A Tiny Side Project, and I mean TINY

W

widefault

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 18, 2000
Messages
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Since I've been slacking off on the Windows Home Server Cube, I threw something together over the last few days to get me back into the swing of things.

The breadbox had an aluminum shelf inside, about 16"x 7.5". I also had a Commell LE-370Z. Hmmm, that's a nice and tiny board, pretty much the same as what I'd used in this system. That one was pretty small, but I decided to see just how small of a working system I could build with that board. Since the board is 4" x 5.75" x ~1" tall, I knew I wanted to stay as close to that size as possible. I ended up at 2.5" x 4.5" x 6.5", which I think is pretty damned good. Anyway, some specs, then some pics.

Commell LE-370Z with onboard Celeron-M 600MHz(Banias core, 0K L2 cache)
512MB DDR400@266MHz(but really good timings)
40GB Seagate Momentus 5400.2 2.5" hard drive
Broadcom 802.11a/b/g Mini-PCI wireless with external antenna
60 watt external power brick

And the pics, case was bent on an 18" break from Harbor Freight.

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I'll be cutting and bending a cover from some leftover mesh I have. May also add some feet just to get it off the desk. Doesn't require any real cooling, either. Should be fine without a fan, idling at the BIOS screen the whole system only pulls 18 watts of power. It also performs as good or better than most VIA C3 boards.
 
Wow, that is indeed tiny... but come on, couldn't you fit it into that pop can? hehe

Or is that your next 'tiny' side project ;)

I'd be afraid I'd break something that small... you know one good sneeze and it's gone!
 
Very nice craftsmanship widefault!! And ya gotta love Harbor Freight lol

Kind of a stupid question, but what would a PC like this be used for or is it just for the sake of having a working PC this size?
 
I built it pretty much just to do it, but there isn't much this one can't do except for gaming. Hard drive capacity is sort of on the low side, but there's nothing stopping me from dropping in something larger. CPU performance is similar to a PIII at the same speed, so it's quite capable for most office apps. Hell, if I really wanted I could swap in the LE-370 board I have with a 1.8GHz Pentium-M, the holes are all the same. I would need a fan for that one, though. I may sneak a small fan into this setup, although it would be running off 5 volts so it shouldn't make any noise. Cooler is always better to me.

As to the size, you can't get much more portable. I think of seeing people at past jobs lugging a laptop back and forth from work and home, using full monitors, keyboards, and mice at both locations. Something like this weighs less(about a pound) and could serve the same purpose.

I need to check tonight if there's enough space left for me to add on the parallel port. Not that I need it, but it's the chance to cram one more bit of functionality into the case. Should be just enough room above the serial and VGA.
 
Cover has been bent up, but my drill battery is dead so I've got to recharge before I can get it installed. With the mesh cover it's taken on a definite 70's-electronic-test-component vibe, not sure if I like that. Only needs some woodgrain.
 
Heh, even using the smallest components I'd double the size of the system. I think I'd have more noise, only thing with moving parts right now is the hard drive. Hmmm, how much are those flash drives again......
 
widefault said:
Heh, even using the smallest components I'd double the size of the system. I think I'd have more noise, only thing with moving parts right now is the hard drive. Hmmm, how much are those flash drives again......
Click to expand...

Hehe :). Very nice work :D!
 
And it's done for now. Decided against adding the parallel port, didn't want to clutter up the backpanel since it's so simple right now.

And let me say, it photographs much better than it actually is. The mesh was a pain to get cut right, and then I ended up bending it just a hair too small. It fits, just a bit too tightly for my liking. Still, I think it's pretty cool, and that's all that really matters to me. All that's left is to install XP and configure everything. Oh yeah, and make a run to Hardware Hank or Radio Shack for the rubber feet I like.

Anyway, the final pics.

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And just so the size is even more obvious, here it is with a 3.5" hard drive.
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Wow, that turned out nice. I like it a lot. It looks cool with the little wifi antenna sticking out of it. :p :cool:
 
That's a nice little system there. How do you plan to install the OS? Will it boot from a USB drive or an external disk drive?
 
I'll install using a USB CD drive, it'll boot from pretty much anything. It's a bit slow, but it's better than tearing it down to temporarily hook up a CD drive to the IDE controller.

Not sure what I'll be using it for, didn't build it with any use in mind.
 
That is pretty sweet..... I could really use something like that for my desk downstairs instead of some big honkin thing
 
It's a Coke can, not a TARDIS, the laws of physics still apply when it comes to case modding. Now if it were a Fosters "oil can" it would be a different story.
 
Got XP Pro installed and started getting things set up. Trying to get a CPU temp while it's in Windows was a pain, but Speedfan seems to be working. This bastard gets HOT. Just doing the install and updates the CPU is hitting into the 60ºC range, hate to see what it would hit under a real load. Might have to try to squeeze in a fan. Unfortunately it would have to be mounted to the outside of the cover, didn't leave enough room internally. Tempted to bend a new cover that's a bit taller, make "flaps" to cover the gap that would be on the front and back. Not sure if I'm that motivated, though.

I did check Intel's specs for the CPU and found it's rated to 100ºC, the board itself is rated for operating in temps from 0-60ºC, so I'm in safe territory. Still, the case gets almost too hot to touch, so I'm mulling the fan over a bit.

I also had it running on the end with the CPU side of the board towards the top. Going to run it "flat" for a while with the whole top of the mesh available for venting. See if that makes a difference

Oh yeah, and I really need to add a power switch somewhere on this. Been having it start when power is applied, but it's a pain and I don't want to damage the power connector. It'll have to be on the back of the case, the board uses a full size DIMM which doesn't leave much depth on the front of the case. Just wish there were small AND nice looking momentary switches. I've got a Bulgin vandal here for the WHS project, but it's so fricken big I doubt it would fit anywhere. I also have some small momentary switches from an old, old project, but they have ugly plastic knobs. Guess I'll keep looking.
 
I would make the case slightly longer and put 2 40mm fans on the end. The air flow is kinda weak but better than sacrificing size if thats what you are going for.

for reference I would put them on the end of the case length wise so that they blow across the mobo. That would hit the HS for the CPU and get some crossflow over the HD and Ram. Worse comes to worse, you put 4 40mm fans, 2 on each end of the case and make yourself a nice tunnel.


2 fans side by side here? Maybe.

Fan Image courtesy of Crazy PC.com
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widefault said:
Heh, even using the smallest components I'd double the size of the system. I think I'd have more noise, only thing with moving parts right now is the hard drive. Hmmm, how much are those flash drives again......
Click to expand...

You can get a 12GB CF card for $150 after rebate last I heard. (check DIGG)

widefault said:
It's a Coke can, not a TARDIS, the laws of physics still apply when it comes to case modding. Now if it were a Fosters "oil can" it would be a different story.
Click to expand...

I think the newer ETX formfactor can fit in a Coke can. However, they seem to use high-pin count Hirose connectors for breakouts. :/

widefault said:
Oh yeah, and I really need to add a power switch somewhere on this. Been having it start when power is applied, but it's a pain and I don't want to damage the power connector. It'll have to be on the back of the case, the board uses a full size DIMM which doesn't leave much depth on the front of the case. Just wish there were small AND nice looking momentary switches. I've got a Bulgin vandal here for the WHS project, but it's so fricken big I doubt it would fit anywhere. I also have some small momentary switches from an old, old project, but they have ugly plastic knobs. Guess I'll keep looking.
Click to expand...

Make your own, not that hard. All you need a spring, insulators (to form the core, as well as keeping the parts in the right place), and two washers. Solder the two power on wires to the washers, have one mounted to where it won't move, and put the other on the insulator core (a small diameter accrylic rod should do). Then, mount everything so that the spring will not let the two washers touch, unless it is pressed in.

I still need to figure out what to do with my old EBX Socket 370 board, as it is just sitting idle now.
 
tom61 said:
I think the newer ETX formfactor can fit in a Coke can. However, they seem to use high-pin count Hirose connectors for breakouts. :/
Click to expand...

ETX won't fit, it's not that small(114 x 95mm) and you still have to fit in the base board. Even PicoITX is too big for a soda can.

PicoITX is a bit pointless to me. To get any real functionality you have to hook up a daughterboard that's almost as big as the main board or use a bunch of breakout cables. Both end up increasing the footprint. And then it has a miniature connector for power, but it's based on ATX and has yet another cable that ends with a full-size ATX connector. Even with a PicoPSU that's another component to squeeze in. Even the USB ports are on add-on cables. And then they have a spot for PS/2 mouse and keyboard cables, which is a waste of space in my opinion. Also think they should have put a Compact Flash slot on there somewhere. If you can get away with only VGA and network, it's great, but overall they made it too small to be functional on its own.
 
After an extended run, CPU temps were above 70ºC, so I really had to add on a fan. Went digging through my parts and came across a 1cm thick, 40mm fan that had been on the heatsink of another embedded board. And it JUST barely fits with the cover on.

Second problem, it's really amazingly loud and whiney at 12 volts. The board doesn't have any fan controls, and access to 5 volts isn't easy. Ended up using two 3 pin connectors. One connects to a standard fan header on the board, only for RPM monitoring. The second three pin was modified to fit an onboard external power header Commell puts on the boards. It is a 4 pin male "floppy" power connector, so with a couple swaps of wires on the fan connector, I've got the fan running at 5 volts.

With the fan CPU temps are staying in the 60-65ºC range. Not a great reduction, but at least now the whole case isn't getting too hot to touch.
 
how much did/shouldd this run you as it sits?

im interested in building one or 2 for a carputer setup now!
 
I had a lot of spare parts to use, so mine was sort of low, but I'd say it would probably cost ~$450 if you did your own case. That's with the board I used, there are cheaper ones out there. I prefer that board just because it has the simple 12 volt power input, no need to mess with any cables or giant(in comparison) power supplies.
 
It looks like you could almost fit a "skinny" 80mm fan in there instead of the 40.

That should cut down on temps and noise.

If not, find a "skinny" 60mm fan, heck even one of those replacement fans for older VGA cards..
 
omegatotal said:
how much did/shouldd this run you as it sits?

im interested in building one or 2 for a carputer setup now!
Click to expand...

Thats what I was thinking too! But I'd want a better sound card for that. You should solve the noise problem then start selling these :)
 
Ozone77 said:
It looks like you could almost fit a "skinny" 80mm fan in there instead of the 40.

That should cut down on temps and noise.

If not, find a "skinny" 60mm fan, heck even one of those replacement fans for older VGA cards..
Click to expand...

There's about 1cm between the heatsink and the mesh, can't say I've ever seen a 60mm or 80mm fan that thin. My best option would be to change the heatsink itself. The board has a "standard" hole pattern for Pentium-M coolers, and the northbridge would be easily cooled with an off the shelf passive northbridge cooler.

Hmmm, have to look into that...
 
Justintoxicated said:
Thats what I was thinking too! But I'd want a better sound card for that. You should solve the noise problem then start selling these :)
Click to expand...

There's not really a noise problem, the little fan running on 5 volts is adequate for cooling right now. It would need a bit more in a CarPC environment, would get toasty. As I noted above, I'm going to take a look at how much of a pain it might be to change the heatsink for something lower profile that would allow a larger fan.

As for a sound card, in a CarPC I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between onboard and a real card. There are a few small boards with better audio, though it's still usually Realtek based. Commell also makes a Realtek ALC650-based MiniPCI audio card as well as a version that integrates a BT878 video capture card. It all adds to the price, and probably size as you'd need to integrate more connectors in the case. There's also USB, but that's one more component outside the box.
 
widefault said:
There's not really a noise problem, the little fan running on 5 volts is adequate for cooling right now. It would need a bit more in a CarPC environment, would get toasty. As I noted above, I'm going to take a look at how much of a pain it might be to change the heatsink for something lower profile that would allow a larger fan.

As for a sound card, in a CarPC I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between onboard and a real card. There are a few small boards with better audio, though it's still usually Realtek based. Commell also makes a Realtek ALC650-based MiniPCI audio card as well as a version that integrates a BT878 video capture card. It all adds to the price, and probably size as you'd need to integrate more connectors in the case. There's also USB, but that's one more component outside the box.
Click to expand...

No way man, I would be able to tell. I spent alot of money on my car stereo, more than my computer, I would not use onboard sound I would hear the difference for sure. Plus I need seperate subwoofer conroll...

:)
 
ValeX said:
Where can I purchase one of those?
Click to expand...

Logic Supply has them listed but without a price or availability. Just says Call for Details. I assume the price will be in the $300+ range and availability will be near zero.

Shmuckety, those are all Socket 478 and WAY too big to fit. A proper Socket 479 cooler may not even fit because the CPU isn't socketed, it's soldered direct to the board. I've got some here I can test fit, pretty much expect to need a spacer or modified backplate.

Justintoxicated, this one is about the best out there when it comes to the 3.5" size with better than average audio. Of course you really sacrifice performance. If you need better audio than that, you pretty much have to go to a larger form factor board. Next step is mini-ITX or EBX which is 5.75" x 8". Those all have a PCI slot, but at double the size of the other boards.
 
Evercool makes a 60x60x10mm fan, so you could try out one of those.

Alternatively you could cut 5mm off the top of the Heatsink and then stick an 80x80x15mm fan on it.
 
Have to see if I can find one, although I worry about noise. The other Evercool fans I've had have been far from quiet at 12 volts.

Don't want to modify the heatsink, would require pulling everything apart again and I already broke one of the heatsink push-pins. Currently have a machine screw with a nut holding one side of the heatsink down. Took some effort to get everything sitting level.

Contemplating just replacing the big heatsink with two smaller ones and a 60mm fan, but I'm not sure what I can get to fit the northbridge. It doesn't need much, but I haven't really measured the hole layout to see what will or won't fit.
 
Delta makes a 60x10mm fan as well, model number EFB0612HHA. It pushes 21 CFM @ 36 dBa. That's pretty quiet IMO. You can get 'em on Digi-Key for $12 each.

Ok, this is a stupid question, but how do you power the thing? I didnt see anything that looked like a psu, and I couldnt see an input for a power cable...
 
apt403 said:
Ok, this is a stupid question, but how do you power the thing? I didnt see anything that looked like a psu, and I couldnt see an input for a power cable...
Click to expand...

Look under the Wifi antanae, there's a hole for barrel plug there in the pics.

BTW, for anyone thinking about getting PicoITX, definately read the review on www.mini-itx.com . Take a look at the expansion board page and the benchmarks... Not so good.
 
widefault said:
Shmuckety, those are all Socket 478 and WAY too big to fit. A proper Socket 479 cooler may not even fit because the CPU isn't socketed, it's soldered direct to the board. I've got some here I can test fit, pretty much expect to need a spacer or modified backplate.
Click to expand...

I see what you're saying. You are gonna need something custom because it has to be wide enough to cover the cpu and the northbridge (i think that is) and it has to have enough clearance on the bottome to avoid the other components.

Maybe something small like one of these: http://www.xpcgear.com/iceberq4ccba4c.html or http://www.keenzo.com/showproduct.asp?ID=640569&ref=FRG1 with regular heatsink on the other piece. The holes are probably non standard, so you may be out of luck.
 
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