8 Million Reasons for Real Surveillance Oversight

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by HardOCP News, Dec 2, 2009.

  1. HardOCP News

    HardOCP News [H] News

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    If you are a Sprint Nextel customer you will probably want to read this. Apparently the company provided law enforcement agencies with its customers' GPS location information over eight million times between September 2008 and October 2009. Wow.
     
  2. bbf

    bbf Gawd

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    This sucks... what ever happened to not revealing personal data without a court order?

    The stupid thing is, this isn't even the Fed monitoring system that supposedly intercepts all calls and internet data that is protected by Presidential decree. Sprint's just letting any member of "law enforcement" to login and query for location information... I smell a class action lawsuit coming in 3, 2, 1. :-O (Deserved one, for once.)
     
  3. SomethingClever

    SomethingClever Limp Gawd

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    Hey ... if ya ain't doing anything wrong ...... then you have nothing to worry about.

    RITE?
     
  4. ctamez

    ctamez [H]Lite

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    Wow, 8 million times. I would be curious to know how many customers where located instead of a total number of traces.
     
  5. magoo

    magoo [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I echo that:
    if you aren't doing anything wrong or suspicious, you have nothing to fear.

    if you are, invest in tin foil, or change your cellular carrier.:eek::eek:
     
  6. fasterthanlight

    fasterthanlight Gawd

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    As a US citizen you should expect law enforcement to protect your civil rights. Period.
     
  7. grizzed

    grizzed Limp Gawd

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    As a US citizen your rights are you responsibility to protect and defend. The govt is not going to do that for you. Anyone who expects anything different is a fool.

    the same thing the british were saying 200+ years ago.
     
  8. ir0nw0lf

    ir0nw0lf [H]ardness Supreme

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    *cough* Salem Witch Trials *cough*
     
  9. Antonius

    Antonius Limp Gawd

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    Well, to be fair, there are many cases where that information is requested on an emergency basis for non insidious reasons. A person calls 911 and screams for help and is disconnected, a woman is locked inside a trunk when kidnapped and is moving, etc. Under certain emergency circumstances like these, they provide the info without a court order. It is not as simple as calling the phone company and asking for the location info because you are tracking some guy for your own purposes, contrary to what some imbeciles think.
     
  10. Ualdayan

    Ualdayan [H]ard|Gawd

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    Except a law enforcement officer who maybe isn't quite as moral as you and has no problem doing something people would consider wrong for some gain. Remember - it isn't an officers job to determine if you are guilty or not - it's there job to get as much as they can to make you appear guilty so the prosecutor can make you appear guilty. It's your defense attorney who's job is to make you appear innocent. An officer doesn't have to prove guilt to arrest.
     
  11. krupted

    krupted 2[H]4U

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    its a absolute, complete and total invasion of privacy. the bigger problem is you gotta be ignorant to think all the other carriers dont do this as well. shit, att gives cops anything on their network. voice, gps... anything. and im sure they all do, we just dont read about it yet.

    if there are over 8 million requests a year for gps locations, then cops need to find another way to do their work (like their dads and graddads did).
     
  12. tubular

    tubular Gawd

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    this is scary shit
     
  13. turdhat

    turdhat Limp Gawd

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    B.S. I have nothing to hide but who is to say that law enforcement can be trusted ? Who has access to this system ? Are they using it to hunt down old girl friends ? A dirty cop might use it in ways we cant imagine.

    The idea that if you are not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry is the wrong attitude to have. This would imply a complete trust in your government and law enforcement. Can ANYONE here really be honest and say they trust either 100% ? There are dirty cops, dirty lawmakers etc. You can bet the system is being abused. Dont be a passive puss.
     
  14. XBarbarian

    XBarbarian [H]ard|Gawd

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    that old bs arguement that "if you have nothing to worry about...." blah blah

    that is childish and ignorant of History. Everytime, everytime, a Gov or a group,has aquired the capacity to exploit information, it has. Certainly US /Soviet / Chinese etc.
    Innocence or guilt is irrelvant. Information is Power, or worse, technoilogy that allows the ability to create information. Assuming Benevolence is absurd.
     
  15. chrispix

    chrispix Gawd

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    I have to agree with this. I still don't think the town where I live has Phase 3 911 activated yet. So their dispatch system can't see where a wireless call is coming from. All they can see is the tower in which they are connected. It would be interesting to see how many GPS coordinates were released due to 911 calls and trying to locate someone who did not know where they were..
     
  16. bmorg003

    bmorg003 [H]Lite

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    I don't remember reading that in the fine print of my Sprint contract... at least let people know, give them an opt in/out (something), but to just give that information out without question through some web interface (that can probably be hacked)... scary stuff is right! Welcome to 1984!

    It's not a problem until someone misuses it (and I guarantee someone will), and it's not really that important of a problem until someone is misusing it on you. I find it better to err on the side of caution, and at least have some sort of system to track what the authorities need this information and to let the customers know that this information is being given out at the very least...
     
  17. Peteman100

    Peteman100 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I wonder if this is just a Sprint thing, or common practice in the mobile ISP industry
     
  18. GoldenTiger

    GoldenTiger [H]ard as it Gets

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    Surely not 8 million in a year... ;).
     
  19. jandar

    jandar Limp Gawd

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    ATT and Verizon wont comment on the FOI letter sent to them.

    I would think that all do this.
     
  20. xrealm20

    xrealm20 Gawd

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    +1 to that....
     
  21. ReconSniper

    ReconSniper [H]ard|Gawd

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    OK, first off, your local Joe Blow police officer cant just call ATT or Sprint and ask for a location. This all goes through Dispatch and or a communications center. For instance, if someone dials 911 and hangs up, dispatch will call the cell carrier, provide a "pin" to the carrier and access that phone number based on the specific reason. It is all logged and the carrier keeps records of everything, along with the requesting agency. This is a VERY good thing. I can not tell you how many people we have apprehended based on Cell phone pings.

    And to everyone who thinks this is something new.... Remember the O.J. Simpson chase? If you remember watching that, they said they located his vehicle based on cell towers and calls to his kids. So this has been going on for a while. If you dont like it, dont use a cellphone. Or dont commit crimes, that helps too.
     
  22. greenfrogman

    greenfrogman Ad Blocker - Banned

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    8 mill seems high i am betting that its per GPS hit (the same user may have been hit 300 times for location tracking, 1 per location request for tracking info as users do move around with these devices so they can work out witch way they are going and final destination)
     
  23. Hamish Campbell

    Hamish Campbell 2[H]4U

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    I think everyone in this thread missed the sarcasm in this post. Go back and try again.
     
  24. Hamish Campbell

    Hamish Campbell 2[H]4U

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    If you on the other hand were at all serious then whelp... this is why the terrorists won.
     
  25. Hulahoops

    Hulahoops Limp Gawd

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    I would suspect common but kept private, in the US you tend to have a private a system where the government etc does this on the hush hush where as in the Uk it is fairly open although it seems the later annoys more people than the private system.
     
  26. Mike Armstrong

    Mike Armstrong Limp Gawd

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    Nah, lots of paranoia out there.

    Every time I hear someone scream 'thats an invasion of my privacy!' I think, huh, what is it that your trying to hide dude? 'Big brother' can follow me all day long, I could care less. I don't watch kiddy porn or hack into bank accounts, sell stolen goods on the black market or even call 1-900 #'s. Their gonna find my life very boring, that is, from a law breaking point of view. I do a lot of things in my life, criminal activity is not one of them.

    But if your one of those immoral low lifes that slither amongst the 10% of the population responsible for 90% of the crime then I want every avenue available to find you out and strap you to the table with the death cocktail streaming into your veins.

    Are you one of them? Too bad for you, quit your wining loser.
     
  27. SamuraiInBlack

    SamuraiInBlack [H]ardness Supreme

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    as it was said in Training Day:

    its not what you KNOW. its what you can PROVE.
    Posted via [H] Mobile Device
     
  28. B^gD^ddy~CF~

    B^gD^ddy~CF~ Limp Gawd

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    I don't necessarily have a problem with this as long as there is some sort of oversight. I don't mean the kind of oversight the patriot act has(we used this provision x number of times, with no chance to catch abuse of the system). I guess this is all moot anyway as someone above said it is true that all IP packets which go through at least major hubs in the United States are duplexed off and stored, then looked through by machines. Those that get flagged because they match a filter have to be listened to by an analyst. Only at that point according to the feds has your information been intercepted. They have to file for a warrant at that point but under revised FISA laws they can even hold off doing that for some time. The head of the NSA put the amount of data they now have to comb over at petabytes/month(PBS Nova "The Spy Factory"). A system that notably doesn't work well for catching terrorists all by itself but should you pop up on their radar they can take an extensive look into everything you've done since this system went live. Welcome to the new land of the free and the brave.
     
  29. XBarbarian

    XBarbarian [H]ard|Gawd

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    then your a fool, Mike..or ignorant of history.

    Once Gov or groups have the power to do this, all it takes is "Anonymous" call, Hes a pedo, or whatever..

    now the burden is on you to prove your innocence.

    Scenario: your dog poops on the little old lady's yard down the street. Shes pissed. calls in a BS claim anonymously your a terrorist, pedo, whatever..

    now they are all over. Problem.. one of the guys is the friend of a friend of a friend to a girl you dumped. he decides to plant some eveidence... drops a bag of crack in your house, in your car whatever..

    if your like..'"that cant happen" then your unteachable.. becasue it happens everyday
     
  30. Hamish Campbell

    Hamish Campbell 2[H]4U

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    LOL aren't you cute. I can guarantee you that you've broken at least one law in the past week. Either on the road or at home in your private life. Everyone has, everyone does. That's the benefit of living in a modern police state.
     
  31. XBarbarian

    XBarbarian [H]ard|Gawd

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    exactly! and when people have unaccountable power and access, then they can prove whatever they want...while you on the other hand..can't prove innocence
     
  32. XBarbarian

    XBarbarian [H]ard|Gawd

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    o..btw..there is no 4th amendment at this point. Patriot Act gave the authorities the ability with out that hassel of getting a warrant, to go into your home, search it, without probable cause, and no need to inform you, or respond to a judge ... learn the laws before you assume.. hell..they can pick american citizens up off the street, ship to gitmo..for 2 years withOUT notifiyng family, a lawyer, etc. miranda laws are dead.
     
  33. ferrisnox

    ferrisnox Gawd

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    For all of those completely stupid people always chanting "If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to hide". Please pack your bags and get the fuck out of this country. You obviously have no idea why Americans are and having been fighting to death in wars since the beginning of this country.

    Somehow you stupid people missed the most important lesson that was supposed to be taught to you when you were knee high. That is we are a free country of people with inalienable rights. That means not for any reason can these rights be infringed upon.
    If you have a problem with that... honestly leave. Because it is one of the most important and fundamental decrees of all time. Also the founders of this country thought most of people would be able to understand and get their heads around such a basic concept.

    No matter how scary terrorism or anything else for that matter is, you absolutely cannot give up your rights... or you do not deserve to live here period. People have and will have died for this... take it seriously and treasure it or STFU.
     
  34. B^gD^ddy~CF~

    B^gD^ddy~CF~ Limp Gawd

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    Let me just say that if your breaking the law in any way your screwed if the enforcement people at that level notice you anyway. I guarrantee almost everyone here could be made to fit under the definition of terrorist now. If you don't believe me go read section 802 of the patriot act. It's very broadly worded, this is not an accident. The act was written before 911, but 911 gave them the excuse to get this bill through. Luckily for those behind this bill most of your senators, and congressmen don't actually read or comprehend 90% of the bills they vote into or out of law.
    http://www.aclu.org/national-security/how-usa-patriot-act-redefines-domestic-terrorism
    Don't go blaming your government though. It is the apathy of the common United States citizen that allows these things to happen.
     
  35. Hamish Campbell

    Hamish Campbell 2[H]4U

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    I totally agree with your sentiment here but it's important to remember that Americans are allowed to have dumbass opinions too. It would be a lot better if people on both sides would stop telling the other to leave.

    That said, yea all these idiots saying "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" seriously haven't got a clue.
     
  36. Hulahoops

    Hulahoops Limp Gawd

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    I tend to think that quite a few people will see the answers to your own questions as little more than idealism, I'm sure there are sadly a lot of rather more disturbing answers.
     
  37. JUSTJOEL73

    JUSTJOEL73 Gawd

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    The next best thing to being microchipped is to carry around a cell phone
     
  38. Crispy002

    Crispy002 [H]ard|Gawd

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    -Benjamin Franklin
     
  39. gtg465x

    gtg465x 2[H]4U

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    How does this even work? First of all, GPS chips in cell phones are always off unless applications are using them. Is there a special hidden application installed on every phone from every manufacturer that allows GPS location requests? Seems like maybe they are confusing GPS location with cell tower location?
     
  40. Flexion

    Flexion [H]ard|Gawd

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    Honestly you don't have to take cellular carriers shit if you don't want to. I'm not a criminal, but seriously if they want your business and you read the contract carefully (they're 20 pages long to test your patience), sign in person and cross out all of the shit you don't agree with, and do not sign over anything that says I agree with all the terms, yada, yada... You could in fact get monetary compensation for damages if they used this against you in any way...

    You'd be surprised, they still want your business, well, maybe Apple and AT&T won't really care... hahahaha...