there will be the whole issue of how all the existing cards perform as PPU's (especially the aging ones since they will be losing usefulness as a GPU). This could be as exciting as when 3Dfx invented the hardware accelrated gfx processor.
 
FreiDOg said:
Indeed, and since Nvidia and Havock are suppoed to be showing off a physics engine that runs on any SM3.0 Nvidia GPU this week, you're 'old' GF6 and 7 series cards might find themselves a home as physics co-processors after your next GPU upgrade. (SLI motherboard required of course, but still cheaper than a physX card right now).
Click to expand...

Not to be a troll, but I beg to differ. Here is what it would cost me to implement each solution.

Ageia cost:
Ageia PhysX Card: $250
Total: $250

Nvidia/Havok cost:
ASUS A8n32SLI: $219
eVGA 7900GT : $319 ea. (x2)
Total: $857

Now I suppose I could spend the 9 months until it's supposed unofficial release saving up for the extra $600 it would cost me, but by then the vid cards and mobo would be outdated anyways. Now before you start shouting about how I'm in the minority, I assure you, I am not, the SLI folks are (nothing wrong with that...If I could afford it I would be all over it). And on the GeForce 6 mention, that's something they'd have to implement in the drivers, which I can assure you ain't gonna happen.

...My 2¢.

 
superkdogg said:
QFT-That's the most interesting thing of this whole Nv/Havoc issue: Using older cards as physics co-processors. Right now, current documentation says that the cards have to be in SLI mode and then driver options allow one to be designated as the PPU. Since that card is not actually doing any gfx rendering, and is just processing physics, I don't see a reason that it needs to be the same as the gfx card. IMO, drivers will eventually add support for running a say, 7900GTX as the video card and that 'old' 7800GT that you bought as the physics card. If that happens, Agiea (sp?) may have problems selling their stuff unless it really kicks you know what.
Click to expand...
I agree completely. In order for this GPU as a PPU thing to take off, nVidia needs to enable older cards to accelerate physics. Normally, the decision to buy a new video card or not is a tough one because it's hard to stomach putting your old, still fairly decent video card out of commission. This would make the decision to buy a new video card much easier. The big question here will be how well GPUs can accelerate physics. If the Ageia card is 2x faster than a 7800GT, then we will suddenly be considering all of the above.
 
uzor said:
Not to be a troll, but I beg to differ. Here is what it would cost me to implement each solution.

Ageia cost:
Ageia PhysX Card: $250
Total: $250

Nvidia/Havok cost:
ASUS A8n32SLI: $219
eVGA 7900GT : $319 ea. (x2)
Total: $857
Click to expand...

I wasn't suggesting buying a top end SLI setup was cheaper.
If Nvidia could get is so the cards didn't have to run in SLI mode (requiring the same GPU on each), when you repalce your graphics card, the old one, at no additional cost to you, would make a good a good physics co-processor. A solid SLI motherboard from MSI or Epox or DFI is only a bit over $100 today. Evening needing to be in SLI mode, you can pick up some decent range GF6 series cards second hand in the $100-200 range making an SLI GF6 setup more flexible (dual video cards or GPU + PPU as needed) and no more costly then the PhysX cards.
 
I just got off the phone with BFG sales. They cards will be end user available some time May is the impression i am given
 
FreiDOg said:
Indeed, and since Nvidia and Havock are suppoed to be showing off a physics engine that runs on any SM3.0 Nvidia GPU this week, you're 'old' GF6 and 7 series cards might find themselves a home as physics co-processors after your next GPU upgrade. (SLI motherboard required of course, but still cheaper than a physX card right now).
Click to expand...

I don't think this can be done? I was pretty sure you needed to have the same model card to run any SLI mode ( I assumed this was the case with SLI Havok Physics)...

Edit: Didn't read the posts after yours immediately, but looks like others agree with me.
 
Killa_2327 said:
Even though I like this idea, no way in hell am I going to fork out another $200-300 just for a PhysX card.
Click to expand...


you know what is ironic about this quote..

back when 3dfx was getting ready to sell the 6000 with a price of 500$ everyone said..

"No way i'd buy a video card for 500$, never 300$ is highway robbery to begin with, i don't care what performance i get"

and look where we are today, people plunk down 500$ for a video card without complaining (some payed a lot more for those 512 cards), not to mention more if they go SLI/XFire..
 
H-street said:
you know what is ironic about this quote..

back when 3dfx was getting ready to sell the 6000 with a price of 500$ everyone said..

"No way i'd buy a video card for 500$, never 300$ is highway robbery to begin with, i don't care what performance i get"

and look where we are today, people plunk down 500$ for a video card without complaining (some payed a lot more for those 512 cards), not to mention more if they go SLI/XFire..
Click to expand...

i wonder what that is after accounting for inflation.
 
For all you guys complaining that you don't want to buy a new card with no games for it yet: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? In the computing industry, it's always the hardware that must be released before the software. No way are software developers going to code games for something that doesn't exist yet. If you're really concerned, just wait a few months for games to be released, then you can buy the cards, which will be in higher demand and therefore cost more.
 
anyone know what codec quicktime needs to play the HD clips i can't believe they do this....... there main customers are windows users and they forcing us to install quicktime just to view it
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

anyways just figure it out i ended up using VideoLAN
 
Ah the hipocracy, I will be one of the first to plunk down money for a card and i am willing to bet most in these forums will too.
 
jacuzz1, i have a FIST FULL OF DOLLAR BILLS with BFG's name on it, but it appears that THEY DONT WANT IT.
 
Seems BFG is going to make add in card for North America (Nvidia) . So is this going to work with ATI cards (especially crossfire setups)?
 
The price will come down. I'm all over it as soon as the killer app gets released. I was an early adopter of the Voodoo card. edit: and computers as a whole are alot cheaper now. Ram, HDDs, almost everything used to cost alot more.

omega-x said:
i wonder what that is after accounting for inflation.
Click to expand...

About $390 using a 2.5% rate.
 
Night_Hawk-19 said:
Seems BFG is going to make add in card for North America (Nvidia) . So is this going to work with ATI cards (especially crossfire setups)?
Click to expand...

The PhysX card is seperate from the video card.
 
H-street said:
you know what is ironic about this quote..

back when 3dfx was getting ready to sell the 6000 with a price of 500$ everyone said..

"No way i'd buy a video card for 500$, never 300$ is highway robbery to begin with, i don't care what performance i get"

and look where we are today, people plunk down 500$ for a video card without complaining (some payed a lot more for those 512 cards), not to mention more if they go SLI/XFire..
Click to expand...

i have a problem with "plunking down" 500$ on a video card

thats why im still using a 6800 series

judging by the steam numbers, im not in the minority either
 
I believe that the GPU pysics processor has to be SLI (or single card) due to the fact that it operates quite differently than the PhysX card. The GPU physics is computed and rendered with very little feedback to the CPU. This process of computing and then rendering directly requires a direct 'connection' to the video output and the only way to get that is either SLI or do the physics and graphics on a single card.

In contrast, the PhysX card computes the physics interactions and then updates the CPU with where the objects are. The CPU then tells the GPU where to draw everything. The two processes are quite different.

In my opinion, the PhysX card will allow for a higher level of flexibility in the types of computations that are performed, but the GPU will allow for a cheap and easy way to accelerate basic physics.

Ageia's physics software is not dependent on having dedicated hardware acceleration. In the absence of a PPU, it will use the CPU, but it will have to scale back and operate very much like Havoc's software physics does. Although this limits the ability of game developers to make gameplay that is dependent on PPU type physics, in time multi-cored CPUs and PPUs will make a slow increase of physics effects that are more and more central to game play.

For those of you who would "never" pay $250 for a PPU, just wait. There a plenty of people who are willing to pay that much right now, and in 6 monthes or so I'd expect to see them getting near $150. We'll see... I think that they are priced high because there is a limited supply of them right now, since they are so new. Like most new technology, the price will fall with time.
 
Kritter said:
jacuzz1, i have a FIST FULL OF DOLLAR BILLS with BFG's name on it, but it appears that THEY DONT WANT IT.
Click to expand...

Yeh I called them too lol :D
Guess we have to wait till May.


Is Ageia a publicaly traded company yet? lol
 
Personally, I am optimistic about Ageia and the future of the PPU. I seriously believe this is the best implementation of hardware physics processing, from what I've seen. I know not everyone is sold on the idea yet but if this takes off, Ageia might get some competition from another company and that could result in $200 or even >$200 physics cards.

In my opinion, the PhysX card will allow for a higher level of flexibility in the types of computations that are performed, but the GPU will allow for a cheap and easy way to accelerate basic physics.
Click to expand...

Provided I can disable the physics processing on the GPU, I suppose I'm for it. Physics on GPU can maybe provide a low to medium level of physics processing (much lower than the Ageia card could provide). For budget-minded people, I think this would be an excellent alternative. I'm not entirely sold on the idea until I see it in action, though I say the same for the Ageia solution.

For all you guys complaining that you don't want to buy a new card with no games for it yet: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? In the computing industry, it's always the hardware that must be released before the software. No way are software developers going to code games for something that doesn't exist yet. If you're really concerned, just wait a few months for games to be released, then you can buy the cards, which will be in higher demand and therefore cost more.
Click to expand...

Case in point: 64-bit CPUs and even dual-core CPUs. Yeah they were great ideas but no one was willing to do anything until the hardware manufacturers started making these things. Now Vista will be 64-bit, future games will be multi-threaded and life will generally be better. Go figure, right?

An additional point: sound cards are out there but not everyone who has a gaming PC has one, right? No one is making you buy a sound card. Hell, one of my friends has a computer he built a couple of years ago. He never put a sound card in it and he has been doing just fine so far.

EDIT: Noticed a spelling error. That's what I get for posting when I'm tired.
 
Obviously using a graphics card as a PPU will require a x16 slot. I remember reading an interview a while ago with an Ageia big shot who said that the PPU's will use x1 and maybe x4 slots, but that they don't need nearly the badwidth of a x16 slot.

I'm interested to see how the numbers breakdown. Which one will be sexay-er, a 7900GTX with a PPU, or SLI GTX's with one riding shotgun as the PPU? Straight SLI as we know it? How will SLI scale with a PPU in a PCI (or PCI-e) slot?

Let's just say I'm happy my tax man told me to invest in my computer for my business so that I have depreciation to write off at the end of the year. ;)
 
YARDofSTUF said:
So how does this card work? needs a PCIe x16 slot?
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The current PhysX cards are PCI.

In the future they will be PCIe x1 (which will fit in an PCIe x4 or x16 slot).

The PhysX card requires very little bandwith compared to a video card since it doesn't have to deal with textures and much of the geometry can be simplified for physics type calculations.
 
Time you sli or crossfire your system and add a sound card start running out of available pci slots. Be wise to integrate the chip into motherboards.
 
ah screw it, ill get a 7900gt instead of the ppu.

WAYYY off topic, but will the dx10 cards be pcie? What im asking, is will i be able to upgrade my 7900gt to dx10 without changing the mobo ect?
 
jcll2002 said:
ah screw it, ill get a 7900gt instead of the ppu.

WAYYY off topic, but will the dx10 cards be pcie? What im asking, is will i be able to upgrade my 7900gt to dx10 without changing the mobo ect?
Click to expand...
nope, they decided they were moving back to AGP.





















:eek:
 
just making sure ;) I didnt want to be sitting with my 7900gts, not being able to upgrade to dx10 without changing the mobo ect
 
Barely anyone has made a dent in dualcore CPUs yet, how about we fully utilize the 2nd core before we worry about some additional processor?

Or at least when the game writers go back to include support for Phsyics, ALSO add in support for the 2nd CPU core....pleeeeeease.
 
Let's say that Newegg sells the PPUs at $200-225. These PPUs I can almost guarantee will not be updated every 6 months or year. They don't need to be. Wouldn't spending the money be justified?

Also, if someone has 2 7900gtx and if he wants to use the Havok physics, HE HAS TO SACRIFICE ONE OF THEM? Screw that shit. The whole point of SLI was to have them both rendering so you can have a playable experience in high-res, not to have one gimp out as a PPU. So would you rather spend 200-250 or whatever.....or 500.
 
osalcido said:
i have a problem with "plunking down" 500$ on a video card

thats why im still using a 6800 series

judging by the steam numbers, im not in the minority either
Click to expand...



nothing on my computer was over $150 because im cheap [ my graphics cost less than a lot of cases]

and i will probably be the first one to ask but, are these overclockable? i am willing to be the 1st person to watercool one [send me one and ill make a block for it]
 
uzor said:
Not to be a troll, but I beg to differ. Here is what it would cost me to implement each solution.

Ageia cost:
Ageia PhysX Card: $250
Total: $250

Nvidia/Havok cost:
ASUS A8n32SLI: $219
eVGA 7900GT : $319 ea. (x2)
Total: $857

Now I suppose I could spend the 9 months until it's supposed unofficial release saving up for the extra $600 it would cost me, but by then the vid cards and mobo would be outdated anyways. Now before you start shouting about how I'm in the minority, I assure you, I am not, the SLI folks are (nothing wrong with that...If I could afford it I would be all over it). And on the GeForce 6 mention, that's something they'd have to implement in the drivers, which I can assure you ain't gonna happen.

...My 2¢.

Click to expand...

I'm for stand alone physics card myself, but come on, this is very faulty logic.

First, you included a top of the line board with a high price tag. You could also consider that you may upgrade your system before you need physics power, and you would probably already be buying an SLI board, since the only motherboard's you consider are high end.

Second, you put the price of two video cards. Do you not have a video card in your gaming rig right now?
 
All new technology companies follow a pyramid scheme for there product release. First they sell it for expensive amount to the minority this will bring down production cost and thus they will be able to sell the product a little cheaper which then more people will buy because it's in there price range then that demand will bring down production price and that in turn will lower sales price and thus an even larger group will buy the product and it goes like that until you hit the big market which is lower middle class prices then your going to just rake in the money after that. This is what dvd's did this is what hd-dvd and blu ray will do. Cpu's do this video camera's do this memory cards do this. No matter what you sell this is your main goal this is your template on running a good buisness.
 
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