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20x Computer Build Help

Spectre said:
Have you discussed or figured out your data confidentiality and retention policy yet? Backups methods and storage?
Click to expand...

FTW!

I hope he has.

I am actually not sure of the viewing requirements for Dental x-rays, so a "normal" LCD may be fine, but the software and modality (x-ray machine) used will most definitely be 510(K) certified, it's an FDA regulation.

But retention policies are legal requirements and in my field (Medical Imaging) we have to keep most studies for 7 years and digital mammographies for the LIFE of the patient! My PACS database runs on a EMC SAN and is 8 Terabytes (and yes we back that up to tape with a full GFS scheme!)

That being said, I wish the OP good luck in the endeavor and learn as much as you can about DICOM and PACS systems in general, It's a new field and relatively high paying. Remember, installation is just the beginning, support is the real job!
 
brent_anderson said:
FTW!

I hope he has.

I am actually not sure of the viewing requirements for Dental x-rays, so a "normal" LCD may be fine, but the software and modality (x-ray machine) used will most definitely be 510(K) certified, it's an FDA regulation.

But retention policies are legal requirements and in my field (Medical Imaging) we have to keep most studies for 7 years and digital mammographies for the LIFE of the patient! My PACS database runs on a EMC SAN and is 8 Terabytes (and yes we back that up to tape with a full GFS scheme!)

That being said, I wish the OP good luck in the endeavor and learn as much as you can about DICOM and PACS systems in general, It's a new field and relatively high paying. Remember, installation is just the beginning, support is the real job!
Click to expand...


I do not think he has laid ANY thought as to backups, federal requirements, legality issues, etc.

He's treating this as his own folding farm it appears.
 
I am hoping the Vendor is an established Dental PACS provider and during the installation this will be covered so all he has to do is follow the schedule they set up.
 
FlowGaming said:
Dental Room’s
Each denial room (8x) will get a brand new custom computer listed below.

System Specks:
-CPU: e6300 1.86GHz Duel Core CPU ($185)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819115005

[...]
Click to expand...
Please call Dell and negotiate a nice deal for 20 business systems with support.
TheRapture said:
I do not think he has laid ANY thought as to backups, federal requirements, legality issues, etc.
Click to expand...

What is that you say? There are governmental regulations for doctors? No way.
 
working in a company with 50 plus aging work stations and connected hardware printers
etc. and employees who abuse the computers unintetionally,this keeps 1 man busy about 60 hours a weeek
 
enginurd said:
Setup one system, image the drive, and push that image onto the rest (assuming you get volume licensing).
Click to expand...

Hell it can be done without too much hassel without using volume licensing but a vlk for windows(and office if you are going to use it) really helps.


FlowGaming said:
There is one spare system and spare parts to go along on top of that.

All the networking is taken care of.
(god forbid... if i chose to buy a wire and plug it in. I shall get flamed because I'm not paying someone to do it for me :/)
Click to expand...

A spare is nice to have. That should help you if a machine dies during the day.
What you planning on networking?

InorganicMatter said:
You guys lay off him and quit acting like he is trying to do the impossible. I did it, there's no reason he can't. It can be done, its a great learning experience, and he can always make some extra money by charging for support on an hourly basis. :D

I should really emphasize the need for a VLK. You really, really, really need one. It will be cheaper, and a million times easier. With a VLK, you will be able to set up one system, and clone it to the other 19 without any licensing issues. If you don't have a VLK, cloning will be a nightmare (most likely impossible) due to Microsoft's activation system (worst idea ever). Activation is an IT person's worst nightmare, you will very, very, very much appreciate not having to deal with it (and you will also appreciate the lower cost).
Click to expand...

Let me start by saying I agree 100% that a vlk is the way to go.

With that being said you can always seal the image and just enter the serial key off the coa on the side of the box. Doesn't add too much hassel most of the time. I've worked on a few projects that they did it this way. Personaly I prefer a vlk with a full seal anyway so it can be moved to other hardware easy.

Spectre said:
Have you discussed or figured out your data confidentiality and retention policy yet? Backups methods and storage?
Click to expand...

This is something I'm interested in too. It is a big pain in the ass and a very important step.


To the OP. If you choose to go with a VLK for the software you would need to buy 1 license of xp pro for the vlk disk and 4 licenses of something elce. Think last time we got it we got 4 copies of encarta. You could buy 5 upgrade vlks for xp outright but I don't see the point. You still need the xp pro oem copies for the coas. I can give you the ms information that says you can use a vlk in place of an oem copy. It does make the setup better. Plus you almost never have to worry about the wga crap. Just shoot me a pm if you have any questions. I standard image accross the board will really help in the future. I'm sure SJ and others will be able to chime in on how this can help. Last one we setup with the group I worked for was for 75+ machines accross 6 locations.

As far as the networking goes how is it covered? Someone doing all the wiring and setting it up or are they doing it turn key? A lot of thought can go into setting it up right. Also have you figured out how you are doing the rights and everything for the machines? Running as a workgroup or domain etc? With that many machines a domain with roaming profiles would really help. I ask as I've seen my fair share of doctors offices that have windows based servers and for some reason have workgroups setup instead of domains. Most of the time we are talking less then 10 machines though. Always wonder why the software vendors that set them up did it. We have a office(dentist) that was setup with windows server std with like 15 stations all xp pro or windows 2000 and no domain setup. Not sure why.

Anyway what are the plans for av protection, backup etc? Are you going to be running internet filtering software or blocks that need to be setup etc?
 
My main goal is not to create a folding farm. Though.. these computers are not used at night
and I want to put these computers to a good use. (my only thought was that I can use my
computers to help the world out)


The networking
-I am very capable of getting all this stuff done. I have close friends that network each and
every day. I will be perfectly fine with the help that is around me.


Back Up's
-I have 1TB of HD Space due to my Raid 5 of 3x 500g hd's. And I need a way to take a back
up copy of all that data and store it off site in case anything is to happen. (ie- fire)
Patterson Dental recommended my getting large external hard drives and that is what I have
done. I purchased 2x 750g Seagate External Hard Drives. This way the office manager can
alternate each hard drive week to week and always have a copy that works.


Spare Parts
-there is a spare computer being built. Since the computer only access everything from
the server nothing is kept on the actual workstations. So when ever someones computer
decides to have fun and play games they can easily plug the extra spare system in and
continue as normal.
-I also have 2x extra PSU's
-1x Motherboard
-1x Video card
-case fans
-1x 1g ram


Server
-I have bought all the parts for this system aswell.
-I have talked to Patterson dental about what I should get and this system is just fine
e6600
4g Kingston Ram
7300gs
3x 500g hd's
great raid card forgot name ;/
hot swap bays
corsair 620w psu
CM Stacker
etc


Things I still want to look into and etc
-web mail server. The office wants to have their own email name and etc. Now my local
ISP friend was telling me about a good program for $300 that will run on any older pc.
It will save all emails, track all emails, and allow you to create as many email accounts
as needed.
-Some Type of firewall
-What Anti-Virus software to go with
-anything else recommended
-I just want to know from experienced people "how they would go about making sure that
everything on the security end is all taken care of" Since this office is going to do a lot of
online stuff.
 
I am by no means an expert, but I would look into whether Microsoft Small Business Server makes sense for this operation. What kind of internet connection do you have. Do you plan on using an external mail server or run that locally?

-I just want to know from experienced people "how they would go about making sure that everything on the security end is all taken care of" Since this office is going to do a lot of
online stuff.
Click to expand...
Implement a default-deny policy across all computers and keep all the programs that you use updated. Have a (hardware) firewall that denies all incoming connections except the few that you know you will need.
Create a data retention and data destruction policy for the office. Make sure that you are aware of the legal data protection requirements for medical records that apply to your business.
 
i know you already ordered the parts for the server, but you should at least consider getting a real server. server parts are a LOT more robust than desktop parts; they are more expensive, but for a reason.

if you want to build it yourself, i would get a servermicro or intel chassis with the board and hot swap bays / power supply already installed. probably $400+ for a basic "barebones" unit, but the likelihood you'll need to replace server parts will be negligible. without at nightly tape backup, you need the best hardware assurance you can get. get registered ram (protects the files moving across it). a server is probably really best suited to onboard video. less parts = less parts to fail. just drop in your hard drives and raid controller and you're good to go.

worst case, you can use the existing server parts as spares.

i'm not trying to flame; i'm trying to be helpful. if a workstation fails, you can replace it easily with no data loss and minimal downtime. if the server fails and loses 2-3 days (due to weekly backup) of medical and business records - that's a lot to recover from!

for antivirus, i would get something like mcafee or symantec corporate. something that could push updates from the server to the whole network regularly.

i would also consider at least endian community firewall or ipcop + AV/spyware/spam filtering, if not for a better commercial appliance (even an endian commercial unit). it can keep a lot of crap from the internet out of your network.
 
Have you picked up any spare parts for the server?

Also you'll definitely want a decent UPS unit on at least the server.
 
So I have just been reading this thread trying to provide a couple questions to make you think about some of the things involved with this that you may not have but at this point, it looks like you are going to have a couple major issues that need to be pointed out. Starting with:

FlowGaming said:
Back Up's
-I have 1TB of HD Space due to my Raid 5 of 3x 500g hd's. And I need a way to take a back
up copy of all that data and store it off site in case anything is to happen. (ie- fire)
Patterson Dental recommended my getting large external hard drives and that is what I have
done. I purchased 2x 750g Seagate External Hard Drives. This way the office manager can
alternate each hard drive week to week and always have a copy that works.
Click to expand...

This is a disaster waiting to happen. Your backups need to be on a more durable media especially for medical and you need to have a more frequent backup policy than once a week not to mention your storage requirements need to be compliant (at least in PT so I would assume dental would be similiar) with all the HIPAA regulations. You will be storing this data long term and harddrives aren't a good way to do it.

A medical office is not the same as data storage/retention/confidentiality at a regular business.


-I just want to know from experienced people "how they would go about making sure that
everything on the security end is all taken care of" Since this office is going to do a lot of
online stuff.
Click to expand...

Hire someone to do it right you aren't just dealing with an offices internet working but a lot of regulations about your data integrity.
 
FlowGaming said:
I am going with the ThermalTake 430w PSU. They have got a great rating of over
1000+ positive feed backs on newegg.

The stock PSU's I'm NOT going to use. I am actually going to use those for a case wiring
mod project :)
Click to expand...

cuz you cant see the damage a PSU is doing, and most of the people at newegg really dont know much about PSUs.

I've would have to say i have seen a disporportionally large ammount of dead thermaltake PSUs. Just a few weeks ago a guy had made a guy brought in a dead computer he himself built (gotta understand thats pretty rare these days) containing a dead thermaltake PSU. It took the mobo with it. It was subjected to the damage that was done to vancouvers power grid by the freak windstorm a few weeks back. Anywho, it made a great door stopper.

I dont sell any thermaltake products anymore, I make the occasional acception for cases if a customer has their heart set on it.
 
FlowGaming said:
Things I still want to look into and etc
-web mail server. The office wants to have their own email name and etc. Now my local
ISP friend was telling me about a good program for $300 that will run on any older pc.
It will save all emails, track all emails, and allow you to create as many email accounts
as needed.
-Some Type of firewall
-What Anti-Virus software to go with
-anything else recommended
-I just want to know from experienced people "how they would go about making sure that
everything on the security end is all taken care of" Since this office is going to do a lot of
online stuff.
Click to expand...

Just get small business server and use exchange for the email. No reason to put it on another machine. Big thing with email is you really need a static ip address on business dsl or cable. We had some clients running no-ip using dhcp bases dsl and cable solutions but the spam filters are starting to hit it.

For the firewall I would just get a good router. You can find info in the networking section. Prob like a sonic wall or cisco 871 or something would be fine.

AV I use symantec corporate at all of my locations as the others guys I work with like it but a lot of people like NOD corporate as well. I'd go with either one. Both seem to work well. I'd also consider spyware doctor enterprise along with them if your machines are going to be on the internet a lot. Only issue I know of is that spyware doctor will set off symantecs tamper protection from time to time.

You also would be good to have something like email av, we use symantecs.

You also need a spam filter for the email. I like GFI. SJ has something elce he uses that is cheaper that he seems to like. Can't remember the name. Ask him and look at those 2 options.

Other things you need is a backup software. Veratas seems to be one of the better ones. It is called symantec backup exec now. Just make sure you have the right addons like email backup.

One thing I will say is that if you haven't setup a server before you really should look at having someone come in and do it for you. It takes a lot more to setup over a workstation.


Spectre said:
This is a disaster waiting to happen. Your backups need to be on a more durable media especially for medical and you need to have a more frequent backup policy than once a week not to mention your storage requirements need to be compliant (at least in PT so I would assume dental would be similiar) with all the HIPAA regulations. You will be storing this data long term and harddrives aren't a good way to do it.
Click to expand...

He has a point. You can get away with external hard drives but you need to look into it more. O yea the HIPAA is going to be a fun read.....
 
this whole thing has the potential to be a recipe for disaster on more than a couple of levels.

IMO, what should have been done is either:
A.) use an OEM like dell
B.) built systems that are just above the bare minimum as far as proc power....and use these things for ONLY what the NEED to be used for.

this kid really just wants to create a bunch of folding computers so he can flex the e-penis a little more.

the logistics of this whole operation go well beyond just the building and setup of 20 computers, but the maintanance and repairs they are going to need for the next few years. and we arent just talking about your average computers, these things contain VITAL RECORDS, which if lost could bring upon a whole slew of legal ramifications that this kid would be responsible for.

the effort though is quite commendable, and the most i can really offer is good luck, but in all honesty this was not a smart plan, and there is really no turning back now...unless ebay is your friend.
 
idk if you know or not, but the computers Paterson Dental can sell to you are infact custom built, not dells
 
The OP asked for advice, he got mostly GOOD advice, and he chooses to ignore it. He has not a clue as to what he is doing....and it WILL bite him inthe ass.


Let's just sit back and watch the shitstorm, because it is coming....of course he won't post back about how badly it blew up in his face....
 
TheRapture said:
The OP asked for advice, he got mostly GOOD advice, and he chooses to ignore it. He has not a clue as to what he is doing....and it WILL bite him inthe ass.


Let's just sit back and watch the shitstorm, because it is coming....of course he won't post back about how badly it blew up in his face....
Click to expand...

think positive. What if it goes well :cool: :D
 
You gotta think negative too, like about the ramifications of what's going on.

Otherwise we'd be all doing speedballs while racing down the highways blindfolded. :D
 
Night Black said:
You gotta think negative too, like about the ramifications of what's going on.

Otherwise we'd be all doing speedballs while racing down the highways blindfolded. :D
Click to expand...

well I know you have to prepare for the unexpected, but reading so many negative comments and flaming towards Flowgaming is pain in the ass and quite annoying .:rolleyes:
 
I agree, I do admin work for 20-25 computers. It's easy, but things can go wrong really fast. Example: People working off a file on the network. Something happens to the file, 25 people lose an hour's worth of precise work. I ended up staying 2 hours after trying to narrow down the cause, and to pinpoint the culprit. Turns out someone navigated to the wrong file, and accidentaly wiped out the source.
 
Occasionally these threads pop up where you know someone is about to do something stupid and its like watching a trainwreck. From the kid taking out a $5000 loan for a new computer and doesn't even have a job to this guy, it is fun but at the same time quite sad to watch. Good luck anyways.
 
Night Black said:
I agree, I do admin work for 20-25 computers. It's easy, but things can go wrong really fast. .
Click to expand...


That is probably part of your JOB, not some hair brained side project wanna be folding farm this kid is trying to make.....his lifestyle does not depend on it being right....
 
TheRapture said:
That is probably part of your JOB, not some hair brained side project wanna be folding farm this kid is trying to make.....his lifestyle does not depend on it being right....
Click to expand...
TheRapture...OK...we get it...you dont think he knows what he's getting into...and I agree...but he's doing it anyway...no need to call him an idiot every 5 posts :p

OP,

Wont bother to repeat what lots of users have already said...if you have decided to do it, all I can wish you is good luck and hope for the best :) anyway, if anything goes wrong, we'll still be here :p
 
TheRapture said:
That is probably part of your JOB, not some hair brained side project wanna be folding farm this kid is trying to make.....his lifestyle does not depend on it being right....
Click to expand...

I'm a student, HS, I do this work for FREE. My lifestyle does not depend on getting this correctly. The difference between him and myself is that I have Dells, he has custom PCs. I have a fallback, he's gonnna be FUBARed if anything goes wrong.
 
Ok guys I have read post after post of F***ing posts about me being a dumb a$$ and not
going with dell. I am sick of hearing it! I fully understand what could happen. I understand
every single word that you are telling me but this is the way that I have chosen and am
fully capable of handling everything.

Yes I have a angry tone in my voice/typing but if you simply go back and read any of
these posts its nothing but "You are stupid, why did you not go with an OEM, all your
parts are going to fail, you have no idea what you are doing." Guys I understand where
this project may take me. I came here asking for advice on how to better what I am trying
to do. Not have post after post of telling me that I should have done this or that. It is almost
like I have decided to go with a AMD cpu and everyone here is telling me that I should go
with a INTEL instead of helping me out and trying to make this the best project I can.
Does anyone understand what I mean?


-WHY NOT GO WITH DELL
I have had over 14 computers at my house. Yes parts have gone bad but I am fully able to
handle all the teck. Not to mention I am saving money and learning. Though I am not being
stupid by learning by going this route.

-MY BACK UP IS NOT SAFE ENOUGH
Patterson Dental uses Seagate external HD's for all of their huge customer base. Yes I do
see a few errors with it but it has worked very well for them and is what they highly
recommended. Not to mention I have 2x 750g External HD's to back up to. Not to mention
I am running in a Raid 5. So I have got 3x ways to salvage my data.

-WHAT AM I GOING TO DO WHEN I GO TO COLLAGE
I am going to go to a very good school about 45min away. I will be here in the area just
about every weekend. Not to mention I have quite a few TECK guys that work here. They
will be helping me with this and due to their level of experience they will be paid to come in
and fix my computers. (they are way better then the tecks that I have had sent to my
house and etc before) again I'm fine you you think I'm a F***ing DUMB @$$ when I'm not.

-TheRapture
STFU DUDE!!! I am sick of being called stupid every 5 posts

I agree, I do admin work for 20-25 computers. It's easy, but things can go wrong really fast. Example: People working off a file on the network. Something happens to the file, 25 people lose an hour's worth of precise work. I ended up staying 2 hours after trying to narrow down the cause, and to pinpoint the culprit. Turns out someone navigated to the wrong file, and accidentaly wiped out the source.
Click to expand...
I take care of Hardware not Software! I am using Patterson Dentals Software and have
24x7 teck support. If a hard drive fails or a computer fan goes bad I take care of that. If
there is ANY problem with their software/files they take care of it. (you guys need to
understand that I am not going to lead myself into a stupid deal where my dad/myself/others
are effected by this choice)

I do see where many of you are comming from yet I dont think you really understand where
I am comming from.


Now on to what I need info on

-Hard Drive Image Copying Software
what programs and etc you you guys suggest that will allow me to build and fully setup
1x computer and then copy that hd to all the other computers?

-Security
Im not going to state how I am thinking about setting up the security. Patterson only
suggested Norton but I do not feel that is adequate. How would you guys filter the
everything coming into the office so that I have a good line of safety?
 
FlowGaming said:
-MY BACK UP IS NOT SAFE ENOUGH
Patterson Dental uses Seagate external HD's for all of their huge customer base. Yes I do
see a few errors with it but it has worked very well for them and is what they highly
recommended. Not to mention I have 2x 750g External HD's to back up to. Not to mention
I am running in a Raid 5. So I have got 3x ways to salvage my data.
Click to expand...

If that is their recommended backup method it is time to find a different vendor. Seriously.

And RAID5 is not a backup method.
 
I run a hardware firewall on the network and Mcafee Viruscan on each computer. Works well unless someone disables the AV and goes to a porn site. Then shit flies back and forth, like that video of the first attack of Desert Storm.

Ghost would be a good imaging program, my friends love it.

HDs tend to be ifffy for me... I've had two fail.
 
Flowgaming, go with Sonicwall Brand Hardware Firewall. Very safe, content filtering, and did I metion, very secure. My school uses it and it works well. I'm getting it for my network also.
 
Night Black said:
I run a hardware firewall on the network and Mcafee Viruscan
on each computer. Works well unless someone disables the AV and goes to a porn site. Then shit
flies back and forth, like that video of the first attack of Desert Storm.
Click to expand...

what kind of hardware fire wall would you suggest

Ghost would be a good imaging program, my friends love it.
Click to expand...
That is what I am thinking about going with but.. was wondering if there was anything
better out there.

HDs tend to be ifffy for me... I've had two fail.
Click to expand...
as have I ;/ i just had one die last night with my school paper on it and all my family pictures
that what about 12g's.

If that is their recommended backup method it is time to find a different vendor. Seriously.
Click to expand...
dude.. they are trying to charge me $1700 per computer which are Pentium 3.2, 512, 6200. thats it ;/

Flowgaming, go with Sonicwall Brand Hardware Firewall. Very safe, content filtering, and
did I metion, very secure. My school uses it and it works well. I'm getting it for my network also.
Click to expand...
Can I have some more info on this?
 
what kind of hardware fire wall would you suggest?

I'm not sure. I have one generic one provided when I got there. I can't touch it or the network admins uptown get annoyed.


That is what I am thinking about going with but.. was wondering if there was anything
better out there.

I've heard of Acronis... decent software. (Beat to the point by above poster)
 
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