Gideon
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
- Messages
- 3,567
50th anniversary edition should have had a better cooler hands down.
You will get no argument out of me on that.
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50th anniversary edition should have had a better cooler hands down.
I have no issue with the blower style cooler. Once big Navi or NVidia true next gen comes out , the card will be put into a HTPC where the blower style works perfect for me.
Do agree that the AIB solutions will most likely have much better cooling solutions.
They suck when the cooler that they ship all cards of a release is as bad as the one on the 5700 / 5700 XT. Not only is their blower notably worse than some of their more terrible recent examples in terms of cooling, it's extremely loud too!
You don't even get the option to trade one for the other, after you don't get the option to get a better cooler period.
Most likely...as all they have to do to do better..is to add 4 washers
Stock curves are aggressive, AMD probably has to do this for a reason to accommodate worst environments, or they get throttling epidemic in tropicalistan, then AMD suxx more again etc.
To be clear, that AMD offered a blower cooler isn't really a problem. It's that you can't not buy it, and that it's a terrible blower cooler- compared to other AMD releases, let alone some of Nvidia's better (and likely more expensive) blowers.
If there was a two-fan open-air option that at least brought the decibels down and got the GPU even close to what it is capable of with a higher power target the market perception would be quite different.
They keep going in and out of stock, so I dont think market perception is bad.
I think most of the public could give a shit less what type of fan they get on the card.
Your looking at it from the enthusiast side which is quite different then how the general public looks at tech. Most of them dont know anything more about the card then whats printed on the box.
But I am not.
I own many Nvidia cards and have only used nvidia exclusively for the last 7 years in my main gaming rig... as I speak I have an Acer x34 and an EVGA RTX2080. I have several EVGA gpus laying around. I am not a fanboy of anything, I am a grown adult who works hard for his toys. Obvious is obvious and if you can not see it, it is because you are a snowflake unwilling to crawl out from your safety rock.
Secondly, without an retort from you, your opinion of me means nothing. You bailed out of a valid attempt to rebuttal my comments, but instead you choose to hide from the truth and put the messenger on ignore... we all know shooting the messenger is defense mechanism, as you are coming to terms with reality.
So WHAT did I suggest/say that angered you so much? …that AMD is now the premium brand?
AMD's mainstream offerings:
-7nm
-GDDR6 448 GB/s
-PCIe 4.0
-RDNA (Brand new gaming architecture)
View attachment 174685
AMD simply outclasses... Nvidia's offerings.
That is the way I see it, because I am building two x570 rigs soon and want the latest tech in my gaming rig. And an overpriced burnt-out CAD/Pro card isn't what Gamer's are demanding, or want. (Hence the Radeon Vii going EOL). They want a gpu meant for gamers.
Many of the people I work with are also building new rigs. They all still competitively play old FPS games, on 7 year old 1080p Intel rigs (mostly). (My RTX is powered by my Devil's Canyon, so...). But my friends and acquaintances don't have time to fussle over hardware anymore... and simply rely on the techies in the group to direct them. We just want to play out games and our wives understand a new $3k rig (for the career dad), when you work hard and all the kids have $1k phones, so... time to upgrade.
RDNA all the way.
It makes sense in any situation given what we know now today and what Navi is doing to it's competition. And as such, nobody I know/talked to on my floor has an issue dropping in big navi when that hits and fending little sis into another gaming rig.
ed: You People may get as angry as you want, but you will still be gaming on RDNA next year..
But I am not.
I own many Nvidia cards and have only used nvidia exclusively for the last 7 years in my main gaming rig... as I speak I have an Acer x34 and an EVGA RTX2080. I have several EVGA gpus laying around. I am not a fanboy of anything, I am a grown adult who works hard for his toys. Obvious is obvious and if you can not see it, it is because you are a snowflake unwilling to crawl out from your safety rock.
Secondly, without an retort from you, your opinion of me means nothing. You bailed out of a valid attempt to rebuttal my comments, but instead you choose to hide from the truth and put the messenger on ignore... we all know shooting the messenger is defense mechanism, as you are coming to terms with reality.
So WHAT did I suggest/say that angered you so much? …that AMD is now the premium brand?
AMD's mainstream offerings:
-7nm
-GDDR6 448 GB/s
-PCIe 4.0
-RDNA (Brand new gaming architecture)
View attachment 174685
AMD simply outclasses... Nvidia's offerings.
That is the way I see it, because I am building two x570 rigs soon and want the latest tech in my gaming rig. And an overpriced burnt-out CAD/Pro card isn't what Gamer's are demanding, or want. (Hence the Radeon Vii going EOL). They want a gpu meant for gamers.
Many of the people I work with are also building new rigs. They all still competitively play old FPS games, on 7 year old 1080p Intel rigs (mostly). (My RTX is powered by my Devil's Canyon, so...). But my friends and acquaintances don't have time to fussle over hardware anymore... and simply rely on the techies in the group to direct them. We just want to play out games and our wives understand a new $3k rig (for the career dad), when you work hard and all the kids have $1k phones, so... time to upgrade.
RDNA all the way.
It makes sense in any situation given what we know now today and what Navi is doing to it's competition. And as such, nobody I know/talked to on my floor has an issue dropping in big navi when that hits and fending little sis into another gaming rig.
ed: You People may get as angry as you want, but you will still be gaming on RDNA next year..
Are you an advertising bot or something? Because nearly none of what you say makes sense. AMD's latest and greatest Navi cards barely compete with the bottom of NVIDIA's product stack. The RTX 2060 Super and RTX 2070, are the bottom or near the bottom of the RTX ladder. The following cards AMD has no answer for:
RTX 2070 Super
RTX 2080
RTX 2080 Super (7/23/19)
RTX 2080 Ti
TITAN RTX
The cards above simply beat AMD from a performance standpoint. They also include ray tracing in hardware and AMD does not have an answer for that. AMD even had to cut prices before launch because NVIDIA's timing on its super cards put them in a lurch and forced AMD's stack down a peg price wise. So, AMD is far from the premium brand. Gamers and Prosumers that can afford premium graphics cards aren't even looking at Navi right now. Perhaps the architecture has legs, but right now, AMD has nothing to compete past the lower to mid-range.
Lets go over your list shall we?
AMD's mainstream offerings:
-7nm
-GDDR6 448 GB/s
-PCIe 4.0
-RDNA (Brand new gaming architecture)
So, tell me again how AMD outclasses NVIDIA's offerings. Tell me how AMD has risen to a premium brand for graphics cards in the gaming market?
- 7nm means nothing when NVIDIA's 12nm process built parts are more power efficient. The TDP's on the Navi cards are all higher than their NVIDIA counterparts. Next?
- GDDR6 448 GB/s. Its interesting you bring this up when NVIDIA's offerings have upwards of 616GB/s of bandwidth. The RTX 2060 Super has 448GB/s of bandwidth, matching NVIDIA's flagship. This is a card near the bottom of the rung in NVIDIA's product stack with a mere 192bit memory bus. But hey let's move on. Your bound to be right about something eventually. Right? Well, not so fast.
- PCIe 4.0. Show me a point in history where the bus speed increase from one PCIe generation to the next brought anything to the table in its first generation. I'll wait. The fact is, PCIe 2.0 came out and graphics cards still performed just as well at PCIe 2.0 as they did at 1.0. Keep in mind that countless tests and articles have been done restricting the PCIe lanes of GPU's to see how they perform in games. Spoiler Alert: It doesn't usually matter much. Going from PCIe 4.0 is a logical step, I'd agree. However, no Navi card is fast enough to make use of the bus. Even an RTX 2080 Ti wouldn't be better off as a PCIe 4.0 card. Right now the only place you will see PCIe 4.0 making a difference is in storage performance. Even then, that's going to be on benchmarks. I've used a PCIe 4.0 SSD and I can't tell the difference just using the system between it and the PCIe 3.0 devices in the other test machines. Next.
- RDNA (Brand new gaming architecture) Beyond the marketing slide decks (which I have BTW), what exactly is this supposed to mean? This is basically part of a marketing campaign. Yes, the architecture is new but it was already deficient in two key areas when it hit the ground. 1.) Efficiency. Again, higher TDP's than NVIDIA's offerings. 2.) No RTX in hardware. Game developers have started embracing this feature and its seen by many as a major milestone in image quality for games. AMD has no answer for this and it wasn't in the RDNA architecture and it would take some doing to add it. It wouldn't be RDNA anymore, but rather a refresh of it at the very least.
Note: the RTX2060 Super has a 256bit bus.
I wonder why no one has brought up that Navi is better simply because nvidia is evil
They did not unlock optimal power states for the card, you need to edit BIOS for the model, which was only done recently.
Below is the result, so the card is quite capable.
View attachment 174270
Others are finding similar success with edits.
edit: 5700 series are reaching 2000-2050mhz and 5700xt 2150-2200mhz.
Another big problem for the 5700 lineup is the last option on the survey..... Many potential buyers already broke down and bought something with similar performance. AMDs response to RTX is nearly a year late....
AMD launched a new series of GPU and immediately cuts high end 10 series or mid to high end 20 series card owners from it's potential customer list. They have zero chance of getting these sales unless they manage to get their next gen out before Nvidia's.
Lots of people I know have skipped RTX and are hanging on to much older cards then you think. Most people wont spend past 300 bucks on a card.
Lots of people I know wont even think about buying AMD, what's your point? Lots of people do a lots of things.
Lots of people I know have skipped RTX and are hanging on to much older cards then you think. Most people wont spend past 300 bucks on a card.
Lots of people I know have skipped RTX and are hanging on to much older cards then you think. Most people won't spend past 300 bucks on a card.
How many people will take a gamble on editing the bios (and voiding their warranty) and adding aftermarket cooling which adds another $100 in cost for a decent block just to reach parity with a stock 2070S in one game? Show me pubg, Apex legends, r6 Siege and fortnite results with 1% frames if you want to talk of equaling nVidia. All these canned benchmarks for games nobody plays means nothing. Your proposition of picking a modded 5700xt with expensive aftermarket watercooling just to equal a stock 2070S is really stupid and almost troll worthy.
Edit: Went back and read previous posts and I see amenx beat me to calling out this guys dumb suggestion.
best to wait for third party cards - and you are going to do better in most games, compared to similarly priced competition
We can't really be sure that the current price delta will hold between both lines with the 5700s receiving third-party coolers given how low-rent the OEM blower is.
If you want better value, keep it air cooled - best to wait for third party cards - and you are going to do better in most games, compared to similarly priced competition. In case you are amused with pushing this card further, it suprisingly is an option, and you can spend the difference between it and 2700S on better cooling instead.
I'd buy it if I was buying now, but I have a better card already.
Why would someone be stupid enough to buy the 5700 XT and spend an extra $100+ on it just to match the 2070S in ONE game (which is all you have shown it can do with the heavy modifications + WC OC) and still lack RTX. Again, you provide shit advice. If you go back and look at that Toms Graph, the 2070S on stock NVIDIA cooling gained around 7-8 fps with the OC they used without ANY mods and the 5700XT with a bios mod + water cooling managed to gain 10-12 fps. Yeah really great value there buddy.
Not to mention the first part of your statement is blatantly false as you don't do "better in most games" with 5700XT against a 2070S, rather it falls behind by a decently large margin. Even if you used an AIB card, it wouldn't achieve the same results as a WC + bios edited card that Toms showed.
P.S. Games that people actually play everyday by the millions:
View attachment 175035
View attachment 175036
Sorry but AMD's latest marvel still can't keep up with 3 year old Pascal in games that matter.
The 50 Anniversary should have never existed and was a cash grab.
First of all I don't see any RTX titles on that list above. Another point is that not everyone cares about RTX. Maybe in 5 years. I have owned 2x 2070s (At different times) and never even used RTX. Its a niche market at this point due to the performance impact being so large. I mean, I get you hate AMD. But Navi is far from bad as you paint the picture. The card should have been in the hands of AIBs to make custom cards at DAY 1 with the current prices. The 50 Anniversary should have never existed and was a cash grab.
Great, I am glad you love RTX. I would rather have more frames than ray tracing. I am sure at least 50% of the gaming community would agree. I really don't see anyone touting DLSS around here anymore. BTW... I am not an AMD fanboy. Thanks
You know, I get tired of those Nvidia fans too. They both drive me nuts.
I'm also curious what AIB's can do in their non-reference designs. At one point, I wouldn't have considered such cards worth while, but these days there can be quite a bit of difference in VRM's etc.
I like ray tracing but not DLSS as I think tensor cores were a mistake to include in a consumer card and I'm sure Ampere will rectify that. But as for your "rather have more frames" statement, in an SP game who cares? Do you see any appreciable difference in an SP game over 60 fps? Certainly not the 50% of gamers you're touting.
With regard to your bolded statement, if you're the same guy who mods AT forums, then I can see why because you guys ban anyone over there that says anything positive about NVIDIA and contrary to the status quo of AMD. Very slanted and biased forums and why I never went back.
To be clear, the reference PCB seems to be exceedingly well built- to the tune of stably handling +50% power. It's just going nowhere with that stock cooler.
And I also want to expound on the point you bring up, in that non-reference designs can likely get even more out of the GPU.
AMD likely did leave ~50% of the performance potential on the table. I can't even begin to reasonably speculate why they'd do that.
if you're the same guy who mods AT forums, then I can see why because you guys ban anyone over there that says anything positive about NVIDIA and contrary to the status quo of AMD. Very slanted and biased forums and why I never went back.