New Mass Effect Game

Expedition 33 won game of the year with 30 team members who actually knew what they were doing and focused on making a good game instead of delivering a message. They spent 10 million dollars and created the game in 2.5 years.

EA spent 400 million dollars over a 10 year production period with a team of 200 to 400 team members to create Veilguard. They chased ESG funds and hired people based on their sexual preferences. They clearly had a management problem and a talent problem. The woke content made the game sales tank but the mismanagement is what killed the studio and they wouldn't have made big profits even if the game was good and sold well which it wasn't and didn't.

After loosing hundreds of millions of dollars the team was going to join the 50 or so developers that had been working on the rebooted and mismanaged mass effect game that had been in production for 6 years already. It was obvious that the new owners of EA were going to get rid of Bioware. I can't believe it went on as long as it did. EA were determined to burn through every IP and every dollar they had access to. It was a sinking ship and selling EA at it's current value was the best choice they could have made in my opinion.
 
Last edited:
Bioware closing is good news. They've been dead to me since Andromeda. I hope more western studios keep closing, esp. ones that are hijacking beloved IPs and driving them into the ground as Bioware did with Andromeda and certainly whatever ME they were working on next. The original ME team is long gone I'm sure and would rather the original writers work on a sequel if they can again.

Mchart said:
This was 100% cancelled because BioWare likely had to show EA a progress milestone and showed them mass effect veilguard. I say good, give the IP to some smaller developer that can put out something decent. Also, who gives a crap about their “history” when none of the people that worked on their good games was even there anymore.
Click to expand...

This, I would trust ME with any other non-western or Indy studio that isn't ran by their HR team or third party consulting agencies.
 
T4rd said:
Bioware closing is good news. They've been dead to me since Andromeda. I hope more western studios keep closing, esp. ones that are hijacking beloved IPs and driving them into the ground as Bioware did with Andromeda and certainly whatever ME they were working on next. The original ME team is long gone I'm sure and would rather the original writers work on a sequel if they can again.



This, I would trust ME with any other non-western or Indy studio that isn't ran by their HR team or third party consulting agencies.
Click to expand...
The entire gaming industry needs another crash and reset. These $300 million AAA slop is sustainable.
 
I know everyone hates on Andromeda, but I did enjoy the addition of dash and dodge to combat. I also thought the expansion of combos they did was good too. Too bad everything else around it sucked.
That said. I think the writing was on the wall for this.
Was anyone left from actual "Bioware" that played a meaningful part for their original reputation?
 
ThatITGuy said:
I know everyone hates on Andromeda, but I did enjoy the addition of dash and dodge to combat. I also thought the expansion of combos they did was good too. Too bad everything else around it sucked.
Click to expand...
Andromeda wasn't that bad. Sure, it had a couple woke things in it which make you scratch your head, but overall it's not a bad game. I don't think going open world really helped it, as that defeats the sense of urgency its trying to create with the story. But its biggest problem is that the protagonists are so watered down compared to Shepard. Shepard's actions are bold and memorable, pretty much regardless of the options you choose. Meanwhile Ryder has a sarcastic, discount Ryan Reynolds mode and the rest of the dialog is plain and forgettable. You get too many choices for the dialog wheel which all sound the same.
 
Dan_D said:
Andromeda wasn't that bad. Sure, it had a couple woke things in it which make you scratch your head, but overall it's not a bad game. I don't think going open world really helped it, as that defeats the sense of urgency its trying to create with the story. But its biggest problem is that the protagonists are so watered down compared to Shepard. Shepard's actions are bold and memorable, pretty much regardless of the options you choose. Meanwhile Ryder has a sarcastic, discount Ryan Reynolds mode and the rest of the dialog is plain and forgettable. You get too many choices for the dialog wheel which all sound the same.
Click to expand...
lack of companion control was bad compared to the OT, as well. But yea story and overall gameplay was a huge step back from previous entries
 
Dan_D said:
Andromeda wasn't that bad. Sure, it had a couple woke things in it which make you scratch your head, but overall it's not a bad game. I don't think going open world really helped it, as that defeats the sense of urgency its trying to create with the story. But its biggest problem is that the protagonists are so watered down compared to Shepard. Shepard's actions are bold and memorable, pretty much regardless of the options you choose. Meanwhile Ryder has a sarcastic, discount Ryan Reynolds mode and the rest of the dialog is plain and forgettable. You get too many choices for the dialog wheel which all sound the same.
Click to expand...
Well, there was the face thing which was impossible to ignore. And the dialog got pretty cringy. You could tell it was a completely different development team. Maybe it was just me, but the open world-ness made the game feel more like an Ubislop game. Cool at first to drive around in vehicles, but most of it felt like a bunch of filler to waste your time.

I waited and got Andromeda during an Origin fire sale for $4. It was totally worth a playthrough for that asking price.

Did a 100% playthrough of the OT via Legendary Edition in 2024 and, oh man, did I enjoy that.
 
Last edited:
Absalom said:
Well, there was the face thing which was impossible to ignore. And the dialog got pretty cringy. You could tell it was a completely different development team. Maybe it was just me, but the open world-ness made the game feel more like an Ubislop game. Cool at first to drive around in vehicles, but most of it felt like a bunch of filler to waste your time.

I waited and got Andromeda during an Origin fire sale for $4. It was totally worth a playthrough for that asking price.
Click to expand...
It was a different team. It was the team that made ME3's multiplayer. The original trilogy team was put on Anthem, a game BioWare had no business being involved with. As for the facial animations, that's due to the rushed development of the game itself. They fixed all of that now, and it probably has fewer animation errors and clipping issues than the trilogy games do at this point. I agree that the open world design didn't do it any favors. The game takes roughly 120 hours to complete and very little of that has any substance. Furthermore, it suffers from the same problem almost all open worlds suffer from and that's breaking the sense of urgency the story tries to convey. The game essentially tells you that you have to do all the side quests to increase colony viability, but doing so means fetch quests, running around and doing things that distract you from the main story line.

By the time you get back to the main story, you basically forget what your doing and why. Still, despite my complaints with the game its still a decent game. It just falls well short of the trilogy in that none of it is really all that memorable. None of your interrupt actions are as good as the ones in ME2 and 3, you really don't have renegade choices so you aren't allowed to be an asshole. It feels like a pale imitation of the trilogy games. The Ryder siblings being the most milk toast and bland protagonists of all time doesn't help with that problem either.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
Leaked ME5 trailer.

https://reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/1xclmpu/mass_effect_universe_trailer/
https://www.thegamer.com/cancelled-mass-effect-trailer-universe-leak-bioware-closure/

Spy thriller, the main character is like an N7 James Bond.
Click to expand...

FearTheCow said:
I think cancelling the game and shutting the studio down was the right thing to do.
Click to expand...
The people in the reddit thread are practically sucking the devs lady dicks. Honestly, I don't totally hate the concept, but I didn't think that trailer looked very good at all. Nothing is all that detailed, the mouth animations are bad and way out of sync with the voice work. Liara is weirdly old looking and flat chested. This is lore breaking given she had pretty large cans in the third game and we've seen other 1,000+ year old Asari. They don't visibly age all that much. Her mother certainly didn't.

What those idiots also fail to realize is that this was probably an N7 day trailer and represents most of what they had. The game was still in early development after six years. That means there isn't enough work done to go into full production. They were likely still conceptualizing and prototyping the gameplay when BioWare was shut down.
 
Last edited:
Mad Maxx said:
Mass Effect: The John Wick Edition

I wanted Shepard's return and a continuation of the story post-Reaper War. This trailer signals something entirely different.
Click to expand...
Shepard's return wasn't impossible, but BioWare always said it didn't want to canonize specific endings. As it is, Synthesis makes that difficult as its incompatible with anything else. So Shepard's return would have had to be a convoluted one. Frankly, it wouldn't have mattered with the writing staff they have now. Shepard would have been as non-offensive and milk toast as the Ryder siblings in Andromeda at best.
 
tygeezy said:
According to Chris Avellone, Bioware producers would go through candidates LinkdIn to try and confirm their political affiliation. This game was going to 100 % suck just like every game released from them for the last 15 years thanks to bringing in inferior talent ideologues.

https://x.com/ChrisAvellone/status/2113057702729703933?s=20
Click to expand...
I've assumed this has been common practice among all large western studios. They love diversity in every way except thought or morals.
 
polonyc2 said:
the leaked trailer didn't look terrible...had more of a Deus Ex vibe than ME
Click to expand...
I didn't think it was horrid, but I also didn't think it looked all that great graphically. Animations are pretty mid, facial animations / sync with speech is bad, etc. Also, Liara looks fucking old and Asari don't age that much even after 1,000 years.
 
Dan_D said:
I didn't think it was horrid, but I also didn't think it looked all that great graphically. Animations are pretty mid, facial animations / sync with speech is bad, etc. Also, Liara looks fucking old and Asari don't age that much even after 1,000 years.
Click to expand...
Look, she’s not allowed to look hot and have her previously sized rack. Can’t have the troglodyte gamers objectifying her.

Or whatever.

The original assets where all Unreal Engine of various versions, so I would expect that straight loading them into UE5 would not entail any loss of fidelity, so I wonder if it’s a completely rebuilt/resculpted model and new texture.
 
LodeRunner said:
Look, she’s not allowed to look hot and have her previously sized rack. Can’t have the troglodyte gamers objectifying her.

Or whatever.

The original assets where all Unreal Engine of various versions, so I would expect that straight loading them into UE5 would not entail any loss of fidelity, so I wonder if it’s a completely rebuilt/resculpted model and new texture.
Click to expand...
Oh, they would and should do a new model for her for a UE5 based game. The polygon count, geometric detail, and texture quality can all be massively improved from the originals. That said, I don't think they did a good job with her here and its a sign the people working on it either don't know about the established lore or don't care. Either is typically a bad sign. Hell I'm surprised to see a male protagonist in the video. That alone makes me question its authenticity.

The reality is though, this was probably a proof of concept trailer. I'd also bet its probably somewhat old or put together in a hurry. The reason BioWare got shut down is because there wasn't anything worth saving. Even if the rabid fans on Reddit and YouTube want to say how much they love that trailer, and that its a shame, etc., the fact is that BioWare has done nothing but fail post Dragon Age Inquisition. Six years of pre-production tells you all that you need to know about what they had or rather, what they didn't have. Hate the Saudi's all you want, but as a business decision, it makes sense to cancel it, and close BioWare.
 
tygeezy said:
According to Chris Avellone, Bioware producers would go through candidates LinkdIn to try and confirm their political affiliation. This game was going to 100 % suck just like every game released from them for the last 15 years thanks to bringing in inferior talent ideologues.

https://x.com/ChrisAvellone/status/2113057702729703933?s=20
Click to expand...
Why do people do this to themselves? To their companies?
So much extra effort to higher worse employees.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
Leaked ME5 trailer.

https://reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/1xclmpu/mass_effect_universe_trailer/
https://www.thegamer.com/cancelled-mass-effect-trailer-universe-leak-bioware-closure/

Spy thriller, the main character is like an N7 James Bond.
Click to expand...

I don't think it looked horrible, but trailers don't do much for me anymore regardless. The problem with endless sequels is it does make it hard to continue with a good story, especially without pissing on the endings of the previous games. People would want Shepard back, but you're not going to get such an epic story for a follow up or new trilogy. But if it was more of a spy thriller it certainly would be a step back in terms of scale. But it is hard to redo the "save the galaxy" thing again without it feeling like a repeat. Though I'm sure someone could make something decent. I'm still not sure I trust modern Bioware.

I don't mind a Mass Effect style game with the same core mechanics and aspects, but building a new universe from the ground up and not calling it Mass Effect might be for the best. We'll see how Exodus does.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
Why do people do this to themselves? To their companies?
So much extra effort to higher worse employees.
Click to expand...
Because they don't care about the games. The real question is why do their corporate overlords allow it given that they are the ones losing $100s of millions in some cases with these poor hirings.
 
Comixbooks said:
What a Shame it's about as bad as ID Software layoffs or Ashes of Creation scandal earlier this year.
Click to expand...
It's really not. I'm not sure how much clearer this can be stated: After six years of active development, the game was still in "early development". That means, there wasn't enough to go to full production and even if there was, the powers that be didn't see something worth saving and worth taking into production. Given BioWare's recent history, do you really think that an ME5 built by some of the same people would have been worth waiting for? I seriously doubt it. We already know who one of the writers is and she's known for making everything about gender identity and sexual orientation.

Don't let that trailer fool you. That's probably all they had and its just smoke and mirrors. It was probably for an upcoming N7 day or something.
 
Last edited:
Pez said:
I loved ME (not Andro, though). The games had their issues, but I loved the characters and the overall story. It's a shame what happened to Bioware (and the industry as a whole).


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOWrTNazZxM
Click to expand...

If the guy in the video is correct, then it is a shame this was cancelled. However, I remain skeptical. BioWare has over a decade of missteps that make it hard to believe they were finally going to get something right. Ultimately, we will probably never know for sure which way this was going to go.
 
A few tweaks would've made Andromeda a pretty good game. Sad to see that certain devs can put so much passion in it and you can see it but then there's other areas that just drag the game down.
 
Dan_D said:
If the guy in the video is correct, then it is a shame this was cancelled. However, I remain skeptical
Click to expand...
Of course the people involved say it is the bestest ever, they always do. Seems to me they were trying to make a greatest hits. Superficially imitating the OT.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dan_D
like this
M76 said:
Of course the people involved say it is the bestest ever, they always do. Seems to me they were trying to make a greatest hits. Superficially imitating the OT.
Click to expand...
Yeah, its important to note the obvious bias there, but he does at least seem to understand what the problems were over at BioWare and EA.
 
Dan_D said:
It's really not. I'm not sure how much clearer this can be stated: After six years of active development, the game was still in "early development". That means, there wasn't enough to go to full production and even if there was, the powers that be didn't see something worth saving and worth taking into production. Given BioWare's recent history, do you really think that an ME5 built by some of the same people would have been worth waiting for? I seriously doubt it. We already know who one of the writers is and she's known for making everything about gender identity and sexual orientation.

Don't let that trailer fool you. That's probably all they had and its just smoke and mirrors. It was probably for an upcoming N7 day or something.
Click to expand...

To be fair they only started shifting full development in 2024 after Vielguard. They didn't do much of anything prior. Still, that is at least some time for planning & pre-production and 2 years to get something started. Seems like they were far behind without much so they got shit canned. Veilguard looked so shitty though that I am really skeptical of anything ME from Bioware. The dialogue in some of those scenes was horrifically bad. ME did had some stuff like the gay pilot in ME3, but nothing as in your face as Veilguard.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dan_D
like this
ThatITGuy said:
Not gonna lie, I was surprised the trailer had a somewhat normal looking guy as the protagonist.
Click to expand...
I was shocked by that too. My guess is that they tried to pivot with ME5 after Veilguard failed so miserably. That probably set them back. It may not have required a full restart on the game's development, but it could have been a factor. The Dantics video claims that was in-engine footage and that it was a custom character. I don't know if I believe that, but I could see them pulling something like that when leaking this trailer.
 
Dan_D said:
I was shocked by that too. My guess is that they tried to pivot with ME5 after Veilguard failed so miserably. That probably set them back. It may not have required a full restart on the game's development, but it could have been a factor. The Dantics video claims that was in-engine footage and that it was a custom character. I don't know if I believe that, but I could see them pulling something like that when leaking this trailer.
Click to expand...
I mean, it shouldn’t have been hard to pump something out with everything already tooled into frostbite with Andromeda. Just need to hone the scope down and focus on what made earlier BioWare games so good. That’s why the fact that they didn’t have more done since 2020 is just silly to me and it’s obvious the management at BioWare was just bad. A team of 20 something people over five years should have been able to produce a decent amount of game given all the hard work was already done with andromeda getting mass effect into that engine.
 
Mchart said:
I mean, it shouldn’t have been hard to pump something out with everything already tooled into frostbite with Andromeda. Just need to hone the scope down and focus on what made earlier BioWare games so good.
Click to expand...
It's really not that easy. I'm sure they wanted to make a better looking game than Andromeda, make it larger in scope, probably do the world design better. Who knows if it would have been open world or not? It's difficult to tell but game design, player tastes and market conditions have evolved a lot in the decade since Andromeda came out.

Granted, Andromeda actually still looks really good, but that's because I think the game industry has stagnated graphically for some time now. Hell, its even regressed in a lot of newer AAA titles.
 
Dan_D said:
It's really not that easy. I'm sure they wanted to make a better looking game than Andromeda, make it larger in scope, probably do the world design better. Who knows if it would have been open world or not? It's difficult to tell but game design, player tastes and market conditions have evolved a lot in the decade since Andromeda came out.

Granted, Andromeda actually still looks really good, but that's because I think the game industry has stagnated graphically for some time now. Hell, its even regressed in a lot of newer AAA titles.
Click to expand...
Well, that’s why they have poor management. AAA devs need to stop wasting so much on graphics when Andromeda still looks great and would run great on PS5/series x. If you just focus on the narrative, good level design, and memorable characters and just use all the work you already invested from a title like Andromeda, putting out a decent game shouldn’t be some massive undertaking.
 
Mchart said:
Well, that’s why they have poor management. AAA devs need to stop wasting so much on graphics when Andromeda still looks great and would run great on PS5/series x. If you just focus on the narrative, good level design, and memorable characters and just use all the work you already invested from a title like Andromeda, putting out a decent game shouldn’t be some massive undertaking.
Click to expand...
The hell with that. I want to see the graphics envelope pushed. I don't see why both things can't be done at the same time frankly.
 
Dan_D said:
The hell with that. I want to see the graphics envelope pushed. I don't see why both things can't be done at the same time frankly.
Click to expand...
I don’t really care anymore. A good game is a good game, and I just want it to run 4k/60 without hitching.
 
Mchart said:
I mean, it shouldn’t have been hard to pump something out with everything already tooled into frostbite with Andromeda. Just need to hone the scope down and focus on what made earlier BioWare games so good. That’s why the fact that they didn’t have more done since 2020 is just silly to me and it’s obvious the management at BioWare was just bad. A team of 20 something people over five years should have been able to produce a decent amount of game given all the hard work was already done with andromeda getting mass effect into that engine.
Click to expand...
Based on job postings, it was strongly hinted that they were moving back to Unreal for it, so it would have been a UE5 title. IIRC, the tooling for Frostbite made level design and revision take much longer because you had to rebuild the map for each change, and those maps were not small. Unlike UE where you can load into it without the baked lighting and see most of your changes in pretty short order. Reminds me of making maps for Quake3 actually, always having to rebuild the BSP just to see a minor geometry change; lighting compute time was so bad that you'd always render it fullbright and only re-render lighting when you had to. One got pretty good at judging the lighting setup because otherwise you were looking at possibly several hours to recompile the lightmap when you inevitably had to make a change or swapped a texture/shader.

Old Katoku article that goes into some of the technical issues with making Andromeda: https://kotaku.com/the-story-behind-mass-effect-andromedas-troubled-five-1795886428 This doesn't excuse the long history of mismanagement, but explains some of the production and functional issues with ME:A overall.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top