Say I were buying a new rig. The prices on the 939 Opterons are very attractive, however it looks like the series is coming to an end. Would I be better off going with the newer Intel Core 2 Duo's for future 'upgradeability'? Are they a real step up from standard dual core?
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939 dead? =(
- Thread starter andru
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If you are going with AMD dont expect to be able to upgrade more then a year from the socket and chipset release. If you look at AMDs history as of late... they toss out new sockets and chipsets every year it seems. If you are just looking at something to use now for a good price go with socket 939 you cant go wrong. Just ignore AMD2 because it will be outdated in a year anyway when AMD releases its new quad core socket and chipset. Unfortantely AMD isnt as good at future proofing their sockets and chipsets... Intel does a great job at this however.
nullzero said:
You are asuming much based on the current trend. Not saying purchase AMD, but wanting to clarify the socket trends and speculation.
I am expecting a new socket from Intel shortly as well, as they are also working on integrating the memory controller in the next Quad-core (not the currently shipping product) design. Since the current chipset has an external memory controller a new chipset and socket design is necessary. When is this going to happen exactly and what will happen to the current roadmap? It's as much of a guess as the AMD.
Rumor's start a while back: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/16/intel_integrates_mem_control/
SO the moral is, don't speculate on the longevity of either platforms existing socket platforms beyond a year, it's disingenous to suggest otherwise.
Also, where is the information about various sockets being of poor longevity for AMD? There's a little confusion based on the following:
AM2 socket: DDR2 single socket platform.
Socket F (1207 pin): DDR2 dual socket platform. Non-ECC platform for new generation of Opeterons for Workstation and ethusiast market.
AM3 socket: DDR3 single socket platform (same number of pins as AM2, but keyed slightly different so AM2 procs cannot be placed in AM3 motherboard).
What's interesting is that the AM3 processor will have a memory controller that supports not only DDR3 but also DDR2 and will be keyed in a manner that allows the AM3 to be placed in an AM2 motherboard along with DDR2 memory. The result is that there may not be any long term AM2 CPU designs beyond the next batch, but the socket will support AM3 processors in combination with DDR2 memory. So the AM2 socket has a longer lifetime, the lifetime of the AM2 roadmap and also the AM3 roadmap.
The other question is what is the DDR3 socket intentions for a Socket F successor? The 4x4 platform better clarify the DDR2/DDR3 roadmap better, or this is the short term platform.
That said, there's no doubt that the Core 2 Duo is the current king and wouldn't be a bad decission.
Yes and no. Socket A was around for a long time (From Athlon 800 - AthlonXP 3200+ and semprons) which was very nice. Since then AMD have been through s940, s754, s939, AM2 and SocketF, but that's split between servers, single and dual channel ram and ddr and ddr2. Having AM3 processors backwards compatible will be very nice. For regular consumers, it's been s754 -> s939 -> AM2. In a similar timeframe, Intel went from s479 (I think) -> s775, but also went through several chipsets as well. Conroes won't work in all s775 boards, for example.Martyr said:
I'd say the main reasons to avoid building a s939 rig right now are ddr1 memory, which is going to become obsolete very quickly, and the performance of conroe. If you really want to go amd, go AM2.
IanG said:
I also agree with this. I'm currently a 939 owner and expect to get great use from it for a while, but my next PC will be based on the trends at the time of purchase. If I were purchasing next week, it'd be Core 2 Duo (perhaps even Kentsfield, drool).
Look how intel handled quad core... it works on most core 2 duo motherboards with a simple bios update... Regarding the AM2 not being outdated because socket F will be server high end... That is the same thing AMD said about socket 754 difference between 939 and we all know how that ended up.
Seanmounce
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Socket AM3 is slated to be released in 2008, It will be semi backwards compatible with AM2. AMD has confirmed that AM3 processors will work in AM2 motherboards; however, AM2 processors will not be compatible with AM3 motherboards. It will also use DDR3 memory which will run at higher frequencies while using less power. 
sowingseason
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Go with a socket am2 opty or wait for socket F
In case that wasn't clear, the FX-60 was the last 939 processor in production. No new, including 65nm die refreshes, are going to be created for 939.
That said, the existing 939 CPu's still have a lot in them in terms of existing product. Since game development is still working out mult-threaded applications that are more than just coarse threading, you'll still eak more X2 performance from the 939 in the near future.
But that said, no new processors for the 939.
That said, the existing 939 CPu's still have a lot in them in terms of existing product. Since game development is still working out mult-threaded applications that are more than just coarse threading, you'll still eak more X2 performance from the 939 in the near future.
But that said, no new processors for the 939.
Riddlinkidstoner
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Dunno, I don't see why we wouldn't get any 65nm socket 939 refreshes.
RaphaelVinceti
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its a dead socket. they have moved on to socket AM2. Kinda like Intel has moved on to Socket T (LGA 775)
brutalis18-
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Hmmm.... right now, i'm working on a AMD build(my first..) and after about a week of researching i decided to go with socket 939...just because i think that would last me for a couple of years...and then eventually upgrading to the newiest AMD trend at the time....
im not looking for anything big...i just want to be able to play cs/wow i guess.. and i make movies...i want to OC ..unfortuantly i still have yet to figure out how to do that..
ifi were you i would just do what i'am doing. <3
im not looking for anything big...i just want to be able to play cs/wow i guess.. and i make movies...i want to OC ..unfortuantly i still have yet to figure out how to do that..
ifi were you i would just do what i'am doing. <3
Riddlinkidstoner
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I'll move onto AM2 probably summerish...for now I'm happy with my setup until I upgrade to an 8800GTX/S (not sure yet, but GTS seems to be more bang for buck) in December.
sowingseason
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The AM2s i've gotten (local) are surprisingly good overclockers =] idk why california is the best maybe hehe
SkylinGTR26
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Why make an amd rig this late in s939's life...
If i were you id get a lga775 conroe e6300 and overclock it
thats easy enough and itll be lightning quick, faster than any AMD cpu...
If i were you id get a lga775 conroe e6300 and overclock it
thats easy enough and itll be lightning quick, faster than any AMD cpu...
Viper87227
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AMD RULES said:id say its as dead as Pentium II's are
I'd say that is quite an ignorant statement, even though I know (read: hope) you are being sarcastic
You can still built a high end setup with 939, and people still are, and they are a shit load of people still running high end 939 setups, where moving to Core2 or AM2 just isn't justifyable for the price.
Next month, I am building a new system, and guess what, I am going 939. It's an SFF, and a T-Force and 3800+ is the cheapest Dual Core option out there, and it would still make for a damn good setup after overclocking.
From a manufacturing standpoint, 939 is dead, but as far as being dead technology, far from. .
tacosareveryyummy
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Gaming wise, how much real world difference will you see with ddr2 ram? Intel has been using ddr2 for a while now and amd was still blowing them out of the water in terms of gaming performance. Anyways for a college student it usually is a toss up between food and hardware. In my case I would rather go for the cheaper 939 skt than miss out on dinner for a month.
Viper87227
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tacosareveryyummy said:
None at all. Memory bandwith never ment much for games, expecially with A64's. DDR2 is faster, but at the cost of looser timeings. While it's bandwith is still higher, not enough to make any difference. Infact, in as closley speced as possible AM2 vs 939 systems, they were usually equal, but in some cases 939 was faster.
IMHO, AM2 is pretty damn useless. I would never ever spend more money for AM2 over 939. Expecially since we all know AM3 is on the horizion, which will be the performance leap AMD neaded for a new socket.
digitalxdna
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Viper87227 said:
+1.
i for one didn't move to Core 2 or AM2 just because of a few benchmarks, because i couldn't afford to sink more money into another build, even if i sold/parted out my gaming rig - and that excludes depreciation (which would be ~50%). even though s939 processors are @ EOL, they are by no means a representative of obsolete technology.
brutalis18-
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aman <3
D
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I thought AM3 was basically just a bios update and all or most AM2 mobos would be able to upgrade/flash with out any real problems, as AM3 was only going to bring ddr3 and a couple other changes but nothing substantial that would make you have to upgrade mobo and cpu again.nullzero said:
I could be wrong, but if that is the case, then forget about 939 and buy AM2 as atleast you will be able to flash to AM3 and then either use the AM2 cpu or buy a AM3 cpu if that story I heard was true that is, so you would be kinda future proofing yourself.
As I say I dont know if what I heard is the gospel truth, but I heard it from a few places ages ago and havent really read up about AM3 since AM2 was released so their has probably been a lot of changes that I dont know about...
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How about this: We wont get any 65nm Socket 939 chips because all new AM2 90nm chips and the 65 nm chips are being designed with DDR2 memory controllers and the Socket 939 platform uses DDR RAM not DDR2 RAM. So unless they take a huge step back ( which they wont ) we wont see any new S939 chips. It's not that they couldn't do it its just that they wont. AMD has been having some minor supply issues lately and they wont want to try to produce outdated S939 65nm chips in addition to all the other chips they have to produce. They aren't going to redesign the Toledo core to use a DDR2 memory controller. It just wouldnt make sense from a technological or business standpoint.Riddlinkidstoner said:
Viper87227 said:
Well, the AM2 socket will support an AM3 processor, so it has some future upgradability support. The AM3 processor is designed to support both DDR2 and DDR3 memory.
What won't be possible is to place an AM2 processor in an AM3 socket, so there's a key pin that will exist in the AM3 socket that isn't present on the AM2, but doesn't prevent an AM3 from fitting into an AM2 socket.
AM2 is AMD's intial transition into DDR2 memory. The manufacturing of DDR1 has ceased and the memory currently in the channel will eventually sellout. AMD just needed to cover the possibility of that happening sooner than later. Fortuantely, they also recognized that the electrical differences of the DDR2/DDR3 memory types are easily supported in a single memory controller, so they are planning on this support for AM3.
So you are right that the AM2 processors are designed to be a short lived transition, but fortunately for those that invest in an AM2 motherboard and DDR2 memory, the AM3 can be placed into that board. Sure it'll run slower on memory access than a full AM3 proc/AM3 motherboard/DDR3 memory setup, but you go with what you can afford.
BigMacAttack
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metallicafan said:
While I agree that you are more than likely correct I have learned to "expect the unexpected" from AMD. Socket 754 was declared dead and buried by AMD at the 130nm architectural level. 1.5 years after this declaration what did they do? They released the 3000, 3200 and 3400 A64's as well as a line of Semprons all based on the 90nm architecture! In the Semprons the core was named "Palermo", in the A64's it was named "Venice" even though it was the exact same core. The only difference was the amount of L2 cache. Semprons got 128 or 256 kb while the Venices got 512 kb.
So while I don't really expect any 65nm skt 939 parts because AMD has stated EOL (end of life) for the skt 939 platform as Q2 2007 (I believe) you never know what they might do.
Never say never.
Hornswoggler
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Yep. Unfortunately s939 is dead, which is too bad. With the K7 socket lasting as long as it did, I held out for the s939 and build a system as soon as it was available... hoping AMD would continue the trend of long-lasting CPU sockets (I like to get a few years out of each upgrade) but I guess having the on-die memory controller means new memory = new socket.
Also disappointing the AM2 socket's end is in sight.
Anybody know when s775 is being retired?
My personal system is a dead end because of the AGP graphics... i should have waited for nForce 4.
This spring I am going s775 and a Core 2 Duo! Should be a beast.
Also disappointing the AM2 socket's end is in sight.
Anybody know when s775 is being retired?
My personal system is a dead end because of the AGP graphics... i should have waited for nForce 4.
This spring I am going s775 and a Core 2 Duo! Should be a beast.
foofighter06
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Hornswoggler said:
From what i've seen it will support quad core.
Which would keep AM2 alive for a long time.
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4943
Manny Calavera
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IanG said:I don't think so, I don't think there's any new chips planned at all for s939.
If this is true,then I am most certainly going C2D in the spring/early summer.If I am forced to throw out perfectly good ram and mobo,then the hell with AMD.