4K/UltraHD at half resolution?

B

Beckler

n00b
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
13
From what I read there are still many issues with using 4K resolution (Windows scaling, etc). But for example do the Dell Ultra HD displays at 3840 x 2160 support standard 1920x1080? This is exactly half the resolution (1/4 the pixels) so there should be no monitor scaling issues i.e. the image should be perfectly clear. Then I can just switch to 4K for videos, photos, etc. but use standard HD for most other stuff. I don't see why this wouldn't be the solution but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere yet.
 
In theory it should be clear as the pixels are divided evenly but in reality at least in these new tn panel 4k monitors the 1080p image is really really soft and this has been true for samsung, aoc, lenovo and asus to my knowledge. Its got probably something to do with the scaler used in these.
 
monitors usually use bilinear filtering which will look bad despite perfectly dividable pixel count
and even if it was point filtering which would look sharp then you would have ClearType subpixel issues which would make text look suboptimal

most awesome thing on 4K monitor is improved font rendering, using 1080p on it would make it worse than in normal monitor. Doesn't make much sense to me
 
GPU scaling might solve bad built in scaler, no? Of course that would limit refresh rate to that of @4K.
 
Church said:
GPU scaling might solve bad built in scaler, no? Of course that would limit refresh rate to that of @4K.
Click to expand...

GPU scaling in my experience can be worse than display's own scaler. At least that is the case with my Dell 3008WFP.

I don't think it makes much sense to get a 4K screen yet. A year from now the tech will probably be mature and perhaps third party support for scaling in apps better.
 
I used to play Diablo 2 at 800x600 on a 1600x1200 lcd, and it was clear and crisp like it was doing nearest neighbor resizing. I'm not sure if newer monitors use a fancier scaling algorithm that would make it blurry though.
 
Beckler said:
:( That's bad news. I wonder if the Dell 24" IPS i'm looking at is any better.
Click to expand...

I returned the Dell because I wasn't happy with the scaler. It was beautiful at 4k and 200% scaling in Windows, but there are too many buggy apps when using scaling. I planned on using it at 1080p for those buggy apps and to play games, but it just didn't look as good, to me, as my 2414H at 1080p. There are some who said it looked good to them at 1080p, but it didn't work out for me.
 
Thanks for the feedback. Appears it's not ready for prime time yet. Monitors really should have a special scaling mode for half resolution then as it would solve these early issues. It would look exactly the same as a native 1080 monitor except for the fine 'lines' between the four pixels, which I doubt you'd even notice since they're presumably even finer on a 4K display.
 
Beckler said:
:( That's bad news. I wonder if the Dell 24" IPS i'm looking at is any better.
Click to expand...

No, it is not. I have one. Also, you cannot have the GPU scale 1080p to 2160p, due to limitations in MST.

Some people with ATI cards claim it can be done, but I have seen ZERO evidence this can be done. Or rather, none of them have proved it AFAICT.
 
Rectal Prolapse said:
No, it is not. I have one. Also, you cannot have the GPU scale 1080p to 2160p, due to limitations in MST.

Some people with ATI cards claim it can be done, but I have seen ZERO evidence this can be done. Or rather, none of them have proved it AFAICT.
Click to expand...

I played 1080p games full screen when I had it. I was using a GTX 660 Ti, but I had to switch the display to SST mode, by disabling DisplayPort 1.2, for it to work.
 
Ah, I was hoping you got 1080->2160 scaling working on the GPU. Oh well.

BTW those whining about high PPI should get some glasses. :p

You never hear people complaining about the high DPI of magazine print... :)
 
Lava, I decided to try GPU scaling with DP1.1 and this time I got it to work (it wouldn't work earlier but likely an issue with earlier drivers). The Dell reports 2160@30 hz, but desktop remains at 1080p, and of course it works in games.

Naturally, 30 hz isn't ideal heh. The scaling is only slightly better than the monitor. Wish there was an easy setting to change the algorithm NVIDIA uses - nearest neighbor would be more than good enough.
 
the seiki 39 inch with flash will do perfect pixel doubling @ 1080p and 720p which divide evenly into 3840x2160. Its the only display I have seen that will do this.
 
GPU scaling on both NV and AMD use simple bilinear which is nowhere near point filtering sharpness. Not worth using imho due to monitors limitation.

also like I said, ClearType issues will make text look worse than native 1080p monitor and there is no way around that. Theoretically it could be emulated with fancy scaling that would emulate RGB subpixels but that will never ever happen...

besides, why paying extra for 4K monitor and then using it in 1080p? Its better to buy 1440p monitor then :eek:
 
That's good to know, houkouonchi.

Yeah, videocards do bilinear only. What a tragedy!

I use 2160p almost 100% of the time. Only some games I would need 1080 for (ie. Tomb Raider or newer Unreal Engine games not ported from console). Everything is crisp and detailed!

Also, I don't use cleartype - I use the alternative (MacType? I forgot what it is called) which does not do subpixel tricks from ClearType - works very well actually.
 
Rectal Prolapse said:
Ah, I was hoping you got 1080->2160 scaling working on the GPU. Oh well.

BTW those whining about high PPI should get some glasses. :p

You never hear people complaining about the high DPI of magazine print... :)
Click to expand...

You would, if everyone read magazines from 2 feet away. People can't hold desktop monitors in their hands, a couple inches away from their eyes.
 
Heh, I know people that read them 3 feet away - because they forgot to bring their reading glasses! They seem okay with it though, which is a little odd.
 
Hello, regurgitating an old thread here. How are these issues in 2020 ? I have a 34GK950F 3440 x 1440 monitor that I am trying to run at 1720 x 720 and it looks like shit. I am interested in a 3840 x 1600 monitor but I want to be able to run it at 1920 x 800 in a crystal clear fashion and I don't think thats possible, why do these pixel perfect scaling still cause issues ? When I run 1080p games on my LG C7 4k TV it looks absolutely perfect. What are they doing that these monitors aren't ?

Is their anyway to retain the sharpness and just have a perfect 4x1 pixel count ? I really would like to get a 3840 x 1600 but only if I could run games at half resolutions and then use the full resolution for desktop use, that would be absolutely ideal.

Why is this so difficult to get clear ? do certain monitors allow for perfect scaling like this and others don't ? I don't fully understand why this is such an issue with monitors yet TV's do it flawlessly.
 
Nvm my post, it seems integar scaling works now in new nvidia drivers, just not on my 1080 TI :( oh well...... good to know its possible..... will get it going on next GPU purchase..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top