Crowdbuying CRTs...

rabidz7

rabidz7

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 24, 2014
Messages
1,331
Would it be feasible to set up a group purchase of CRTs? Are there any plants left that could build a good, flat, aperture grille, Ultraslim CRT? If there are factories left and there is interest, I think it would be a great idea. Assuming that it would be possible to get at least 180KHz (enough for 3360x1440@120Hz or 2304x1440@120Hz), a much smaller size than old CRTs, and a choice of 27"/16:10 or 34"/ 21:9, do you think there would be enough interest to be do a run of new CRTs?
 
IF you have a Factory in China go for it =) I would of bought a Pallet of them off ebay about 8 years ago and stored them somewhere.
 
yes there would easily be demand for those screens
no you won't be able to get them
 
Well if the FW900 was like $2k back then when CRTs were still being made all over, how much would an equivalent one cost today when it's even more of a niche item and CRTs are generally not being made any more?

Now if you got your crazy SED/FED idea off the ground, I'd be very interested.
 
I dont see it ever happening

CRTs are not made anymore or the parts

you will never get 3k to 4k out of a crt it will be too small on the screen

get over CRT the next tech is 4k LED at 120hz or OLED in the next few years. Your investment will never work
you might earn more money purchasing several penny stocks vs throwing thousands into CRTs
 
no offense to the OP but your not Mr. Dell and i doubt any factory would jump to your feet and want to make a 2-4k CRT for you

'let alone a crate

besides the reason why LCD/LED technology is so popular is because manufactures can ship large screens cheap

CRT technology is dead period. Plasma was based off CRT technology and that just died. I own a 2013 model F8500 64" the last best plasma on the market has one of the best 1080p picture next to last years 2014 OLED LG 55" set. I also have a 4k LED 120hz 50" for 700.00 from vizio with edge lit tech that has almost as good black levels as my plasma.

no one is going to buy a CRT!

The next few years you will see OLED and 4k 120hz sets become common place in the market.

I still dont understand why people love the FW900 forum . Can they or have they ever owned a nice IPS LED monitor. I left the CRT market in 2007 when i acquired a 26" NEC 2690wuxi and never looked back.
I keep an old SGI aka sony G500 CRT in the basement collecting dust which i believe has gotten worse due to long term storage. Capacitors leak and CRTs pictures get messed up if moved alot. The only reason i am keeping it is to make an old windows 98 machine to play dos games or older res games one day.
Thats it
 
Last edited:
rabidz7 said:
Are there any plants left that could build a good, flat, aperture grille, Ultraslim CRT?
Click to expand...

My bet is the factory is the least of your worries for this project. You first need to acquire the knowledge of how to make the product, which would either require buying IP from a previous manufacturer, or hiring a building full of researchers to develop the knowledge. That right there is likely a multi-million dollar project. Without mass production, you would need buyers with exceptionally deep pockets (6-7 figures each) to make this happen. A billion dollar corporation like Sony isn't going to retool a factory to produce a dozen CRT's for $50k.
 
Meeho said:
We have. They are all shit in comparison.
Click to expand...

I have owned a fw900 and it sucked compared to my IPS 2690wuxi made in 2007

i can see you are a hz fanboy

thats cool i like the fact i can lug around a 27" IPS with one hand and still get ultra quality detail at 2560x1440p

I really dont miss the black levels since my plasma does that for me.

i will say my next monitor will be a real 120hz IPS , also i can not see myself playing games past 120hz anyway due to the face most games are meant to be run at 60hz. I do like the fact gsync or freesync will solve tearing issues and lag
 
Last edited:
flod said:
i doubt there are any factories left
Click to expand...

CES 2006

lol SED monitors died when other parties had patent rights back in the mid 2000s and so production ceased. Good luck trying to produce one
you will need PLENTY of money and good attorneys


Here is a post from linus tech tips forum in 2014 from a entrepreneur who had no direction or education , personally i think he is a retard trying to say OLED is inferior .. If panasonic and big companies like samsung could not produce a good OLED at a cheap price "presently" i highly doubt someone out of the woodwork can come out and just say hey guys i want to build FED for everyone that is going to be 2k, 4k or even 8k. Not going to happen

If this post is not allowed on LinusTechTips, please inform me and I will delete it or edit it so that it follows the rules. I also want to state that I am in the very, very early planning stages for SED/FED monitor production; there is about a 25% chance of me beginning SED/FED monitor production but a 75% chance that this will not happen at all. CRT fans, please don't get your hopes up for this just yet.



Introduction
I am trying to assess interest in SED and FED computer monitors because I am interested in manufacturing them. For those who do not have knowledge about these amazing displays, I will describe them in this post as well as provide links to the Wikipedia pages for both technologies.

Basic Info
SED and FED displays are monitors that have a smaller form factor than LCDs, use 7-10 times less power than LCDs, while still having all the benefits of heavy, bulky, and power-guzzling CRT monitors. CRTs, SEDs, and FEDs all function by firing electrons at red, green, and blue phosphors, which glow when struck. On CRTs, SEDs, and FEDs, a group of all three phosphor colors represents one pixel. The phosphors require no backlight to function because they illuminate brightly when hit by electrons. LCDs and OLEDs all function by electrically changing the color of the crystals or LEDs. In terms of image quality, CRT, SED, and FED displays are considered superior to LCD and OLED monitors, because CRTs, SEDs, and FEDs have higher refresh rates, the ability to natively run multiple resolutions and refresh rates without stretching, no input lag, instant response times, better black levels, better color representation, and better contrast ratios.

OLED Description
OLED displays are made of light emitting diodes that represent each pixel on the monitor. Unlike LCDs, OLEDs generate their own light and therefore do not need to be backlit.
Wikipedia page for OLEDs

LCD Description
LCDs function by changing the color of backlit liquid crystals. In LCDs, each pixel is a liquid crystal. The liquid crystals in LCDs produce no light themselves and must be backlit in order to be visible.
Wikipedia page for LCDs

CRT Description
CRT monitors use three electron guns, one for each phosphor color, which fire electrons in straight lines. Strong magnets are used to alter the course of the three electron beams so that they hit the desired phosphors. When the phosphors are struck, they illuminate and produce colored light, which is seen by the user of the monitor.
Wikipedia page for CRTs

Sed_vs_CRT.jpg
Comparison of CRT and SED/FED monitors

SED/FED Description
SED and FED monitors use thousands of microscopic electron emitters that fire electrons at each individual phosphor directly. Each phosphor is lit by its own electron emitter, which is located directly behind the phosphor, so it is not necessary to artificially bend the electron beam. When the phosphors are struck, they illuminate and produce colored light, which is seen by the user of the monitor. SED and FED monitors are extremely similar; their differences are so technical and minor that I will not be covering them here, as they are not of relevance.
Wikipedia page for SEDs
Wikipedia page for FEDs



List of planned monitors
Below are examples of monitors that I would sell if I decide to start producing SED/FED monitors. Do the prices seem fair? Would you get one of the monitors, if so, which monitor (ex. Monitor 6), which size (ex. 80cm), and which panel finish (ex. glossy) would you get? Are there any changes I could make to the monitors to make them more appealing to you?

Monitor 1
Prices: glossy/50cm=$100, matte/50cm=$100
Aspect ratio: 16:10
Panel finish: Choice of glossy or matte
Resolutions: 1536x960x90Hz, 1440x900x100Hz, 1280x800x110Hz, 1152x720x120Hz, 1024x640x135Hz, 768x480x150Hz
Response time: Instant
Input lag: Zero
Colors: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Contrast: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Viewing angle: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Inputs: Dual-Link DVI, DisplayPort 1.2a
Digital Restrictions Management: To protect personal freedoms, this monitor is 100% DRM-free and is not encumbered by HDCP or any other DRM schemes.
Other features: nVidia G-Sync, ATI FreeSync, internal USB hub, internal IEEE1394 hub, internal Light Peak hub

Monitor 2
Prices: glossy/50cm=$200, matte/50cm=$200
Aspect ratio: 16:10
Panel finish: Choice of glossy or matte
Resolutions: 1760x1100x90Hz 1680x1050x100Hz, 1600x1000x110Hz, 1536x960x120Hz, 1440x900x135Hz, 1280x800x145Hz, 1152x720x160Hz, 1024x640x180Hz, 768x480x200Hz
Response time: Instant
Input lag: Zero
Colors: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Contrast: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Viewing angle: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Inputs: Dual-Link DVI, DisplayPort 1.2a
Digital Restrictions Management: To protect personal freedoms, this monitor is 100% DRM-free and is not encumbered by HDCP or any other DRM schemes.
Other features: nVidia G-Sync, ATI FreeSync, internal USB hub, internal IEEE1394 hub, internal Light Peak hub

Monitor 3
Prices: glossy/50cm=$250, matte/50cm=$250, glossy/60cm=$300, matte/60cm=$300
Aspect ratio: 16:10
Panel finish: Choice of glossy or matte
Resolutions: 1920x1200x90Hz 1840x1150x105Hz 1760x1100x120Hz, 1680x1050x135Hz, 1600x1000x145Hz, 1536x960x160Hz, 1440x900x180Hz, 1280x800x195Hz, 1152x720x215Hz 1024x640x240Hz, 768x480x265Hz
Response time: Instant
Input lag: Zero
Colors: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Contrast: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Viewing angle: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Inputs: Dual-Link DVI, DisplayPort 1.2a
Digital Restrictions Management: To protect personal freedoms, this monitor is 100% DRM-free and is not encumbered by HDCP or any other DRM schemes.
Other features: nVidia G-Sync, ATI FreeSync, internal USB hub, internal IEEE1394 hub, internal Light Peak hub

Monitor 4
Prices: glossy/50cm=$350, matte/50cm=$350, glossy/60cm=$400, matte/60cm=$400, glossy/70cm=$450, matte/70cm=$450
Aspect ratio: 16:10
Panel finish: Choice of glossy or matte
Resolutions: 2304x1440x90Hz, 2048x1280x105Hz 1920x1200x120Hz, 1840x1150x140Hz, 1760x1100x160Hz, 1680x1050x180Hz, 1600x1000x195Hz, 1536x960x215Hz, 1440x900x240Hz, 1280x800x260Hz, 1152x720x285Hz, 1024x640x320Hz, 768x480x355Hz
Response time: Instant
Input lag: Zero
Colors: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Contrast: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Viewing angle: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Inputs: Dual-Link DVI, DisplayPort 1.2a
Digital Restrictions Management: To protect personal freedoms, this monitor is 100% DRM-free and is not encumbered by HDCP or any other DRM schemes.
Other features: nVidia G-Sync, ATI FreeSync, internal USB hub, internal IEEE1394 hub, internal Light Peak hub

Monitor 5
Prices: glossy/50cm=$400, matte/50cm=$400, glossy/60cm=$475, matte/60cm=$475, glossy/70cm=$550, matte/70cm=$550, glossy/80cm=$625, matte/80cm=$625
Aspect ratio: 16:10
Panel finish: Choice of glossy or matte
Resolutions: 2560x1600 90Hz, 2304x1440x105Hz, 2048x1280x120Hz, 1920x1200x135Hz, 1840x1150x160Hz, 1760x1100x215Hz, 1680x1050x240Hz, 1600x1000x260Hz, 1536x960x285Hz 1440x900x320Hz, 1280x800x345Hz, 1152x720x380Hz, 1024x640x425Hz, 768x480x475Hz
Response time: Instant
Input lag: Zero
Colors: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Contrast: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Viewing angle: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Inputs: Dual-Link DVI, DisplayPort 1.2a
Digital Restrictions Management: To protect personal freedoms, this monitor is 100% DRM-free and is not encumbered by HDCP or any other DRM schemes.
Other features: nVidia G-Sync, ATI FreeSync, internal USB hub, internal IEEE1394 hub, internal Light Peak hub

Monitor 6
Prices: glossy/50cm=$525, matte/50cm=$525, glossy/60cm=$600, matte/60cm=$600, glossy/70cm=$675, matte/70cm=$675, glossy/80cm=$750, matte/80cm=$750
Aspect ratio: 16:10
Panel finish: Choice of glossy or matte
Resolutions: 3072x1920x90Hz, 2880x1800x105Hz, 2560x1600x120Hz, 2304x1440x140Hz, 2048x1280x160Hz, 1920x1200x180Hz, 1840x1150x215Hz, 1760x1100x285Hz 1680x1050x320Hz, 1600x1000x345Hz, 1536x960x380Hz, 1440x900x425Hz, 1280x800x460Hz, 1152x720x505Hz, 1024x640x565Hz, 768x480x635Hz
Response time: Instant
Input lag: Zero
Colors: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Contrast: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Viewing angle: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Inputs: Dual-Link DVI, DisplayPort 1.2a
Digital Restrictions Management: To protect personal freedoms, this monitor is 100% DRM-free and is not encumbered by HDCP or any other DRM schemes.
Other features: nVidia G-Sync, ATI FreeSync, internal USB hub, internal IEEE1394 hub, internal Light Peak hub

Monitor 7
Prices: glossy/50cm=$650, matte/50cm=$650, glossy/60cm=$725, matte/60cm=$725, glossy/70cm=$800, matte/70cm=$800, glossy/80cm=$875, matte/80cm=$875
Aspect ratio: 16:10
Panel finish: Choice of glossy or matte
Resolutions: 3520x2200x90Hz, 3360x2100x100Hz, 3200x2000x110Hz, 3072x1920x120Hz, 2880x1800x140Hz, 2560x1600x160Hz, 2304x1440x185Hz, 2048x1280x215Hz, 1920x1200x240Hz, 1840x1150x285Hz, 1760x1100x380Hz, 1680x1050x425Hz, 1600x1000x460, 1536x960x505Hz, 1440x900x565Hz, 1280x800x615Hz, 1152x720x675Hz,1024x640x755Hz, 768x480x845Hz
Response time: Instant
Input lag: Zero
Colors: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Contrast: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Viewing angle: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Inputs: Dual-Link DVI, DisplayPort 1.2a
Digital Restrictions Management: To protect personal freedoms, this monitor is 100% DRM-free and is not encumbered by HDCP or any other DRM schemes.
Other features: G-Sync, FreeSync, internal USB hub, internal IEEE1394 hub, internal Light Peak hub

Monitor 8
Prices: glossy/50cm=$775, matte/50cm=$775, glossy/60cm=$850, matte/60cm=$850, glossy/70cm=$925, matte/70cm=$925, glossy/80cm=$1000, matte/80cm=$1000
Aspect ratio: 16:10
Panel finish: Choice of glossy or matte
Resolutions: 3840x2400x90Hz, 3680x2300x100Hz, 3520x2200x120Hz, 3360x2100x135Hz, 3200x2000x145Hz, 3072x1920x160Hz, 2880x1800x185Hz, 2560x1600x215Hz, 2304x1440x245Hz, 2048x1280x285Hz, 1920x1200x320Hz, 1840x1150x380Hz, 1760x1100x505Hz, 1680x1050x565Hz, 1600x1000x615Hz, 1536x960x675Hz, 1440x900x755Hz, 1280x800x820Hz, 1152x720x900Hz,1024x640x1005Hz, 768x480x1125Hz
Response time: Instant
Input lag: Zero
Colors: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Contrast: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Viewing angle: Better than the absolute best LCD IPS money can buy
Inputs: Dual-Link DVI, DisplayPort 1.2a
Digital Restrictions Management: To protect personal freedoms, this monitor is 100% DRM-free and is not encumbered by HDCP or any other DRM schemes.
Other features: nVidia G-Sync, ATI FreeSync, internal USB hub, internal IEEE1394 hub, internal Light Peak hub

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia...athode_ray_tube
https://en.wikipedia...emitter_display
https://en.wikipedia...mission_display
https://en.wikipedia...crystal_display
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLED
https://upload.wikim.../Sed_vs_CRT.jpg
 
Last edited:
alibaba tells us that there are still CRT factory producing CRT today, including 21" 1080p tubes, suitable for CCTV use.
http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search...&CatId=&SearchText=21+inch+color+CRT+monitor+

looking at prices, i do believe that most of the monitors on the list could be outsourced for less than $100 FOB price- excluding the gazzilllion hubs.

i have no idea how much would cost to bring a container or ten of these CRTs to western market, but chinese supplier say tehy capable of building 31" CRTs...i have no f idea what max resolution would be, or what refresh rate existing electronics could drive such screens.
 
UnrealCpu said:
I have owned a fw900 and it sucked compared to my IPS 2690wuxi made in 2007
Click to expand...

I believe you, but you have to understand that to many it is the opposite.

i can see you are a hz fanboy
Click to expand...

Actually, I am a black level, contrast, motion fluidity and sharpness, viewing angles and zero lag "fanboy".

thats cool i like the fact i can lug around a 27" IPS with one hand and still get ultra quality detail at 2560x1440p
Click to expand...

I keep my monitors on the desk. If I had to carry anything around it would be neither a CRT nor a 27" LCD.

I really dont miss the black levels since my plasma does that for me.
Click to expand...

That is a tv, not a monitor, with all the inherent drawbacks. Also falls short of CRTs in some aspects, but much, much better than any LCD, of course.

i will say my next monitor will be a real 120hz IPS , also i can not see myself playing games past 120hz anyway due to the face most games are meant to be run at 60hz. I do like the fact gsync or freesync will solve tearing issues and lag
Click to expand...

LCD's refresh can't compare to CRT's, monitor refresh has little to do with game FPS, g/freesync do nothing for LCD's lag and tearing is not an issue on a high refresh CRTs.

Believe me, I would like nothing more than having an option to buy a monitor that is a good enough replacement for a CRT. Unfortunately, LCDs are an inherently bad technology that can't be fixed and we made one step forward, five steps backward with them. OLED is currently a barely adequate replacement for plasma and still some time away from coming close to CRTs motion capabilities. Maybe it will get there some day. SED was the only technology that was promising. Seeing how the market chose the worst peace of sh** technology of all the past and current ones, I am not too optimistic for future display options.
 
Actually, I am a black level, contrast, motion fluidity and sharpness, viewing angles and zero lag "fanboy".
Click to expand...

cool

I keep my monitors on the desk. If I had to carry anything around it would be neither a CRT nor a 27" LCD.
Click to expand...


cool





LCD's refresh can't compare to CRT's, monitor refresh has little to do with game FPS, g/freesync do nothing for LCD's lag and tearing is not an issue on a high refresh CRTs.
Click to expand...

once 120hz become norm for IPS freesync and gsync will be enough to game at.



Believe me, I would like nothing more than having an option to buy a monitor that is a good enough replacement for a CRT. Unfortunately, LCDs are an inherently bad technology that can't be fixed and we made one step forward, five steps backward with them. OLED is currently a barely adequate replacement for plasma and still some time away from coming close to CRTs motion capabilities. Maybe it will get there some day. SED was the only technology that was promising. Seeing how the market chose the worst peace of sh** technology of all the past and current ones, I am not too optimistic for future display options.
Click to expand...

OLED is a great replacement for plasma. It will have infinite blacks , super thin, thinner than LED sets, low energy, ultra bright.. We will see 120hz 4k OLED screens within the next 2-4 years



SED or any CRT is a thing of the past , no one wants it


i highly doubt SED would have been better. There is a reason why myself or you are not lead engineers at samsung , cannon , panasonic and sony. They know what will sell and what wont. unfortunately tech companies love to milk the consumer of $$$ and will milk the LED tech until the day someone threatens to release something better or will be bought out anyway . Just like microsoft can spend billions for minecraft from mojang.

i can guarantee 98% of the population that games on consoles on LED tvs and PC computer monitors, are perfectly satisfied. Releasing a 21" SED monitor will be stepping backwards
 
The idea that LCD was a choice of an inferior technology is a matter of opinion; aside from inferior dot pitch, CRTs had many other major disadvantages. They consumed massive amounts of power(the power consumption of a FW900 is more than 5x as much as my 32" 4K monitor...). This also comes with a commensurate amount of excess heat generation. If I had 2 CRTs on my desk it would be pretty similar to having a space heater in my office...

CRTs are also so heavy and large that making larger CRTs is impractical, even a 32" CRT would likely be too deep for most desks, and it would weigh something like 120-160lbs! Dual 27"+ monitors would suddenly become completely impractical for most home offices. This creates much higher shipping costs as well. It's important to keep in mind where and how the majority of screens and monitors are shipped and used. Businesses are a huge market; and for a business, 1/5th or less power consumption, 1/10th the shipping weight, and negligible heat generation reduces costs and overhead by very large amounts. Not to mention increased desk space. Motion resolution doesn't matter at all for this use case.

For the consumer, super thin, wall-mountable TVs make room layouts and interior design possible that were not possible before, and for many many people this kind of stuff is more important than(to them) nit picking of negligible display quality differences. Cost of electricity and heat output are also significant to consumers in many markets.

OLED is already a reality, LG is shipping 55" 1080P TVs that cost $2200, and 4K 65" TVs that cost $8500 will start shipping within a few months. SED died because by the time they got through with the legal shenanigans, they just couldn't get the production costs down to a reasonable level compared to LCD/Plasma. OLED is almost there, though when we'll see practical OLED monitors is still up in the air, at least it is a practical, consumer-ready technology that is price, size, and power consumption competitive with LCDs.

Complaining that CRT/SED died because people don't appreciate particular aspects of display quality above all other factors is pretty arrogant IMO.
 
Meeho said:
LCD's refresh can't compare to CRT's, monitor refresh has little to do with game FPS, g/freesync do nothing for LCD's lag and tearing is not an issue on a high refresh CRTs.
Click to expand...

As a hardcore CRT gaming stalwart for the last 25 years, I have to take issue with this part of your rant!

YES YOU SEE TEARING on CRTs just like you see it on LCDs. The INTENSITY (i.e the duration) of tearing frames goes down with your refresh rate, and you can get 144 Hz quite easily on LCDs if you desire, but in both cases YOU WILL STILL see the occasional tear. Only newer technology like Free/G Sync will permanently fix the problem without the framerate spikes of v-sync.

Lag is no-longer a problem if you go with gaming-oriented monitors. I just had my old CRT die, and because I play twitch games and was feeling cheap, I replaced it with an Asus 23" 2ms TN 1080p. The input lag is so low it's barely slower than my old CRT - in a firefight in Titanfall or Borderlands, I really can't notice the difference!

And I'm a person so picky about latency that I notice the small lag trying to stream Steam games over my gigabit network using nvenc acceleration on the host (both with my old CRT, and the new 2ms LCD).

Asus VS247H

Input Lag Database puts it at 11ms, which is fantastic for a $150 throway gaming monitor! Lag that low is almost unnoticeable. And the tearing running this monitor at 75 Hz is no different from my old CRT at 85 Hz! So yes, you CAN get a usable gaming monitor if you're not foolishly looking for an LCD that DOES EVERYTHING.

And, this is compared to trying to playing anything twitchy on my LG IPS TV, which has gargantuan input lag. Anything faster moving than a lazy FPS like Bioshock Infinite is a waste of time on that sluggish monster. So yes, I know exactly what you mean by SLOW LCD...
 
Last edited:
UnrealCpu said:
once 120hz become norm for IPS freesync and gsync will be enough to game at.
Click to expand...

30 FPS is also enough to game at. It doesn't mean I would want to when there is a better option.


OLED is a great replacement for plasma. It will have infinite blacks , super thin, thinner than LED sets, low energy, ultra bright.. We will see 120hz 4k OLED screens within the next 2-4 years
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, OLEDs are comparable to LCDs when it comes to motion. Until that improves, they are so-so compared to plasma.


SED or any CRT is a thing of the past , no one wants it
Click to expand...

FW900 is the largest thread on this forum (or one of the largest at least) for a reason.


i highly doubt SED would have been better. There is a reason why myself or you are not lead engineers at samsung , cannon , panasonic and sony. They know what will sell and what wont.
Click to expand...

Don't see what is a better display and what is marketed/sold more has to do with one another.


unfortunately tech companies love to milk the consumer of $$$ and will milk the LED tech until the day someone threatens to release something better or will be bought out anyway
Click to expand...

We had better, but they had bigger investment in and higher profit margins with the inferior technology.


i can guarantee 98% of the population that games on consoles on LED tvs and PC computer monitors, are perfectly satisfied.
Click to expand...

Yes, they are. Don't see how that relates to better display tech.


Releasing a 21" SED monitor will be stepping backwards
Click to expand...

14" LCD would also be stepping backwards.
 
Meeho said:
30 FPS is also enough to game at. It doesn't mean I would want to when there is a better option.
Click to expand...
Here let me educate you

Adaptive-Sync capable monitors solve three distinct issues in games. The first issue is tearing, tearing occurs mainly whenever the frame rate exceeds the refresh rate of the monitor. The second issue is somewhat related to the first, as stuttering can occur if the frame rate exceeds or falls behind the refresh rate. The third issue is input-lag, which occurs when you enable V-Sync to get rid of tearing and stuttering.
So before variable refresh rate monitors had existed, irrespective of whether they were G-Sync or FreeSync enabled. You had to choose between either tearing and stuttering or latency.

Read more: http://wccftech.com/amd-freesync-mo...january-driver-coming-december/#ixzz3Um8WZAh6

And i am looking forward to gaming on 27" 2560x1440p IPS gsync monitor at 120hz



Unfortunately, OLEDs are comparable to LCDs when it comes to motion. Until that improves, they are so-so compared to plasma.
Click to expand...

In the future OLED will be better than LED , give it a few years . 4k at 120hz will be common and affordable. Still wanting that small SED screen?

FW900 is the largest thread on this forum (or one of the largest at least) for a reason.
Click to expand...
Its because the thread was started sometime in 2004 and people like myself found out better solutions in 2007 and never looked back. Plus that thread is probably made up of mostly teenagers who live at home with their parents and have no job or cant afford a real monitor and keep trolling the thread.
You might be one idk



Don't see what is a better display and what is marketed/sold more has to do with one another.
Click to expand...
its called supply and demand, i dont think you were taught enconomics 101 in high school or college
Click to expand...
 
defaultluser said:
As a hardcore CRT gaming stalwart for the last 25 years, I have to take issue with this part of your rant!

YES YOU SEE TEARING on CRTs just like you see it on LCDs. The INTENSITY (i.e the duration) of tearing frames goes down with your refresh rate, and you can get 144 Hz quite easily on LCDs if you desire, but in both cases YOU WILL STILL see the occasional tear.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it doesn't exist. I've said it is not an issue with high refresh rates.

Lag is no-longer a problem if you go with gaming-oriented monitors. I just had my old CRT die, and because I play twitch games and was feeling cheap, I replaced it with an Asus 23" 2ms TN 1080p. The input lag is so low it's barely slower than my old CRT - in a firefight in Titanfall or Borderlands, I really can't notice the difference!

And I'm a person so picky about latency that I notice the small lag trying to stream Steam games over my gigabit network using nvenc acceleration on the host (both with my old CRT, and the new 2ms LCD).

Asus VS247H

Input Lag Database puts it at 11ms, which is fantastic for a $150 throway gaming monitor! Lag that low is almost unnoticeable. And the tearing running this monitor at 75 Hz is no different from my old CRT at 85 Hz!
Click to expand...

This is true, but you have to go TN to get low lag and that is just a big no, no. And motion fluidity/sharpness on that one is a far cry from a 85Hz CRT.

So yes, you CAN get a usable gaming monitor if you're not foolishly looking for an LCD that DOES EVERYTHING.
Click to expand...

That is the very problem with LCDs. You can only get a fast one or a good color/viewing angles one, but not both and not a good contrast one in any case.
 
Meeho said:
I didn't say it doesn't exist. I've said it is not an issue with high refresh rates.
Click to expand...

shakes head


This is true, but you have to go TN to get low lag and that is just a big no, no. And motion fluidity/sharpness on that one is a far cry from a 85Hz CRT.
Click to expand...


shakes head again, try looking up a new korean crossover monitor with one DVI port that is overclock able to 120hz with outstanding contrast and clarity .That monitor will solve 90 percent of your issues with LED. Besides you can also pick it up with one hand and save over 100.00 a year on electricity costs , gaming 8 hours a day at .16cent a kw vs the FW900
That is the very problem with LCDs. You can only get a fast one or a good color/viewing angles one, but not both and not a good contrast one in any case.
Click to expand...

like i said go on ebay and by a korean overclockable monitor to 120hz or a overlord gaming LCD that is overclockable. plus you can rotate the screen vertically on the stand and play some sick pinball or pacman/galaga.

Are those games to old for you?


someone please kill this thread
Click to expand...
 
UnrealCpu said:
Here let me educate you

Adaptive-Sync capable monitors solve three distinct issues in games. The first issue is tearing, tearing occurs mainly whenever the frame rate exceeds the refresh rate of the monitor. The second issue is somewhat related to the first, as stuttering can occur if the frame rate exceeds or falls behind the refresh rate. The third issue is input-lag, which occurs when you enable V-Sync to get rid of tearing and stuttering.
So before variable refresh rate monitors had existed, irrespective of whether they were G-Sync or FreeSync enabled. You had to choose between either tearing and stuttering or latency.

Read more: http://wccftech.com/amd-freesync-mo...january-driver-coming-december/#ixzz3Um8WZAh6
Click to expand...

Thank you for the obvious. None of that will fix motion blurring compared to CRTs. Lightboost is the only thing that could, but that has its own drawback.


And i am looking forward to gaming on 27" 2560x1440p IPS gsync monitor at 120hz
Click to expand...
Good for you. I hope they solve lag, motion blur, IPS glow and poor contrast at some time too.


In the future OLED will be better than LED , give it a few years . 4k at 120hz will be common and affordable. Still wanting that small SED screen?
Click to expand...

They are already better than LED. No, I want a large one.


Its because the thread was started sometime in 2004 and people like myself found out better solutions in 2007 and never looked back. Plus that thread is probably made up of mostly teenagers who live at home with their parents and have no job or cant afford a real monitor.
Click to expand...

Funny. Also, I doubt teenagers even know what CRT looks like. Maybe they heard about them in history books next to floppies.


its called supply and demand, i dont think you were taught enconomics 101 in high school or college
Click to expand...

They haven't taught me that sale numbers = tech quality, no. Must have missed that day.
 
11ms is not insignificant for certain types of games

the 800$ acer xb270hu is the only high-hz monitor which combines good colors+viewing angles with low lag, though we should be seeing more similar monitors this year. still the sequential contrast ratio is nowhere close to the levels crts are capable of as it is an ips.
 
UnrealCpu said:
shakes head again, try looking up a new korean crossover monitor with one DVI port that is overclock able to 120hz with outstanding contrast and clarity. That monitor will solve 90 percent of your issues with LED.
Click to expand...

You mean the one next to my FW900? It's not OCed, though, but even at 120Hz it is far from a CRT in motion.


Besides you can also pick it up with one hand and save over 100.00 a year on electricity costs , gaming 8 hours a day at .16cent a kw vs the FW900
Click to expand...

I game several hours a week, so one coffee less here and there will cover the loss.


plus you can rotate the screen vertically on the stand and play some sick pinball or pacman/galaga.

Are those games to old for you?
Click to expand...

I've started with Apple II clone and most of my games are from GOG. What do you think?
 
flod said:
not sure if serious
Click to expand...


i am serious why? Its the best available option for 300.00-400.00 vs acer 800.00 price tag you talked about.

Also please provide some education to us how us humans can perceive anything over 1000:1 contrast ratio. Did not realize we were decedents of peacocks.
 
Meeho said:
You mean the one next to my FW900? It's not OCed, though, but even at 120Hz it is far from a CRT in motion.
Click to expand...
just like the electricity, poundage and heat output that you have to deal with, not to mention the X-ray radiation dosage you get from sitting in front of it.

btw hope you already had your children


I game several hours a week, so one coffee less here and there will cover the loss.
Click to expand...

did you factor in cooling costs?

I've started with Apple II clone and most of my games are from GOG. What do you think?
Click to expand...
no idea
sounds like you are retro
Click to expand...
 
Meeho said:
That is the very problem with LCDs. You can only get a fast one or a good color/viewing angles one, but not both and not a good contrast one in any case.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but don't pretend that CRT was some sort of cheap dream date. The range of models and options to drive them had all sorts of caveats just like LCDs do:

Entry-level shadowmask displays of varying quality, and some with incredibly low bandwidth, forcing users to run native resolutions at 60 Hz! Crappy colors, ect, plus the annoying fact that most cheaper VGA cards had blurry image, made owning low-end CRTs no fun!

And even in their heyday in the late 1990s, quality 19" *Tron monitors were $600+, and those 22" beauties were priced into the stratosphere (typically around 1k). And then, even if you had the cash to drop on those bricks...

...finding a quality VGA source before approximately the year 2003 meant you couldn't have an Nvidia card (and even some ATI cards were hit-or-miss), which severely limited your options for 3D gaming with a sharp picture. Only after the heyday of the CRT did high-quality VGA from Nvidia discrete cards become a solved problem (and it's still an issue on integrated video).

So yeah, there's a reason most people thought digital was better. That is, for the majority of people, the quality and cost of feeding/ cost of entry for these new LCD monitors was much better, and the displays were sharp so long as you ran at native resolution.
 
Last edited:
UnrealCpu said:
Also please provide some education to us how us humans can perceive anything over 1000:1 contrast ratio. Did not realize we were decedents of peacocks.
Click to expand...
UnrealCpu said:
not to mention the X-ray radiation dosage you get from sitting in front of it.

btw hope you already had your children
Click to expand...

I'll take the above statements as a joke as you surely can't be serious.

defaultluser said:
Yeah, but don't pretend that CRT was some sort of cheap dream date. The range of models and options to drive them had all sorts of caveats just like LCDs do:
Click to expand...

Oh, don't get me wrong. They were far from perfect. It's just that they are superior in PQ aspects that matter to me the most.
 
UnrealCpu said:
Also please provide some education to us how us humans can perceive anything over 1000:1 contrast ratio.
Click to expand...

you've got to be trolling right?
just look at your monitor in a dim room like you're supposed to
 
WOW I was one of those hoping that SED monitors would take off I followed SED TV blog till the very end then ended up getting a led lcd which I still use today.
Took a good few weeks to get used to the panel.
 
UnrealCpu said:
just like the electricity, poundage and heat output that you have to deal with, not to mention the X-ray radiation dosage you get from sitting in front of it.

btw hope you already had your children
Click to expand...

If you want ridiculous threads to die, then don't feed the fire. I'm pretty sure you're exaggerating like hell right now, because everything you list (except for the radiation) is a matter of opinion. The radiation, as far as I know, has never been proven to be harmful or even significant.

Seems to me like you prefer your displays to be "good enough", and value ergonomics. Fine. CRT nuts prefer the image of the CRT. Ergonomics be damned. Both camps have their preferences.

For what it's worth, I'm eyeing that new Acer Gsync monitor, and I love my FW-900. I agree with your other post though - let this thread die. Getting a new CRT monitor would be awesome for the fans. But reality is a cold, hard bitch.
 
if you're looking at a black and white checkerboard, then yea

but what happens in a dark scene? you don't just have black and white colors anymore, and the black levels become incredibly obvious
 
spacediver said:
Yep, definitely a troll. See discussion here:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=952788&highlight=oh+wait+he+was&page=489

I believe he was banned at one point.
Click to expand...


Not trolling here buddy with 2.0 years of service with Hardocp.

I have given concrete evidence with proof from outside sources to justify my opinion. I am leaving this discussion because it would seem others like yourself are not to educated when it comes to certain things the OP has posted as well on linus tech tips back in 2014.

So dont come on here and accuse me of trolling.

Also CRTs do cause more X-ray radiation than a LED or Plasma television .
I hope these sets you want to bring over to the USA are certified from god who knows sketchy factories in China build them from.

per the FDA

Assuring That TV Sets Meet the Radiation Standard

Manufacturers of television receivers and computer monitors contain CRTs must certify that their products meets performance standard under Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 1020.10. All TV manufacturers must submit written radiation safety reports to FDA outlining how they assure that each set coming off the assembly line complies with the Federal x-ray radiation limit. These reports contain a description of the manufacturer’s quality control and testing program and the television radiation safety design. Manufacturers also must maintain records of test data and prepare an annual report to FDA summarizing these records. The FDA has the authority to ask for radiation safety data including results of x-ray leakage from selected sets to determine compliance with the standard.
Television receivers imported into the United States, which do not meet the standard are not allowed into the country and are destroyed if not exported in 90 days. Importers, however, may petition FDA for permission to correct the violations.


It is important to note also that flat panel TVs incorporating Liquid Crystal Displays (LCD) or Plasma displays are not capable of emitting x-radiation. As such these products and are not subject to the FDA standard and do not pose a public health hazard.

http://www.fda.gov/Radiation-EmittingProducts/ResourcesforYouRadiationEmittingProducts/ucm252764.htm

oh btw Spacediver

buddy you are officially on my ignore list for trying to troll me
 
jbltecnicspro said:
If you want ridiculous threads to die, then don't feed the fire. I'm pretty sure you're exaggerating like hell right now, because everything you list (except for the radiation) is a matter of opinion. The radiation, as far as I know, has never been proven to be harmful or even significant.

Seems to me like you prefer your displays to be "good enough", and value ergonomics. Fine. CRT nuts prefer the image of the CRT. Ergonomics be damned. Both camps have their preferences.

For what it's worth, I'm eyeing that new Acer Gsync monitor, and I love my FW-900. I agree with your other post though - let this thread die. Getting a new CRT monitor would be awesome for the fans. But reality is a cold, hard bitch.
Click to expand...

true i am unsubscribing to this nonsense

i am also considering acer or asus 120hz IPS
 
There is no manufacturing base left in the world that deals with the components required for a CRT.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top