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360,ps3= pc equivalent

I never said you can't take better advantage of hardware. I said that the RSX won't ever be faster than the 79xx series :rolleyes:



You have got to be kidding me.

I think youre trying to kid all of us. Seems the only ones you cant kid are Ramon and I. Seems like almost everyone else has a nice large spoon, ready to eat up your bullshit.
 
I know I said I'm done with this thread, but this is merely an observation I'd like to point out in regards to GT5 and the PS3. When I played GT5 at my friends house not long ago, the PS3 fan got a lot louder than it has ever been before on any other game. While certainly not proof that the Cell is doing any rendering, it's conclusive enough for me that GT5 is doing something that none of the other games we've played have done.

So wait... when MGS 4 comes out we're going to have exploding PS3's?

Hideo Kojima says:
I remember saying three years ago that we wanted to create something revolutionary, but in reality we couldn't really do that because of the CPU. We're using the Cell engine to its limit., actually. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the PS3 machine, it's just that we weren't really aware of what the full-spec PS3 offered - we were creating something we couldn't entirely see.
 
Going back to the original post, and the original question.

You cannot simply match up the performance numbers between the consoles and a PC and expect equal performance. Why?

Well, as it was brought up before, one of the main reasons is the OS.

When a PS3 or X360 boot up, it's probably something like this:
Load BIOS
Load Memory Manager
Load Video Driver
Load Sound Driver
Load Input Drivers
Load Network Driver
Load GUI

Done.

Now, let's look at the PC:
1st hit "CTRL-SHIFT-ESC". See all that? That's loaded into your memory and is taking up RAM and CPU cycles.

Now hit "WINDOWS KEY + Pause/Break", select "Hardware" tab, click on Device Manager, and expand all those trees and there's all your drivers currently loaded into system memory.

Quite the difference, don't you think?

If someone could create an OS that was specifically for playing games, and only loaded the bare minimum hardware and software drivers required to play games, then you could probably do a number to number comparison.

But, sadly, that will probably never happen.

For another example of PC vs Console requirements, let's go back to 2005 and look at GTA San Andreas. The PC version was basically a direct port of the Xbox version. Here's the Recomended System Spec's:

Intel Pentuim 4 or AMD XP Processor (or better)
384MB RAM
16x Speed DVD Drive
4.7GB Hard Drive Space
128MB Video Card
DirectX 9 compatible sound & video drivers
Keyboard, mouse or game pad

In 2005, there were mid-range hardware out that could toast those requirements, and only cost you $300-$500 to build.

So, it's kinda like that.

Just wait until they release the Recommended system specs for GTA IV, which again will probably be a straight port of the X360 version. You will probably laugh.

It will probably be something like:

2GHz Dual Core Processor (or better)
1024MB RAM
16x Speed DVD Drive
12GB Hard Drive Space
256MB Video Card
DirectX 10 compatible sound & video drivers
Keyboard, mouse or game pad

Which means a budget PC with an e2200 ($80), 1GB RAM ($30) , and a 9600GT ($140) or 3850 ($125)* will exceed all the requirements to play at higher than X360/PS3 Resolution and get better than the 30FPS the consoles can pump the game at.

*Totals: w/9600GT = $250 / w/3850 = $235.
 
Well if your going to include prices in your comparison you should probably include a very small case (PS3 is pretty small, with a very small footprint), a wireless network adapter, a bluetooth adapter, and a BluRay compatible dvd drive.

I mean...your were obviously looking to get technical and everything...and for the moment im going to disregard your assumptions about the requirements of GTA4:...its not a completely different game or anything, and only loads the entire world at once...that doesnt take alot of processing power...right?
 
I mean...your were obviously looking to get technical and everything...and for the moment im going to disregard your assumptions about the requirements of GTA4:...its not a completely different game or anything, and only loads the entire world at once...that doesnt take alot of processing power...right?

San Andreas loaded an even larger world at once, (Minus the Indoor Eviroments.) Look at its Specs.
 
the pc is the king when it comes to best graphics better processor and physics. consoles have better games and more exclusive titles. in performance PC wins.
 
Well if your going to include prices in your comparison you should probably include a very small case (PS3 is pretty small, with a very small footprint), a wireless network adapter, a bluetooth adapter, and a BluRay compatible dvd drive.

That's the old Mac Mini or iMac debate. Person 1: "It's expensive for what you get!" Person 2: "Oh yeah, what about the custom stylish (SFF if Mac Mini) nearly silent enclosure, iLife, etc...?" The problem with that is that assumes that one wants all the extras. In the case of the PS3, if a wireless network card, bluetooth adapter, Blu-ray drive, and SFF case isn't desired by a person, then their prices are irrelevant.

I mean...your were obviously looking to get technical and everything...and for the moment im going to disregard your assumptions about the requirements of GTA4:...its not a completely different game or anything, and only loads the entire world at once...that doesnt take alot of processing power...right?

Not really. That's more hard drive and memory speed (and memory space).
 
Who needs a gaming PC when you can dual-boot a PS3 with Linux? Now granted, you can't run any PC games on your PS3, but you'll have a powerful machine that can do any web browsing/office/messaging tasks you need to do with the ability to play quality games for a long time.

I suddenly feel like an idiot for buying myself a 360.



Now back on topic, today's PCs have more processing power than either the 360 or the PS3, and it's starting to show. The difference is optimization. Games for the 360 only have to run on one uniform hardware spec: the xbox360. Ditto for the PS3. PC games have to be designed to run on a whole ton of conceivable setups. Developers have to sacrifice visuals and sometimes physics details to maximize compatibility. When they don't, you end up with Crysis.
 
Well if your going to include prices in your comparison you should probably include a very small case (PS3 is pretty small, with a very small footprint), a wireless network adapter, a bluetooth adapter, and a BluRay compatible dvd drive.

I mean...your were obviously looking to get technical and everything...and for the moment im going to disregard your assumptions about the requirements of GTA4:...its not a completely different game or anything, and only loads the entire world at once...that doesnt take alot of processing power...right?

I just snagged a very good Class 1 USB Bluetooth adapter (a Cirago BTA-3210) for $20 off NewEgg and there are cheaper adapters than that- the Bluetooth adapter isn't going to add much to your PC's cost and you can do plenty more with it on your PC (like, oh, I dunno, hooking-up a Wiimote or a Sixaxis or just about anything else and actually getting that to work in games). Sure, the PS3 right now is my leading choice for a Blu-Ray player- if I ever feel like getting one. Then again, by the time I actually get around to getting one, I may instead just upgrade my PC with a Blu-Ray drive instead.

As for GTA IV "loading the whole world at once", it streams the world. This isn't new tech and the PS3, 360, and PC can all do it ("low-end" PC's as well, mind you). The whole world isn't loaded at once as the PS3 doesn't by a long shot have enough RAM for that- it's just constantly loading the area just beyond your LoS.


As far as Crysis goes... for all the complaints, I've never played an FPS that feels so smooth and is so playable at 25fps. Nevertheless, Crysis was designed as a forward-looking title. Imo, the idea that the latest gpu should be able to play the latest games at the highest settings at the highest resolutions is a little bland to me- I like for games to have future scaling as Crysis does so that when I inevitably upgrade my computer I get a better experience- without any toll having been taken on my previous experience. Crysis, like most PC games, will sell well over time, but I feel that Crysis will sell even better over a longer period of time for it will still hold appeal long after its release because the 360 and PS3 can't touch it (they don't have the power to support shadow mapping which is going to replace light mapping in true PC games- in fact, Crytek is already complaining about just trying to get their complex AI to work with the consoles- and yet compare Crysis's system requirements to Assassin's Creed's or Mass Effect's on the cpu end and you'll realize that Crysis is optimized far better than it's given credit for being).

As for Linux on the PS3- my understanding is that the Linux offerings are limited, but besides from that, not only do you lose-out on PC games (bye-bye RTS's!) but also on the mods and the general moddability/openness of the PC platform. As I mentioned above, I literally am moving my mouse around with my Wiimote right now, and I can slap my Wiimote into my Perfect Shot, hook-in my Nunchuck, and play Half-Life 2 whenever I want to- good luck doing that with your PS3. In fact, while the PS3 does support the mouse and keyboard set-up, the dirty little secret is that many of its GAMES do not. The most recent example of that would be Haze.
 
crysis is the only pc game i can think of that needs a NASA supercomputer to run it.
 
Sources please.
You could've just googled it yourself, but okie, whatever, I'll humor you.

1.) Link to XDR being shared between the GPU&CPU:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_hardware
(Yes, I know it's a wikipedia link, but it should be good enough. If you really want something besides Wikipedia, let me know and I'll take the time to look it up).

The Graphics Processing Unit according to Nvidia is based on the NVIDIA G70 (previously known as NV47) architecture. The GPU makes use of 256 MB GDDR3 RAM clocked at 700 MHz with an effective transmission rate of 1.4 GHz and up to 224 MB (32 MB is reserved by the XrossMediaBar) of the 3.2 GHz XDR main memory via the CPU (480 MB max).


2.) Link to ray-tracing in GT Prologue:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/813/813424p3.html

Visuals
Just as past games in the series have pushed the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 to their limits, Gran Turismo 5 should be a system showpiece for the PlayStation 3. The pre-race screen shows your car being worked on by your pit crew in a garage, and these scenes will feature full HDR, ray-traced lighting. These scenes are stunning and easily rival anything pre-rendered footage could throw at the screen.

While the in-race lighting won't be quite as nice, expect this to be the best looking racing game you've ever seen. The studio promises 1080p support at a full 60fps, though it says that feat isn't easy. But if anyone can do it, it's Polyphony Digital.
 
Who needs a gaming PC when you can dual-boot a PS3 with Linux? Now granted, you can't run any PC games on your PS3, but you'll have a powerful machine that can do any web browsing/office/messaging tasks you need to do with the ability to play quality games for a long time.

I suddenly feel like an idiot for buying myself a 360.



Now back on topic, today's PCs have more processing power than either the 360 or the PS3, and it's starting to show. The difference is optimization. Games for the 360 only have to run on one uniform hardware spec: the xbox360. Ditto for the PS3. PC games have to be designed to run on a whole ton of conceivable setups. Developers have to sacrifice visuals and sometimes physics details to maximize compatibility. When they don't, you end up with Crysis.
You could put Linux on the 360... *cough*;)
pirate-smiley-08.gif
 
You could've just googled it yourself, but okie, whatever, I'll humor you.

1.) Link to XDR being shared between the GPU&CPU:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_hardware
(Yes, I know it's a wikipedia link, but it should be good enough. If you really want something besides Wikipedia, let me know and I'll take the time to look it up).

The Graphics Processing Unit according to Nvidia is based on the NVIDIA G70 (previously known as NV47) architecture. The GPU makes use of 256 MB GDDR3 RAM clocked at 700 MHz with an effective transmission rate of 1.4 GHz and up to 224 MB (32 MB is reserved by the XrossMediaBar) of the 3.2 GHz XDR main memory via the CPU (480 MB max).

No, I know it has XDR and I knew how much. I meant source for the GPU being able to use XDR RAM without taking a significant performance hit. GPUs on the PC can use system RAM too, but its slow going over the bus and it causes stuttering - I would expect the same on a PS3.


2.) Link to ray-tracing in GT Prologue:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/813/813424p3.html

Visuals
Just as past games in the series have pushed the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 to their limits, Gran Turismo 5 should be a system showpiece for the PlayStation 3. The pre-race screen shows your car being worked on by your pit crew in a garage, and these scenes will feature full HDR, ray-traced lighting. These scenes are stunning and easily rival anything pre-rendered footage could throw at the screen.

While the in-race lighting won't be quite as nice, expect this to be the best looking racing game you've ever seen. The studio promises 1080p support at a full 60fps, though it says that feat isn't easy. But if anyone can do it, it's Polyphony Digital.

That doesn't say that the Cell is going to be doing the ray-traced lighting. There are a couple of ray-tracing engines (not just lighting) that can run on a video card already. Then again, its not really all that impressive since the ray-traced lighting is only in the menu and pit-crews and not during the game itself. Whoop-de-fucking-do. Also, GT5 isn't 1080p during the race - it is upscaled 1280x1080 (which is about 67% of the pixels) according to http://www.n4g.com/ps3/News-76181.aspx
 
No, I know it has XDR and I knew how much. I meant source for the GPU being able to use XDR RAM without taking a significant performance hit. GPUs on the PC can use system RAM too, but its slow going over the bus and it causes stuttering - I would expect the same on a PS3.




That doesn't say that the Cell is going to be doing the ray-traced lighting. There are a couple of ray-tracing engines (not just lighting) that can run on a video card already. Then again, its not really all that impressive since the ray-traced lighting is only in the menu and pit-crews and not during the game itself. Whoop-de-fucking-do. Also, GT5 isn't 1080p during the race - it is upscaled 1280x1080 (which is about 67% of the pixels) according to http://www.n4g.com/ps3/News-76181.aspx

The RSX uses its FlexIO to communicate with the XDR ram, it's kind of like a TurboCache thing, and that's probably as good as shared memory is going to get. I'm not sure if current GPUs could use the system memory as a framebuffer, but I know the PS3 can use it as a framebuffer.

http://www.edepot.com/playstation3.html

This is why extra texture lookup instructions were included in the RSX to allow loading data from XDR memory (as opposed to the local GDDR3 memory).

RSX - Reality Synthesizer
The RSX is a graphical processor unit (GPU) based off of the nVidia 7800GTX graphics processor, and is a G70/G71 hybrid with some modifications. The RSX has separate vertex and pixel shader pipelines. The following are relevant facts about the RSX...
8 vertex shaders at 500Mhz
28 pixel shaders (4 redundant, 24 active) at 550Mhz
28 texture units (4 redundant, 24 active)
8 Raster Operations Pipeline units (ROPs)
Includes 256MB GDDR3 650Mhz clocked graphics memory
Earlier PS3 Models: Samsung K4J52324QC-SC14 rated at 700Mhz
Later PS3 Models: Qimonda HYB18H512322AF-14
GDDR3 Memory interface bus width: 128bit
Rambus XDR Memory interface bus width: 56bit out of 64bit (serial)
258mm2 die size
90nm technology


Okay, that's GT5 Prologue DEMO (which came out a loooooong time ago) that runs in 1280x1080. The actual (retail) game runs at1080p.

So you're telling me a "cripped" 128-bit G71 with 8 missing ROPS is rendering that scene along with doing the ray-tracing too? Wow, my 7800GTX must have some kind of mysterious power that's just waiting to be unleashed.
 
I read this thread up to page 4 or 5 I think... Arguments and arguments, we all get it people with bigger e-penises will yell louder!

And who ever has both PC and a Console knows that the MAJOR point is not in a raw horse power (PC) but in GAME PLAY (consoles)

Games like Resident Evil even on freeking PS1 which is done in software, game play is unforgettable, same goes with Metal Gear (bah i cant wait for MG4) - art of games. Just look at Wii... that little thing is fun as hell to play.

There are games that will never be on PC and if they will be (RE4 bad port, ugly and unplayable) they will not have the same playability factor, it's all about how much fun you get from games not fuckin HORSE power... Who cares about Crysis? If the game got dip shit story... Look at the MG4... in terms of # of sales this game will cream Crysis 2x times.

Best developers are on consoles not on PCs...

Don't get me wrong i'm a PC gamer by far the most... bf2142 four hours a day :D But consoles imo bring the most fun out of the games.

I have my favorites but 75% of them are console games... Resident Evil, Metal Gear, Armored Core, Metroid Prime. As for PC it would be Deus Ex, C&C, Mech Warrior. BF2142 and maybe BF2.
 
This has been the most entertaining (useless) thread I have ever seen hehe.

This entire thread is nothing more then fanboys and girls fighting over the size of there e-..... well I won't go there HAHA. If you want a fucking console BUY A CONSOLE if you want a PC BUY A PC ROFLMAO!!! If you can't decide figure out how much you want to spend if you only want to spend 500 bucks then maybe a console is right for you. If you want to spend a little more and want something that can do more then play games/dvd's get a PC. I will tell you this its MUCH more fun building a PC then it is to just go buy a console (no challenge in that at all HAHA)

I'll fix all your problems right here BUY BOTH :p JK hehe
 
Now Terran the prior fanboy statements were not directed at you however I did want to say a few things about your post. First off not everyone is interested in RTS games, so I don't think the people who only have a PS3 as a primary gaming platform would care. Second off the think the wiimote is a gimmick. I personally don't know why you would want to use it for any FPS game so to each and his own. It seems some people here can't fathom someone having both a PS3/360 and gaming PC.

Personally I use the Wiimote/Nunchuck/other Wii-related peripherals as my PC gamepad(s). In terms of the Wiimote being a gimmick, Metroid Prime 3 and Resident Evil 4 Wii convinced me otherwise, and in terms of using the Wiimote in PC games like Half-Life 2 it's actually pretty interesting. I was really surprised with just how well the Wiimote worked in Half-Life 2- I definitely feel that even in terms of aiming precision it provided a set-up that outclassed a basic keyboard/mouse configuration and with the Perfect Shot in hand (and Nunchuck in the other, Crowbar at ready ;)) it was far more immersive (which is why the Wii gets away with inferior graphics- graphics are a way of immersing a player in the game's world, and the Wiimote, when properly utilized, can do a far better job of that than many other peripherals in a wide range of games). However, my G9 allows me to perform a little better, but like I said, the Wiimote basically falls somewhere between a basic k/m set-up and the G9 in HL2 (just got this set-up a week ago so I haven't had a great deal of time to test it in much else other than TrackMania and such).

My point though really was about more than just the Wiimote- it was that the PC is the most versatile when it comes to accepting different types of input, with the Wiimote just being one example of that (joysticks, racing wheels, etc... have been common secondary peripherals on the PC for decades).

Game-wise, I definitely agree with sports games- that is my one great displeasure with my current set-up but NHL '08 (amazingly for once I'm actually looking at the EA NHL game instead of the 2K NHL game.. that hasn't happened since I got a Dreamcast) isn't worth $340 ($380 for a 360 and then $60 for the game itself) and unfortunately EA Sports and 2K Sports have done pretty poor jobs with Wii sports games which imo is pretty sad. However, I do have some reason to think that if Battlefield: Heroes proves itself that EA Sports might adopt a similar distribution model for its PC sports games and thereby have a reason to bring them up to par with their 360/PS3 brethren- in theory, adopting such an ad-based model should be even easier for EA's sports titles than even for a game like Battlefield: Heroes.

Beyond the above, I generally am finding that most of the big console games that come out that I'm interested in (IE- not Halo 3, though that will hit the PC eventually :mad:), from Bioshock to Gears of War to Guitar Hero 3 to Stranglehold (particularly when you can find the latter for only $12- that's a game I'll be interested in getting the Wiimote working with, as will be Jedi Academy), usually hit the PC- if not initially then at some point (like GoW, Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, Burnout: Paradise, etc...) and I generally tend to enjoy them more on my PC because my upgrade path has typically kept my PC ahead of the consoles in terms of what it can do when it needs to be (remember when everyone was complaining initially about the 360's rather lacking library? I upgraded my PC a little before Gears of War came out, just in time for the big rush of holiday titles on the PC that year) and because of the greater freedom I have with my choice of controls (people claim that Gears of War is better with the 360 gamepad- I beg to differ). Granted, sticking with one platform means missing the occasional gem as MGS 4 may prove to be, but when it comes to the 360/PS3 I always come back to that I'd be paying $300+ each just to play a few games- each of which cost $60 instead of $50 (or $40 like SoaSE or $0 like Battlefield: Heroes but we'll see how that goes)- which is distressing considering that I have plenty of awesome games to play already and already lack the time to properly devote to all of them (and, hell, like I said, I also have a Wii, which really does an excellent job of providing a very different set of high caliber games than my PC does or a 360 or PS3 would- Zelda: Twilight Princess, Resident Evil 4 Wii- sure, you can get RE4 on just about any console these days 'cept the 40GB PS3's w/out backward compat, but I've played RE4 on other consoles and feel that the Wii controls really do make a significant, immersive difference and really add to the game- Metroid Prime 3, Mario Galaxy, and Smash Bros Brawl).

PS- I may have hinted at this before but maybe I didn't state it overtly: I originally intended to have both a gaming PC and Xbox 360, but my second generation 360 blew-up five months after I bought it (this was before they started extending warranties) and MS still refuses to do anything about it, but since then I haven't been able to find much of a reason to try the 360 again or go for the PS3 as my 360 blowing-up caused me to take another look at the Wii (then the Revolution) and to upgrade my PC, the combination of which absolved any desire I had for a 360 or PS3.
 
Rambus XDR Memory interface bus width: 56bit out of 64bit (serial)

That is a pretty small bus there - bandwidth can't be all that great, which would be a major bottleneck...

Okay, that's GT5 Prologue DEMO (which came out a loooooong time ago) that runs in 1280x1080. The actual (retail) game runs at1080p.

We'll see. Kind of like how Halo 3 was supposed to run at 720p. ;)

So you're telling me a "cripped" 128-bit G71 with 8 missing ROPS is rendering that scene along with doing the ray-tracing too? Wow, my 7800GTX must have some kind of mysterious power that's just waiting to be unleashed.

You wouldn't need a ton of memory bandwidth or ROPs to generate a lightmap in a shader program, especially since we are talking about a very small scene here with minimal to no movement with a small number of models. A scenario like that a decent programmer could optimize the crap out of.
 

Really..

Remember, this thread is about 360/PS3 = PC equivalent in hardware to get the same performance and visuals.

I suppose I can run my games at 720p or less on my 2405 and let the monitor upscale it to native. In which case a 3870/9600gt and a sub 3ghz Intel dual core absolutely smashes either console in performance at that res and equivalent graphical settings. But no sense in doing that since; a) I hate the 2405 for gaming, and b) both cards are capable of a higher res in most games.
 
Really..

Remember, this thread is about 360/PS3 = PC equivalent in hardware to get the same performance and visuals.

I suppose I can run my games at 720p or less on my 2405 and let the monitor upscale it to native. In which case a 3870/9600gt and a sub 3ghz Intel dual core absolutely smashes either console in performance at that res and equivalent graphical settings. But no sense in doing that since; a) I hate the 2405 for gaming, and b) both cards are capable of a higher res in most games.

I would expect the PS3 to be a better upscaler, much more so than a monitor.
 
I would expect the PS3 to be a better upscaler, much more so than a monitor.

You can also tell the drivers to do it and then it isn't done by the monitor. I personally prefer letting the monitor handle it as then I get notified if its not running native - helpful for making sure games apply settings and such correctly :)
 
I would expect the PS3 to be a better upscaler, much more so than a monitor.


I would too, at least for older or lower end monitors. The newer, larger, higher end tv/monitors upscale a lot better than they used to.
The point of that post was that true1080p source generally looks better than 720p or less source upscaled. Even with the pretty good upscaling done by the PS3.
We are supposedly trying to figure out what you need pc wise to = the PS3/360 for graphics and performance.
So, since it can also be done quite well by some monitors and most vid cards,(if you care to fudge around the drivers' control panel to set it up and use it), as TerranUp16 said, "upscaling doesn't count".
 
We are supposedly trying to figure out what you need pc wise to = the PS3/360 for graphics and performance.

That question has more or less be answered several pages ago. A 7950GT is mostly equal (better in a few areas) to the RSX (which is a G71). So anything 7950GT or better. However, the PS3 fanboys and kool aid drinkers will try and say that the Cell CPU somehow makes the GPU better, so lets say a 3850/9600GT will safely be better than anything a PS3 can dish out :)
 
That question has more or less be answered several pages ago. A 7950GT is mostly equal (better in a few areas) to the RSX (which is a G71). So anything 7950GT or better. However, the PS3 fanboys and kool aid drinkers will try and say that the Cell CPU somehow makes the GPU better, so lets say a 3850/9600GT will safely be better than anything a PS3 can dish out :)


I'll agree with the 3850/9600GT part.
 
That is a pretty small bus there - bandwidth can't be all that great, which would be a major bottleneck...



We'll see. Kind of like how Halo 3 was supposed to run at 720p. ;)



You wouldn't need a ton of memory bandwidth or ROPs to generate a lightmap in a shader program, especially since we are talking about a very small scene here with minimal to no movement with a small number of models. A scenario like that a decent programmer could optimize the crap out of.
I read somewhere that XDR doesn't exactly need a huge bus bandwidth because if its speed, but who knows, I'm not an expert on these things. Besides, it's only a little less than half the bandwidth of the GDDR3, I'm sure the speed of the XDR ram would somewhat compensate for it.

GT5 Prologue is already out in retail, and it has been for over a month now. It runs at 1080p. Nothing has proven otherwise.
 
GT5 Prologue is already out in retail, and it has been for over a month now. It runs at 1080p. Nothing has proven otherwise.

Nothing has proven it is 1080p, either. The IGN article you linked to only said the studio promised 1080p support - they could support 1080p via upscaling ;)
 
Could you back up your claim? I'd like to see a link where it specifically claims Gran Turismo 5 RETAIL runs "upscaled" resolutions.

Imo, 360/PS3 games run at 720p upscaled to 1080p at best until proven otherwise. So the burden of proof falls on the person claiming native 1080p support. Furthermore, if it does support 1080p, you might want to take a closer look at GT 5 ;) (already disappointed with console-based racers- booted-up the GRID demo and was saddened to note that TrackMania Nations Forever definitely had the graphical edge- at least GRID ran better, but that was to be expected; and the PC version of GRID has some additional graphical tweaks/upgrades compared to the console versions too...).
 
Imo, 360/PS3 games run at 720p upscaled to 1080p at best until proven otherwise. So the burden of proof falls on the person claiming native 1080p support. Furthermore, if it does support 1080p, you might want to take a closer look at GT 5 ;) (already disappointed with console-based racers- booted-up the GRID demo and was saddened to note that TrackMania Nations Forever definitely had the graphical edge- at least GRID ran better, but that was to be expected; and the PC version of GRID has some additional graphical tweaks/upgrades compared to the console versions too...).

Not quite. "You can't prove me wrong there for I am right" mentality doens't make you right. We've already seen articles mention of it running in 1080p. You are claiming upscaling, so the burden of proof is on you.
 
Not quite. "You can't prove me wrong there for I am right" mentality doens't make you right. We've already seen articles mention of it running in 1080p. You are claiming upscaling, so the burden of proof is on you.

No, we've seen articles saying it runs at 1280x1080 - I haven't seen anything saying the game runs at 1920x1080p.
 
Not quite. "You can't prove me wrong there for I am right" mentality doens't make you right. We've already seen articles mention of it running in 1080p. You are claiming upscaling, so the burden of proof is on you.


I don't remember having seen any links to any of those articles in this thread... just articles that said it would support 1080p (whatever that means- as far as MS and Sony are concerned, "support for 1080p" and "upscaling to 1080p" are two ways of saying the same thing ;)). But, as kllrnohj has pointed-out, the only article linked to in this thread that has anything of substance on what GT5 Prologue currently, actually, natively runs at indicates it runs at 1280x1080 and upscales to 1920x1080 (but, I suppose that IS 1080p from a certain point of view since it IS 1080 pixels of vertical resolution- but damn, that's gotta be some bad horizontal stretching).
 
I don't remember having seen any links to any of those articles in this thread... just articles that said it would support 1080p (whatever that means- as far as MS and Sony are concerned, "support for 1080p" and "upscaling to 1080p" are two ways of saying the same thing ;)). But, as kllrnohj has pointed-out, the only article linked to in this thread that has anything of substance on what GT5 Prologue currently, actually, natively runs at indicates it runs at 1280x1080 and upscales to 1920x1080 (but, I suppose that IS 1080p from a certain point of view since it IS 1080 pixels of vertical resolution- but damn, that's gotta be some bad horizontal stretching).

Upscaling sucks...and is pure marketing BS:
http://www.playthree.net/2007/04/halo-3-to-support-true-not-upscaled.html
 
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