NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

86 5.0L said:
Any recommendations for a 240mm expandable aio kit? I've been waiting and waiting for the kelvin s24 but im losing my patience for it to be released here in the states. Should I just wait some more or is there a viable alternative?

A 4770k and 780ti will be stuffed in my m1 :D
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Sorry to burst your bubble... but the Kelvin S24 isn't coming to the US last I heard. And I heard that directly from Fractal Josh.
 
WiSK said:
I'm only seeing charts relating to radiators with a fixed flow rate. Perhaps you linked the wrong one?
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i swear i saw plots of delta vs gph a few weeks ago. idk
here's one though
http://www.swiftech.com/images/mcr320_HD_vs_FR.gif
Remember, water cooling is a two stage process. Heat in, as well as heat out. Each heat exchanger will have a different graph of flow rate v heat transferred, the water blocks as well as the radiator. You have to consider them, and measure them, as a whole when analysing pump performance.
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oh yes i neglected waterblocks... turbulence definitely plays a big role there but probably its effect becomes saturated rather quickly as well
http://i.imgur.com/rYOEhBH.png

i guess that for most setups increasing pump speed rather than fan speed is always less effective at reducing temperatures while minimizing an increase in noise
 
flod said:
i guess that for most setups increasing pump speed rather than fan speed is always less effective at reducing temperatures while minimizing an increase in noise
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Indeed. Both graphs you link show my point very well :)

The MCR320QP pink line shows only a 15% increase in heat dissipated when doubling flow (from 0.5 gpm to 1.0 gpm).

After about 1.1 gpm there is a kink in the curve. After that, a threefold increase in flow rate (from 1.1 gpm to 3.4 gpm) only results in around 12% increase in heat dissipated.

mcr320_HD_vs_FR.gif


Since you have 70% of the maximum performance at the minimum pump speed, and over 80% of the performance at 25% flow rate, why go higher? More noise, shorter pump life, more change of cavitation, harder to bleed air from the loop (since reservoir works best when flow is low).

It's the same picture in the second graph of dual MCP35X pumps, 25% PWM setting seems to be ideal.

Whether it's entirely attributable to "turbulence" isn't as important as noting that the effect is there, regardless of the name of the exact mechanical cause ;)
 
Urelure said:
First off I must admit I completely missed how overclocked your cpu was. Sorry about that. As for the gpu heatsink the acceleros have way bigger heatsinks so i don't think its directly comparable. That being said, I need to actually do this to be able to fight harder for it;)

price wise the math (did a quick comparison) the twin turbo is what i based it on and that is cheaper.

Anyways, with those clock speeds you need water anyways so this round goes to you sir:cool:
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I'm not sure how well the regular acceleros perform or even if the xtreme models fit, however based on my rather crude testing I decided to go full water for the ease of it, or rather of the choice. I knew I couldn't do it wrong as long as I'd get it to fit :p

I'm not saying one can't get proper results with air, I'm saying I chose to go water because I wanted to be extra sure, seeing my clockspeeds :)



callumbolch said:
more pics please good sir - want to se how your setup compares to mine.
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Aren't we all in this together? That pic is the only "good" one, my wires aren't arranged or anything,

Here's how the hoses go:


And here's one to show how well there is space for the rads to breathe had I not installed that second HDD behind one:

 
I'm looking at 980's and reference coolers are with a few exceptions sold out in Sweden, anyone got a non-reference 980 and some temp. figures too share? Should I get a reference card before they're all gone or can I wait and still get decent temps with a non-reference?
 
My understanding was that the limitation of standard closed loop watercooling is two thermal transfer interfaces (cpu/gpu die <> waterblock and radiator <> air); after all, you are trying to move the heat away from the die and into your surrounding environment

For cpu/gpu die <> waterblock the main limitation on rate of heat transfer vs rate of heat generation would be the temperature differential between water and your block (ie maximize surface area closest to the contact area with the IHS, and marginal effect from actual turbulence aside from moving heated water away quickly so that cooler water can replace it and suck up heat more quickly)

For radiator <> air your limitation is a function of surface area and how quickly you can move the heated air away from your radiator (cfm/airflow) and thus bring cooler air to transfer heat more quickly

The two functions of moving heat from the cpu/gpu die to the water, and heat from the water into the cooler ambient air, eventually will reach thermal equilibrium so really you need to have your loop running for 30+ minutes to get an accurate equilibrium since water has a relatively high heat capacity.

The reason the speed of the waterflow in your loop has a less than linear relationship with temperatures is because the two functions above are the primary factors in how fast you can cool your components when they're under load. Turbulent designs take a back seat to having a 10c lower ambient temperature and having lots of surface area on the rads with good airflow.


edit: I am no physicist, this is just my understanding of how heat transfer works so feel free to critique or chime in if my understanding is wrong. I think it's the same reason that a refrigerator would make a terrible cooler (condensation issues notwithstanding), because they are not capable of transferring heat quickly, just reaching a lower absolute temperature over time through effective thermal isolation
 
You are right that temperature delta and surface area are the primary variables for calculating heat transfer. However turbulence does affect the latter in fluid dynamics.

The continuous disturbance of the boundary layer of the tube side fluid increases the amount of turbulence within the fluid as described mathematically by the "Nusselt number" and, providing the tube side fluid has the higher resistance to heat flow, will increase the overall rate at which heat is transferred.
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From http://www.hrs-heatexchangers.com/en/resources/advantages-of-corrugated-tubes.aspx
 
My M1 was due to be despatched on the 4th but I haven't heard anything, not to worry.

In the mean time I'm wondering what Z97 board to use, I want to re-use my Cryorig C1 from my current build, was thinking of going with the Z97I-Plus as I'd also like PCIe M.2 support as well.

Any ideas?

Cheers.
 
Telecaster said:
My M1 was due to be despatched on the 4th but I haven't heard anything, not to worry.

In the mean time I'm wondering what Z97 board to use, I want to re-use my Cryorig C1 from my current build, was thinking of going with the Z97I-Plus as I'd also like PCIe M.2 support as well.
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ncase also informed that my shipment was about to be shipped 4th of february and they would email tracking to me code and update it also to paypal. That didnt happen so I guess there are delays. I have asked them for updated shipping info but havent revieved an aswer yet.

I am going also for m.2 pci express ssd. Note that there are several types of those disks and another are working in pci-e mode and other in sata. My choise was samsung xp941 256gb as new model xp951 seems to be impossible to get at this time. Note that this solution also shares pci-e lanes with your display adapter, so gpu gets 8x pci-e 3.0 lanes. Still it gives so huge boost for disk performance and maybe 1-2% drop for my gtx780 so I choose this over normal sata3 ssd. I will be usings asus maximus vii impact.
 
My SX500-LG just arrived and is now installed. It doesn't seem to push the GPU down as much as everyone makes out. Will post pics if you guys want.
 
No Hands 55 said:
Anyone have any tips on managing these cables a little better? I'm wanting to get a 92mm fan to go under the gpu fan and didn't know if there was any better way to tuck away everything other than under the gpu. Really wish i had the tools to make custom length cables
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I only had the original thick cables from the 450W SFX, but I managed to bunch all of the cables between the CPU and the PSU. I had to use around 3 -4 cable ties to keep it all toward the PSU with minimal pressure on the GPU, but it does make the whole area under the GPU open and free for fans and anything else.

I don't know how well that would work with the softer flat cables, but I would imagine that careful planning (and re-organising) all of the cables could work in a similar fashion.
 
tomih said:
ncase also informed that my shipment was about to be shipped 4th of february and they would email tracking to me code and update it also to paypal. That didnt happen so I guess there are delays. I have asked them for updated shipping info but havent revieved an aswer yet.

I am going also for m.2 pci express ssd. Note that there are several types of those disks and another are working in pci-e mode and other in sata. My choise was samsung xp941 256gb as new model xp951 seems to be impossible to get at this time. Note that this solution also shares pci-e lanes with your display adapter, so gpu gets 8x pci-e 3.0 lanes. Still it gives so huge boost for disk performance and maybe 1-2% drop for my gtx780 so I choose this over normal sata3 ssd. I will be usings asus maximus vii impact.
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Thanks for the info.

I just need to figure out which motherboards my C1 will fit on, Cryorig's compatibility list is rubbish, I think I'll just need to eyeball it and take a guess.
 
No Hands 55 said:
Anyone have any tips on managing these cables a little better? I'm wanting to get a 92mm fan to go under the gpu fan and didn't know if there was any better way to tuck away everything other than under the gpu. Really wish i had the tools to make custom length cables

http://i.imgur.com/5t5OcpSl.jpg
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Most of the excess PSU cable in mine is folded up and stuffed between the back of the PSU and my side HDD rack (would be against the Silverstone logo in your picture).

I'm using the shorter flat cables from Silverstone's PP05-E set and just the main 24-pin cable from the stock SX600-G set (since it's the only one that's shorter). You'll save quite a bit of space doing that versus using just the stock set. Well worth the $30 imo..

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041115907&postcount=932
 
AFD said:
Most of the excess PSU cable in mine is folded up and stuffed between the back of the PSU and my side HDD rack (would be against the Silverstone logo in your picture).

I'm using the shorter flat cables from Silverstone's PP05-E set and just the main 24-pin cable from the stock SX600-G set (since it's the only one that's shorter). You'll save quite a bit of space doing that versus using just the stock set. Well worth the $30 imo..

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041115907&postcount=932
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wow. i thought the 600w came with the shorter ones but i guess not. im really tempted to get them but im still wanting a few upgrades that $30 could go towards. ill definitely keep these in mind though thanks!
 
No Hands 55 said:
wow. i thought the 600w came with the shorter ones but i guess not. im really tempted to get them but im still wanting a few upgrades that $30 could go towards. ill definitely keep these in mind though thanks!
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It's only a couple of inches shorter here and there. Although the PP05-E guarantees compatibility, if those few inches are worth spending $30 on then you could also consider custom length wires from someone with a MiniFit Jr crimper.
 
WiSK said:
It's only a couple of inches shorter here and there.
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Only a couple inches? By my math, an average M1 build can save ~20" in excess cabling by swapping to the shorter PP05-E set. Heck, swapping out the stock SATA cable alone will save you an entire foot of cabling.

Custom length is an obviously better choice with the proper patience and skills, but paying someone else to do it will cost you a hell of a lot more.


Both good choices, but just figured that $30 was a relatively small price to pay for a quick and easy swap versus trying to stuff an extra 2-feet of unneeded cable into a fairly tiny case. I've spent a few hundred dollars on Silverstone crap for my M1, and so far the PP05-E kit has been the only thing of theirs that I've been really happy with, and can recommend without massive reservations ;)
 
Telecaster said:
So the short cable doesn't come as standard with the 600w PSU then? I thought I read that it did..
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Their site claims it comes standard although it's a confusing statement. It could mean that they are flat, similar to the kit, or short, similar to the kit. I can't tell which they mean or both.

"Besides the power increase, the SX600-G comes standard with flexible, flat modular cables similar to those in the PP05-E short cable kit for vastly improved cable management in smaller cases."

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=524

Here's a pic with what came with mine:

IMG_5323_1.jpg
 
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Their SFX power supplies come with cables that are shorter than what's included with their ATX power supplies, BUT not as short as what's in the PP05-E.
 
Still waiting for the SX500-LG but here's a pic of the bracket itself:

CnjARij.jpg


Also a poll: http://strawpoll.me/3598988

It looks like the SX500-LG just barely fits with the v3 bracket so I'm wondering if there's still enough demand to develop my custom design beyond a prototype.
 
Looking good Abioh. I am still interested. In my case it is more about the versatility. Even with a short gpu, flipping the psu in this orientation will most likely improve airflow a lot in opening up a bit more betwen top and bottom "compartments". That, and this way i know i have the possibility to go sfx-l and long gpu comfortably in the future.
 
Aibohphobia, voted. v3 owner here that wants that bracket. I have a 980 and don't want it bending at all because of the PSU cables.
 
Since I had several components lying around, I thought I'll take some more pictures with the Silverstone SFX-L. As Anagog already said, it fits quite well, I am surprised how well, because the Chieftec SFX-500GD-C hardly fit with a GPU without backplate (removing the sleeve from the Chieftec cables should help though).
NCase V3
Silverstone SFX-L
MSI GTX 760 Twin Frozr w/o backplate || OCUk GTX 970 w/ backplate
http://imgur.com/a/El2Ss
 
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Aibohphobia said:
Still waiting for the SX500-LG but here's a pic of the bracket itself:

CnjARij.jpg


Also a poll: http://strawpoll.me/3598988

It looks like the SX500-LG just barely fits with the v3 bracket so I'm wondering if there's still enough demand to develop my custom design beyond a prototype.
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Nice!
Gimme!

If you deiced not to produce them, will you share the files? (I'll get someone local to make me one)
 
tkuhs said:
Since I had several components lying around, I thought I'll take some more pictures with the Silverstone SFX-L. As Anagog already said, it fits quite well, I am surprised how well, because the Chieftec SFX-500GD-C hardly fit with a GPU without backplate (removing the sleeve from the Chieftec cables should help though).
NCase V3
Silverstone SFX-L
MSI GTX 760 Twin Frozr w/o backplate || OCUk GTX 970 w/ backplate
http://imgur.com/a/El2Ss
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Thanks for taking pictures, these are very convincing shots. Without the PSU cables connected, the GPU already looks like it's bending, but in actuality that's just how it normally rests. With the cables in there, I'm convinced that it's not exerting additional pressure against the GPU.

I'm glad I didn't bite on the SX600. I've already waited this long, so what's another couple weeks...
 
Here are some photos of SX500-LG with Gainward GTX 970 + Accelero Xtreme IV:


I've cut down the original VRM cooler to fit with the accelero.

Clearance:


(Sorry for potato quality.)
Real silent stuff :D
 
I'd love two of those psu brackets for my V1 and V2. It would be awesome if Lian Li ended up making them for future versions. I'm kinda obsessive but I like it when it's the 100% same color and material as the rest of the case
 
Blk said:
Whats the min.quantity for it too be viable?
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Not sure yet, I'm waiting to test it out to see if there are any changes needed. Then I'll start emailing manufacturers and getting quotes.


Hanakuso said:
I'd love two of those psu brackets for my V1 and V2. It would be awesome if Lian Li ended up making them for future versions. I'm kinda obsessive but I like it when it's the 100% same color and material as the rest of the case
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Yeah, I probably won't be able to match the paint exactly. For a small run like this we'll just be at the mercy of whatever the shop has in stock.
 
Aibohphobia said:
Not sure yet, I'm waiting to test it out to see if there are any changes needed. Then I'll start emailing manufacturers and getting quotes.




Yeah, I probably won't be able to match the paint exactly. For a small run like this we'll just be at the mercy of whatever the shop has in stock.
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At least it's black. That's probably the easiest color to get close for a match and I doubt anyone would notice but ourselves.
 
So, slight concern. I was cleaning my parts last night and noticed that I had some motherboard warping, from what I assume is the weight of my Noctua NH-U9B cooler. Just look at the fame when comparing the lines to the motherboard. How bad is this?

28u1jlf.jpg


148n2bp.jpg
 
I have a U9B and it is not heavy enough to do that. You may have tightened the U9B too much.
 
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