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DLSS 5.0

HQyXOIDWkAEoUT8.jpeg

Nice!
 
I find it funny that it makes characters look older across the board. Ah well, hopefully they'll get it right soon enough.
 
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arestavo said:
I find it funny that it makes characters look older across the board. Ah well, hopefully they'll get it right soon enough.
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If NV is going to try to foist this on us the least they could do is let up pick what sort of adjustments we want. DLSS5 needs a retro Tomb Raider cheat code mode :D
 
Captain Newmackwa said:
DLSS 5 here looks like it alters ambient occlusion for the most part and environment shadow intensity depending on the light source angle. The tint or hue also changes a bit.
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That's actually been one of the things I've been most interested in based on what we've seen so far is it looks like it handles AO and self shadowing much better. In the first shot the two things most noticeable to me, even if not the most different are her hair and her hand. The hair looks MUCH more correct, like the strands are properly shadowing neighbors, and her hand has way more depth, and a much better appearance of being in front of her body. That's the part that has me more interested/excited than faces. I think faces get shown off because the changes can be super dramatic there, which can be a bad thing depending on how it goes. However the improved shadows, that looks great. Not sure about "half the FPS" great but it's a noticeable improvement.

Now what I REALLY want to do is slap it on Everquest Legends. Not because I think it would be useful or look good, but because I think it would be hilarious to see what it does with potato graphics like that :D
 
Captain Newmackwa said:
DLSS 5 here looks like it alters ambient occlusion for the most part and environment shadow intensity depending on the light source angle. The tint or hue also changes a bit.
Click to expand...
Well I'd say most people have been using significantly stronger settings to show a massive difference, I have been using settings subtle settings ~1.02 strength it scales from 0.0-2.0. 2.0 is a dramatic change, but also causes more errors with the final image which leads to the "AI slop" effect.

Here are some images with slightly stronger strength ~1.05, the selfie one is at 1.15.

https://imgico.com/c/A3SFgaD
https://imgico.com/c/7RqsYda
https://imgico.com/c/MsYc043

Edit: Here is one image at 2.0 Strength (not recommended)

https://imgico.com/c/OeTlRfX

I think the sweet spot is somewhere between 1.0-1.2. Personally I prefer to drop the tone change down to around 0.2 so you don't lose the games original feel.
 
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LittleBuddy said:
Well I'd say most people have been using significantly stronger settings to show a massive difference, I have been using settings subtle settings ~1.02 strength it scales from 0.0-2.0. 2.0 is a dramatic change, but also causes more errors with the final image which leads to the "AI slop" effect.

Here are some images with slightly stronger strength ~1.05, the selfie one is at 1.15.

https://imgico.com/c/A3SFgaD
https://imgico.com/c/7RqsYda
https://imgico.com/c/MsYc043

Edit: Here is one image at 2.0 Strength (not recommended)

https://imgico.com/c/OeTlRfX

I think the sweet spot is somewhere between 1.0-1.2. Personally I prefer to drop the tone change down to around 0.2 so you don't lose the games original feel.
Click to expand...

Yeah holy crap 2.0 strength looks insanely bad, borderline nightmare fuel. Unlike some people who are just shitposting memes you are providing some useful insight into DLSS5.
 
MistaSparkul said:
Yeah holy crap 2.0 strength looks insanely bad, borderline nightmare fuel. Unlike some people who are just shitposting memes you are providing some useful insight into DLSS5.
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Some people have a fear/hate of everything A.I. and will try and push false narratives and misrepresent things because their cogntive powers are impaired by bias.
Eg. posting DLSS5 videos where settings have been twaked beyond reason or dumb emes trying to sell that as a fact.
But if anything the last 48 hours on the internet shows that these people are a minority that can be ignored due to them being a crying bunch of dishonest Dunning-Kruger's.
 
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littlegreenmenfromhome said:
Some people have a fear/hate of everything A.I. and will try and push false narratives and misrepresent things because their cogntive powers are impaired by bias.
Eg. posting DLSS5 videos where settings have been twaked beyond reason or dumb emes trying to sell that as a fact.
But if anything the last 48 hours on the internet shows that these people are a minoiry that can be ingored due to them being a crying bunch of dishonest Dunning-Kruger's.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The internet tried to run with the story of how bad Cloud looks in FF7 Rebirth with DLSS5.

1788035053685.png


But it turns out if you don't use dumb settings then it isn't that terrible at all. Shader injector mod might be a better option for this game overall, but still.

1788035036281.png


In another hate post using an example with Tifa, you can clearly see the Intensity slider was cranked up to max lmao.

1788037340471.png
 
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I'm just gonna cross my fingers and hope DLSS5 lets Indy studios kinda sorta almost keep up with AAA on graphics so the big budget studios will have to actually make a good game. Games could be way better if the budget stayed the same, the budget for graphics got cut in half, and the other half got spent on gameplay, storyline, etc. Probably wishful thinking because they'll try to just halve the graphics budget and pocket the rest, but maybe a few indy blockbusters will reshape PC gaming.
 
zandor said:
I'm just gonna cross my fingers and hope DLSS5 lets Indy studios kinda sorta almost keep up with AAA on graphics so the big budget studios will have to actually make a good game. Games could be way better if the budget stayed the same, the budget for graphics got cut in half, and the other half got spent on gameplay, storyline, etc. Probably wishful thinking because they'll try to just halve the graphics budget and pocket the rest, but maybe a few indy blockbusters will reshape PC gaming.
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Well some of it is budgets need to come down. When they are sky high it creates issues where even a game that seems like a success isn't because it doesn't make enough money. Like a game that sells 2 million copies and gets good reviews should be a success right? If a couple million people paid full price and enjoyed something that is doing well. However if that is the case entirely depends on how much was spent. Let's say the game sells for $60, and the studio sees $40 of that on ever sale on average (how much they actually see depends on what channel something is sold in). That's $80 million in revenue, of course that is pre-tax and yes big companies DO pay taxes, even if not as much as they should. If the game was developed and marketed on a modest budget, say $10 million, that's a great success. Even after taxes that's plenty of money made. However if the game cost $100 million that's a huge failure, even with a long tail of discount sales it might never make enough to make up the initial spend.

That's also why big titles are often more generic and take few risks: They need to appeal to as many people as possible. They can't be niche, and they can't afford to take risks. If everyone doesn't love it, they are in deep shit. We need game budgets to get back under control, particularly if we want to see studios not beholden to giants like EA.
 
zandor said:
I'm just gonna cross my fingers and hope DLSS5 lets Indy studios kinda sorta almost keep up with AAA on graphics so the big budget studios will have to actually make a good game. Games could be way better if the budget stayed the same, the budget for graphics got cut in half, and the other half got spent on gameplay, storyline, etc. Probably wishful thinking because they'll try to just halve the graphics budget and pocket the rest, but maybe a few indy blockbusters will reshape PC gaming.
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Optomistic at best but one can hope still. I won't hold my breath for it though considering the way things have been for this long.
 
The best thing that will come out of DLSS is probably intellectual property holders inability to f*** up remasters because you can just DLSS the originals making an extremely limited need for them to touch them at all when you can just go patch it yourself.

Screenshot_20260830-115734.png
 
Captain Newmackwa said:
The KCD2 developer said the same thing. From his testing, the DLSS 5 output was closer to his artistic vision.
Click to expand...
Yup, that "artistic intent" turned out to be a real "foot-in-mouth" syndrome.

So on the one hand we have the artist saying "This is what I tried to achieve"
On the other hand we have the "A.I slop" forums users.

I go with the developers, not the muppets.
 
Captain Newmackwa said:
The KCD2 developer said the same thing. From his testing, the DLSS 5 output was closer to his artistic vision.
Click to expand...
I'm not really against it, i think people on the internet just have bad taste. Also, some folks at nvidia when they announced it as well. If its subtle like in this developer's example, its fine. I'm still not convinced I'd ever turn it on but it looks good in the environment. It's a mixed bag for me so far, a lot of the mod examples look terrible. But yeah, if the underlying game looks good, and it's a bit of extra polish as a toggle, go nuts i guess.
 
littlegreenmenfromhome said:
Yup, that "artistic intent" turned out to be a real "foot-in-mouth" syndrome.

So on the one hand we have the artist saying "This is what I tried to achieve"
On the other hand we have the "A.I slop" forums users.

I go with the developers, not the muppets.
Click to expand...

It's even more hilarious that the trolls are telling the actual art director that his own artistic vision is wrong. Preserving the real artistic vision actually means using DLSS5, the irony.
 
MistaSparkul said:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy4inwWE2M8
Click to expand...

To me that looks Damn Impressive! I also like seeing it in motion which in this case looks good from what I can tell. Not only is it an option, but the extent of the modification is totally user controlled. Looking forward on it coming out. Overall gaming experience, a balance of visuals, performance, reaction, game itself. This is another tool to extract more from a game potentially.
 
The more concerning thing to me is the ~50% performance loss there seems to be in a lot of examples. Hopefully that's just because it's based on a leaked DLL and not optimized for each game.
 
MavericK said:
The more concerning thing to me is the ~50% performance loss there seems to be in a lot of examples. Hopefully that's just because it's based on a leaked DLL and not optimized for each game.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, I think that's likely the cost, at least at 4k. We'll see but the DLL for it is BIG implying it is a pretty hefty neural matrix that the card has to run. Since it runs on the final image, it is running at output rez (after upscaling), not at render rez. So it hits hard. I'm not saying it is impossible they'll figure out ways to speed it up, or maybe integrate it with the upscaling but it may just be a pretty costly tech.
 
Sycraft said:
Unfortunately, I think that's likely the cost, at least at 4k. We'll see but the DLL for it is BIG implying it is a pretty hefty neural matrix that the card has to run. Since it runs on the final image, it is running at output rez (after upscaling), not at render rez. So it hits hard. I'm not saying it is impossible they'll figure out ways to speed it up, or maybe integrate it with the upscaling but it may just be a pretty costly tech.
Click to expand...
They did say in the original videos that it had to run on 2x 5090s, so....yeah.

I mean, if that's the case then it's sort of DOA, at least for this GPU generation. We already struggle to get high framerates with top-end cards in a lot of AAA games today, removing 50% performance is not something I'm going to do in like 99% of cases.
 
MavericK said:
They did say in the original videos that it had to run on 2x 5090s, so....yeah.

I mean, if that's the case then it's sort of DOA, at least for this GPU generation. We already struggle to get high framerates with top-end cards in a lot of AAA games today, removing 50% performance is not something I'm going to do in like 99% of cases.
Click to expand...
I doubt it will reduce performance by 50% at launch. There is upscaling built into the dll. The problem is the way the current "mod" works is by injecting it through DLSS, so the model is redrawing a full-res frame. In the official release I expect it to redraw the frame at the base resolution then upscale. So the performance would be drastically different.

Even currently it isn't 50% performance hit on a 5090, its around 35%-40%. I'd assume it will be a 15%-20% performance hit when it releases.
 
In some cases I think DLSS 5. looks great, in others not so much. I guess we will have to see how it is implemented on a game by game basis before making judgment in it. Perhaps there will be a slider in game to lower it if the developer goes full ham?
 
LittleBuddy said:
I doubt it will reduce performance by 50% at launch. There is upscaling built into the dll. The problem is the way the current "mod" works is by injecting it through DLSS, so the model is redrawing a full-res frame. In the official release I expect it to redraw the frame at the base resolution then upscale. So the performance would be drastically different.

Even currently it isn't 50% performance hit on a 5090, its around 35%-40%. I'd assume it will be a 15%-20% performance hit when it releases.
Click to expand...
This, plus devs will choose what it applies to in the scene unlike the full scene redo we're seeing with this shoehorned nonfinal dll. It won't need to do as much work once it's integrated.
 
GoldenTiger said:
This, plus devs will choose what it applies to in the scene unlike the full scene redo we're seeing with this shoehorned nonfinal dll. It won't need to do as much work once it's integrated.
Click to expand...
I think the shoehorned dll is quite characther heavy and leaving everything else a bit alone, leaving the environment a bit alone.

We can see flower-foliage not getting the cinematic treatement right now it seem to me.

It also does not ahve the semantic buffer that describe material, it work great on easy to guess stuff like humans.
 
LukeTbk said:
I think the shoehorned dll is quite characther heavy and leaving everything else a bit alone, leaving the environment a bit alone.
Click to expand...

This DLL is from the NBA 2027 game - so it would make sense, given there isn't much else besides people (players/crowd) + the court in that game
 
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tunatime said:
I think we are going to get to the point you need two gps one does the rendering the other the AI stuff.
Click to expand...
Chiplet design maybe, instead of 2 distinct gpu.

But having a small Groq (or Taalas for AMD) dedicaded SRAM portion for the gpu could work here, those model are really small, in 4bit quant DLSS 5 would be 75MB, on upcoming node that could be a managable size (or they can stream layers to the sram instead of the whole model a bit like a MoE model to keep it small).

DLSS (upscaling and the final NR pass) is so predictable frame per frame, running on its own compiled for it Groq would make a lot of sense and you free up tensor core to do larger model, not always every frame type of model.

A lot of element on a GPU are not needed here and that would not be an efficiciant way to do it, let alone the added latency.

And once you shift neural rendering pass to a fixed function the amount you can ask it to do in 1/60 of a second is a complete different tier than what we have now (or you can run game at 480 fps with it enabled)
 
Decko said:
Wouldn't shock me if we had cards just designed for AI workloads that run in parallel. Just big boy NPUs i guess?
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For video games, chance that they will put the NPU on the discrete GPU themselve (either like tensor core now or a chiplet), it is some amount of data that would need to go back and forth hundreds of time per second and that how they will do it for console SOC anyway.

littlegreenmenfromhome said:
I run the Witcher 3 at 4K DLSS Quality with EVERYTHING maxed (even 8xAA for HairWorks) at 75-80 FPS on a RTX 4090, so I think you are mistaken...
Click to expand...
The very limited current version of DLSS5 over it could push that fps under 40...
 
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