Microsoft to Block Non-Windows Store Apps in Windows 10?

tetris42 said:
For once, this particular Windows 10 addition is nothing to worry about and shouldn't really affect anyone.
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leezard said:
Everyone make sure and just skip over this part, its not relevant

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It's crazy how these beta and optional things are just slipped in one day as a default... The fact that they even have the option is enough of a red flag.


Shmee said:
I am fine with it for a free version of Windows. Like the upcoming cloud version, but any OS that I pay for I should be able to do whatever I want with it.
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Honestly I really want to like windows 10. There are things about it I really do love. But for every one of those things there are several that just piss me off.


Dead Parrot said:
Microsoft already limits your ability to uninstall the several Microsoft apps included with Win10 or hide the Microsoft store. This current beta option seems a logical version of extend then extinguish.
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Not only this, but even if you do uninstall the few they do allow you to get rid of, they are re-installed repeatedly. Your privacy restrictions are just "magically" reset to the default broadcast everything to everyone in the clear because.. reasons...


NeoNemesis said:
The ability to block non Windows store apps wouldn't be a bad thing from a security perspective. More control is better than less.
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I would say this is mostly true, but honestly this primarily applies to enterprise environments. I home user should be able to make that decision, for better or worse, for themselves.
 
KarsusTG said:
I would say this is mostly true, but honestly this primarily applies to enterprise environments. I home user should be able to make that decision, for better or worse, for themselves.
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I disagree with you there. You're assuming your own personal computer. What about people with family computers with children or less tech savvy adults. I could definitely see them wanting to put some sort of controls in place to prevent unauthorized installs. Correct me if I'm wrong but under the current system it's all or nothing.

I'd definitely enable this on my mothers computer.
 
NeoNemesis said:
I disagree with you there. You're assuming your own personal computer. What about people with family computers with children or less tech savvy adults. I could definitely see them wanting to put some sort of controls in place to prevent unauthorized installs. Correct me if I'm wrong but under the current system it's all or nothing.

I'd definitely enable this on my mothers computer.
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Honestly, if they are truly this bad, they should be on an LTS linux distro anyway. You will spend far far less time "fixing" the crap they got from facebook and uncle john's fw: fw: fw: emails.
 
KarsusTG said:
Honestly, if they are truly this bad, they should be on an LTS linux distro anyway. You will spend far far less time "fixing" the crap they got from facebook and uncle john's fw: fw: fw: emails.
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If they're that bad then good luck when they try to install a legitimate Windows program.
 
heatlesssun said:
If they're that bad then good luck when they try to install a legitimate Windows program.
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Non-tech savvy adults might mess up trying to install a traditional win32 or win64 program, but most are comfortable installing apps on their smartphones from the app store.

That is the experience Microsoft is trying to target.

Heck, maybe even IT departments would be cool allowing their employees to install some software again if using the Windows app store only, while still blocking off traditional software installs.
 
Hagrid said:
New is good but not when its forced on everybody.
But I guess a lot can be stripped out now.
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That is what I hate about Mozzilla. I am forced to use firefox because they made it and I am not allowed by them to use anything use because they made a web browser that 100% of the people have to use.
 
Tsumi said:
Point is, what features have been taken away that makes Windows 10 not a real desktop OS? On the contrary, things like virtual desktops have been added.
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Perfect example: Win10 updates gradually broke the ability to alt-tab out of fullscreen games. Multitasking works perfectly fine on Linux. Linux on the desktop is a real desktop OS designed for traditional multitasking. WIndows 10 is a phablet/Google chrome competitor.

So again, don't be Windows cucks. Tell Microsoft to go shove it and move to a real desktop OS. Unless you really are happy playing Microsoft's sloppy seconds console ports forever...
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Perfect example: Win10 updates gradually broke the ability to alt-tab out of fullscreen games. Multitasking works perfectly fine on Linux. Linux on the desktop is a real desktop OS designed for traditional multitasking. WIndows 10 is a phablet/Google chrome competitor.

So again, don't be Windows cucks. Tell Microsoft to go shove it and move to a real desktop OS. Unless you really are happy playing Microsoft's sloppy seconds console ports forever...
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If I wanted to multitask while gaming I do it in borderless windowed gaming mode. Especially with multiple monitors.

Edit: Also, just tested full screen alt tabbing on Starcraft 2. It works perfectly fine.
 
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Tsumi said:
If I wanted to multitask while gaming I do it in borderless windowed gaming mode. Especially with multiple monitors...
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Oh, so Microsoft is going to patch borderless mode into all of your games? Or are you really saying 'some stuff still works, just suck it up and deal with it?'

Don't be a Windows cuck, use an OS that works for you. On Linux I can alt-tab or use borderless apps, no problems at all.
 
LurkerLito said:
Yeah it's only optional till they make it forced on as the only option. Optional -> defaulted to on -> only via a work around -> forced as the only option. That is how it will work as their grip grows stronger.
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Nailed it. Lots of people suffer from Boiling Frog Syndrome.

Now with added commitment-without-question apologists!

Thats right guys, ignore facts and history and keep running towards the bright light!
 
DPI said:
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My point is Windows 10 has already done major MAJOR affronts against people who want control over their system. The slippery slope argument only works when you haven't already slid down the slope. Windows 10 has. My point is focusing on something that's optional and really should not cause problems just weakens the arguments against LEGITIMATE grievances against 10 and creates more of a boy who cried wolf situation. Windows 10 is still a nightmare for someone who wants control over their system, but not because MS has a user OPTION to disable apps from their own store. I don't see it as particularly HELPFUL either, but try to have some perspective.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Perfect example: Win10 updates gradually broke the ability to alt-tab out of fullscreen games.
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Really? Since when? Because I just did that last night with the latest production updates in a Win32 Steam game.

DeathFromBelow said:
So again, don't be Windows cucks. Tell Microsoft to go shove it and move to a real desktop OS. Unless you really are happy playing Microsoft's sloppy seconds console ports forever...
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Huh? Windows supports thousands more games than a supposedly more "real desktop" Linux. As for sloppy seconds in games, considering how late and slow many Linux games are compared to Windows, that's an odd way to put it.
 
tetris42 said:
My point is Windows 10 has already done major MAJOR affronts against people who want control over their system. The slippery slope argument only works when you haven't already slid down the slope. Windows 10 has. My point is focusing on something that's optional and really should not cause problems just weakens the arguments against LEGITIMATE grievances against 10 and creates more of a boy who cried wolf situation. Windows 10 is still a nightmare for someone who wants control over their system, but not because MS has a user OPTION to disable apps from their own store. I don't see it as particularly HELPFUL either, but try to have some perspective.
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Not all "slippery slopes" are created equal. There are reasons for forcing updates, that's kind of how an continuously updated software works. Right or wrong there's some logic to it. There's just no logic in Microsoft giving up it's tremendous advantage in desktop software by forcing across all versions of Windows the loss of countless amounts of software especially when binary backwards compatibility has been a trademark of Windows. It does however make perfect sense to lock this type of thing down in controlled environments.

And even if people who proclaim this are correct, it's not moving to Linux would solve the problem of losing access to Windows only software, it would only make the situation that you say Microsoft wants to create a real problem today when there is no problem today.
 
heatlesssun said:
Really? Since when? Because I just did that last night with the latest production updates in a Win32 Steam game.



Huh? Windows supports thousands more games than a supposedly more "real desktop" Linux. As for sloppy seconds in games, considering how late and slow many Linux games are compared to Windows, that's an odd way to put it.
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Actually Linux is more of a real desktop since Windows is a hybrid OS. But yeah it definitely supports way more games.
I have not tried games on Linux so I am not sure on the speed.
 
Hagrid said:
Actually Linux is more of a real desktop since Windows is a hybrid OS. But yeah it definitely supports way more games.
I have not tried games on Linux so I am not sure on the speed.
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Not really sure what good a "real desktop" OS is if it doesn't run tons of desktop applications that people depend on. Is Chrome "more desktop" when it's running on a Linux distro than Windows 10 simply because in Windows 10 you can use Chrome on a tablet as well? Indeed, you can do that in Linux distros, depending on how well the distro supports touch on the hardware in question.
 
heatlesssun said:
Not really sure what good a "real desktop" OS is if it doesn't run tons of desktop applications that people depend on. Is Chrome "more desktop" when it's running on a Linux distro than Windows 10 simply because in Windows 10 you can use Chrome on a tablet as well? Indeed, you can do that in Linux distros, depending on how well the distro supports touch on the hardware in question.
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Desktop OS = desktop, hybrid OS = both touch/desktop. Pretty simple. Although Linux doesn't have the bloatware and malware like Windows built in, AFAIK.
I have switched Windows to Linux on people who can barely turn a computer on, and they had no problem.
 
Hagrid said:
Desktop OS = desktop, hybrid OS = both touch/desktop. Pretty simple. Although Linux doesn't have the bloatware and malware like Windows built in, AFAIK.
I have switched Windows to Linux on people who can barely turn a computer on, and they had no problem.
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Isn't touch awareness being built into the Linux kernel these days? I've seen a number of articles about support in Linux of hybrid devices. And look at all of the 2 in 1 Windows devices launched at Mobile World Congress. The lines on this have blurred considerably and much of it is hardware driven.
 
heatlesssun said:
Isn't touch awareness being built into the Linux kernel these days? I've seen a number of articles about support in Linux of hybrid devices. And look at all of the 2 in 1 Windows devices launched at Mobile World Congress. The lines on this have blurred considerably and much of it is hardware driven.
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Linux is open source for the most part. So it's beautiful to have different distros. Most? don't have any of the crap MS does. It can be added or deleted easily.
 
Hagrid said:
Linux is open source for the most part. So it's beautiful to have different distros. Most? don't have any of the crap MS does. It can be added or deleted easily.
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But there is complexity in this beauty. Installing Linux on a certain systems like 2 in 1s involves a good deal of research. Which distro, which kernel, etc. There are images of distros that do a lot of this work but are often iffy.
 
heatlesssun said:
Not all "slippery slopes" are created equal. There are reasons for forcing updates, that's kind of how an continuously updated software works. Right or wrong there's some logic to it. There's just no logic in Microsoft giving up it's tremendous advantage in desktop software by forcing across all versions of Windows the loss of countless amounts of software especially when binary backwards compatibility has been a trademark of Windows. It does however make perfect sense to lock this type of thing down in controlled environments.

And even if people who proclaim this are correct, it's not moving to Linux would solve the problem of losing access to Windows only software, it would only make the situation that you say Microsoft wants to create a real problem today when there is no problem today.
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Oh I understand the logic, I just see that slippery slope as the #1 reason I'm staying off 10 as long as I possibly can. I've never had to give up so much control of my system in the past like that when considering an upgrade. Plus, what's the logic in removing group policies for Pro users? Like you said at least there's a certain logic to the mandatory updating.
 
tetris42 said:
Oh I understand the logic, I just see that slippery slope as the #1 reason I'm staying off 10 as long as I possibly can. I've never had to give up so much control of my system in the past like that when considering an upgrade. Plus, what's the logic in removing group policies for Pro users? Like you said at least there's a certain logic to the mandatory updating.
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And change in support of group policies for the Pro version is a gnat fart compared to all software for Windows having to come from the Windows Store. Again, even if you're correct, there's no answer for me in another OS at this time. The reason I use Windows 10 is because it runs on certain kinds of hardware that I use like tablets and 2 in 1s and is compatible with pretty much any piece software I won't to install and has incredible compatibility. Hell I installed the original Max Payne on my Surface Book over Christmas, require some patching that was also needed for Windows 7. Runs better than on the first PC a I ran it on 15 years ago.

So if Microsoft is just going toss that away, give up by FAR the biggest advantage desktop Windows has over every other desktop OS, then I guess we'll all use Linux as all of that Windows software that's the reason people like me use Windows will be useless.
 
MS takes 30% of sales through their store. They want this cut off everything, why let you install a program where they make no revenue when they can leech 30% instead? Source from MS themselves: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/publish/getting-paid-apps.

Finally for a long term goal for MS (and this is speculation), it's likely that they want to at some point force you go through the "Windows Store" to buy programs, just like Apple does. Hey,if you can't ignore the forced update that makes this change, then too bad for you. Here's how I see it as a general outline:
  • Develop New Windows OS that Data Mines (read new MS agreements @ https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-personal-data-abused/ ), "cloud services", and more importantly includes the windows store and forced OS updates to add/remove features as they see fit. - Check
  • Offer "Free" windows upgrades - Check
  • Gain Installs / market penetration for new windows OS - In Progress
  • Sell / Use mined data for marketing purposes - Check (See above)
  • Leverage "cloud" services as a vendor lock in - Future
  • Sell more "windows services" - Future
  • Use forced Os updates to lock windows program installation down to their store just like Apple does on iOS - More Distant Future
  • Utilize a 90%+ PC device install base to profit massively off the "windows store" ( http://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-wants-bigger-cut-revenue-windows-developers ) - More Distant Future
 
TordanGow said:
MS takes 30% of sales through their store. They want this cut off everything, why let you install a program where they make no revenue when they can leech 30% instead? Source from MS themselves: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/publish/getting-paid-apps.

Finally for a long term goal for MS (and this is speculation), it's likely that they want to at some point force you go through the "Windows Store" to buy programs, just like Apple does. Hey,if you can't ignore the forced update that makes this change, then too bad for you. Here's how I see it as a general outline:
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macOS has a store and allows installation of software from anywhere. So yeah, just like Apple. And a 30% of free software or business custom software? LOL!
 
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