Playstation 5 Detail Rumor

Saying "no it can't do 4k60" shows that all that has been said here entered on one ear and went down the other.

Again :
It will always depend on graphical fidelity, and what the developer considers as important regarding computing budget.
In general for most types of games developers feel that instead of 60+fps 30fps and more effects are the way to go since they can sell screenshots easier than they can sell input lag and the like.
Even with a 1080ti worth of power most AAA developers would try for 30fps and even more effects, and if given a good enough hardware checkerboard solution you bet your ass that they would use it in order to invest those computing resources in something they would feel adds more value to the game.

Game development is always a balancing act in that regards, similarly to why we don't use ray tracing in current games, sure we could play Ray traced quake 3, but we can also play Battlefield instead with those resources and it's known what has been the public's top choice.

That announcement about gpu accelerated Ray tracing for gaming will be interesting if it ever pans out since, again, historically it has been better to get good enough rasterization and invest the computing budget on everything else.
 
Revdarian said:
Saying "no it can't do 4k60" shows that all that has been said here entered on one ear and went down the other.

Again :
It will always depend on graphical fidelity, and what the developer considers as important regarding computing budget.
In general for most types of games developers feel that instead of 60+fps 30fps and more effects are the way to go since they can sell screenshots easier than they can sell input lag and the like.
Even with a 1080ti worth of power most AAA developers would try for 30fps and even more effects, and if given a good enough hardware checkerboard solution you bet your ass that they would use it in order to invest those computing resources in something they would feel adds more value to the game.

Game development is always a balancing act in that regards, similarly to why we don't use ray tracing in current games, sure we could play Ray traced quake 3, but we can also play Battlefield instead with those resources and it's known what has been the public's top choice.

That announcement about gpu accelerated Ray tracing for gaming will be interesting if it ever pans out since, again, historically it has been better to get good enough rasterization and invest the computing budget on everything else.
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Good Lord you people.

1. Did not say it cannot do 4k

2. Did not say it can't take advantage of VRR.
I said about vrr that I believe to my knowledge that you need to be within x frames for it to work.

Ato be clear, is that if developers are not taking advantage of existing refresh rates, on consoles, what is the point in talking about 120hz in a thread about consoles. Yes your right about both the tv tech and the consoles ability to support the format. What does it matter if developers do not use it, in a thread about consoles!

I'm done, again but firmly this time. There is no point because we are talking past each other.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
My reading comprehension is just fine. There is nothing "Exotic" about a custom proprietary chip which is what it appears you are talking about.
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lol... Except my post read "custom exotic hardware"...
Your reply "I think the word you were looking for there was "Custom hardware"... now if you wish to debate whether the term "exotic" (uniquely new or experimental nature) in reference to the console hardware is not an accurate generalization of the hardware used in each console back then ... i have time.
 
cptnjarhead said:
lol... Except my post read "custom exotic hardware"...
Your reply "I think the word you were looking for there was "Custom hardware"... now if you wish to debate whether the term "exotic" (uniquely new or experimental nature) in reference to the console hardware is not an accurate generalization of the hardware used in each console back then ... i have time.
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Speaking of reading comprehension..go back and actually read what I wrote. I clearly defined both, as exotic would only apply in the mind of anyone rational to the various experimental pieces of hardware of those generations, Ergo things like the Motion controls. A custom piece of silicon for the Cpu/Gpu hasn't been considered "Exotic" ever. Unless you want to try and make the argument that every custom piece of silicon cpu/gpu in the world is exotic, which you would just be arguing with yourself because that argument is just stupid on its face. There are literally millions of electronics that use a custom chip..This is nothing new now and it wasn't new then either. Manufacturers have been requesting and using custom chips for numerous decades.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Speaking of reading comprehension..go back and actually read what I wrote. I clearly defined both, as exotic would only apply in the mind of anyone rational to the various experimental pieces of hardware of those generations, Ergo things like the Motion controls. A custom piece of silicon for the Cpu/Gpu hasn't been considered "Exotic" ever. Unless you want to try and make the argument that every custom piece of silicon cpu/gpu in the world is exotic, which you would just be arguing with yourself because that argument is just stupid on its face. There are literally millions of electronics that use a custom chip..This is nothing new now and it wasn't new then either. Manufacturers have been requesting and using custom chips for numerous decades.
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Man you are easy.. .lol
 
polonyc2 said:
PS5 quick turnaround has to be in response to Xbox X right?...so now Microsoft will release another X?...then Sony will respond again...
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Sony isn't really in competition with the Xbox. PS4 is outselling Xbox 3:1 globally, it's only close in North America, but even then, Xbox is running 3rd in a 3 man race.
 
odditory said:
Nope, not legit 4K60 without smoke and mirrors checkerboarding/uprezzing. Can't blame em - most console kids are braindead and believe the marketing bulletpoints without caring much about the asterisk next to the 4K*.

And the PS5 won't be able to do real 4K60 without compromises either, because you need a 1080Ti to do 4K60 at the highest graphical settings, and the PS5's APU will be nowhere near 1080Ti performance. Hell, not even AMD's next flagship discrete GPU will likely beat a 1080Ti.

So that will mean more compromises and either 4K60 at Low Settings with low polys, or 4K30. But at least PS5 will be the first console to do no-compromise 1080p60 at Ultra settings (the Xbox One X cannot).

I'll still buy a PS5 to play Bloodborne 2 or whatever FROM calls their upcoming PS5 exclusive, but dedicated console gamers are kidding themselves believing this gen or nextgen consoles are anywhere near no-bullshit 4K60.
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Funny, because I could swear Wipeout Omega on PS4 Pro runs at full 4k/60hz with no checkerboarding! :) Seriously, it's not hard to run at 4k/60 with current hardware, at least on some games. It's a CHOICE that developers have made to prioritize fancy graphics over framerate. I expect this to continue, but don't act like 4k/60hz is some huge barrier that consoles will never overcome! Not only can CURRENT consoles do it, but your comment on the performance of UNANNOUNCED hardware is just plain ignorant. You have NO CLUE what the new systems will be capable of, unless you are a developer with a dev kit, and in that case, you would be bound by NDAs. Best option you have is saying you will wait and see, or not commenting at all.
 
Aireoth said:
Good Lord you people.

1. Did not say it cannot do 4k

2. Did not say it can't take advantage of VRR.
I said about vrr that I believe to my knowledge that you need to be within x frames for it to work.

Ato be clear, is that if developers are not taking advantage of existing refresh rates, on consoles, what is the point in talking about 120hz in a thread about consoles. Yes your right about both the tv tech and the consoles ability to support the format. What does it matter if developers do not use it, in a thread about consoles!

I'm done, again but firmly this time. There is no point because we are talking past each other.
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You have said that multiple times, but we are still here reading your inane posts that have no basis in fact. Please hold by your word and keep quiet now. Thanks! (Edit: just so you know, I have no problem with you posting opinions, nor do I have problem with your posting facts, backed up with sources and links. I DO object to you posting opinions AS facts, and then attacking those who disagree with you, especially when those arguments ARE backed up by links and sources! Figure out how to contribute to a conversation constructively, instead of embarrassing yourself!)
 
jnemesh said:
Sony isn't really in competition with the Xbox. PS4 is outselling Xbox 3:1 globally, it's only close in North America, but even then, Xbox is running 3rd in a 3 man race.
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true Sony already won but I think it must irk them that the X is the most powerful console available (in terms of hardware)...I'm sure they want to take the crown back
 
Aireoth said:
Most developers do not design games to run at 60fps on consoles, pre-refresh it was 30fps at 1080p for most titles, post refresh its 30fps at 4k for most titles. This is a fact, and until developers change mindset to prioritize FPS over over graphical quality this is likely to remain true.

This is a thread about consoles, which is where my biggest bug comes from, instead of talking about consoles your rambling about TV's and HDMI 2.1, so I bring it back to consoles and the reality is they do not push 60fps at 4k in the majority of titles today, and I have no reason to believe Sony will sink the hardware investment and sell at a loss to deliver a product that can push 120fps at 4k. I could be wrong.

Buying a 4k 120hz TV at a premium for console use is currently a waste, in my opinion.

VRR is the biggest boon that HDMI 2.1 will grant to consoles.

Are you happy with my language yet? Are you willing to admit we are talking past each other and not too each other?

If you want to talk about fancy new TV's and HDMI 2.1, without it being in relation to consoles, maybe a different thread?
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No, you are still embarrassing yourself with an obvious bias against consoles and a lack of understanding about the update how that will affect things. But go ahead and keep thinking the way you are, I will be glad to call you out when the patch is released and the games are supporting over 60fps this fall.
 
jnemesh said:
No, you are still embarrassing yourself with an obvious bias against consoles and a lack of understanding about the update how that will affect things. But go ahead and keep thinking the way you are, I will be glad to call you out when the patch is released and the games are supporting over 60fps this fall.
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:rolleyes:
 
jnemesh said:
A few really good games wouldnt hurt either! :)
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Yeah, it's not as if PS4's UI was any better. At launch (I had both), it was distinctly worse in every possible way. Functionality and ease of use. Sometime before I decided to sell both systems, PS4 finally gained partial support for putting games into standby - a feature that was integral to how the Xbox one functioned (for that matter, integral to mobile consoles, like Sony's earlier PS Vita...).

The PS4 won this generation inspite of it's UI deficiencies - UI deficiencies that were obvious in light of its direct competition.
 
I'd love to be called out this Fall when some 60fps patches mysteriously start coming out because that means the console developers finally get it. Too bad there's no way that's gonna happen. Especially not for previous titles whose sales cycles have long ended. If anything developers would be doing more of that NOW for titles like Far Cry 5, Sea of Thieves, God of War, etc.
 
Domingo said:
I'd love to be called out this Fall when some 60fps patches mysteriously start coming out because that means the console developers finally get it. Too bad there's no way that's gonna happen. Especially not for previous titles whose sales cycles have long ended. If anything developers would be doing more of that NOW for titles like Far Cry 5, Sea of Thieves, God of War, etc.
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I used to think like that. But then MS patched the backward compatibility for Halo Reach from being almost unplayable to being on par or better than the 360 native hardware. Bought my brother a 4K TV for his XB1X and trying Halo 3 in 4K is something I never expected to see either. I love PCs, but what they are managing to do with consoles now is crazy. I use a TV for my PC, Xbox One S, and PS4 Pro and the visual differences aren't as dramatic as they were in the earlier generations (with the exception being WiiU/Switch of course). Its getting to the point where I decide what platform to purchase a game on is based on control preference, mod support and online services, rather than visuals.

EDIT: I should also add PSVR is really impressive for what they have pulled off compared to my Rift. If the PS4 had better touch controllers, it would really blur the lines between platforms.
 
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What I would love to hear some opinions about is since we have officially switched to x86 based videogame consoles, will all future versions of Playstation and Xbox be fully backwards compatible? I would like to think so.
 
Highly doubt a 2018 release, we would've already seen some teasers I'd imagine similar to the PS4's in early 2013. But I could definitely see it being revealed next spring with a release in fall of 2019. It was 6 years between the PS2 and PS3, and 7 years between the PS3 and PS4. If the PS5 was to release in 2019 that would be a 6 year cycle which would fall in line. It would give Sony a competitive edge over Microsoft who just released the Xbox One X late last year. Very unlikely that they'll release an Xbox One successor next year and thus give Sony about a 1 year lead.
 
exlink said:
Highly doubt a 2018 release, we would've already seen some teasers I'd imagine similar to the PS4's in early 2013. But I could definitely see it being revealed next spring with a release in fall of 2019. It was 6 years between the PS2 and PS3, and 7 years between the PS3 and PS4. If the PS5 was to release in 2019 that would be a 6 year cycle which would fall in line. It would give Sony a competitive edge over Microsoft who just released the Xbox One X late last year. Very unlikely that they'll release an Xbox One successor next year and thus give Sony about a 1 year lead.
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I would agree with the measurements between the different launches, but we have a whole different factor being the mid-life refreshed with the PS4 Pro. This November it will be 2 years since the PS4 Pro launch. And when the PS4 Pro launched, the PS4 was 2 years old. That'd be pretty crazy if we were to see new consoles/refreshes every 2 years now. Almost like Apple products. One year you have the iPhone 6, next year you have the 6S, and then the 7 a year after that. If the PS4 Pro is Sony's iPhone 6S then a PS5 could be possible next year judging by the releases thus far. Kind of hard to believe since the PS2 and PS3 had such long time-spans between them.
 
VIC-20 said:
I used to think like that. But then MS patched the backward compatibility for Halo Reach from being almost unplayable to being on par or better than the 360 native hardware. Bought my brother a 4K TV for his XB1X and trying Halo 3 in 4K is something I never expected to see either. I love PCs, but what they are managing to do with consoles now is crazy. I use a TV for my PC, Xbox One S, and PS4 Pro and the visual differences aren't as dramatic as they were in the earlier generations (with the exception being WiiU/Switch of course). Its getting to the point where I decide what platform to purchase a game on is based on control preference, mod support and online services, rather than visuals.

EDIT: I should also add PSVR is really impressive for what they have pulled off compared to my Rift. If the PS4 had better touch controllers, it would really blur the lines between platforms.
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That's only one game...and it's simply a backward compatibility patch to make it actually work. That's a far cry from patching a significant number of games to double the framerate out of the blue. Updates to the Halo Master Chief Collection only (mostly) fixed what was a failed attempt at 60fps to begin with. Older versions are still rocking 30fps.
I have everything hooked up to the same TV and I think the different between 95% of games on the consoles and PC = as big as it has ever been. 30fps with medium details and 60fps and medium/high details are pretty different IMO. The exceptions are the rare console games that run at 60fps with decent detail settings. Gears 4 on the Xbox One X and the "action" mode in Nioh are some good examples. They're few and far between, though. Both just happen to be first party titles that were designed to show off the "pro" systems, too. They're exceptions. Until we start seeing games like Far Cry, Assassin's Creed, Uncharted, Bloodborne, GTA, PUBG, Ghost Recon, etc. rocking 60fps on the consoles I'm not a believer. With Red Dead 2 being a console exclusive that seems like a perfect game for it.
 
exlink said:
Highly doubt a 2018 release, we would've already seen some teasers I'd imagine similar to the PS4's in early 2013. But I could definitely see it being revealed next spring with a release in fall of 2019. It was 6 years between the PS2 and PS3, and 7 years between the PS3 and PS4. If the PS5 was to release in 2019 that would be a 6 year cycle which would fall in line. It would give Sony a competitive edge over Microsoft who just released the Xbox One X late last year. Very unlikely that they'll release an Xbox One successor next year and thus give Sony about a 1 year lead.
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Not that I don't think your logic is spot on, but this entire article from SemiAccurate was nothing more than a pathetic attempt to pump AMD's stock from its recent low of $9.50. That is why it was trolling a '18 release along with items like '8 core Zen' and 'Navi' that would be favorable to revenues.

As a long term reader of the site I have been amused by similar periodic attempts at stock pumping.

Basically, the site owner Charlie D hates Microsoft, NVIDIA, and Intel and will take digs at them while boosting his favorite company AMD. Notice how he takes a deliberate stab against XBOX in the article. Then he uses NVIDIA in the tags.

I like Charlie and I have nothing against, wish him well.. all is fair, etc.
 
I can't imagine it would be a 2018 release. That would give the console a shelf life of only 5 years. Plus a lot of big exclusives have not yet come out. It would be awkward to release a PS5 right as those exclusives came out. Then there are a few games that have special PSVR modes like Ace Combat 7. Obviously PS5 will have VR as well, but an entirely new console would certainly stifle PSVR enhanced games. 2019 seems probable though.
 
Flogger23m said:
I can't imagine it would be a 2018 release. That would give the console a shelf life of only 5 years. Plus a lot of big exclusives have not yet come out. It would be awkward to release a PS5 right as those exclusives came out. Then there are a few games that have special PSVR modes like Ace Combat 7. Obviously PS5 will have VR as well, but an entirely new console would certainly stifle PSVR enhanced games. 2019 seems probable though.
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I don't get why everyone is dragging on this-

If Sony uses an updated AMD/AMD arch, then games will simply run faster. If it's a newer game designed to scale on the console side like they all do on the PC side, why argue over better graphics?

Hell, given the anemic rendering power in consoles to begin with, I'd think most PSVR owners would jump on a chance for more horsepower!
 
There is absolutely zero chance that PlayStation 5 is coming out this year. As already mentioned they have exclusives that are scheduled for the end of this year and no way in hell they're having a new console come out at the same time. Plus 7 nm and Navi are not even remotely close to being ready yet for mass production.
 
misterbobby said:
There is absolutely zero chance that PlayStation 5 is coming out this year. As already mentioned they have exclusives that are scheduled for the end of this year and no way in hell they're having a new console come out at the same time.
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New exclusives for a new console, yeah that's just crazy talk.

Take it from Microsoft, you can launch a new console without firstparty titles and.. oh wait.
 
misterbobby said:
There is absolutely zero chance that PlayStation 5 is coming out this year. As already mentioned they have exclusives that are scheduled for the end of this year and no way in hell they're having a new console come out at the same time. Plus 7 nm and Navi are not even remotely close to being ready yet for mass production.
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I agree with not this year but I remind you that Sony doesn't shy away from showing support all through a generation, with The Last Of Us closing the PS3 in an amazing way just a couple of months away from the PS4.
 
Domingo said:
That's only one game...and it's simply a backward compatibility patch to make it actually work. That's a far cry from patching a significant number of games to double the framerate out of the blue. Updates to the Halo Master Chief Collection only (mostly) fixed what was a failed attempt at 60fps to begin with. Older versions are still rocking 30fps.
I have everything hooked up to the same TV and I think the different between 95% of games on the consoles and PC = as big as it has ever been. 30fps with medium details and 60fps and medium/high details are pretty different IMO. The exceptions are the rare console games that run at 60fps with decent detail settings. Gears 4 on the Xbox One X and the "action" mode in Nioh are some good examples. They're few and far between, though. Both just happen to be first party titles that were designed to show off the "pro" systems, too. They're exceptions. Until we start seeing games like Far Cry, Assassin's Creed, Uncharted, Bloodborne, GTA, PUBG, Ghost Recon, etc. rocking 60fps on the consoles I'm not a believer. With Red Dead 2 being a console exclusive that seems like a perfect game for it.
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It isn't just a backward compatibility patch. The 360 was a 3 core PPC processor, the One is 2x4 Core X86. The XBox One is locally running an XBox 360 emulator and is upscaling the resolution by running a tweaked build of the game reworked by MS that gets downloaded from the store. The XB1X versions have new textures and meshes for some older titles too. If that isn't impressive as it is, I don't know what to say.

As for newer titles, 30fps isn't as noticeable to me with a controller. With a mouse, I'd agree completely. As for medium console to high/ultra on PC, sure its better. But its certainly not like the old days of watered down console only exclusives because they didn't couldn't run the large map PC games at all.

But I respect your opinion, agree to disagree and all that :)
 
Domingo said:
I'd love to be called out this Fall when some 60fps patches mysteriously start coming out because that means the console developers finally get it. Too bad there's no way that's gonna happen. Especially not for previous titles whose sales cycles have long ended. If anything developers would be doing more of that NOW for titles like Far Cry 5, Sea of Thieves, God of War, etc.
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60fps in many of these games are impossible due to the incredibly slow CPU. The Destiny 2 30fps cap on consoles was quite a major controversy.

I will say that many games on PS4 and Xbox One support native 60hz which is great. I applaud all developers that do this.
 
VIC-20 said:
It isn't just a backward compatibility patch. The 360 was a 3 core PPC processor, the One is 2x4 Core X86. The XBox One is locally running an XBox 360 emulator and is upscaling the resolution by running a tweaked build of the game reworked by MS that gets downloaded from the store. The XB1X versions have new textures and meshes for some older titles too. If that isn't impressive as it is, I don't know what to say.

As for newer titles, 30fps isn't as noticeable to me with a controller. With a mouse, I'd agree completely. As for medium console to high/ultra on PC, sure its better. But its certainly not like the old days of watered down console only exclusives because they didn't couldn't run the large map PC games at all.

But I respect your opinion, agree to disagree and all that :)
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I game at 180hz and if it is on a mouse or controller, anything under 120hz is awful.
 
VIC-20 said:
Fair enough :)
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Given that Sony has received very positive reviews for their VR, I would think they'd jump to make a high horsepower console and a higher res VR headset. Higher res headsets are on the horizon, and a dedicated consolre VR that is affordable would corner the market.
 
So long as they don't handicap it too much by clinging to pointless dead vr shit, IDC.
 
motomonkey said:
I miss typing in assembler on my C64 from the magazines....

hah! who am I kidding, that was the devil, input an entire page, miss one character, oops, start over.
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Given all this nostalgia, I remember when the internet was a great way to do reseach, rather than a minefiekd of preselected ad directed results tailored to your profile.
 
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