8 Million Reasons for Real Surveillance Oversight

gtg465x said:
How does this even work? First of all, GPS chips in cell phones are always off unless applications are using them. Is there a special hidden application installed on every phone from every manufacturer that allows GPS location requests? Seems like maybe they are confusing GPS location with cell tower location?
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Just because you aren't running an application doesn't mean you can't be found. There is always a way to remote access things, whether it is through a simple program or actually having to hack one's way into it. I'm sure there's a means of remote GPS location that isn't being spoken of.
 
your settings can be overridden by the carrier is this why you can turn of location information usage on most phones for all but 911 calls. Even if you have that set to don't use, but you pocket dial 911(RIM, really do I need to have "Place an Emergency call" as one of the options on my blackberry's lockout menu) cops will encircle you. It isn't perfect but triangulation can get them pretty close.
 
SamuraiInBlack said:
Just because you aren't running an application doesn't mean you can't be found. There is always a way to remote access things, whether it is through a simple program or actually having to hack one's way into it. I'm sure there's a means of remote GPS location that isn't being spoken of.
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Even if there is a way, most people are indoors 95% of the time where their GPS chips can't get a signal.
 
B^gD^ddy~CF~ said:
your settings can be overridden by the carrier is this why you can turn of location information usage on most phones for all but 911 calls. Even if you have that set to don't use, but you pocket dial 911(RIM, really do I need to have "Place an Emergency call" as one of the options on my blackberry's lockout menu) cops will encircle you. It isn't perfect but triangulation can get them pretty close.
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Yeah, but those settings are usually for triangulation, not for GPS.
 
Oh the Patriot Act just leaves up all with the warm, fuzzy feelings that we are being watched and protected, right?
 
All I know is, if the police are ever looking for me, the first thing I will do is turn off my cell phone. Otherwise, I like the idea that if I get kidnapped there might be a way to locate me.
 
Everyone needs to use Go phones without GPS.

If you need GPS, buy a handheld one way unit
 
Sprint it not the only carrier doing this, its really no big deal. Also I believe the way they are displaying data for this is that each data point counts as 1. So if they are tracking someone and check every 2 or 3 minutes to create a log of their actions, that adds up quickly. Its not like 8 million people were tracked individually.

Sprint are the #3 carrier in the US. Do you think cops just give up when people they are looking for are not using Sprint service? Hell no. If Verizon and AT&T released numbers for similar behavior the numbers will be much more impressive...
 
kent said:
Everyone needs to use Go phones without GPS.

If you need GPS, buy a handheld one way unit
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A lot of handheld GPS units have a cell connection these days for traffic and such, don't they? They aren't "safe" either, so be sure to get a crappy one lol.
 
bbf said:
This sucks... what ever happened to not revealing personal data without a court order?

The stupid thing is, this isn't even the Fed monitoring system that supposedly intercepts all calls and internet data that is protected by Presidential decree. Sprint's just letting any member of "law enforcement" to login and query for location information... I smell a class action lawsuit coming in 3, 2, 1. :-O (Deserved one, for once.)
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GBW decided that only a terrorist would want to have privacy thus all methods of surveillance used by the government require no oversight or court permission to use.

Unless you live 100% off the grind and never go outside, never been to a doctor or were born in a hospital, never use the phone, email, or a computer in general... you are/have been kept tabs on via some form of data mining system.


Only criminals should worry about privacy, don't break the law and your fine.
 
magoo said:
I echo that:
if you aren't doing anything wrong or suspicious, you have nothing to fear. if you are, invest in tin foil, or change your cellular carrier.:eek::eek:
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Not to worry, as long as you keep your head up there, they probably won't be able to hear what you're saying, anyway. ;)
 
Nanan said:
GBW
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GBW stands for: George Bush "Dubya" Edition! Sorry to nitpick.

Leave it to good 'ol Dubya to make everyone suspect. Too much pot will do that to ya! That's what happens when teh Axis of Evil hits home.
 
Makes me think of the movie - "Enemy of the State." Scary stuff in the wrong hands...
 
GoldenTiger said:
Surely not 8 million in a year... ;).
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You would be surprised. Sprint has apx 49.1 Million subscribers in 2009 [link] That is apx 16% of the subscribers calling 911 over the course of the year.

Other stats : Apx 2.4% of the entire population is encarcerated.
Annual Car Accidents 6,420,000 (2005) annually. [link]
Apx 250 million wireless subscribers, Sprint has apx 20-25% market share according to 2005 numbers [link]
16% of people now don't have land lines.
Apx 21,917 requests per day.
If each state was equally represented, that is apx 438 requests per state per day.


The city where I used to work had a population of apx 50,000. They had 3 dispatchers typically on duty. Regardless if it was a police or fire emergency they would have had access to this system to try and locate someone. Say they averaged 6 calls per hour, 3 people, 24hrs a day.

That is about 423 calls per day. Now if 16% of these calls were wireless, and 20% of those were sprint (This would be people who have no home telephone, but would have cell) would be 13 calls per day. For a city of 50,000

Might seem high, but if larger cities have mandatory lookups that automatically open the portal w/ the caller information to locate them, it seems like it is not that bad..
 
ReconSniper said:
OK, first off, your local Joe Blow police officer cant just call ATT or Sprint and ask for a location. This all goes through Dispatch and or a communications center. For instance, if someone dials 911 and hangs up, dispatch will call the cell carrier, provide a "pin" to the carrier and access that phone number based on the specific reason. It is all logged and the carrier keeps records of everything, along with the requesting agency. This is a VERY good thing. I can not tell you how many people we have apprehended based on Cell phone pings.

And to everyone who thinks this is something new.... Remember the O.J. Simpson chase? If you remember watching that, they said they located his vehicle based on cell towers and calls to his kids. So this has been going on for a while. If you dont like it, dont use a cellphone. Or dont commit crimes, that helps too.
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Also keep in mind that Mr. Taylor never used the word "customer". When we are talking about 8 million requests, we need to be exact as to how we characterize the data being requested.
 
ReconSniper said:
OK, first off, your local Joe Blow police officer cant just call ATT or Sprint and ask for a location. This all goes through Dispatch and or a communications center. For instance, if someone dials 911 and hangs up, dispatch will call the cell carrier, provide a "pin" to the carrier and access that phone number based on the specific reason. It is all logged and the carrier keeps records of everything, along with the requesting agency. This is a VERY good thing. I can not tell you how many people we have apprehended based on Cell phone pings.

And to everyone who thinks this is something new.... Remember the O.J. Simpson chase? If you remember watching that, they said they located his vehicle based on cell towers and calls to his kids. So this has been going on for a while. If you dont like it, dont use a cellphone. Or dont commit crimes, that helps too.
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For all the people getting really worked up about this, you need to read this reply a few times and let it sink in. It's not nearly as crazy you may think it is. Chill. I can attest to it since I've seen the whole process worked (I'd rather not tell my life story as to the how).
 
bbf said:
This sucks... what ever happened to not revealing personal data without a court order?

The stupid thing is, this isn't even the Fed monitoring system that supposedly intercepts all calls and internet data that is protected by Presidential decree. Sprint's just letting any member of "law enforcement" to login and query for location information... I smell a class action lawsuit coming in 3, 2, 1. :-O (Deserved one, for once.)
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No class action... Hate to break the new but...

Thanks, to the Patriot Act and the Freedom Act for our privacy is depleted now.

Thanks to the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, our population/government is allowing off-shore bankers to run our Free, was free, country.
 
SomethingClever said:
Hey ... if ya ain't doing anything wrong ...... then you have nothing to worry about.

RITE?
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While your statement is certainly true, the problem is it is just ONE more thing in a domino effect that is eroding personal privacy as well arguably some constitutional rights.
 
Thats why I turn off my cell phone when I'm out committing armed robberies, rapes, home invations, car jackings, etc..... with out the cellphone on they can't prove I was there. Plus my cloak of invisibility & tin foil hat protects me too.
 
Crispy002 said:
-Benjamin Franklin
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i think its something more like -

"Those who give up essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety."

correct me if im wrong though, its one of the most critical quotes ever in our country's history.
 
C-rizzle said:
Thats why I turn off my cell phone when I'm out committing armed robberies, rapes, home invations, car jackings, etc..... with out the cellphone on they can't prove I was there. Plus my cloak of invisibility & tin foil hat protects me too.
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i leave my cellphone at home when i go to the grocery store, i dont need anyone know im doing that. problem is i use my plus card that tracks what i buy every week for years on end so my cover is blown either way. one time i used cash, but i accidentally drove through an intersection that is equipped with video cameras so i was fucked from the 9'oclock that time.
 
krupted said:
i think its something more like -

"Those who give up essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety."

correct me if im wrong though, its one of the most critical quotes ever in our country's history.
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Ben Franklin changed the wording of the line as he used it numerous times in different papers. The meaning is the same across all variants.
 
C-rizzle said:
Thats why I turn off my cell phone when I'm out committing armed robberies, rapes, home invations, car jackings, etc..... with out the cellphone on they can't prove I was there.
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Actually that's wrong too - ask the mafia. I remember reading several stories where they remotely listened to conversations in a room with a phone the mob had turned off. Gotta take out the battery...
 
Ouch. Pretty sure that goes on up here North of yer border too.
I just shrug nowadays. I'm ready to fight the good fight...but to what end? Power continues to corrupt, no matter the players, so a forced change of roster will do no good, either.
So...apathy it is.

..M'eh.
 
Blyss+ said:
Ouch. Pretty sure that goes on up here North of yer border too.
I just shrug nowadays. I'm ready to fight the good fight...but to what end? Power continues to corrupt, no matter the players, so a forced change of roster will do no good, either.
So...apathy it is.

..M'eh.
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this is more true then ever because the population is so large. even in america, you could gather a million people that have the same idea as you do, and really it wont do much of anything. there will still be 300 million others that just want to go to work and come home, and an entire world army against any type of major reform.
 
SpaceHonkey said:
Actually that's wrong too - ask the mafia. I remember reading several stories where they remotely listened to conversations in a room with a phone the mob had turned off. Gotta take out the battery...
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and put a piece of tape over that webcam on the top of your laptop so some jackass in washington wont see your O face.
 
The average American has some form data on them processed by some computer somewhere be it a business or govt. computer at least 5 times a day. That's without making any purchases, or even leaving your home for that matter. (or using the internet that day). Or so I've heard. But I'd lean towards it being true.
 
you f$%#ers deserve this. Did you really think you could surf the web all day and leave it to the people in Washington to give a crap about you?
 
meh I really dont care
by the .0000001% chance some cop randomly decides to track down my phone's GPS signal, more power to them because it definitely wont reveal anything remotely interesting
 
Nanan said:
GBW decided that only a terrorist would want to have privacy thus all methods of surveillance used by the government require no oversight or court permission to use.

Unless you live 100% off the grind and never go outside, never been to a doctor or were born in a hospital, never use the phone, email, or a computer in general... you are/have been kept tabs on via some form of data mining system.


Only criminals should worry about privacy, don't break the law and your fine.
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Who is monitoring those that are monitoring us and how do we know they aren't doing anything criminal?
 
Problem is Steve, this is probably not Fourth Amendment protected activity. Where you are (as opposed to what you are saying) is probably not info cops need to get a warrant for.

Only a US Code change would likely fix this.

Steve said:
If you are a Sprint Nextel customer you will probably want to read this. Apparently the company provided law enforcement agencies with its customers' GPS location information over eight million times between September 2008 and October 2009. Wow.
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Police are chartered to Protect and Defend. ...Defend what...? The Constitution my friend. You don't get to be a cop and then go home and be a citizen again. They should be vigilent also.
 
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