Adobe CS5 Video/Photo Editing Machine?

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TheOrangeJuicer

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Jun 12, 2009
Messages
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1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
***Photoshop
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
***$1300
3) Where do you live?
***California
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. Please be very specific.
***Everything
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
***Nothing will be reused.
6) Will you be overclocking?
***Probably not.
7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
***Probably two 22"+ monitors. This is a separate budget!
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
***Within the next few weeks. Hoping to have it complete by the end of the month.
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.
***I am assuming Firewire is a must for this type of computer. We have a file server for all of the pictures/videos but RAID may be a good idea anyway? Hopeing to get some feedback on this....
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? 32bit or 64bit?
***We will be purchasing the OS. Win7 64-Bit most likely.

We are currently looking to purchase or build a new Graphic Design computer for our company. The one we are using is going to the new building so we need to build or buy one to replace it.

Our graphic designer picked this HP Pavilion Elite but he didn't spend too much time shopping around because he is the graphic designer.

The specs for those who don't want to click are:
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 925 (2.8GHz)
RAM: 8GB DDR 1333
Hard Drive: 1TB SATA (doesn't specify brand)
Video Card: ATI Radeon HD 4350
Sound: Onboard Audio

We want to future proof this machine for a good 5+ years. I am using the HP our graphic designer picked out as a template. I am not a graphic designer so I am not exactly sure what is recommended or not. This machine is only $800 so I have an extra $500 to get better parts. I am looking for some recommendations from those of you who do graphic design work or know what components i should look into. If I were building a gaming rig, I wouldn't need any help but since this is strictly for graphic design work, I don't even know what processor I should look at.

Does anyone have some recommendations as far as the type of processor, how much RAM, what video card I should lean towards? Is a Phenom X4 going to perform just as well as a Core i7 or i5?

Any help is MUCH appreciated.
 
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With a $1300 budget I would go with an i7 920/930 build with 6gb if not 12gb of ram. The new Caviar Black 1TB (FAEX Model #) are fast and good quality. You may also even want to consider an SSD to install photoshop on.
 
Yeah, I agree with Shadowsong. The 1366 chipset is intel's top-end, and is probably the most "future proof," were such a concept to exist in the tech world. Get as much RAM as you can afford and setup a RAM disc for use in Photoshop - search these forums for help on how. As for your GPU, you'll want to go Nvidia, as their cards are the only ones CS5 can utilize (someone correct me if I'm wrong). If you can budget it in, and you should be able to, get a SSD for your OS and Photoshop.

If you decide to go AMD, definitely get a 6-core - they cost less than an i7-930 and offer two more cores, though, of course, without HT.
 
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Wait are the monitors part of that $1300 budget?
 
Then I recommend this setup:
$295 - Intel Core i7 930 CPU
$300 - Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R X58 ATX Motherboard + G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL 2 x 2GB DDR3 1600 RAM Combo
$205 - Antec 300 ATX Case + G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL 2 x 2GB DDR3 1600 RAM Combo
$68- ZOTAC GeForce 9600GSO 512 MB PCI-E Video Card
$125 - Intel SSDSA2MP040G2R5 2.5" 40GB SSD
$140 - Corsair 650TX 650W PSU + Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive Combo
$100 - Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit OEM
----
Total: $1233 plus tax and shipping.

Used Amazon for a majority of the parts since Amazon does not charge tax for CA residents.
 
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If this is a mission critical system, call HP and have them quote you a workstation class system. If this system can experience downtime without adversely affecting anyone/the company, then sure, build it. From a business standpoint, it would probably be better to get an HP or Dell workstation, though. Be sure to contact a rep, as they can typically get you a better deal or match what you can find online.

Oh, and if you build, Danny's build looks good, especially if most of the work will be done in photoshop. If you'll be using premier pro more, than you'd probably want a beefier GPU, like a GTX 275 or whatever the new 400 series equiv would be.
 
get more then 1 harddrive, for video work , you want a working drive and a save drive, will help things be faster.

ideally i would get 4 smaller drives, like 4 320G or 500G drives, one with raid 0 as a working drive, and the other raid 1 for some redundacy if this work is important to you.
 
I have NO idea what the graphic designer will be using but we are purchasing this version of CS5.

Will that Zotac GPU be enough? Hah i guess this is why I am asking for help in this build. I would think I would need a much more powerful GPU than a 9600 for Photo Editing. I was seriously thinking at least 200 series...
 
TheOrangeJuicer said:
Honestly i have NO idea what the graphic designer will be using but we are purchasing this version of CS5...

Will that Zotac GPU be enough? Hah i guess this is why I am asking for help in this build. I would think I would need a much more powerful GPU than a 9600 for Photo Editing. I was seriously thinking at least 200 series...
Click to expand...

For PS work, the 9600 will work. You don't need a high-end video card for photo-editing.
 
How much video? And as a follow up, how much After Effects?

edit: I see you're buying Design Standard - so no video editing as in the original thread title?
 
TechPirate said:
How much video? And as a follow up, how much After Effects?

edit: I see you're buying Design Standard - so no video editing as in the original thread title?
Click to expand...

I'm very sorry for confusing everyone!

I am not the graphic designer nor do I use Photoshop. I was told we need a graphic design computer for photo AND video editing from one of the supervisors. Keep in mind, this supervisor is not an IT person, nor a graphic design person so clearly there is some confusion on my end...

It sounds like I need to talk to some people to figure out exactly what they need/want. Thanks for the input so far. It is greatly appreciated. I am going to have to get some more information it seems because I was told we need to make a video/photo editing computer, not just a photo editing computer. If the graphic designer linked me that suite either he didn't look at the programs that comes with it (doesn't seem likely since he uses the CS4 Master Suite on a daily basis doing Video and Photo editing) or he was told we are just doing photo editing which is not what I was told. Either way, i need to do some talking.
 
If you're doing video editing and are going to be using Adobe Premiere CS5 and After Effects CS5 then do NOT buy an ATI card as you will be missing out on the most important feature of Premiere: the Mercury Engine. It is CUDA ONLY.

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/performance/

Note, the GTX 470 and 480 are also compatible, though they are not listed.

After Effects is a CPU grinder, too - so the faster the CPU the better here. Stick with an i7 for sure.
 
Danny Bui said:
Then I recommend this setup:
$295 - Intel Core i7 930 CPU
$300 - Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R X58 ATX Motherboard + G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL 2 x 2GB DDR3 1600 RAM Combo
$205 - Antec 300 ATX Case + G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL 2 x 2GB DDR3 1600 RAM Combo
$68- ZOTAC GeForce 9600GSO 512 MB PCI-E Video Card
$125 - Intel SSDSA2MP040G2R5 2.5" 40GB SSD
$140 - Corsair 650TX 650W PSU + Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive Combo
$100 - Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit OEM
----
Total: $1233 plus tax and shipping.

Used Amazon for a majority of the parts since Amazon does not charge tax for CA residents.
Click to expand...

One issue with the GPU:

The GPU acceleration feature of Premiere CS5's MPE requires at least 765MB of free (not total) graphics RAM just to even run at all. (This means that given Adobe's requirement for 1280x900x32bpp minimum monitor resolution, a 768MB NVIDIA card would still not be enough to enable the GPU-accelerated mode.) Therefore, that 512MB 9600GSO would not have been any better than an ATi card for CS5 because no 512MB card can use MPE's GPU acceleration at all (and thus all 512MB cards are forced to use software-only mode in CS5).

In addition, some of the CUDA-powered GPUs at the lower end are so slow than they would have actually performed slower in GPU-accelerated mode than they did using software-only mode.

Also note that all of the officially supported cards in Adobe's list have at least 192 stream processors. The 9600 series never had more than 96 stream processors. As a result, a GTX 260 or higher is needed in order to match Adobe's specifications (although at present none of the consumer NVIDIA GeForce series cards are officially supported; the least expensive card officially supported by Adobe costs more than $800 (for the Quadro FX 3800)).
 
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E4g1e said:
... Also note that all of the officially supported cards in Adobe's list have at least 192 stream processors. The 9600 series never had more than 96 stream processors. As a result, a GTX 260 or higher is needed in order to match Adobe's specifications (although at present none of the consumer NVIDIA GeForce series cards are officially supported; the least expensive card officially supported by Adobe costs more than $800 (for the Quadro FX 3800)).
Click to expand...
Yah, I can't find the old list for CS4, but it had a lot more options than just the GTX285. Basically, almost any GeForce card (like the past 6 gens?) will support the CUDA optimizations; but from my understanding, they don't impact ps performance much for most users.

And again, all of Eagle's comments were mainly for Premier. Photoshop doesn't really benefit from any GPU-acceleration unless it's doing some crazy rendering of sorts (ie if you use a bunch of intensive filters).
 
TheOrangeJuicer said:
I have NO idea what the graphic designer will be using but we are purchasing this version of CS5.
Click to expand...

I've just checked that version of CS5, and it does not include Premiere Pro CS5 at all. In fact, the Design Standard suite has no video or audio editng software at all. For that you will need to step up to the Production Premium or the Master Collection suites, which cost much more than your chosen Design Standard.
 
E4g1e said:
I've just checked that version of CS5, and it does not include Premiere Pro CS5 at all. In fact, the Design Standard suite has no video or audio editng software at all. For that you will need to step up to the Production Premium or the Master Collection suites, which cost much more than your chosen Design Standard.
Click to expand...
yes, we've established that already... :p ;) ... i know, i know... i'm lazy to read posts, too... :D
TheOrangeJuicer said:
TechPirate said:
How much video? And as a follow up, how much After Effects?

edit: I see you're buying Design Standard - so no video editing as in the original thread title?
Click to expand...
I'm very sorry for confusing everyone!

I am not the graphic designer nor do I use Photoshop. I was told we need a graphic design computer for photo AND video editing from one of the supervisors. Keep in mind, this supervisor is not an IT person, nor a graphic design person so clearly there is some confusion on my end...

It sounds like I need to talk to some people to figure out exactly what they need/want. Thanks for the input so far. It is greatly appreciated. I am going to have to get some more information it seems because I was told we need to make a video/photo editing computer, not just a photo editing computer. If the graphic designer linked me that suite either he didn't look at the programs that comes with it (doesn't seem likely since he uses the CS4 Master Suite on a daily basis doing Video and Photo editing) or he was told we are just doing photo editing which is not what I was told. Either way, i need to do some talking.
Click to expand...
 
enginurd said:
Yah, I can't find the old list for CS4, but it had a lot more options than just the GTX285. Basically, almost any GeForce card (like the past 6 gens?) will support the CUDA optimizations; but from my understanding, they don't impact ps performance much for most users.

And again, all of Eagle's comments were mainly for Premier. Photoshop doesn't really benefit from any GPU-acceleration unless it's doing some crazy rendering of sorts (ie if you use a bunch of intensive filters).
Click to expand...

The GPU acceleration in CS5 is a completely different animal.

And as to Photoshop, well, check out content-aware fill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH0aEp1oDOI&feature=player_embedded
 
E4g1e said:
One issue with the GPU:

The GPU acceleration feature of Premiere CS5's MPE requires at least 765MB of free (not total) graphics RAM just to even run at all. (This means that given Adobe's requirement for 1280x900x32bpp minimum monitor resolution, a 768MB NVIDIA card would still not be enough to enable the GPU-accelerated mode.) Therefore, that 512MB 9600GSO would not have been any better than an ATi card for CS5 because no 512MB card can use MPE's GPU acceleration at all (and thus all 512MB cards are forced to use software-only mode in CS5).

In addition, some of the CUDA-powered GPUs at the lower end are so slow than they would have actually performed slower in GPU-accelerated mode than they did using software-only mode.

Also note that all of the officially supported cards in Adobe's list have at least 192 stream processors. The 9600 series never had more than 96 stream processors. As a result, a GTX 260 or higher is needed in order to match Adobe's specifications (although at present none of the consumer NVIDIA GeForce series cards are officially supported; the least expensive card officially supported by Adobe costs more than $800 (for the Quadro FX 3800)).
Click to expand...
Wasn't aware of all that information. Source?
 
Danny Bui said:
Wasn't aware of all that information. Source?
Click to expand...

Here is a thread in another forum for the 765MB graphics RAM requirement for MPE's GPU acceleration feature. You might also find some information about how the lower-end GPUs perform with GPU acceleration enabled. Read through the entire thread and not just one page.

As for the number of stream processors of the 9600 GSO 512, you can find this info here. The 9600 GSO 512, as per NVIDIA's site, has only 48 stream processors (click on "Specifications"). Contrast this to the 192 stream processors in the least-expensive GPU that's officially supported by Adobe for Premiere Pro CS5's MPE GPU-accelerated mode, the Quadro FX 3800.
 
I am right here! Been busy doing a project so haven't even had time to look at parts. I have talked to the people I need to and we've decided to get the full CS5 Master Suite. Our budget remains the same unless we need to increase it for the video editing software that's included in the Master Suite.

The other IT guy helping me with this project recommended the Nahalem Xeon processor for this build just because we know it works well with our servers. Would the i7 be a better choice for graphic design or would it show no difference in comparison?
 
We are also currently confused about what GPU to get for this build. Someone said a 9800GT will work but that was before we decided to go with the CS5 Master Suite.

After looking at this comparison between a Radeon 5770, Radeon 5850 and a GeForce GTX 260, we don't know what specs we should be looking at.

Do we want more Stream Processors, more Effective Memory Clock, as much Memory Size as possible or a higher core clock? I know we want to get an Nvidia card for Cs5 because of the MPE or whatever the guy above me was talking about but I threw in the ATI cards for comparison. Obviously we don't really need a DX11 card but again it's just for comparison.

I was thinking a GTX260 should be good as it has at least 768MB for the MPE feature and I know it is a powerful card.

Is there a cheaper solution or a better choice I should look at?

Thanks for all the advice. It is greatly appreciated.
 
You should definitely be looking at the GTX 260 as it's the cheapest card that fulfills the requirements as mentioned earlier in the thread, the cheapest officially supported card is $800 alone because it's a Quadro.
 
TheOrangeJuicer said:
I think we are going to just get the GTX 285. According to this it will be sufficient.
Click to expand...

Well unfortunately, the GTX 285 is too overpriced, even for a Nvidia card. Average price for the GTX 285 is about $350 to $400. You can get the faster $350 GTX 470 for that same price.
 
TheOrangeJuicer, has the graphics designer been keeping up with his/her knowledge on workstation graphics cards, like the ATI Fire series or the Nvidia Quadro series?

I ask because the workstation cards are more suited for high-end graphics design and visual (photo/video/CG) editing than consumer "gaming" cards, though they are much more expensive.
 
The Quatro series ARE the geforce series. Just with different ports on the back, its the same PCB and Chip. The GTX 285 would be easiest because of immediate mercury support. Though that said, i've been able to get a 260/270/480 to work by manipulating the conviently titled "Allowed GPU" (something like that) list. So any Nvidia GPU over 1gb should suffice. I can show you how if you wish to use a non quatro/285 card!
Raid is a very good idea. It depends on your budget really. For a scratch disk you want as fast a drive as possible. So SSD, or 10000RPM drive like a raptor etc. though I do fine with a normal 7200 drive by using p2 footage. Firewire isn't really that essential anymore, but most motherboard have at least one port. So thats not really something to worry about. USB3 might be the way to go though if you want faster transfers, but its not exactly a widely used format yet.
 
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DeathPrincess said:
<snip> Firewire isn't really that essential anymore, but most motherboard have at least one port. So thats not really something to worry about.<snip>
Click to expand...

Firewire's still important. You'll be surprised how many people are still shooting DV25. But since a single 1394a port is standard on almost any MB now, it is a non-issue. But the port isn't irrelevant yet, especially for working video editors.
 
tiraides said:
TheOrangeJuicer, has the graphics designer been keeping up with his/her knowledge on workstation graphics cards, like the ATI Fire series or the Nvidia Quadro series?

I ask because the workstation cards are more suited for high-end graphics design and visual (photo/video/CG) editing than consumer "gaming" cards, though they are much more expensive.
Click to expand...

We would get a Quadro but due to the prices we are going to get the cheaper consumer level card. We talked to Adobe technical support and they recommended we get a GTX285 over a GTX470. I am not sure why since I wasn't the one who made the call but that's what they told us.
 
DeathPrincess said:
The Quatro series ARE the geforce series. Just with different ports on the back, its the same PCB and Chip. The GTX 285 would be easiest because of immediate mercury support. Though that said, i've been able to get a 260/270/480 to work by manipulating the conviently titled "Allowed GPU" (something like that) list. So any Nvidia GPU over 1gb should suffice. I can show you how if you wish to use a non quatro/285 card!
Raid is a very good idea. It depends on your budget really. For a scratch disk you want as fast a drive as possible. So SSD, or 10000RPM drive like a raptor etc. though I do fine with a normal 7200 drive by using p2 footage. Firewire isn't really that essential anymore, but most motherboard have at least one port. So thats not really something to worry about. USB3 might be the way to go though if you want faster transfers, but its not exactly a widely used format yet.
Click to expand...

I did read up on an article about some guy who did the same thing with his GTX260 and we did consider it but we decided to just get a beefier card so we don't have to mess with anything. Thanks for offering to help though!

We purchases two Raptor 300GB drives which we will put into RAID for the OS drive. We also picked up two 1.5TB WD Black drives for storage which we will also put into RAID. We also get a mobo with USB3 and SATA 6GB/s just to future proof this build as long as possible. If I find the part sheet I'll be sure to post it later today.
 
TheOrangeJuicer said:
We would get a Quadro but due to the prices we are going to get the cheaper consumer level card. We talked to Adobe technical support and they recommended we get a GTX285 over a GTX470. I am not sure why since I wasn't the one who made the call but that's what they told us.
Click to expand...

They said that only because they have not yet certified any of the GeForce GTX 4xx series cards for MPE GPU acceleration. As such, Adobe will only recommend what they officially support.
 
E4g1e said:
They said that only because they have not yet certified any of the GeForce GTX 4xx series cards for MPE GPU acceleration. As such, Adobe will only recommend what they officially support.
Click to expand...

Yes! The guy who called Adobe said that's what they told him. We probably wouldn't see a huge improvement from a GTX285 to a GTX470 anyway I'd imagine. Maybe my imagination is off though?
 
TheOrangeJuicer said:
We purchases two Raptor 300GB drives which we will put into RAID for the OS drive. We also picked up two 1.5TB WD Black drives for storage which we will also put into RAID. We also get a mobo with USB3 and SATA 6GB/s just to future proof this build as long as possible. If I find the part sheet I'll be sure to post it later today.
Click to expand...

Why'd you go with the VRaptors over a significantly faster SSD? In fact, you could have gotten two Intel 80GB SSD drives + another 1TB Black drive for the price of two 300GB VRaptors.
 
E4g1e said:
They said that only because they have not yet certified any of the GeForce GTX 4xx series cards for MPE GPU acceleration. As such, Adobe will only recommend what they officially support.
Click to expand...

I read it was something about "rendering errors" using fermi cards during tests or something. Though, I've been using both and havent had any problems with rendering so far, and "rendering errors" isn't specific enough for any kind of test. I do wish theyd hurry up with adding more cards to the allowed list, its been a few months already, and theres little to no difference between a 285 and a 260 etc. I do know that a285 was initially locked down to 3 layers of GPU effected footage, but has been expanded now. I've read of people using over 20 on a 285. With a 260 (slight OC) i've been able to get similar results. If you can think up a benchmark i'll be happy to test it out with the cards I have.
 
TheOrangeJuicer said:
Here are the parts for those who are interested.

OS Drives: 2x WD 300GB Raptor
Storage Drives:2x WD Black
Power Supply: Corsair TX950
UPS: APC BR1500
RAM: 2x OCZ Gold 6GB DDR3 1600
CPU: Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-X58-UD3R
GPU: EVGA Nvidia GTX285
Case: Gigabyte Aurora 570
Monitors: x2 Samsung Syncmaster 245BW - 24"
Click to expand...

I would also reccomend going to a SSD, because of the faster transfer rate, and slightly less noise. (though harddrive noise is no match for GPU or even a fan noise most the time)

Another option for the mobo if you want more firewire would be the ASUS P6X58D-E Which although more expensive has a second internal firewire port (which I think the gigabyte board lacks), and better support for more GPU configurations. (the x16 slots can be 16x/8x/8x or 16x/16x/1x instead of 8x/8x/8x/8x for the gigabyte board). Though if SLI isn't really something your into there isn't much point, other than its black.

With the gigabyte board if your looking to use 2 pci-e 2.0 cards make the second is small, the room around the top slot on the gigabyte board is tiny because of the placement.
One thing to note with either board is if you want to go triple SLI that the bottom GPU slot is below the lowest slot on most cases, so if your going to use 3 cards your going to need a slightly non-standard 8 slot case (lian-li do several, I'll just cut a giant hole in mine) or only use a single slot card/water cooling for the lowest card. Though at this point premiere pro/ any adobe product still don't use SLI for more than one card, and adobe are slow at doing anything.
 
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