it is imho the best to never ever use this monitor in any desktop-eque enviroment. If its not playing games then it should be switched off and stay off until actual game is played (or . That way will increase lifespan of monitor and drastically increase lifespan of eyes.
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24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.
- Thread starter mathesar
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well you can push the vertical resolution further, but in practice for these high-end desktop crt's, the sharpness is limited by the beam spot size anyway so there's no point
Thank you flod!
If anyone is still interested in the GDM-5402 that's listed up on eBay as new, I found out its the same monitor as the Dell P1110.
So two things:
1) People seem very happy with the picture quality. I saw someone rotate the monitor 180 degrees and it tilts back perfectly to play games like Ikaruga. And of course the overbrightness here rears its ugly head which just needs an adjustment.
2) From what I gather, Dell seems to use really good components on the market for their high end displays. I've been pretty fond of the UltraSharp lineup, I've owned the U2311H, U2312HM, and U2412M which were exceptional, all of these used LG panels IIRC. The 30" was very nice when I saw it in person. Not only that but their warranty is unbeatable.
Anywho I bought the monitor last week and it should be arriving tomorrow. I'll be posting up pictures and impressions if anyone is interested.
Just got to get my hands on a DTP-94.
Yes I know its not a FW-900 or Artisan...
If anyone is still interested in the GDM-5402 that's listed up on eBay as new, I found out its the same monitor as the Dell P1110.
So two things:
1) People seem very happy with the picture quality. I saw someone rotate the monitor 180 degrees and it tilts back perfectly to play games like Ikaruga. And of course the overbrightness here rears its ugly head which just needs an adjustment.
2) From what I gather, Dell seems to use really good components on the market for their high end displays. I've been pretty fond of the UltraSharp lineup, I've owned the U2311H, U2312HM, and U2412M which were exceptional, all of these used LG panels IIRC. The 30" was very nice when I saw it in person. Not only that but their warranty is unbeatable.
Anywho I bought the monitor last week and it should be arriving tomorrow. I'll be posting up pictures and impressions if anyone is interested.
Just got to get my hands on a DTP-94.
Yes I know its not a FW-900 or Artisan...
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One other thing I was wondering about, is there any issue using a VGA to DVI-I adapter? It came with my video card and its what I'm using now. I did a quick googling and supposedly a male VGA to male DVI-I cable should be preferred over the use of an adapter. Seems strange, wouldn't the adapter work the same functionally? Or is there really image degradation?
I avoid WPB because I can set image in the same way in OSD which I did. Doing the same in WinDAS for some preset modes is quite useless as I would still use expert color mode and had to calibrate it the way I already did. G2 voltage is fine on my unit no need to tinker with it.
What I see here are social group dynamics that have nothing to do with what this monitor really needs (except rare case when G2 does really need tweaking). It is like in audiophiles circles, one bullshit following another and people will notice improvement when there can't be any and neglecting real issues such as that they have way too much treble to listen comfortably more than 5minutes without getting ear bleed. Same here, WinDAS WPB is supposed to give "drastic" improvement but gamut correction is not... well, I cannot take opinions of such people too serious.
I bought polarizer from: here
It might be better to look for polarizer without adhesive and use special UV hardened glue.
I first planned to get polarizer from here and if I cannot put the one I already bought properly I will swallow the price and buy this one + glue.
Thanks XoR for your view, I appreciate it. And I agree completely with your assessment on the BS claims audiophiles make.
I personally can't speak to your experience with the unit and your criticisms of it (I don't own a FW-900 yet and I'm not sure if you received my PM) or adjusting it using WinDAS or calibration.
As I told Unkle Vito and jbltecnicspro, I just need a monitor to last me at the minimum for 5 years but of course nobody can guarantee that. I would think with the tools Vito has at his disposal he might be able to predict the longevity of the tube, FBT, etc but only if I follow his instructions completely.
So calibrating the unit would be necessary for me in order to keep the tube healthy and anything else.
Frankly I am not sure what to make of the color accuracy, its certainly important to me but really as a CRT ages over time I would think maintaining the accuracy would be harder to achieve. Although I know users here would disagree as long as I keep up the mainatence and calibration every 6 months.
Anyway not sure where I am going with this but thanks for posting here XoR. I hope to go through your posts in this thread to understand more on your opinions on the FW-900.
I personally can't speak to your experience with the unit and your criticisms of it (I don't own a FW-900 yet and I'm not sure if you received my PM) or adjusting it using WinDAS or calibration.
As I told Unkle Vito and jbltecnicspro, I just need a monitor to last me at the minimum for 5 years but of course nobody can guarantee that. I would think with the tools Vito has at his disposal he might be able to predict the longevity of the tube, FBT, etc but only if I follow his instructions completely.
So calibrating the unit would be necessary for me in order to keep the tube healthy and anything else.
Frankly I am not sure what to make of the color accuracy, its certainly important to me but really as a CRT ages over time I would think maintaining the accuracy would be harder to achieve. Although I know users here would disagree as long as I keep up the mainatence and calibration every 6 months.
Anyway not sure where I am going with this but thanks for posting here XoR. I hope to go through your posts in this thread to understand more on your opinions on the FW-900.
spacediver
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This is one of the primary reasons I use WinDAS. I could easily just use the OSD + ArgyllCMS to get perfect color accuracy via a LUT.
spacediver
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Fantastic post. I understand the abstract of what you are describing, it makes sense theoretically. I'm still learning CRT technology but this helpful.
Thank you spacediver for all the knowledge you have shared with us!
EDIT: I wanted to note its interesting that you reduce the effort down quite a bit without the AG. Makes sense.
spacediver
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there's a (small) decent book that increased my understanding of some of these issues. The author may have been mistaken about one aspect of the involved physics, however. See this thread, and flod's post here.
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Wow that thread is something else. Just a quick skim of its contents, I mean how do you not come away with a greater appreciation for CRTs? I'm in awe at the amount of chemistry and physics go into it.
Incredible stuff, I'll have to bookmark it for another time.
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This may have been brought up in the past by Vito and others.
Can anyone recommend an APC UPS unit for one of these monitors? I'm not looking to spend a fortune on one, but apparently I need to keep the electrical currents regulated and avoid any power surges.
Just wondering what's out there in 2015 I could buy on Amazon.
Can anyone recommend an APC UPS unit for one of these monitors? I'm not looking to spend a fortune on one, but apparently I need to keep the electrical currents regulated and avoid any power surges.
Just wondering what's out there in 2015 I could buy on Amazon.
Thanks for the link. Would you recommend the first one? From what I've read you seem to be very happy with contrast improvement. Does it affect colors calibration? What kind of problems do you have with adhesive?
Oh and regarding audophilia please do not put me in this bag, this is kind of thing I never had respect of
Hey guys, got the GDM-5402 in...
Well, I hooked it up and there are two single horizontal lines that go across the entire screen. And then what looks like smudge marks (which aren't) that are obvious against a white background. How in the world did that happen? I carefully brought it upstairs, didn't drop it or anything.
Brand new.
What's odd is against an entire white background, the left and right sides show a strange blur on the white background itself. I can even see it in this quick reply message box after my cursor...so some kind of trail is following it?
I'm using 1600x1200 85hz.
Seems odd, monitor has a MFG date in 2000. I would post a picture but not sure how it would turn out. I'll try.
Well, I hooked it up and there are two single horizontal lines that go across the entire screen. And then what looks like smudge marks (which aren't) that are obvious against a white background. How in the world did that happen? I carefully brought it upstairs, didn't drop it or anything.
Brand new.
What's odd is against an entire white background, the left and right sides show a strange blur on the white background itself. I can even see it in this quick reply message box after my cursor...so some kind of trail is following it?
I'm using 1600x1200 85hz.
Seems odd, monitor has a MFG date in 2000. I would post a picture but not sure how it would turn out. I'll try.
spacediver
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The two single horizontal lines are the support wires for the aperture grille. All modern trinitrons have them
Not sure what you mean about the strange blur, and the cursor trail issue. Can you describe this more clearly?
Not sure what you mean about the strange blur, and the cursor trail issue. Can you describe this more clearly?
Imagine this box being the entire screen size. So from the left and right there is this blueish/grayish tint that gradually goes down by lines. Really noticeable with a white surface.
Put another way, imagine a low quality JPEG image that has blur around the pixels, its sorta like that.
BTW I did adjust the convergence a bit, I'm not sure how much of an impact that made. And my brightness is down to 25. I'm in a pitch black room.
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spacediver
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try fiddling with the video cable and seeing if there's any effect on these artifacts.
Nah nothing is changing, except turning magenta if I slightly pull it out.
I'm almost convinced this might have something to do with the resolution, maybe my GFX card can't render analog signals that well?
Like I said, I'm using the stock cable that came with this Trintron tube and plugged it into the VGA adapter that came with my GFX card (MSI GTX980ti Gaming 6G)
I'm almost convinced this might have something to do with the resolution, maybe my GFX card can't render analog signals that well?
Like I said, I'm using the stock cable that came with this Trintron tube and plugged it into the VGA adapter that came with my GFX card (MSI GTX980ti Gaming 6G)
Had the same issue with my previous Dell P1130 which is rebranded (AFAIK) Sony G520 and sadly could never get rid of it. Really annoying, mostly unnoticable in games, sometimes was less obvious after monitor restart. My friend has some other G520 rebrand, Eizo 931 if I rembemer correctly and this also affects his monitor. Just looks like some of G520s suffer from this issue. If you find any solution please let us know.
What sucks too is there is an arc on the bottom of the display itself, I wish there was a geometry tool in the OSD I could try to fix that, some sort of pincushion but nothing.
But dude yeah this GDM is exactly like the Dell P1110. I thought the P1130 was the same, maybe I'm wrong.
Did you ever try running different resolutions to see if it fixed the problem?
800x600 with scanlines though.
jbltecnicspro
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Your issue looks like good ole signal ringing. Somewhere in the signal path, the bandwidth is becoming limited and the signal is "bouncing". Can you remove the video cable and swap it for another one?
jbltecnicspro
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My F520 did this as well. There's a thread about it somewhere here but it's basically the same problem. Reseating the A board seems to have cleared this issue up for me. Try this and see if it improves your situation.
Edit: Here's the link http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1308443. The monitor in this thread is also a GDM-F520 but same issue. I also used Stabiliant 22 on the edges of the A-board that connects to the motherboard and the neck board connector to the A-board. Problem seems to have gone away - it's been months since I've seen it last. I believe it's a mechanical issue with the board connector itself and is probably a design flaw from Sony. Interestingly, my Artisan doesn't have the problem. If I had better tools, I'd probably be able to isolate the problem and know what was causing it for sure. Could be a grounding issue too. Thankfully, it seems to have disappeared.
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Hey what's up jb, nah I don't have another cable near me. I'll see if I can pick up one this weekend.
jbltecnicspro
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Try that first and see what happens. Though experience with this issue (my issue looked exactly as what you're experiencing) tells me that you'll probably have to re-seat the board. Not a huge deal and not very difficult to do either.
LAGRUNAUER
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The two single horizontal lines are the support wires for the aperture grille. All modern trinitrons have them
Not sure what you mean about the strange blur, and the cursor trail issue. Can you describe this more clearly?
Trinitron damper wires. Hold together the aperture grille grooves...
UV!
LAGRUNAUER
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I am so sorry to tell you that the monitor that you got is not a brand new unit. It is most likely a B stock (all B stock units come in a brown box with no graphics and just the model on the unit in it) and all B stock units are refurbished units, and not new unit.
I used to be a value added reseller (VAR) in the 80's and 90's and we used to sell A and B stock units, so I know how the boxes look like... The brand new units will have nice graphics in the box, usually the photo of the monitor, but the B stock are just brown boxes with the model # printed on it on black letters, along with the weight and arrows with the direction of the CRT's front.
Hope this helps...
UV!
Ah thank you Vito. That explains why there are parts of the screen that appear smudged.
Like you said, you get what you pay for.
Just so I know, there are no FW-900s that were ever B stock right?
EDIT: Actually now I recall seeing a refurbished FW-900 so nevermind.
D
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Why are top CRT's always aperture grille (AG) ones? What about high-end shadow mask (SM) ones? Can SM CRT's produce very high/infinite contrast ratio like AG's? I recall SM's being sharper, but dimmer than AG's, but AG's suffer from showing 2 thick horizontal lines on white background.
jbltecnicspro
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Viewsonic made a top-end shadow mask tube. Don't remember the model - Displaymate folks ranked it as one of the best though.
I just want to make sure what I'm seeing is normal. I'm totally OK with if it's normal behavior.
no not normal
try another computer/laptop to make sure it's not your video card
(not 100% sure) during the windas wpb procedure, during the first step of setting the g2, the program sets a bunch of parameters to default, i always notice more ringing than normal but it fixes after you go through the rest of the procedure. may be worth a try doing a full wpb procedure
LAGRUNAUER
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I just want to make sure what I'm seeing is normal. I'm totally OK with if it's normal behavior.
It is NOT NORMAL!
UV!
LAGRUNAUER
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Ah thank you Vito. That explains why there are parts of the screen that appear smudged.
Like you said, you get what you pay for.
Just so I know, there are no FW-900s that were ever B stock right?
EDIT: Actually now I recall seeing a refurbished FW-900 so nevermind.
There were many of them... As well as other models...
I said it many times and I'll keep on saying it again... You'll get what you paid for..."
UV!
I can get LACIE elektron 22 blue II for like $30
Unfortunately I am long past amount of CRTs that any sane person keeps around. I could use it to test evil FPGA contraptions instead of LG 915+ that I brought for that purpose (to spare poor FW900) but what to do with LG then?
Maybe if I bring it and tell I got it for free and I won't be physically harmed? too much...
BTW.
I did some gamut testing on polarizer against my LCD
it doesn't seem to do anything in areas where eye cones are sensitive so should at least not reduce gamut. I doubt it can increase, it is just darkening it.
@spacediver
ah yes, I do not really understand how vacuum tubes work so I must have mentally skipped that one
I wonder if G2 should be lower or higher, what is preferable to tube health. Like I have to set brightness around 40 to have black black (in modes such as 6500K it is more like 20 or something like that) and would increasing G2 slightly so that I need brightness of 10 would improve tube life or actually decrease it. And if decrease then would lowering G2 so that I need brightness of like 60 be good or not?
What "brightness "actually changing? Is "BIAS" setting changing the same thing?
I always assumed it is the same exact thing: G2 voltage and change in G2 but setting brightness so it gives the same picture might only put more or less stress on voltage regulation circuitry and have nothing to do with tube health itself because guns get exactly the save voltage.
Is my assessment right or totally wrong? If wrong then how brightness and bias setting differ from G2 voltage?
Oh, and putting AG will undoubtedly reduce lifespan of tube. Well, who cares? If it kick the bucket I will get something else
Besides chances are that half of its electronics will die long before tube burns out so I like really do not care. Best preservation measure is to use it only to play games and that way it will last me many years to come.
Unfortunately I am long past amount of CRTs that any sane person keeps around. I could use it to test evil FPGA contraptions instead of LG 915+ that I brought for that purpose (to spare poor FW900) but what to do with LG then?
Maybe if I bring it and tell I got it for free and I won't be physically harmed? too much...
BTW.
I did some gamut testing on polarizer against my LCD
it doesn't seem to do anything in areas where eye cones are sensitive so should at least not reduce gamut. I doubt it can increase, it is just darkening it.
@spacediver
ah yes, I do not really understand how vacuum tubes work so I must have mentally skipped that one
I wonder if G2 should be lower or higher, what is preferable to tube health. Like I have to set brightness around 40 to have black black (in modes such as 6500K it is more like 20 or something like that) and would increasing G2 slightly so that I need brightness of 10 would improve tube life or actually decrease it. And if decrease then would lowering G2 so that I need brightness of like 60 be good or not?
What "brightness "actually changing? Is "BIAS" setting changing the same thing?
I always assumed it is the same exact thing: G2 voltage and change in G2 but setting brightness so it gives the same picture might only put more or less stress on voltage regulation circuitry and have nothing to do with tube health itself because guns get exactly the save voltage.
Is my assessment right or totally wrong? If wrong then how brightness and bias setting differ from G2 voltage?
Oh, and putting AG will undoubtedly reduce lifespan of tube. Well, who cares? If it kick the bucket I will get something else
Besides chances are that half of its electronics will die long before tube burns out so I like really do not care. Best preservation measure is to use it only to play games and that way it will last me many years to come.
actually no, I do not recommend themThanks for the link. Would you recommend the first one? From what I've read you seem to be very happy with contrast improvement. Does it affect colors calibration? What kind of problems do you have with adhesive?
Oh and regarding audophilia please do not put me in this bag, this is kind of thing I never had respect of
1. near impossible to put it on
2. polarizer is protected only from one side which means it can get easily damaged when handling it improperly
3. I got sheet with flaw in adhesive which caused line with color fringes.From looking at sheet it continue up some more. Hopefully last part (normally this amount should cover 3 monitors like FW900) will be ok...
4. It have those strange colorizations that are visible on my photos and auction phoptos. They are not visible when using monitor but still do not look very nice when monitor is off
It would be the best to get something without adhesive, with two protective layers from both sides. Technically circular polarizer with be superior.
Hey jb, I was reading an old post of yours and did I read correctly that you were able to get a clear analog signal from an AMD card? And you could see text much more clearly on the Artisan? Wow. I no longer have the build in my sig to try this
I have a GTX580 on another computer I'm going to try tonight, maybe that will reducing the signal from ringing.
I will probably try to buy a gold contact VGA to DVI-I cable.
All said and done though I think the eBay seller should be held accountable for their listing. I feel mislead by their claim it was brand new in the box. It says nothing about refurbished and its very clear to me my monitor has seen use (unlike the ad that says unused).
Just very very upset right now.
I have a GTX580 on another computer I'm going to try tonight, maybe that will reducing the signal from ringing.
I will probably try to buy a gold contact VGA to DVI-I cable.
All said and done though I think the eBay seller should be held accountable for their listing. I feel mislead by their claim it was brand new in the box. It says nothing about refurbished and its very clear to me my monitor has seen use (unlike the ad that says unused).
Just very very upset right now.
DVI-A to VGA adapters should not add visible amount of distortions. I use them and they are fine even at highest resolutions. I have DVI-A to VGA cable and it gives the same picture quality as VGA cable + any of such adapter. NV cards and AMD cards should give the same picture quality.
If anything it is either monitor itself or low quality cable.
If anything it is either monitor itself or low quality cable.