2P and 4P system guide

K

Kendrak

[H]ard|DCer of the Year 2009
Joined
Aug 29, 2001
Messages
21,141
I was sent a PM just now:

Ozymandias said:
Kendrak,
I'm sure you're busy, but there's a severe lack of guides on 2P/4P folding. Here's a bunch of things you could put in it, or questions I've had while drooling over 2P/4P boxen in the DC forum:
-Which CPUs and mobos to look out for, and where to acquire them
-Which RAM is best (low CL, right? But how much RAM is needed for F@H bigadv?)
-Tips and tricks to get heatsinks working on G34/LGA1366 sockets
-Best cases or test benches
-Other stuff :confused:

There might not be much point in writing it now with the bigadv change coming up, but it's something to keep in mind (or get someone else to write :p). There might be other people out there that are interested in "big league" folding but are afraid of the learning curve on these things.

Hope you're having a good weekend!
-ozymandias
Click to expand...

I think this is a wonderful idea. There will be an increased interest in folding on these type of systems with -bigadv going to higher end system. Now I have a few of the systems, but there are number of people with more information than me. So [H]orde, help me put this together!
 
General info:

CPUs
Talk about MC vs IL: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1652213

RAM:
Amount of RAM: Unless you are doing other things on the system, 1GB sticks are all you need with a 2P/4P system. Anything over 6GB will do for MP systems, but that does go up with the # of cores/threads. Luck us the number of RAM slots also goes up as you add CPUs ;)

Cases and the like:
My favorite options if your going to use more than a cardboard box, http://www.highspeedpc.com/ A note, you don't have to get the HPX one per say. If you get the Top Deck Tech Station, it will fit most 2P systems (not SR-2)
A wonderful guide to some current case options: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1038043234&postcount=5
Another options for a SR-2 and 4P system: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1038146090&postcount=18

Efficiency:
PPD/Watt thread

HFS Options:
G34 HSF mod: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1038043000&postcount=4

Tools:
Tools that come in quite handy: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1038043292&postcount=6
 
Last edited:
G34 Heatsinks:

Coolermaster Hyper 212+:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065

Grab the black retention rings on the heatsink bracket mounting posts with some needle nose pliers and yank them off to allow the captured spring/screw assembly to come apart. This leaves you with just the pivoting X bracket that, we will now modify this to allow use with G34. It is also worth noting that the modifications we perform here do not prevent the mounting hardware from being used with the normal desktop sockets in the future.

The guide key on the base of the Hyper 212+ will interfere with the your modified bracket lying flat against the heatsink. You can solve this by either cutting off the guide key on the heatsink base or using your dremel to remove about 4mm from the side of the bottom arm.

Image courtesy of firedfly
212g34modlarge.jpg


Optional: take the two pieces of the retention bracket apart and grind off the guide nubs on top of the bottom arm so they lie flat against each other. In the image below, you want to grind down the nubs highlighted in red and cut off the part highlighted in blue.

Image courtesy of firedfly
hD5nk.jpg


For screws use some #6-32 machine screws (radiator fan bolts) and cut to length. A dremel is the preferred method here (and every folder should own one) but wire cutters will work in a pinch.

When applying thermal paste to a G34 chip, use the grain of rice approach but make the bead of paste about 1 inch long running parallel to the long side of the chip. This will ensure both dies have TIM coverage and allow even spreading along the grooved bottom of the 212+. In the picture below you can see the paste just comes past the heatsink base when compressed, this means you have as much contact as possible.

Image from my build Double D
6X12n.jpg


1366 Heatsinks:
Xigmatek Loki (92mm): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233081
Xigmatek Gaia (120mm): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233082
Coolermaster Hyper 212+ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065

Multiprocessor 1366 boards come with threaded heatsink backplates pre-installed, these accept common M3 threaded machine screws. For the Hyper 212+, do the retaining washer removal as described for G34 and install new screws for retention (they are available at common hardware stores). For the Xigametek options you need to either buy new screws or take the included screws that are intended to feed through the back and grind a flat screwdriver head into them with a dremel. These will seem too long, but threading the stock retention nuts on before installation will take up the extra screw height.

Image from my build ht2Pc
img2564medium.jpg


C32 Heatsinks:

Stock Thuban or Bulldozer heatsinks
Xigmatek Dark Knight: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233029
C32 motherboards come with adapters that allow you to use any AM3 heatsink that is held on with the stock 2 clip configuration.

Image courtesy of Tobit
a0xmk6.jpg



Fit Warning:
You will need to choose your heatsink options carefully based on how close the processor sockets are to one another as well as memory proximity. The newer designed Supermicro 4p G34 boards in particular will NOT work with the above options.

For example, this board has room for the 212+ mounting.
H8QGi_-F_spec.jpg


This one does not due to the close proximity of the 2nd and 3rd socket.
H8QGL-iF__spec.jpg




Additionally, if you end up with a 4U server case, you will not be able to fit 120mm tower heatsinks. See this link for a potential workaround. http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1639667

If you choose the right parts for your application however, using these modified desktop heatsinks are not only your cheapest option but offer significantly better thermal and noise characteristics.

A huge thanks to Firedfly for pointing out errors, providing additional information, and taking pictures!
 
Last edited:
Cases

Cases for multiprocessor systems can be a bit difficult to categorize due to the many different form factors. Here are just a few good choices.

Norco RPC-470: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219020&Tpk=RPC-470

This case runs about $90 and can take EEB, CEB, ATX, ATX-E, and will also accept MEB if you relocate the powersupply to the front. Hyper 212+ heatsinks will not fit in here without modifying the lid of the case.

Suggested Mods:
-Use wire cutters to remove the restrictive stamped mesh behind the rear and mid fan mounts
-Remove the folddown front door, disassemble and remove the dust mesh. With front 120mm fans mounted the suction will hold the foam to the front of the case.
-Take out the stock fans and throw them on the ground, seriously, they will die within two months.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1639667

Images from my build Double D
9Ap9C.jpg

AZEET.jpg


Image courtesy of DSee
wF1u1.jpg


CoolerMaster HAF-932 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160

I apologize for the eye pain you must be experiencing after clicking that link, I personally think this case is indefensibly ugly. It is however, an excellent bargain for anything up to a 4p board. You will need to drill and tap some new mounting points for some of the layouts, but this is typically pretty straight forward.

Images courtesy of DSee
haf6.jpg

2holesmedium.jpg


Xigmatek Elysium http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811815011

This is your best bet if you want an enormous case with room for accessories and internal watercooling capability. Note that the same OEM that produces the Elysium also makes the Rosewill Blackhawk and Aerocool Strike-X ST, these have the same interior spacing but different aestetics, different hard drive rails, and less space for watercooling.

Blackhawk: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147157
Strike-X ST: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14344/cst-1238/AeroCool_Strike-X_ST_Gaming_Full-Tower_Chassis.html

Image from my current SR-2 build
txe0B.jpg


Image courtesy of Patriot
o6VZZ.jpg



As I mentioned, there are many other suitable cases out there and if you happen to get an ATX 2P board your options are practically endless. These 3 however represent some of the best value in multiprocessor enclosures currently available.
 
Last edited:
Tools

Every serious folder needs 3 tools that you will use over and over.

Rotary Tool http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MUSLCC/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details

This Black and Decker unit costs less than $30, is compatible with all Dremel accessories, and is damn powerful.

I don't recommend buying the full accessory kits as I only really go through cutoff wheels, buy the packs individually here. The heavy duty wheels are much better with steel but because they are wider take longer to cut, if you are trimming alluminum or plastic use the regular wheels.
http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-409-Cu...f=sr_1_24?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1321765094&sr=1-24
http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-420-Heavy-Cut-Off-Wheels/dp/B00004UDH3/ref=pd_cp_hi_2

Also, I would be remiss if I didn't remind you that YOU NEED TO WEAR SAFETY GLASSES when operating a rotary tool. There is a good pair here: http://www.amazon.com/SAS-Safety-53...f=sr_1_10?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1321767561&sr=1-10. In addition, always cut so that the plane of the cutting wheel is not lined up with you. When they break the pieces fly away radially along this plane.

IR Thermometer http://www.amazon.com/Kintrex-IRT04...ref=sr_1_3?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1321765250&sr=1-3

Your folding gear will be running 24/7 and it is very important to know how hot your ram, chipset, and VRM's are getting. This is particularly critical in naked folding applications where airflow over the system is much less focused.

Kill-A-Watt http://www.amazon.com/P3-Internatio...ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1321765381&sr=1-2

This simply allows you to measure the power draw of your folding rigs to calculate how much electricity will cost and make informed overclocking decisions based on ppd/w
 
Last edited:
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
kevinksu said:
nice thread guys, still waiting for the secret recipe of OC the MCs ;)
Click to expand...

I think that might end up staying on IRC.
It isn't easy and a number of thing could go wrong.

It is about as far away from OC-ing a 2600k as you can get.
 
Kendrak said:
I think that might end up staying on IRC.
It isn't easy and a number of thing could go wrong.

It is about as far away from OC-ing a 2600k as you can get.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, that tweak takes days and some very specialized knowledge. If you want in on the process, prove your commitment to team 33 and join us on IRC.;)
 
bump...this needs to get added to the main folding sticky....
 
I installed 2 hyper 212+ in my g34 rig today and did not need to cut the post or grind the bracket. Their was plenty of room. Cooler master maybe making the diameter a bit smaller now?
 
Last edited:
Kardonxt said:
I installed 2 hyper 212+ in my g34 rig today and did not need to cut the post or grind the bracket. Their was plenty of room. Cooler master maybe making the diameter a bit smaller now?
Click to expand...

This is good news.
 
Kardonxt said:
I installed 2 hyper 212+ in my g34 rig today and did not need to cut the post or grind the bracket. Their was plenty of room. Cooler master maybe making the diameter a bit smaller now?
Click to expand...

Are you sure the bracket is lying flat and not propped up on the key? If so, something has definitely changed...

Could you post pictures for those that may get the new design?
 
Looking at it again I may have over stated plenty of room lol, but it does just fit. All I have is a camera phone so sorry the quality sucks.

I cant get a picture of the back heatsink but that one had more room.

IMAG0514.jpg
 
Here are some pics of my 2P g34 in a Spotswood Bitcoin case. I love these things.

IMAG0481.jpg



IMAG0486.jpg
 
Just throwing out some ideas here for a cheap 4p system (and get 16 cores):

Spend $35 a CPU with this... Intel quad core, 1.86GHz, 50w TDP. Total = $140 on processors.

Supermicro has two Intel 7300 chipset boards available, the X7QC3 and X7QCE. You can find the latter one here for $800-900.

So for a little over a thousand dollars, you can get a mobo and 16 cores at 1.86GHz. Would meet the requirements for -bigadv if it requires 16 real cores. Not sure how well these tired old procs would handle it though. There are faster options available, but they quickly get more expensive. (2-2.5ghz = under $500, past that it goes near $1k).

FB-DIMMs would be required, but people seem to be blowing them out.

Anyways... just another thing someone might want to consider. Fold on!

 
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
colinstu said:
Just throwing out some ideas here for a cheap 4p system (and get 16 cores):

Spend $35 a CPU with this... Intel quad core, 1.86GHz, 50w TDP. Total = $140 on processors.

Supermicro has two Intel 7300 chipset boards available, the X7QC3 and X7QCE. You can find the latter one here for $800-900.

So for a little over a thousand dollars, you can get a mobo and 16 cores at 1.86GHz. Would meet the requirements for -bigadv if it requires 16 real cores. Not sure how well these tired old procs would handle it though. There are faster options available, but they quickly get more expensive. (2-2.5ghz = under $500, past that it goes near $1k).

FB-DIMMs would be required, but people seem to be blowing them out.

Anyways... just another thing someone might want to consider. Fold on!

Click to expand...

I dont want to be a party pooper but that is an extremely expensive option. If the board were $50-100 it would be a good deal, but you can get a socket F 4P with 16 cores @ 2.2ghz for around $200 for the cpus AND motherboard. For the price of this combo you could get a dual 1366 rig with 16 to 24 threads that would put out much more points. Those 1.86Ghz quad cores will not be fast enough for bigbeta, but should be ok for bigadv.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arima-AMD-Opteron-Quad-Core-Socket-F-3000-series-Server-/370569016068?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D370559653908%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D4925188138877358823

Depending on Ebay, you can find 1.8-3.0Ghz quad cores for $20-$50 per CPU. I do not believe that board is compatible with the hexacores.
 
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Untitledone said:
I dont want to be a party pooper but that is an extremely expensive option. If the board were $50-100 it would be a good deal, but you can get a socket F 4P with 16 cores @ 2.2ghz for around $200 for the cpus AND motherboard. For the price of this combo you could get a dual 1366 rig with 16 to 24 threads that would put out much more points. Those 1.86Ghz quad cores will not be fast enough for bigbeta, but should be ok for bigadv.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arima-AMD-O...=370559653908&ps=63&clkid=4925188138877358823

Depending on Ebay, you can find 1.8-3.0Ghz quad cores for $20-$50 per CPU.
Click to expand...

:eek:

I redact my suggestion.
 
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
4p SM boards have a clearance issue when paired with a 212+. The last ram slot will be blocked by the heatpipe.

P1000507.jpg


So, you have to angle the 212+s
P1000518.jpg
 
Last edited:
brycejones said:
what are good hsfs for the newer 4 boards?
Click to expand...

Dynatron A5s or A6s - I have A5s on mine. They work OK. They are loud, though. A6s may be better HSFs actully. Beyond that, i don't know/ Even the ThermalTake ones are too big for this board if I remember correctly.

Watercooling would work well also.
 
R-Type said:
Fit Warning:
You will need to choose your heatsink options carefully based on how close the processor sockets are to one another as well as memory proximity. The newer designed Supermicro 4p G34 boards in particular will NOT work with the above options.

For example, this board has room for the 212+ mounting.


This one does not due to the close proximity of the 2nd and 3rd socket.
Click to expand...
I think 212+s on boards like this should actually be possible. I measured and if you only use one of the 212+ mounting arms instead of the 2 together you can rotate the heatsink 65 degrees from the standard orientation. Here's my scale drawing on the H8QGL-IF+, I'm going to try it for my build anyway. One fan push and one pull but it should be much better than the tiny G34 coolers. Or is it worth it to get the H8QGi+-F with proper layout for $60 more? All I want to do is fold...
y1111l.jpg
 
Last edited:
If you want to be evil and spend a few more bucks the Noctua NH-U12DO A3 units work real nice.

2011-12-22_17-41-57_131.jpg
 
You need to cool down those fans on the bottom!





impressive, I like it
 
Hi, harcore crunchers :)

Here is a pic of my system :

Motherboard : H8QGL-6F
Cpus : four new opterons 6172 ( before i had four 6128 HE )
Watercooling pump : laing DDC 10 watts
Waterblocks : EK-SUPREME LTX AMD

 
Jeanjean said:
Hi, harcore crunchers :)

Here is a pic of my system :

Motherboard : H8QGL-6F
Cpus : four new opterons 6172 ( before i had four 6128 HE )
Watercooling pump : laing DDC 10 watts
Waterblocks : EK-SUPREME LTX AMD

Click to expand...

Very nice
 
chaandan said:
very nice "Jeanjean" !! what are your temps on full load?
Click to expand...

For a ambiant temperature of 20°C and with the three gentle typhoon's fans at full speed ( 1300 rpm ) , 6172 opterons's temperature don't go past 55°C for a total powerconsumption of 560 watts.

With my old four 6128 opterons , cpu's temperature did not go past 48°C but, of course, 6128 HE opteron consumes less power : about 420 watts.
 
Jeanjean,

Did your EK blocks come with the small extension blocks/tabs that effectively extend each water block for G34 mounting? That's new if so, and is good information to share. I had to make brackets for my system which uses the Acetal version of those blocks.


Jeanjean said:
Hi, harcore crunchers :)

Here is a pic of my system :

Motherboard : H8QGL-6F
Cpus : four new opterons 6172 ( before i had four 6128 HE )
Watercooling pump : laing DDC 10 watts
Waterblocks : EK-SUPREME LTX AMD

Click to expand...
 
sfield said:
Jeanjean,

Did your EK blocks come with the small extension blocks/tabs that effectively extend each water block for G34 mounting? That's new if so, and is good information to share. I had to make brackets for my system which uses the Acetal version of those blocks.
Click to expand...

No,

the small extension tabs are homemade with an aluminium bar and the screws were bought separately.

However, it was very easy to make.

The most difficult thing was to find the screws with the good length . :)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top