5090 Production Halted

III_Slyflyer_III said:
Yeah, I think some people forget this forum has A LOT of enthusiasts... 5080 and below for a majority of gamers out there is more than fine. If this was not a main hobby of mine I work for, I would not have half the equipment I have... 😅
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And it would be fine even for enthusiasts. Look, I love my 5090, I love that I am in a position in life where I can have stupid expensive shit for my hobby... but I also recognize that I can have plenty of fun without it. My laptop has a mobile 4080 so 12GB so about a 4070-4070ti, right in the main stream of what you see on Steam... And it is completely fine and is a good gaming experience. No I don't get all the shinies, but it works just fine. I can and do easily play and have fun on it when the desktop isn't available for various reasons. There are plenty of games I can play on even less, and still have fun.

It's a big difference between "I like having this," and "If I can't have this the hobby isn't fun."

Hell, I've been a gamer since before I can remember, and a PC enthusiast since I was 12 and during most of that time, I didn't get to have the highest end card, and back then the highest end wasn't even as high end as the 90 cards. I had a top of the line system with dual Voodoo2 12MBs for awhile, but after that it was all most midrange. I had a GeForce 3 Ti 200, a Radeon 9800 SE, a GeForce 8800 GTS, a GeForce 570, etc. Not an all inclusive list (I can't remember all of them), but in general: Not the top end, at least one slot down, and I didn't upgrade every generation, every other at most. I didn't get a top of the line card until the 1080Ti, and of course that is in line with the 5080, not the 5090. It wasn't until the 3090 that I both had and decided to spend the money to just go all out.


Please don't misunderstand: I'm not happy about datacenter companies buying every fucking GPU and stick of memory. It is annoying as hell, worse than the cryptomining days, but saying that gaming is coming to an end because you can't have a super expensive halo product is silly. I mean even if they were ever available at MSRP (which they really weren't) $2000 for a GPU is a nice product. Most people aren't going to be able ot afford one, and many people who can aren't going to choose to afford one. Hence games WILL work fine on lesser hardware.

I love 4k, I love high FPS, I love path tracing. However I can have fun without all those things. It won't ruin the hobby for me.
 
Dan_D said:
I don't do charity work. If AMD wants to improve their GPU division, they need to invest in it. AMD doesn't have a product that really challenges the 5070 Ti, they have nothing that matches a 5080, they have nothing remotely close to a 5090 or last generations 4090 cards. AMD simply doesn't have the performance offerings I want. I'm not going to buy an objectively worse GPU on the hopes that AMD will one day make good use of that money.
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I bet if game devs actually optimized thier games rather than relying on wizard magic and unicorn powered dlss fairy frames, AMD would actually perform like nvidia. But we know game development relies exclusively on nVidia dlss and frame generation to pretend a game is performing well.
 
tangoseal said:
I bet if game devs actually optimized thier games rather than relying on wizard magic and unicorn powered dlss fairy frames, AMD would actually out perform nvidia. But we know game development relies exclusively on nVidia dlss and frame generation to pretend a game is performing well. I havent posted in a while but the nV bias is clearly ginormous!
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Yeah, that's not how things work.
 
tangoseal said:
Well it actually is. But im not going to argue about it. Youtube is overflowing with proof of game devs not optimizing games and relying on dlss and frame gen to do all the work.
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It isn't. AMD is still way behind NVIDIA on raster performance.

Also, optimization isn't really what people generally think it is.
 
tangoseal said:
Well it actually is. But im not going to argue about it. Youtube is overflowing with proof of game devs not optimizing games and relying on dlss and frame gen to do all the work.
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No. I am a game developer. These people on YouTube don't know what they're talking about 99% of the time.
 
Dan_D said:
It isn't. AMD is still way behind NVIDIA on raster performance.

Also, optimization isn't really what people generally think it is.
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Gamers seem to think optimization is a magic tree you shake. It costs nothing, has no tradeoffs, and takes no time, you just shake the optimization tree and FPS and good graphics fall out. Shake it enough, and why you can have photorealistic graphics on a 486 probably! The only reason devs don't do it is because they are lazy!


For those wondering, that is NOT how optimization works. It often involves tradeoffs, you "optimize" by removing something, downscaling something, faking something, etc. You figure out ways of doing things that take less time and offer an acceptable tradeoff. Likewise, tradeoff or no, it all takes time and effort. Time spent optimizing the code is time not spent implementing new systems, making another game, making the world larger, etc. Likewise sometimes there's a good reason to do things less optimal, performance wise. A good example would be using scripting for logic and conversations instead of just putting it directly in the main code. It is less efficient CPU and memory wise... but it makes it WAY easier to iterate on design, and easier to mod. Hence many games do it.
 
Sycraft said:
And it would be fine even for enthusiasts. Look, I love my 5090, I love that I am in a position in life where I can have stupid expensive shit for my hobby... but I also recognize that I can have plenty of fun without it. My laptop has a mobile 4080 so 12GB so about a 4070-4070ti, right in the main stream of what you see on Steam... And it is completely fine and is a good gaming experience. No I don't get all the shinies, but it works just fine. I can and do easily play and have fun on it when the desktop isn't available for various reasons. There are plenty of games I can play on even less, and still have fun.
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+10 to that. I'm in a similar position.

Back in late 2024 I was working on a new build while waiting for next gen cards to come out. New build would leave me short a vid card. Somehow Microcenter decided that to let people order ARC B580s for pickup on launch day. So I bought one. It was cheap and I wanted to play with the weird new thing from Intel.

A few months later I got my hands on a 5090. Now I have an extra vid card. So my 3060Ti got a new home and I kept the B580. 5090 is my main gaming card but I've gotten into a habit of checking out what the B580 can do whenever I get a new game. Guess I'm just a geek or something. It's fine. Cheap, slow, weird Intel thing is good enough to game on. If that's all I had, I'd still play.
 
Dan_D said:
It isn't. AMD is still way behind NVIDIA on raster performance.

Also, optimization isn't really what people generally think it is.
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I don’t see that per price tier where AMD is way ahead. For product tier neck to neck depending upon product, 9070 is way ahead of the 5070 for example on that product tier.

For highest unavailable or stupid priced cards, that AMD does not have a product tier for yes.
 
It's surprising that some people still think AMD is the savior of gamers. It has been painfully obvious that AMD is going all-in on AI at the expense of gaming for quite a while now. That's where the money's at.

If anything, Intel was the one who tried but is unfortunately failing with ARC.
 
Captain Newmackwa said:
It's surprising that some people still think AMD is the savior of gamers. It has been painfully obvious that AMD is going all-in on AI at the expense of gaming for quite a while now. That's where the money's at.
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Everyone is going to be all in on AI until either the bubble pops or things start sorting out and the winners and losers emerge. Then the companies that can't make tons on it will come back for other revenue streams.
 
Sycraft said:
And it would be fine even for enthusiasts. Look, I love my 5090, I love that I am in a position in life where I can have stupid expensive shit for my hobby... but I also recognize that I can have plenty of fun without it. My laptop has a mobile 4080 so 12GB so about a 4070-4070ti, right in the main stream of what you see on Steam... And it is completely fine and is a good gaming experience. No I don't get all the shinies, but it works just fine. I can and do easily play and have fun on it when the desktop isn't available for various reasons. There are plenty of games I can play on even less, and still have fun.

It's a big difference between "I like having this," and "If I can't have this the hobby isn't fun."

Hell, I've been a gamer since before I can remember, and a PC enthusiast since I was 12 and during most of that time, I didn't get to have the highest end card, and back then the highest end wasn't even as high end as the 90 cards. I had a top of the line system with dual Voodoo2 12MBs for awhile, but after that it was all most midrange. I had a GeForce 3 Ti 200, a Radeon 9800 SE, a GeForce 8800 GTS, a GeForce 570, etc. Not an all inclusive list (I can't remember all of them), but in general: Not the top end, at least one slot down, and I didn't upgrade every generation, every other at most. I didn't get a top of the line card until the 1080Ti, and of course that is in line with the 5080, not the 5090. It wasn't until the 3090 that I both had and decided to spend the money to just go all out.


Please don't misunderstand: I'm not happy about datacenter companies buying every fucking GPU and stick of memory. It is annoying as hell, worse than the cryptomining days, but saying that gaming is coming to an end because you can't have a super expensive halo product is silly. I mean even if they were ever available at MSRP (which they really weren't) $2000 for a GPU is a nice product. Most people aren't going to be able ot afford one, and many people who can aren't going to choose to afford one. Hence games WILL work fine on lesser hardware.

I love 4k, I love high FPS, I love path tracing. However I can have fun without all those things. It won't ruin the hobby for me.
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I am (and kind of always have been over the last 3+ decades) a graphics whore, so for me, the extra "oomph" is worth the price as a 4K gamer. I'm pretty much a max frames I can get and never sacrifice settings type of gamer. I am loving Path Tracing in games, and yeah, it takes a lot to run it. But I enjoy that forefront and am willing to pay for it. But for me, THAT is part of the fun, pushing tech as much as I can and seeing what is possible. Everyone is different. For me it's not just the game, but what the game can look like that is the fun for me. The 5090 is definitely a fringe card for people like me willing to spend a little more to satisfy that aspect of gaming.
 
III_Slyflyer_III said:
I am (and kind of always have been over the last 3+ decades) a graphics whore, so for me, the extra "oomph" is worth the price as a 4K gamer. I'm pretty much a max frames I can get and never sacrifice settings type of gamer. I am loving Path Tracing in games, and yeah, it takes a lot to run it. But I enjoy that forefront and am willing to pay for it. But for me, THAT is part of the fun, pushing tech as much as I can and seeing what is possible. Everyone is different. For me it's not just the game, but what the game can look like that is the fun for me. The 5090 is definitely a fringe card for people like me willing to spend a little more to satisfy that aspect of gaming.
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I am also a graphics whore, hence the 5090 here. I love it... but I appreciate that I don't NEED it to enjoy things. I can even enjoy games on the Nintendo Switch. Not how I'd rather play, to be sure, but I can play on one and have fun. If that was all I had, I'd still be a gamer.

I want higher end cards, I'm very much looking forward to the time when this nonsense calms down (it will, all cycles like it do) and someone, nVidia or someone else, starts making high end cards for us. But I'm not going to declare PC gaming over because the 5090 isn't being produced anymore.
 
Sycraft said:
I am also a graphics whore, hence the 5090 here. I love it... but I appreciate that I don't NEED it to enjoy things. I can even enjoy games on the Nintendo Switch. Not how I'd rather play, to be sure, but I can play on one and have fun. If that was all I had, I'd still be a gamer.

I want higher end cards, I'm very much looking forward to the time when this nonsense calms down (it will, all cycles like it do) and someone, nVidia or someone else, starts making high end cards for us. But I'm not going to declare PC gaming over because the 5090 isn't being produced anymore.
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Yeah, I'm not arguing with you FWIW, I legit have a PC on the opposite side of my office of my 5090 PC that has an old Voodoo 5 5500 in it, and I have put quite a bit of hours in it recently too getting back into a lot of older games I used to play. 😎 I could not afford it back when I had my Voodoo 3 3000, got it a few years back for a decent price, and re-enjoyed a lot of my older games, but with RGAA finally. Something about playing on old hardware and not emulators, it looked and felt great.
 
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Sycraft said:
I am also a graphics whore, hence the 5090 here. I love it... but I appreciate that I don't NEED it to enjoy things. I can even enjoy games on the Nintendo Switch. Not how I'd rather play, to be sure, but I can play on one and have fun. If that was all I had, I'd still be a gamer.

I want higher end cards, I'm very much looking forward to the time when this nonsense calms down (it will, all cycles like it do) and someone, nVidia or someone else, starts making high end cards for us. But I'm not going to declare PC gaming over because the 5090 isn't being produced anymore.
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I am having deja vu here, I swear there were people whining that PC gaming is so over back when the 5090's MSRP first got announced because the flagship card is now "too expensive" and because nobody can afford the flagship GPU anymore then PC gaming is dead. Now it's become that flagship GPUs simply don't exist anymore so because people can't buy it then PC gaming is dead. It's probably coming from the same people honestly :ROFLMAO:. The existence of unobtanium halo products does not determine the existence of PC gaming, period. As long as new generations of hardware continue to be released then graphics will continue to move forward. Even if there is no more halo tier 5090 and later a 6090, the 5080 still exists today and later on a 6080 will be faster and more capable of running the latest graphical features and so will a 7080 and so will an 8080.
 
I mean, it's all relative too, based on how much disposable income you may have for your own hobby. I have been a PC gamer since the 90's and it was not around until I had 1080's in SLi did I have enough to always just buy the halo product every single series no questions asked. I remember always buying the card under the top end for the longest time, not once did I think the hobby (or PC gaming) was ever going to die. It was just, finally, I could enjoy it always at peak.
 
MistaSparkul said:
I am having deja vu here, I swear there were people whining that PC gaming is so over back when the 5090's MSRP first got announced because the flagship card is now "too expensive" and because nobody can afford the flagship GPU anymore then PC gaming is dead. Now it's become that flagship GPUs simply don't exist anymore so because people can't buy it then PC gaming is dead. It's probably coming from the same people honestly :ROFLMAO:. The existence of unobtanium halo products does not determine the existence of PC gaming, period. As long as new generations of hardware continue to be released then graphics will continue to move forward. Even if there is no more halo tier 5090 and later a 6090, the 5080 still exists today and later on a 6080 will be faster and more capable of running the latest graphical features and so will a 7080 and so will an 8080.
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Ya I both love and hate the halo tier. I love it because it is more performance and I like that. SLI was never my thing and support has only gotten worse before it died, so this is how you get higher performance. However I hate it because somehow people make it the standard in their minds and that is where gaming gets compared, rather than at a more reasonable price point.
 
Captain Newmackwa said:
It's surprising that some people still think AMD is the savior of gamers. It has been painfully obvious that AMD is going all-in on AI at the expense of gaming for quite a while now. That's where the money's at.

If anything, Intel was the one who tried but is unfortunately failing with ARC.
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The what-ifs at Intel are crazy. How well would a modern iteration of Optane be doing right now? What if they never left the memory game in 1985 ( i know i know, this is for fun)?
 
noko said:
I don’t see that per price tier where AMD is way ahead. For product tier neck to neck depending upon product, 9070 is way ahead of the 5070 for example on that product tier.

For highest unavailable or stupid priced cards, that AMD does not have a product tier for yes.
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The 9070 XT, AMD's best card trails the 5070 Ti. Even then, you buy the 9070 XT for precisely two reasons over the 5070 Ti. The first is, you just hate NVIDIA and refuse to buy their products. The second is that it costs about $400 less with the way retailers have jacked the prices. The MSRP of the AMD card is a lot more attractive too, but again only because AMD had to slash prices to make it attractive. If AMD could charge more for it, they absolutely would. On a pure performance and software standpoint, AMD is WAY behind NVIDIA. AMD has no answer to the used 4080 Super's, 4090's, or current 5070 Ti, 5080 or the 5090. The 9070 XT isn't even always better than the previous flagship, the 7900XT.

Sure, at the right price the 9070 XT is somewhat attractive, (most anything is), but from a pure performance standpoint, it's a joke.
 
tangoseal said:
Well it actually is. But im not going to argue about it. Youtube is overflowing with proof of game devs not optimizing games and relying on dlss and frame gen to do all the work.
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That really not the case, the idea that game development is made with DLSS-frame generation in mind (one tech that is relatively new and just available on 4th-5th gen Nvidia card) more than PS5/Xbox or that game development effort do not have a giant amount of tools and effort geared toward hitting latency-fps, is obviously false, even as a ridiculous hyperbole for effect. If you look at PC game requirement, games tend to gravite a lot for the playable specs-60fps around a PS5 hardware equivalent with a bit of PC overhead tax for a reason.

Upscaling have been going since the "1080p" consoles and has been yes relied on to achieve good image quality and performance at those output since forever, but that does not mean there is no optimisation, just that the gain in resolution quickly has diminishing return that are not worth the sacrific needed for native resolution during the optimisation process.

We see it with the performance of AI made game (despite being trained on good example, using engine that had a lot of optmisation work provide, modern compiler, etc... and good programmers now) lot of work goes after a draft like that to make it release game quality.

Captain Newmackwa said:
It's surprising that some people still think AMD is the savior of gamers. It has been painfully obvious that AMD is going all-in on AI at the expense of gaming for quite a while now. That's where the money's at.
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They will still make 80-150 millions of the next generation well priced local gaming SOC in the next few years for Sony/Microsoft, like Nvidia they are not all-in in non gaming world endavor.
 
LukeTbk said:
They will still make 80-150 millions of the next generation well priced local gaming SOC in the next few years for Sony/Microsoft, like Nvidia they are not all-in in non gaming world endavor.
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If that's the case, Nvidia has an SOC in the Switch 2 and last I checked, that's the best selling console as of late. Obviously, I was referring to PC gaming.
 
LukeTbk said:
but that does not mean there is no optimisation
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When people say a game is unoptimized it does not literally mean no optimization whatsoever, but that they don't spend enough resources on making their game efficient. You can have all kinds of optimization but then completely tank performance with one badly implemented render pass.

So no optimization just means poor optimization.
 
LOCO LAPTOP said:
Maybe I should put mine a box for a while before my connector melts and sell it when it goes 10 grand. lol
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Have a new 5090 in the box, never opened. For a new build. Thinking I'll just hold onto it as an investment. Nothing I've owned has ever appreciated like this silly graphics card--well, the 64G of ram I bought has as well. Even the 4090 and ram in the current build is worth twice what it cost a few years back. Stupid times.
 
So serious question for those in the know or in the undustries, will datacenters and ai stuff have indefinite building up? Won't it level out at some point and then have growth proportional to demand? At that point wouldn't things go back to business as usual for consumer prices besides the generational increase in msrp's?
 
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A card using 600W shouldn't be a consumer/gaming product. Happy to have swapped my 5090 for a 5080 + 70ti , for less than a third of the 5090's current price. So far haven't even noticed much of a downgrade in performance when playing on the OC'd 5080, everything is still maxed or closed to maxed out at 120+ fps on my AW3225 monitor. Will try to snipe a 5080S whenever it lands coz card sniping is a hobby lol.
 
Their price tripled here where I'm. Unimaginable! I almost bought one few months ago when prices improved. Now I can't hope to buy one.
 
Stryker7314 said:
So serious question for those in the know or in the undustries, will datacenters and ai stuff have indefinite building up? Won't it level out at some point and then have growth proportional to demand? At that point wouldn't things go back to business as usual for consumer prices besides the generational increase in msrp's?
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fundamentally the GPU is the most powerful piece of hardware available (in terms of TFLOPS)

Jensen has been trying to make GPUs go brrr for a long time — and at last he has succeded

this is a permanent transformation. but there could be the possibility of a over-build up due to like what happens with the rail roads. another issue behind the price rise is the huge supply-demand mismatch of memory.

so at some point in 2029-2030, the memory supply should catch up with demand. probably even before that the AI boom might start getting deflated.

watch the bond markets
especially Oracle, Soft Bank & the neo-clouds
 
Stryker7314 said:
So serious question for those in the know or in the undustries, will datacenters and ai stuff have indefinite building up? Won't it level out at some point and then have growth proportional to demand? At that point wouldn't things go back to business as usual for consumer prices besides the generational increase in msrp's?
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It will be a long time before demand is met.
Probably decades.
 
tunatime said:
Keep it cool and run it at 450w and hopefully it lasts you a long time is about all we can do.
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Yep I have a watercooled one and still have fans blowing on the rear plate to keep it cool all around. Looks like this may be the best card for a very long time.

Interesting to see AIB's can no longer price gouge them out the gate being double the msrp. Suck it nerds.
 
tunatime said:
Keep it cool and run it at 450w and hopefully it lasts you a long time is about all we can do.
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Probably obvious given this is [H], but have your PC on a high-end surge protector. I've posted previously that I took out a rider on my homeowner's insurance policy to cover replacement cost of my daily driver PC given its cost to buy new is now north of $10,000.
 
Gigantopithecus said:
Probably obvious given this is [H], but have your PC on a high-end surge protector. I've posted previously that I took out a rider on my homeowner's insurance policy to cover replacement cost of my daily driver PC given its cost to buy new is now north of $10,000.
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Yep, I have a tech rider on my policy as well. It’s like $60 a year.
 
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