24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

Before I pull the trigger on this beast, I was wondering if anyone would clarify or help me choose which monitor to buy from AccurateIT. http://www.accurateit.com/

On their 24'' crt page, they have two types of FW900's, which I have come to the understanding that they are the same.

First the, HP GDM-FW9012:

Grade B: $319
Refurbished -A: $599

Next they have the traditional SONY GDM-FW900:

Grade B: $399
Refurbished -A: $799

Is there something I'm not understanding about the differences or something of that sort? As it stands, it seems logical to choose the -A Hp $599 one.

I plan on giving them a call, but does anyone care to correct me, or have anything to add?
 
rawdrush said:
Before I pull the trigger on this beast, I was wondering if anyone would clarify or help me choose which monitor to buy from AccurateIT. http://www.accurateit.com/

On their 24'' crt page, they have two types of FW900's, which I have come to the understanding that they are the same.

First the, HP GDM-FW9012:

Grade B: $319
Refurbished -A: $599

Next they have the traditional SONY GDM-FW900:

Grade B: $399
Refurbished -A: $799

Is there something I'm not understanding about the differences or something of that sort? As it stands, it seems logical to choose the -A Hp $599 one.

I plan on giving them a call, but does anyone care to correct me, or have anything to add?
Click to expand...


yeah, it basically looks like you'd be paying an extra $200 for that Sony bezel! :eek:
 
I have a fw900 of course, and I STILL cannot find a good LCD to replace it. LOL. Ugh this monitor has made me a into such a snob. LOL
 
Yeah I am officially giving up on LCD and will check back in 2-3 years after my next fw900 dies.

Speaking of which, I am probably going to give in and get it from Accurate It and pay too much, sigh.

By the way, do NOT order the FW900 from Accurate It off ebay. Order it directly from their site for $40 more. If you look really, really carefully, the ebay ones are B - (B minus). The ones on their site are B. I called to confirm this and they said quietly "you don't want the ones off ebay" (because I was worried about glass quality)

Ugh. $320 for a CRT in 2009. But what else can I do.
I didn't even like the 30" Dell 3007, at all.
 
Any Ideas on what to look for when digging through pallets of these? Im assuming no scratches on the anti-glare and newer monitor date. And that it powers up...
 
Brightness problem. It can be easily fixed by Windas if you have the proper cable, but if you don't already it's a bit of a hassle to obtain the parts you need. If you don't have a serial port, you can use a USB-serial converter.

If you can get it cheap and it still works, I don't think the scratches on the anti-glare is that big a deal - just rip it off and no scratches, although you lose the coating. Yes, you can see your face reflected during the daytime, but I normally only use it for console gaming at night anyway.

More annoying is the geometry problems inherent in all CRTs - it seems to be even more fiddly on the FW900, maybe cause of the widescreen aspect. My 22" Mitsubishi diamondtron seems to have much better convergence, geometry, etc. but it's standard aspect.
 
alamone said:
Brightness problem. It can be easily fixed by Windas if you have the proper cable, but if you don't already it's a bit of a hassle to obtain the parts you need. If you don't have a serial port, you can use a USB-serial converter.

If you can get it cheap and it still works, I don't think the scratches on the anti-glare is that big a deal - just rip it off and no scratches, although you lose the coating. Yes, you can see your face reflected during the daytime, but I normally only use it for console gaming at night anyway.

More annoying is the geometry problems inherent in all CRTs - it seems to be even more fiddly on the FW900, maybe cause of the widescreen aspect. My 22" Mitsubishi diamondtron seems to have much better convergence, geometry, etc. but it's standard aspect.
Click to expand...

Convergence apparently another thing that can be fixed with WinDas...
 
How bright does the FW 900 go at max? I keep having problems with my old CRTs getting dark too fast and I like monitors to be really really bright. Like how does it compare to some bright LCDs? Usually most LCDs aren't bright enough to me, even at max. Also, I used to see CRTs that had a "Power Screen" mode where you hit a button on the front and it would activate some tube option in the back of the monitor and light the whole screen up to be mugh brighter and colorful. Anyone know what this is called and if the FW 900 has it?
 
CousCous said:
How bright does the FW 900 go at max? I keep having problems with my old CRTs getting dark too fast and I like monitors to be really really bright. Like how does it compare to some bright LCDs? Usually most LCDs aren't bright enough to me, even at max. Also, I used to see CRTs that had a "Power Screen" mode where you hit a button on the front and it would activate some tube option in the back of the monitor and light the whole screen up to be mugh brighter and colorful. Anyone know what this is called and if the FW 900 has it?
Click to expand...

I don't know what the brightness spec on the FW900 is, but your desires are polar opposite to the habits and desires of professional graphics users, which is the target market for the FW900.

In general, most LCDs don't go DARK enough for professionals, and you're claiming that most aren't bright enough for you? Good luck with that.... :eek:
 
Surly73 said:
I don't know what the brightness spec on the FW900 is, but your desires are polar opposite to the habits and desires of professional graphics users, which is the target market for the FW900.

In general, most LCDs don't go DARK enough for professionals, and you're claiming that most aren't bright enough for you? Good luck with that.... :eek:
Click to expand...

For stuff like gaming, most LCDs don't even go bright enough to properly see anything if the game has any dark parts at all. Same goes for any kind of movie or tv show or anything else. I don't know why the heck "professionals" would want to edit video or do photo work or whatever when they can't even see the source work they're using but I sure wouldn't. The original posters pics look to have decent brightness, but I'd like to know what settings they have it at and if the brightness can go higher.
 
CousCous said:
For stuff like gaming, most LCDs don't even go bright enough to properly see anything if the game has any dark parts at all. Same goes for any kind of movie or tv show or anything else. I don't know why the heck "professionals" would want to edit video or do photo work or whatever when they can't even see the source work they're using but I sure wouldn't. The original posters pics look to have decent brightness, but I'd like to know what settings they have it at and if the brightness can go higher.
Click to expand...

First, you can't actually judge anything about a display by looking at a digital photo online.

How bright you need a monitor depends on how bright your environment is. LCD's number one problem is contrast ratio. Dark content STILL isn't dark enough and black is still grey. Cranking the brightness on an LCD makes this even worse. When black levels of 0 still look grey, you can see all of the source material - it doesn't get any blacker than that grey. Perhaps you're used to LCDs with poor gamma tracking or you need to rearrange your computing environment to reduce glare...

I can see all of my content just fine at 0% backlight levels, and sometimes wish for lower, on my NEC.

It's also worth noting that generally, even if a CRT-based monitor can go very bright, it always comes at a cost. As you crank brightness and contrast it will usually lose sharpness, bloom, distort geometry, dramatically reduce phosphor life, dramatically increase the chance of burn in and stress internal power supply components to the maximum.
 
Surly73 said:
First, you can't actually judge anything about a display by looking at a digital photo online.

How bright you need a monitor depends on how bright your environment is. LCD's number one problem is contrast ratio. Dark content STILL isn't dark enough and black is still grey. Cranking the brightness on an LCD makes this even worse. When black levels of 0 still look grey, you can see all of the source material - it doesn't get any blacker than that grey. Perhaps you're used to LCDs with poor gamma tracking or you need to rearrange your computing environment to reduce glare...

I can see all of my content just fine at 0% backlight levels, and sometimes wish for lower, on my NEC.

It's also worth noting that generally, even if a CRT-based monitor can go very bright, it always comes at a cost. As you crank brightness and contrast it will usually lose sharpness, bloom, distort geometry, dramatically reduce phosphor life, dramatically increase the chance of burn in and stress internal power supply components to the maximum.
Click to expand...


You can see the screen at zero brightness, sure. But its very hard to watch a movie or play a game or do anything if its not bright. Everything looks extremely dim and hard to see, making it very unenjoyable. Sharpness, bloom, geometry, etc means nothing if I can't even see the image clearly. It has nothing to do with whether the monitor is a CRT or LCD. And at what point does the brightness on a CRT start effecting those things?
 
Okay, even though it sounds like there's still some confusion regarding brightness (white level) and contrast (black level), I'll just come out and say it: Most CRTs don't get anywhere near as bright as the average LCD. LCDs are generally much brighter. And the FW900 is no exception. But again, if you're unable to make out details in dark scenes no matter how bright you're setting your monitor, then the problem is most likely contrast ratio and/or a poor viewing environment (ambient room lighting).
 
Mitsubishi Superbright Tubes can go far brighter than a LCD but that's why the 2 modes are only to be used for Photo's and Video not 24/7 as it would hurt you eyes. (Warns you in the manuals).
 
CousCous said:
For stuff like gaming, most LCDs don't even go bright enough to properly see anything if the game has any dark parts at all.
Click to expand...
CousCous, does this mean that your main concern is with shadow detail/black level? Since you dislike LCDs, I assume you are referring to panels which experience black crush?

Black Point Test
 
Cyberbeing said:
CousCous, does this mean that your main concern is with shadow detail/black level? Since you dislike LCDs, I assume you are referring to panels which experience black crush?

Black Point Test
Click to expand...

This is what I was trying to get at with my "gamma tracking" comment. The poster complaining and generalizing that you can't see low light detail on LCDs (even though black is visibly grey) probably has screens that crush blacks badly.
 
I currently have a Samsung T220 and no good way to calibrate it. I'm not even sure what I should be looking at in that test.
 
Surly73 said:
This is what I was trying to get at with my "gamma tracking" comment. The poster complaining and generalizing that you can't see low light detail on LCDs (even though black is visibly grey) probably has screens that crush blacks badly.
Click to expand...

The westinghouse 24" I bought (After my FW900 died) had this problem to an intolerable extent. In turn, it was returned. But, not ALL lcd's are that bad.

My Soyo 24" as well as my Samsung 40" are very respectable at black levels. Granted, they both took a few hours to tune.

I mainly use this site (www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/) to adjust my displays for proper gamma and contrast. Admittedly, my tastes are inclined to have my color be slightly saturated and vibrant. But this site helps me to keep my colors balanced while tweaking. As well, I can find the best mix between to dark and to bright.

I hate to speak bad about CRT in the mother of all CRT threads. I love CRTs.. But you aren't going to find a 40" CRT HD digital monitor around. And if you pick the right LCD, you will find that you can get *close enough* to CRT color quality (after extensive tweaking) that you'll hardly miss the old thing.

BTW, the Sammy A550 is becoming a popular choice for big-screen gamers. If anyone wants to compare settings, I'd be glad to share what I've set my monitor up like.
 
Rock&Roll said:
The westinghouse 24" I bought (After my FW900 died) had this problem to an intolerable extent. In turn, it was returned. But, not ALL lcd's are that bad.

My Soyo 24" as well as my Samsung 40" are very respectable at black levels. Granted, they both took a few hours to tune.

I mainly use this site (www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/) to adjust my displays for proper gamma and contrast. Admittedly, my tastes are inclined to have my color be slightly saturated and vibrant. But this site helps me to keep my colors balanced while tweaking. As well, I can find the best mix between to dark and to bright.

I hate to speak bad about CRT in the mother of all CRT threads. I love CRTs.. But you aren't going to find a 40" CRT HD digital monitor around. And if you pick the right LCD, you will find that you can get *close enough* to CRT color quality (after extensive tweaking) that you'll hardly miss the old thing.

BTW, the Sammy A550 is becoming a popular choice for big-screen gamers. If anyone wants to compare settings, I'd be glad to share what I've set my monitor up like.
Click to expand...


I can't get my T220 to look right using that test no matter what the settings are and I'm still on the contrast part. The vertical viewing angle also doesn't help and colors shift all over the place whenever I move my head up and down, so I'm not even sure what position I should be in to do it. Its like I'm looking at some holographic foil trading card or image or something that changes the picture when you move it. Not to mention that the colors look washed out and distorted in general and I'm having this problem here.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1393449

This stuff is why I currently dislike LCDs and this is only my first one (coming from a really old and dark CRT that was too dark on max brightness to play games on). I'm also not willing to spend $600 or $700+ on some IPS panel that will still most likely give me problems.


So yeah I'm not really sure what to do.
 
TBH, your T220 sounds like it doesn't comply with what I said about picking the "right" LCD. Not all LCD's are created equal.

There are TN's that can rival MVA's. You need to shop and compare more. Return your T220 if you can't adjust it. (This is why I always by LCD's locally)
 
Rock&Roll said:
TBH, your T220 sounds like it doesn't comply with what I said about picking the "right" LCD. Not all LCD's are created equal.

There are TN's that can rival MVA's. You need to shop and compare more. Return your T220 if you can't adjust it. (This is why I always by LCD's locally)
Click to expand...



You have any idea what is wrong with those two images I posted in the topic I linked? I get warped, blocky colors like that in most movies/tv shows/animated stuff whenever I watch them. Also I got the T220 because a bunch of people recommended it. If thats not any good, then what is?


And its just that its really tempting to pick up an FW900 on ebay, knowing that if it actually works and doesn't have that distorted image/popping problem upon turning it on I'm hearing about it will probably be great, and there are some under $400. The not being able to exchange it if theres a problem thing is pretty much the only drawback.
 
Rock&Roll said:
I hate to speak bad about CRT in the mother of all CRT threads. I love CRTs.. But you aren't going to find a 40" CRT HD digital monitor around. And if you pick the right LCD, you will find that you can get *close enough* to CRT color quality (after extensive tweaking) that you'll hardly miss the old thing.
Click to expand...

This is kind of how I ended up with my 2490 (along with luck). It's "good enough" compared to my F520 CRT that I consider the benefits to outweigh the negatives. I always notice the poor black level, but that's just about all any more.

If they could make something which was basically a 2490 with 1500:1 true contrast ratio (or thereabouts) we might be there.
 
CousCous said:
You have any idea what is wrong with those two images I posted in the topic I linked? I get warped, blocky colors like that in most movies/tv shows/animated stuff whenever I watch them. Also I got the T220 because a bunch of people recommended it. If thats not any good, then what is?


And its just that its really tempting to pick up an FW900 on ebay, knowing that if it actually works and doesn't have that distorted image/popping problem upon turning it on I'm hearing about it will probably be great, and there are some under $400. The not being able to exchange it if theres a problem thing is pretty much the only drawback.
Click to expand...

No idea. Depending on the source, it could even been some sort of a decoding issue.
 
Rock&Roll said:
No idea. Depending on the source, it could even been some sort of a decoding issue.
Click to expand...



When I plug my old CRT in it doesn't have that problem, and the LCD does it with any movie/tv show/whatever I try to play with VLC, Media Player Classic, ZPlayer, etc.
 
Surly73 said:
This is kind of how I ended up with my 2490 (along with luck). It's "good enough" compared to my F520 CRT that I consider the benefits to outweigh the negatives. I always notice the poor black level, but that's just about all any more.

If they could make something which was basically a 2490 with 1500:1 true contrast ratio (or thereabouts) we might be there.
Click to expand...

I assume you mean a 15,000 to 1 or better true contrast ratio if getting there means squaring up with the dynamic range of a premium CRT...

(Though LCDs can have other virtues...)
 
I just recently got my A7217A and my screen is a little blurry.

I've read that dvi to bnc increases quality, but does anyone know if it adds input lag over vga?

for some reason my mind just wants to think that..

or does anyone know how to increase how sharp the screen is?
 
rawdrush said:
I just recently got my A7217A and my screen is a little blurry.

I've read that dvi to bnc increases quality, but does anyone know if it adds input lag over vga?

for some reason my mind just wants to think that..

or does anyone know how to increase how sharp the screen is?
Click to expand...

u can reach two focus pots from the back top of the monitor with a skinny screwdriver.

let me see if i can find a picture of it...
 
rawdrush said:
I've read that dvi to bnc increases quality, but does anyone know if it adds input lag over vga?
Click to expand...

5 BNC monitor inputs are basically just VGA over a different connection. The only real difference is that the autodetection wires are not connected so Windows cannot detect the display type. It won't add any input lag at all.

Using normal BNC cables adds minimal quality, if any, over a quality VGA cable. I've used BNCs on several different monitors and never noticed a real difference. I've seen a fair number of total POS vga cables. The one that came with my 24" LCD was a total piece of shit. Most VGA or DVI-A to 5BNC cables are basically just plain old VGA cables with 5 skinny little BNC wires that fan out of the cable about 6-8" from the end. Since any decent VGA cable will use about that same gauge of skinny coax for at least the red, green, and blue lines, the difference is minimal if there is any at all.

Now if you really do things right and use nice thick coax for all 5 lines for the entire length of the cable you might see a little difference in a 6' cable... maybe. If it's a really long cable run, you'll see a huge difference. At least up to a point thicker coax can carry a signal farther without degrading. It's the main reason cable is kicking the snot out of DSL speed-wise.
 
Thanks to the both of you who responded, I appreciate it.

I will look into the focus pot adjustment, although I'll probably find some way to break something doing it.

Also, the cable post was very informative. I think I'll just stay with a vga cable; but I still would like the best one possible.

Would the DVI to VGA from
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/dvi-cables/index.htm
be the best option/work correctly?
 
Help! My FW900 is whining loudly!

Things I've tried:
Changing between a variety of resolutions/refresh rates
Switching between BNC and VGA
Letting it discharge
Moving it around

It gets louder the brighter the monitor is, so it seems to be something power related. Any ideas what it is or how I might go about fixing it?

IM NOT READY TO SAY GOODBYE :(
 
Those are the same monitors and both have a 6 month warranty...personally I would not buy a B grade monitor without seeing it. There could be screen defects possibily.
 
alkemyst said:
Those are the same monitors and both have a 6 month warranty...personally I would not buy a B grade monitor without seeing it. There could be screen defects possibily.
Click to expand...


Are there any other places to buy then? Right now my options are either this site or trust some random person on ebay with no good return policy.
 
You have to search for them...there are VERY good vendors on ebay from time to time. You really have to ask yourself though if this monitor is right for you. Most would be happier with an LCD.

I'd first check out the video forum with your budget and see what displays are within range. I love my 21" sony, but I am seriously eyeing the Planar PW2611W
 
alkemyst said:
You have to search for them...there are VERY good vendors on ebay from time to time. You really have to ask yourself though if this monitor is right for you. Most would be happier with an LCD.

I'd first check out the video forum with your budget and see what displays are within range. I love my 21" sony, but I am seriously eyeing the Planar PW2611W
Click to expand...



If all I care about are things like image quality and response time (which is all someone looking for a gaming monitor should care about), then which LCDs would make me happy? Things like size and power consumption are so much less important than image quality that they are pretty much non factors in comparison. I have a CRT tv and the LCD sitting right here, and the difference between the two for even displaying the same screen (say the PS2 startup screen for example) is huge. The LCD looks dull and washed out while the CRTs colors are crisp and clear. Its not just black level or whatever either. Its the whole picture.
 
CousCous said:
If all I care about are things like image quality and response time (which is all someone looking for a gaming monitor should care about), then which LCDs would make me happy? Things like size and power consumption are so much less important than image quality that they are pretty much non factors in comparison. I have a CRT tv and the LCD sitting right here, and the difference between the two for even displaying the same screen (say the PS2 startup screen for example) is huge. The LCD looks dull and washed out while the CRTs colors are crisp and clear. Its not just black level or whatever either. Its the whole picture.
Click to expand...

outside this topic really, but if a gaming monitor is your sole criteria the FW900 is not really a leading choice for most. Many LCD's that people have are craptastic...just like during the heyday of CRT's most never had a $700+ monitor sitting on their desks.

The Planar PX2611, the DS-623N/DS-625W, and a few others are excellent gaming monitors and would suit almost everyone short of photo pros.

The FW900 is great...however most don't realize it's size until they have it in front of them. Also getting one shipped successfully could prove daunting.

I'd love a FW900, but the hassle to get my two GDM500's shipped to me doesn't have me wanting to go through that. They were packaged well, however; the carriers (both) decided to abuse them...I was only out of pocket time and effort in the end, but it was a lot of work
 
Just because you do not want to go through with the shipping do not think others feel the same.

This is a thread about CRT not crappy LCD, thankfully multiple posts at th end of this thread where some n00b continually talked and posted screens of a crappy LCD were lost in last weeks downtime of site.
 
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