144hz and Freesync : Never do without it again

ManofGod

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I have 3 computers, one with an RX 580 and MSI 1080p 144hz 27 inch monitor, a 5700 with an MSI 1440p 144 hz monitor and a Vega 56 on a 4k 43 inch Samsung tv that I use as a monitor. Let me tell you, playing Shadow of The Tomb Raider on the Freesync monitors is smooth and fast but, on the 4k monitor without Freesync, tearing and slow, and VSync does not help much.

Now mind you, I understand that if I were to stay above 60fps on that 4k monitor, I would have no issues. However, none of the video cards out there really do that at 4k and therefore, I can really feel the difference well gaming. It is not a placebo, I have the 4k and the 1440p monitors and machines not far from each other. Older games at 4k or things like Doom with Vulkan work great with it but, freesync is really a must.

Basically, once you experience it, going back is not going to happen. (Mind you, I have referring to a high refresh rate monitor with free sync which helps.
 

Meeho

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What about playing on 144 Hz w/o Freesync? Is tearing noticeable?
 

jeremyshaw

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What about playing on 144 Hz w/o Freesync? Is tearing noticeable?
I've done that route. 1080p144 for years (back in the 3D Vision era), no Gsync. Sometime this year, I got a Gsync 1440p144/165. Gsync makes a world of difference in tearing, stuttering, general smoothness.

I don't see why I put up with all of that nonsense for so long. Took me a while to even notice, too. But when I pulled the old 1080p144 out of storage to use again, I realized right quick that I could never go back. Reminds me a lot of when I upgraded to a SSD. I couldn't really notice the difference after upgrading, but after a couple of months, I tried going back to a fast HDD. The difference was so great, that I never even considered HDDs for a primary drive again. Finally ditched my last internal HDD in favor of a 2TB ssd, though that move was noticeable, since I deal with a lot of video editing at the moment.
 

Meeho

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I've done that route. 1080p144 for years (back in the 3D Vision era), no Gsync. Sometime this year, I got a Gsync 1440p144/165. Gsync makes a world of difference in tearing, stuttering, general smoothness.

I don't see how I ever put up with all of that nonsense before.
That's interesting to hear, since I haven't observed such problems on a 100 Hz CRT. I wonder if it's an LCD thing or a game specific thing.
 

viivo

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I wish FreeSync/FreeSync 2 worked properly on my Samsung C32HG70. The flickering is extremely distracting and ruins the experience. I know it's the monitor because it happened on my previous NVIDIA GPU and now a 5700 XT.

If only there were strict qualifications in order to certify a monitor as supporting FreeSync. Better yet, get rid of FS and GSync and support one Variable Refresh Rate standard.


Fun Fact about my monitor: It offers two FreeSync modes - Standard and Ultimate. Standard has a range of 120-144Hz. Why - might anyone with a brainstem ask - does it exist? Because it doesn't exhibit any of the visual artifacts of "Ultimate" and Samsung, being fully aware of how buggy the latter is, needed a mode that works without issue despite the range making it completely useless.
 
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IdiotInCharge

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That's interesting to hear, since I haven't observed such problems on a 100 Hz CRT. I wonder if it's an LCD thing or a game specific thing.
Perhaps you were already blind? :D

What VRR does cannot be accomplished on CRTs- CRTs need a constant scan rate, which is why we have refresh rates measured in Hertz to begin with. With CRTs you had no choice: you had tearing, or you had to use V-Sync, both of which caused the same problems then that they do today.

With DP (and more recent versions of HDMI), video data is no longer a data 'signal', it's now a packetized stream, and with electronics on both ends to support (G-Sync modules and Freesync ASICs), the monitor can now wait for new frames for an amount of time that is largely determined by how often the LCD panel itself needs to be refreshed.

And note that you can get tearing anywhere- Linux distros are just now really getting a handle on it, some better than others, and tearing on the desktop is a real thing.
 

Meeho

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Perhaps you were already blind? :D

What VRR does cannot be accomplished on CRTs- CRTs need a constant scan rate, which is why we have refresh rates measured in Hertz to begin with. With CRTs you had no choice: you had tearing, or you had to use V-Sync, both of which caused the same problems then that they do today.

With DP (and more recent versions of HDMI), video data is no longer a data 'signal', it's now a packetized stream, and with electronics on both ends to support (G-Sync modules and Freesync ASICs), the monitor can now wait for new frames for an amount of time that is largely determined by how often the LCD panel itself needs to be refreshed.

And note that you can get tearing anywhere- Linux distros are just now really getting a handle on it, some better than others, and tearing on the desktop is a real thing.
I wish I was blind that way so I wouldn't have to suffer an LCD image :)

Actually, VRR works on CRTs too. Older models moreso than newer ones.

Maybe it's the higher motion resolution, much faster "pixel" response time, in combination with high refresh that makes tearing a lesser problem compared to LCDs.
 

IdiotInCharge

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Actually, VRR works on CRTs too. Older models moreso than newer ones.
That's not VRR ;)

I get what you're saying and don't disagree- but VRR isn't that. I would define VRR, that is, Variable Refresh Rate, as a system where the monitor holds the current frame a variable amount of time for a new frame.

CRTs must operate on a timed signal, thus, they are incapable of VRR.
 

ManofGod

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I wish FreeSync/FreeSync 2 worked properly on my Samsung C32HG70. The flickering is extremely distracting and ruins the experience. I know it's the monitor because it happened on my previous NVIDIA GPU and now a 5700 XT.

If only there were strict qualifications in order to certify a monitor as supporting FreeSync. Better yet, get rid of FS and GSync and support one Variable Refresh Rate standard.


Fun Fact about my monitor: It offers two FreeSync modes - Standard and Ultimate. Standard has a range of 120-144Hz. Why - might anyone with a brainstem ask - does it exist? Because it doesn't exhibit any of the visual artifacts of "Ultimate" and Samsung, being fully aware of how buggy the latter is, needed a mode that works without issue despite the range making it completely useless.
Did you ever get ahold of Samsung to fix the flickering issues? Just because they exist on that monitor does not mean it is not defective.

Edit: I looked and that is a high end monitor which we lead me to believe that you are dealing with a hardware defect.
 
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ManofGod

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He asked, I answered. No one made a debate out of it except you just now.
He did not ask what you said so please leave the vs crap out of this thread, thanks.

Edit: Actually, I re read what you quoted and there is no question there at all so once again, please leave that stuff out of my thread.
 

tungt88

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Microcenter, good monitors and a good price.
Fair enough -- I love my local Micro Center; got my LG32UD59-B monitor from there for a good price 1.5 months ago.
What's (mildly) annoying me about them atm, is that they don't have any custom AIB RX 5700 XT cards in stock yet (should be in-store in a few weeks, from what I understand).
I know nothing about MSI monitor quality, so I can't comment on that.
 

NKD

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I wish FreeSync/FreeSync 2 worked properly on my Samsung C32HG70. The flickering is extremely distracting and ruins the experience. I know it's the monitor because it happened on my previous NVIDIA GPU and now a 5700 XT.

If only there were strict qualifications in order to certify a monitor as supporting FreeSync. Better yet, get rid of FS and GSync and support one Variable Refresh Rate standard.


Fun Fact about my monitor: It offers two FreeSync modes - Standard and Ultimate. Standard has a range of 120-144Hz. Why - might anyone with a brainstem ask - does it exist? Because it doesn't exhibit any of the visual artifacts of "Ultimate" and Samsung, being fully aware of how buggy the latter is, needed a mode that works without issue despite the range making it completely useless.
Have you updated the firmware on the monitor? I had this monitor until I broke it during the move, (sad day, lol). I had updated the firmware and had 0 issues with flickering. Might want to try that if you haven't. Sadly the firmware was hard to find and was available on the korean website and on U.S website it was for the 27 inch model despite being under the 32 inch model download. Korean website had it correct though, not sure about now. THis was 6 months back. I actually absolutely loved the monitor, it was smooth after the firmware update.
 

NKD

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Never, ever to without Freesync, ever again. :) Things are just so much smoother with it that I could never go back.

Edit: Also, I have had to issues with the 2 MSI monitors I have with it

this: https://www.microcenter.com/product...hz-hdmi-dp-freesync-curved-led-gaming-monitor

And this: https://www.microcenter.com/product...vi-hdmi-dp-freesync-curved-gaming-led-monitor
I am eyeing two msi monitors myself. For productivity and gaming, so want something bigger. Its the cheapest I can find anywhere. With the other 5% off with microcenter card it will be 350 out the door. I know it doesn't have the best stand and what not but panel wise its very similar to the ones selling for 650+. I just can't believe the price on this thing. It is 430-450 everywhere else though. Or the alienware gsync monitor but I don't want to be tied to gsync becuase I want the option to switching GPUs anytime i want so leaning heavily towards freesync. Since I am GPU whore and I have no loyalties with any company.

https://www.microcenter.com/product...vi-hdmi-dp-freesync-curved-gaming-led-monitor

https://www.microcenter.com/product/604028/optix-315-wqhd-144hz-hdmi-dp-freesync-gaming-led-monitor
 
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ManofGod

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If you're in the market for a 144hz Freesync monitor at a good price but have a Nvidia card (10 series or above) this monitor will work under G-Sync compatibility mode. I currently use it with my 2070 & its awesome, highly recommended!

Remember to pick up a Display Port Cable, it wont work through HDMI.

https://www.microcenter.com/product...qhd-144hz-dp-hdmi-freesync-gaming-led-monitor
Yeah, sure, two months later. ;) Oh well, that one was not on sale when I bought the 27 inch model, bummer.
 

Krenum

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Yeah, sure, two months later. ;) Oh well, that one was not on sale when I bought the 27 inch model, bummer.
Yeah I know....I paid $349 + 3 years extended warranty for mine :/. Bought it back in March.
 

MacLeod

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I agree that it's hard to go back. I went from 144 Hz to a 70 Hz, 32" gorgeous VA panel. As much as I liked the image quality and screen real estate, I really missed the smoothness of 144. I recently bought a 27", 1080 244 Hz Acer Predator with G-Sync and don't regret it in the least!! That 32" screen was nice and that 3000:1 contrast ratio was nice but it just can't compare to ~200 fps with G-Sync! Whole other world.
 

LigTasm

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I've never been able to go back to 60hz after I bought the Asus glossy 23" 120hz screen in 2009. I can't even remember the name of it but it was fantastic. Freesync/Gsync take it to a whole new level.
 

ManofGod

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I've never been able to go back to 60hz after I bought the Asus glossy 23" 120hz screen in 2009. I can't even remember the name of it but it was fantastic. Freesync/Gsync take it to a whole new level.
I have a 43 inch 4k Samsung tv that I bought about 2 years ago that I use as a monitor and it is nice. However, I usually game on my 27 inch 144hz monitors now, because 60hz just seems so much slower now. (This is even if the game does not go to super high fps, because my 144hz monitors are also Freesync, where the tv is not.)
 

Archaea

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I don’t even think 144hz is the thing

It’s Freesync or Gsync that’s the thing for me.

I had a Fury X and got used to Freesync on my HP Omen 32 monitor. (75hz)

I upgraded to a 1080ti for a LAN and it pretty much ruined the LAN for me. Though the 1080TI could keep the HP Omen maxed out at 75hz, the whole game playing experience felt jerky and clunky compared to what I was used to previous with Freesync and NOT maxed FPS. So much so that I bought an overpriced Gsync monitor post LAN to match to the Nvidia card.

(This was before nVidia world with Freesync)

I don’t care if It’s Freesync or Gsync (they are both great) Just don’t take it away. In fact the lower the frame rate — the more I care — but it’s easily detectable to me, whereas 75hz Freesync on the Omen vs 144hz Freesync on an Acer was not easily detectable to me. (Compared the Omen to a 144hz 35” monitor for a couple weeks and then later to my current 34” Alienware 120hz Gsync monitor)

Freesync or Gsync is one of those things that seems like an absolute terrible loss when you take it away, but is only mildly recognizable when you are first exposed.
 
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MacLeod

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I don’t even think 144hz is the thing

It’s Freesync or Gsync that’s the thing for me.

I had a Fury X and got used to Freesync on my HP Omen 32 monitor. (75hz)

I upgraded to a 1080ti for a LAN and it pretty much ruined the LAN for me. Though the 1080TI could keep the HP Omen maxed out at 75hz, the whole game playing experience felt jerky and clunky compared to what I was used to previous with Freesync and NOT maxed FPS. So much so that I bought an overpriced Gsync monitor post LAN to match to the Nvidia card.

(This was before nVidia world with Freesync)

I don’t care if It’s Freesync or Gsync (they are both great) Just don’t take it away. In fact the lower the frame rate — the more I care — but it’s easily detectable to me, whereas 75hz Freesync on the Omen vs 144hz Freesync on an Acer was not easily detectable to me. (Compared the Omen to a 144hz 35” monitor for a couple weeks and then later to my current 34” Alienware 120hz Gsync monitor)

Freesync or Gsync is one of those things that seems like an absolute terrible loss when you take it away, but is only mildly recognizable when you are first exposed.
I thought so at first too which is why I went with the 32" HP because it had Freesync and I figured 70 Hz would be enough along with that. But it wasn't long before I really wanted 144+ fps again.

Don't get me wrong, 70 fps with Freesync looked just fine but for my eyes, 144+ with adaptive sync looks SO much better and I can track and follow things better. I immediately began playing fast paced shooters better when I went to 240 Hz. In fact I finally got my first solo win on Fortnite the weekend I got my Acer. If that's not proof positive, I don't know what is lol
 

ccityinstaller

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I am only on 1440p/120 since that is the max my Sammy gaming tv supports (for high refresh) but with FreeSync with a very wide range. 120hz is super smooth, I can imagine that 144hz is even better!
 

cjcox

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Persistence and ghosting ftw! (CRT)

Ok, maybe we don't like the ghosting, but otherwise, it really made things look nice.
 

MacLeod

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I am only on 1440p/120 since that is the max my Sammy gaming tv supports (for high refresh) but with FreeSync with a very wide range. 120hz is super smooth, I can imagine that 144hz is even better!
120-144 Hz might not be that big a change. I know going from 70-144 is absolutely night and day different. 144-240, not so much. I still have my 144 Hz monitor hooked up to my kid's PC and going from it to my beloved Acer isn't as drastic a difference. I definitely see a difference but it's not huge and I only really notice it on fast paces shooters.

120 Hz with FreeSync is still gonna be pretty sweet and it might not be worth jumping to 144.
 

cybereality

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120hz is super smooth, I can imagine that 144hz is even better!
It is better, but not drastically so. I went from 120 to 144 to 166 to 240, and the gains become less as you get higher.

My main machine is 166Hz, and I feel like I can tell the difference from 144Hz, but with G-Sync/FreeSync on it's very close in experience.

On a well configured system with adaptive sync, honestly 90fps is good enough for new games.

For old games, of course, you can run at the full speed (up to say around 240fps) but on most newer titles you will hit a bottleneck before you get that high.
 

ccityinstaller

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120-144 Hz might not be that big a change. I know going from 70-144 is absolutely night and day different. 144-240, not so much. I still have my 144 Hz monitor hooked up to my kid's PC and going from it to my beloved Acer isn't as drastic a difference. I definitely see a difference but it's not huge and I only really notice it on fast paces shooters.

120 Hz with FreeSync is still gonna be pretty sweet and it might not be worth jumping to 144.
Yeah, I didn't really mean to imply that I was planning on moving to 144hz anytime soon. When you have 65" of screen space coupled with a great FS implementation and a 20-120hz FS window it makes it hard to go back to a "gaming" monitor that is so much smaller in size.

I know everyone doesn't have the space to game on a 65" set but if you do it's a game changer.
 

ManofGod

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Yeah, I didn't really mean to imply that I was planning on moving to 144hz anytime soon. When you have 65" of screen space coupled with a great FS implementation and a 20-120hz FS window it makes it hard to go back to a "gaming" monitor that is so much smaller in size.

I know everyone doesn't have the space to game on a 65" set but if you do it's a game changer.
I cannot say I entirely agree with a 65 inch gaming screen is a game changer, at least not entirely one way. It is definitely a really great option though, with freesync enabled, anyways. That is probably why, although I like the 43 inch Samsung TV I use as a computer monitor, 4k, it has no Freesync or high refresh rate so it is just not the same.
 

ccityinstaller

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I cannot say I entirely agree with a 65 inch gaming screen is a game changer, at least not entirely one way. It is definitely a really great option though, with freesync enabled, anyways. That is probably why, although I like the 43 inch Samsung TV I use as a computer monitor, 4k, it has no Freesync or high refresh rate so it is just not the same.
From an immersion factor the only thing better would be custom triple curved LCDs or VR...Having a game take up your entire field of view is amazing.

Keep in mind that I sit a good bit away, probably a good 8-9ft when I am gaming (since 1440p slows you to sit farther way without having to squint like native 4k60 does.
 

ManofGod

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From an immersion factor the only thing better would be custom triple curved LCDs or VR...Having a game take up your entire field of view is amazing.

Keep in mind that I sit a good bit away, probably a good 8-9ft when I am gaming (since 1440p slows you to sit farther way without having to squint like native 4k60 does.
I probably would be impressed and enjoy it. That said, using a 27 inch 1440p 144hz Freesync monitor about 2 feet or less away means I am focused and sufficiently immersed in the game, unless my cat walks in front of the monitor and me, like she is prone to do. :D
 

IdiotInCharge

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whereas 75hz Freesync on the Omen vs 144hz Freesync on an Acer was not easily detectable to me
I'll say that it does depend on what you're doing and how fast the panel is with respect to the color transitions for your use, that being scene dependent as well as game dependent.

I don't score much higher with 144Hz vs. 60Hz in say the Battlefield games, on foot it's not a huge difference- but flying?

Night and day ;)
 

tangoseal

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Basically, once you experience it, going back is not going to happen. (Mind you, I have referring to a high refresh rate monitor with free sync which helps.
I have a 5700xt on a 144 1080p and freesync and a 2080ti driving acer predators in 100hz and 240hz gsync.

Nothing beats synchronized refresh rates period!
 
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