Windows 11 Market Share Keeps Declining

[GotNoRice]

Has Microsoft screwed up the Windows update process? Back with Win-8 and early Windows 10 it seemed like you could install a lot of the pending updates without having to reboot like you had to on earlier versions of Windows, but for a long time it seems that my Windows 10 license has been changed from Home to Constant Reboot Edition.

If there are multiple updates that each require a reboot, and you have reboot notification enabled, then you'll get the reboot notification after the first update that needs a reboot gets installed. But, you don't actually need to reboot until everything in Windows Update is done installing. If you're compulsively hitting the reboot button every time it pops up, that's on you. Just open Windows Update and see what is going on. If there are still Pending Updates, then wait for those to finish first, and you should only have to reboot once.

If you don't want to deal with as many updates, then uncheck the "Get the latest updates as soon as they're available" toggle.

 

[Eivind68]

If there are multiple updates that each require a reboot, and you have reboot notification enabled, then you'll get the reboot notification after the first update that needs a reboot gets installed. But, you don't actually need to reboot until everything in Windows Update is done installing. If you're compulsively hitting the reboot button every time it pops up, that's on you. Just open Windows Update and see what is going on. If there are still Pending Updates, then wait for those to finish first, and you should only have to reboot once.

If you don't want to deal with as many updates, then uncheck the "Get the latest updates as soon as they're available" toggle.

I'm not pushing the reboot button more than once a month, then I let the PC wait on the login screen until it has installed the new updates and then I reboot again to be done with it for another month. So Windows Update is most definitely finished.
But back in the day, with Win 7 and 8, you could install a lot of updates without having to reboot at all, like you had with Win XP and earlier versions, but now it seems like every time there has been an update to Windows 10, you will have a reboot pending.

 

[Shoganai]

until the next big "feature update" and they add even more restrictions and it locks you out at the most inconvenient time like how things usually go.

you or i might be able to handle it, but not sure what i'm going to do with my parents computer and a couple other family/friends i maintain. prob going to grab a used ssd off ebay and use that to install linux and see what they think. and i guess if they don't like it they're just going to have to drop a bunch of money on new parts. personally i don't think it's worth it just for win11 which i think is a pile of crap anyway not to mention all the built in spyware. the worst part is the requirements are fake anyway just put there to, i guess, try and boost pc sales. i hope this bites them in the a$$ hard and we start seeing a mass migration to linux. that or they need to extend win10 support indefinitely like they did with win7. kind of hoping they're just playing chicken.

It depends on what they're doing. I've moved quite a few of my clients and family over to Linux (plus an SSD upgrade) because it does everything they need it to do and they really enjoy it. It's either been Linux Mint or Zorin OS. My older clients seem to like Zorin OS more.

 

[TordanGow]

Windows 11 is getting worse with ads and feature bloat while Microsoft stopped crippling W10 because it's coming up on end of life...so W10 is experiencing an uptick

You can always just stop w11 updates... there are multiple easy ways to do so. Easiest being - set your primary connection as "metered" and disable updates over metered connection.

 

[Axman]

You will have to eventually upgrade to Windows 11. There's no way around it. Can't recommend Linux because Adobe products run like crap on Linux through Wine. If only Adobe brought their software to Linux. Office 365 can run in a web browser but there's also Libre Office. Not if 365 is absolutely needed. Unless Microsoft wakes up and makes some serious changes, the goal is to move onto Linux. That goal isn't really attainable for anyone needing to use Adobe.

Doesn't sound like he needs Adobe to me.

 

[DukenukemX]

Sure but the pressure now on the Adobe forum is supporting Snapdragon processors.

Is it? Not sure what the five people who bought those laptops and didn't immediately return them would expect?

If you think about it, there isn't just "one" Linux platform. There are many 10s of distros. And Adobe can't justify testing on just-how-many different distros and releases, all of which are probably well under 1% market share.

GNU/Linux works like Android in that despite the many different versions, they all run APK's. They all run the Linux kernel, and use the same dependencies. The only real difference between Linux distros is the repository, preinstalled programs, and configuration. Nowadays the majority of distros can be distilled down to...

• Based on Debian
• Based on Ubuntu, which is also based on Debian
• Based on Arch
• Based on Fedora

That's like the majority of Linux distros and they all run the same software, given they have the dependencies. Even dependencies aren't a problem with Flatpak and AppImage. You think I had to reinstalled all my software when I moved from Linux Mint to CachyOS? I copied most of my data and it just worked.

And what about Joe over here, who decides to compile his own distro from sources. Oh, Joe has tweaked the code to "improve it."

Flatpak and AppImage.

If I were the QA manager at any decent-sized software company, I would bar the door against Linux.

Yet, Steam, Chrome, and DaVinci Resolve work just fine on all Linux distros.

Your goal? I wish it could also be my goal, but I'm dependent on Microsoft AND Adobe.

It should be everyone's goal, because Microsoft will continue to get worse. You could go MacOS, but then you'd need new goals. There's a reason these guys made the switch, and James Lee was also dependent on Adobe products. At some point Adobe will have to support Linux, but that day isn't today. You go Windows 11 and try to make the best of it.

View: https://youtu.be/l_fpnbPvxBc?si=97dn97IP-tk6uLbi

 

[atarione]

The same thing that is an obstacle from moving my main pc to Linux, is actually also a pain w/ Windows 11 as well.

I for some reason play this one game "crossout" that uses EAC which means the game just will not run on Linux ... but due to some problem between 24H2 and EAC I can not update to 24H2 currently... and it has been months and still can not upgrade to 24H2..

Frequently adobe is brought up as a reason to not move to Linux... but how many people are actual adobe Photoshop..etc users? For design professionals certainly it is an issue, and it would be nice if adobe would make a Linux version of their software ... But probably the amount of an Edge case they are in general is even more reason to not pursue the Linux market were they would be an edge case of a edge case Operating system? Adobe is an legitimate issue for some people, but not for most people... Unless you are using it for work I can't imagine it makes sense to pay adobe $60~ a month (or even $20 a month for students) for the creative cloud package.)

For anyone just mucking about making memes or whatever... opensource alternatives would likely get the job done without costing $720/yr.... or $240/yr if you are a student apparently... oh right I had forgot about this, but you apparently have to pay Pantone $15 a month to use Panatone colors in adobe software as well... fantastic...

 

[Axman]

Frequently adobe is brought up as a reason to not move to Linux... but how many people are actual adobe Photoshop..etc users?

It's people who are convinced that Adobe is Best when there are plenty of alternatives these days.

Also I think people use it as an excuse to dunk on Linux.

 

[philb2]

Linux is Linux. Distros matter not. If Adobe wanted to release as flatpak only no one would have any issue with that. It also completely removes the idea of haven't to support multiple distros in some way.\

Maybe from your ppoihnt of view. Even if you are totally right, where is the business case? Market share of desktop Linux is single digits? That is a very nichy, nichy market. And since GIMP is available as an open source "replacement" for Photoshop, how many people will say, "Oh, I have got to start paying Adobe $10 a month (or more) instead of staying with GIMP.

Blackmagic specifies RHEL Cent or Rocky OS requirements... though they software works on basically any distro. By specifying Red hat distros they don't have to support pro clients on other distros.
SideFX makers of Houdini support all the major workstation distros Ubuntu Rhel and even very non workstation distros like Mint and Pop. Though they make clear some older workstation distros can't run the latest versions. In my experience people using commercial full on Houdini are on RHEL 99% of the time.
Autodesk does much the same for Maya. Linux requirement is RHEL or Rocky.

My point is the argument of 1000 distros means nothing.

Not if you are a support manager in a profitable, but basically conservative company like Adobe.

. I don't understand why Adobe doesn't go after that business though really considering Linux support at this point is a few days work and a recompile.

1. Because I seriously doubt it's only a few days to recompile. Don't forget that both Photoshop and Lightroom, (not to omit Premiere, etc) rely very heavily on graphics displays. But even if you accept the ppoint that Linux=Linux=Linux, what is the standard way of doing graphics in a Linux environment? To answer my own question, there isn't. And that means that it's not just a recompile. It's a lot of new code for that nichy-nichy market.
2. Because even if you ignore #1, the market numbers aren't there.

Adobe, in my observation, is very strict about OS support. People in one forum I frequent complain because they can't upgrade their perfectly good Mac hardware suitcase Apple doesn't support that hardware with the latest OS releases. Therefore Adobe doesn't.

 

[ChadD]

The same thing that is an obstacle from moving my main pc to Linux, is actually also a pain w/ Windows 11 as well.

I for some reason play this one game "crossout" that uses EAC which means the game just will not run on Linux ... but due to some problem between 24H2 and EAC I can not update to 24H2 currently... and it has been months and still can not upgrade to 24H2..

Frequently adobe is brought up as a reason to not move to Linux... but how many people are actual adobe Photoshop..etc users? For design professionals certainly it is an issue, and it would be nice if adobe would make a Linux version of their software ... But probably the amount of an Edge case they are in general is even more reason to not pursue the Linux market were they would be an edge case of a edge case Operating system? Adobe is an legitimate issue for some people, but not for most people... Unless you are using it for work I can't imagine it makes sense to pay adobe $60~ a month (or even $20 a month for students) for the creative cloud package.)

For anyone just mucking about making memes or whatever... opensource alternatives would likely get the job done without costing $720/yr.... or $240/yr if you are a student apparently... oh right I had forgot about this, but you apparently have to pay Pantone $15 a month to use Panatone colors in adobe software as well... fantastic...

You should uninstall any game that wants to use EAC anyway. Let alone a game from a Russian developer. lol I mean there is a reason they don't use the Linux compliant version of EAC. As I see it if a game with EAC runs in Linux its safe... it means they are using the non root kit version of EAC. If it won't run in Linux they have chosen to root your system. Screw that.
Really why would you let a Russian game developer install a root kit on your computer?
Having said that if your really set on making it run you can experiment with older proton versions.
https://www.protondb.com/app/386180
Your millage may vary, a few people in the last few months have got it running using Proton 8 or Proton 7. Others have had less luck.

 

[Shoganai]

It's people who are convinced that Adobe is Best when there are plenty of alternatives these days.

Also I think people use it as an excuse to dunk on Linux.

No ... no there aren't alternatives ... and I've tried them all. Alternatives for Lightroom and Illustrator also suck. Adobe not supporting Linux isn't a dunk on Linux. It's a very viable reason why maining Linux isn't an option for some people. Native Adobe may never happen on Linux as it's not a profitable option for Adobe. I wish there were better alternatives. Adobe is an evil, garbage corporation, but their apps are the de facto standard and they make me money. It's a love/hate relationship.

 

[Axman]

No ... no there aren't alternatives ...

What specific feature or features about Lightroom are you looking for?

 

[ChadD]

Maybe from your ppoihnt of view. Even if you are totally right, where is the business case? Market share of desktop Linux is single digits? That is a very nichy, nichy market. And since GIMP is available as an open source "replacement" for Photoshop, how many people will say, "Oh, I have got to start paying Adobe $10 a month (or more) instead of staying with GIMP.

Not if you are a support manager in a profitable, but basically conservative company like Adobe.

1. Because I seriously doubt it's only a few days to recompile. Don't forget that both Photoshop and Lightroom, (not to omit Premiere, etc) rely very heavily on graphics displays. But even if you accept the ppoint that Linux=Linux=Linux, what is the standard way of doing graphics in a Linux environment? To answer my own question, there isn't. And that means that it's not just a recompile. It's a lot of new code for that nichy-nichy market.
2. Because even if you ignore #1, the market numbers aren't there.

Adobe, in my observation, is very strict about OS support. People in one forum I frequent complain because they can't upgrade their perfectly good Mac hardware suitcase Apple doesn't support that hardware with the latest OS releases. Therefore Adobe doesn't.

The business case? Who do you presume pays Adobe the big money? Adobe makes a massive chunk of their profit from professional studios, who pay for multi user subs for their art depts. 99% of those studios are using Linux servers. Probably 20 maybe 30% these days are actually using Linux workstaitons. They often have to mess around supporting laptops and other machines for specific art people where its just easier to let them be on a Mac so they can run Adobe software. For the video dept though running things like Davinci Resolve (Black magics Resolve has about a 5% total market share of video editing suites... in Hollywood that is more about 30-40%) Linux is the preferred OS.
Houdini is another art professional suite. It is widely used in Hollywood in movies TV, its popular with a bunch of major and smaller studios that do fast turn around work for the advertising industry. Many of the smaller (and some of the larger) studios run it on Linux stations as they often pair it with SideFX Karma and solaris (Uses the Pixar Open source render standard, which is why you see it used heavy by Disney contracted studios. Houdini has been used for VFX pieces for basically everything Disney for years.) renderers. In terms of workstation use Linux runs all the SideFX stuff faster anyone seriously using SideFX stuff and studios pay like $5k a year for it. Are using Linux.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH-CIpCAN1w

If we are talking about your average Wedding photographer that subs to Adobe so they can use light room and photoshop. Your not wrong they probably don't care about Linux support. There is a huge big dollar art market out there that Adobe makes life difficult for, by not just compling Linux binaries.

As for compling for Linux...... here is the thing. Adobe software uses the QT tool kit for its UI. Most people know QT as the framework the KDE desktop is built on. Its cross platform software that can be compiled for pretty much any OS. Its maingly developed on Linux. QT development is now handled by a the QT company its open source, and I would say 90%+ of its developmene comes from the KDE/Linux community.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_(software)
Compling for Linux is not a big deal. I am not evey sure it would take Adobe 2 days, it is probably as easy as running their C++/QT framework code through a compiler. It is already developed to be cross platform.
As for heavy on graphics displays. No Photoshop really isn't that heavy duty at all. Linux handles all that stuff better then windows. It would run on Linux about on par with Mac. As I have already said cross platform things like Davinci and Houdini run faster on Linux which is why serious studios mostly run Linux. For non pro stuff you can look to blender to see the OS difference, Blender is also slightly faster under Linux. On the pro end people will pay thousands more for a GPU that saves them 1-2 minutes on a render, if they can gain the same on Linux that is what many of them do.

 

[Harvestor]

When the time comes that i am forced to upgrade to win11 It will be a dedicated gaming computer with nothing else on it completely isolated from my network.

 

[atarione]

You should uninstall any game that wants to use EAC anyway. Let alone a game from a Russian developer. lol I mean there is a reason they don't use the Linux compliant version of EAC. As I see it if a game with EAC runs in Linux its safe... it means they are using the non root kit version of EAC. If it won't run in Linux they have chosen to root your system. Screw that.
Really why would you let a Russian game developer install a root kit on your computer?
Having said that if your really set on making it run you can experiment with older proton versions.
https://www.protondb.com/app/386180
Your millage may vary, a few people in the last few months have got it running using Proton 8 or Proton 7. Others have had less luck.

yeah... I admit I am "uncomfortable" with the Russian EAC deal... for sure.. game is fun however which is very irritating ... Thanx for the link I will take a look. On the upside (assuming I could sell the wife on the idea, might be a good case for building a gaming only computer that I then isolate on the network and have my other PC for Everything else?

Stupid game is kind of a time suck, but I do enjoy playing it... but I hate the fact it is Russian and has EAC.

 

[DukenukemX]

I for some reason play this one game "crossout" that uses EAC which means the game just will not run on Linux ... but due to some problem between 24H2 and EAC I can not update to 24H2 currently... and it has been months and still can not upgrade to 24H2..

Seems to be more of a problem with the game itself.

Frequently adobe is brought up as a reason to not move to Linux... but how many people are actual adobe Photoshop..etc users? For design professionals certainly it is an issue, and it would be nice if adobe would make a Linux version of their software ... But probably the amount of an Edge case they are in general is even more reason to not pursue the Linux market were they would be an edge case of a edge case Operating system? Adobe is an legitimate issue for some people, but not for most people... Unless you are using it for work I can't imagine it makes sense to pay adobe $60~ a month (or even $20 a month for students) for the creative cloud package.)

If this is done for professional use then I can understand. Once I learn a tool then it's really hard to learn another tool, but this is also why Adobe is such a hated company because they know this. Adobe also has a reputation for being... shit. The software is buggy and it's known to crash and take away hours worth of work. It's also not very well optimized for Windows. If you do this professionally then even venturing away from Adobe maybe worth the effort.

View: https://youtu.be/mKuC94Yk9b4?si=HruHjKMFU1rBS6zx

View: https://youtu.be/dJBEAZFP0aA?si=FxDI_OmLV5wd2u1X

For anyone just mucking about making memes or whatever... opensource alternatives would likely get the job done without costing $720/yr.... or $240/yr if you are a student apparently... oh right I had forgot about this, but you apparently have to pay Pantone $15 a month to use Panatone colors in adobe software as well... fantastic...

I've heard great things about Krita, and I even have it installed on my Linux machine but I'm still learning to use it over Photoshop. Libre Office is easy and intuitive to the point where I've never looked back to Microsoft Office. Kdenlive is so good that it makes it easy to cut videos and render them, which is why you see so many video clips instead of me messing with YouTube clips. It's not as powerful as Adobe Premiere Pro and DaVinci Resolve, but I'm doing this for fun and not professionally.

It's people who are convinced that Adobe is Best when there are plenty of alternatives these days.

Also I think people use it as an excuse to dunk on Linux.

It is but it's also a legitimate reason to an extent. It's on par with can't use a PC on the TV and too many Linux distros, but you maybe required to use Adobe products for school and work. Same with Microsoft Office, because your job doesn't want you using alternatives that may not be compatible with their stuff. For personal stuff it's really insane to depend on Adobe products when considering cost.

Maybe from your ppoihnt of view. Even if you are totally right, where is the business case? Market share of desktop Linux is single digits? That is a very nichy, nichy market.

As it stands right now, Linux is 1/4 the market share of MacOS. Not long ago it approached 1/3rd the market share of MacOS. It's also double that of ChromeOS. If it continues to grow then I wouldn't call it a nichy nich anymore.

And since GIMP is available as an open source "replacement" for Photoshop, how many people will say, "Oh, I have got to start paying Adobe $10 a month (or more) instead of staying with GIMP.

GIMP sucks, and there's plenty of better alternatives. Look for Krita.

1. Because I seriously doubt it's only a few days to recompile.

Compiling time isn't a factor.

But even if you accept the ppoint that Linux=Linux=Linux, what is the standard way of doing graphics in a Linux environment?

OpenGL and Vulkan. Been that way for ages.

To answer my own question, there isn't.

2. Because even if you ignore #1, the market numbers aren't there.

A lot of your information is dated. GIMP? Low market share? No standard way of doing graphics? Did you try Linux in 2012 and think it's still the same today?

Adobe, in my observation, is very strict about OS support. People in one forum I frequent complain because they can't upgrade their perfectly good Mac hardware suitcase Apple doesn't support that hardware with the latest OS releases. Therefore Adobe doesn't.

People complain a lot about Adobe products, but it's not because of the lack of Linux support. It's because Adobe products are shit.

 

[ChadD]

yeah... I admit I am "uncomfortable" with the Russian EAC deal... for sure.. game is fun however which is very irritating ... Thanx for the link I will take a look. On the upside (assuming I could sell the wife on the idea, might be a good case for building a gaming only computer that I then isolate on the network and have my other PC for Everything else?

Stupid game is kind of a time suck, but I do enjoy playing it... but I hate the fact it is Russian and has EAC.

I'm not saying this is the best solution... but if you have an on board GPU, or install a second GPU. There is the possibility of installing windows in a VM and passing your GPU through to it from Linux.
Another option, maybe not a first day Linux project. It is a viable option.

 

[ChadD]

GIMP sucks, and there's plenty of better alternatives. Look for Krita.

Kritia is nice if you were using Photoshop for painting. If your using photoshop for photoshop things its not really a replacement. Though I love Krita.
Gimp does suck. Its painful how bad it needs a UI makeover. Gimp 3 should hit soon, and they are catching up on features adding non destructive editing and stuff. I think they have a few UI refinements, no crazy changes though which is too bad. lol Gimp really needs a UI overhaul. It needs its Blender 2.8 moment where a major UI overhaul takes it from ok for free to oh damn this is top notch. Here is hoping the GIMP devs go that route once they get V3 out of RC state.

 

[DukenukemX]

I'm not saying this is the best solution... but if you have an on board GPU, or install a second GPU. There is the possibility of installing windows in a VM and passing your GPU through to it from Linux.
Another option, maybe not a first day Linux project. It is a viable option.

Linux is one of those things you really need to try before committing. Boot off a USB stick and mess around with it, or just put it on an old computer and see how it feels. Eventually that Windows 10 computer that can't upgrade to Windows 11, won't be very safe to keep using Windows 10. Linux is not for everyone just yet, but it's certainly made some huge strides over the past five years. The 2010's is when Linux went from broken Wifi and sound to everything works out of the box. From 2015 to 2020 is when Linux went from not playing Windows games to playing them about 5%-10% slower than Windows. The past five years is pushing for things like Flatpak and AppImage, while Proton got Esync and Fsync. Proton is no longer exclusive to Steam, as you can use Proton with UMU and Heroic Game Launcher. As of now we're seeing the rise of Wayland and soon we'll see NTSync in Kernel 6.14 which will bridge the performance gap between Windows and Linux in gaming. Good things are happening.

Kritia is nice if you were using Photoshop for painting. If your using photoshop for photoshop things its not really a replacement. Though I love Krita.
Gimp does suck. Its painful how bad it needs a UI makeover. Gimp 3 should hit soon, and they are catching up on features adding non destructive editing and stuff. I think they have a few UI refinements, no crazy changes though which is too bad. lol Gimp really needs a UI overhaul. It needs its Blender 2.8 moment where a major UI overhaul takes it from ok for free to oh damn this is top notch. Here is hoping the GIMP devs go that route once they get V3 out of RC state.

All I want is a photo editor that has a similar layout and tools as Photoshop, that doesn't break any laws. I doubt Gimp 3 will be enough, and Krita seems too different for me to adapt from Photoshop.

 

[DanNeely]

I'm not pushing the reboot button more than once a month, then I let the PC wait on the login screen until it has installed the new updates and then I reboot again to be done with it for another month. So Windows Update is most definitely finished.
But back in the day, with Win 7 and 8, you could install a lot of updates without having to reboot at all, like you had with Win XP and earlier versions, but now it seems like every time there has been an update to Windows 10, you will have a reboot pending.

The change happened IIRC mid windows 7 lifetime. MS used to issue anywhere between 5 and 20 individual updates each month as separate patches; but moved to a single cumulative monthly rollup patch for the OS. (A few misc not core OS things stayed out as individual patches, so you can still have more than 1 a month.)

The main reason this happened was that a lot of cLeVeR corporate IT people were picking and choosing which subset of the patches they installed every month and not installing random subsets of them. Ostentatiously this was supposed to be a risk reduction move (fewer changes, fewer chances for things to break); but the net result was that every company doing it was effectively running their own custom build of Windows; and as the number of independent patches grew higher it became physically impossible to test each new patch against each possible frankenbuild. Ex if there were 100 independently installable patches there were 2^100 ~= 10^30 possible configurations. All those unique configurations were a major ongoing source of post patch release problems and nearly impossible to QA after the fact. To the extent that they even could the only thing they could do to fix a specific issue (make a custom patch for the frakenOS that was blowing up) only made the problem going forward even worse.

Eventually MS bit the bullet and just went to the single sequential rollup model, which meant only having to deal with 1 version of windows/month and 99% of the time being able to say "you need to upgrade to the latest version if you have a problem" (and with support windows cutting that off after 2??? years).

While there were some teething issues shortly after the change, it's been years since I've heard about problems moving forward breaking stuff that weren't the result of crappy software doing things (generally modifying the Kernel) that in a green field platform never would have been allowed in the first place. Anti-cheat tools are probably the worst offender, although security tools can be almost as bad. The latter have to face that their corporate customers can just go to a competitor if they're found to be causing too much harm; while anti-cheat is basically locked in early in game dev and other than wholesale removal unlikely to change post release.

 

[Eivind68]

The change happened IIRC mid windows 7 lifetime. MS used to issue anywhere between 5 and 20 individual updates each month as separate patches; but moved to a single cumulative monthly rollup patch for the OS. (A few misc not core OS things stayed out as individual patches, so you can still have more than 1 a month.)

Thanks for a very informative answer, that explains it.

 

[DrezKill]

The main reason this happened was that a lot of cLeVeR corporate IT people were picking and choosing which subset of the patches they installed every month and not installing random subsets of them.

I did the same thing with my home PCs. I spent years picking and choosing individual updates to install on Windows 7, and which ones to hide. I had a list of which ones I refused to install on my PCs (especially the nagware ones that tried to push users towards Win10). Then they switched to the cumulative updates that reminded me of how they were handling updates for Win10, and that really pissed me of the fuck off.

 

[M76]

You will have to eventually upgrade to Windows 11.

What if I just wait for windows 12? Assuming it's not even worse.

 

[cpufrost]

What if I just wait for windows 12? Assuming it's not even worse.

Since 7 it's always seemed to get worse. Even 7 in its later days started getting updates with stuff that wasn't good.
It's pretty amazing how fast an XP machine runs as a VM on modern hardware. Literally boots to the desktop in about the same time it takes to open an Office 365 app!

 

[M76]

Since 7 it's always seemed to get worse. Even 7 in its later days started getting updates with stuff that wasn't good.

It was two steps back, one step forward since XP. If the pattern continues W12 should be more user friendly than 11.

Vista was two steps back, 7 one step forward, 8 two steps back 10 is one step forward, 11 two steps back, 12 should be the one step forward again.

It's pretty amazing how fast an XP machine runs as a VM on modern hardware. Literally boots to the desktop in about the same time it takes to open an Office 365 app!

And 98 installs faster

 

[Gideon]

I will remain on windows 10, could care less if their support stops. 11 is just a hot mess that I want nothing to do with. Hopefully 12 when it comes out will be much better, but I doubt it with all this AI garbage going around.

 

[sadsteve]

I'm not saying this is the best solution... but if you have an on board GPU, or install a second GPU. There is the possibility of installing windows in a VM and passing your GPU through to it from Linux.
Another option, maybe not a first day Linux project. It is a viable option.

I do this and it works great.

 

[Lakados]

I do this and it works great.

The Ryzen 7000 and 9000 series make this work really well because the built in graphics are fine for dad to day stuff.

I do recommend some sort of dummy plug for the HDMI port on the dGPU though as some things don’t work right in a VM environment on consumer cards when it’s not connected but that’s getting technical.

But yeah Virtual Machines are great, and if you know how to manage Golden Images for them then you don’t necessarily have to worry about licenses if you want to play with some of the enterprise variants you couldn’t otherwise get licenses for…

 

[Lakados]

I will remain on windows 10, could care less if their support stops. 11 is just a hot mess that I want nothing to do with. Hopefully 12 when it comes out will be much better, but I doubt it with all this AI garbage going around.

I’m hoping the decline in user base forces Microsoft to realize that trying to monetize the OS and its usage like they have is the wrong thing to do…. But I certainly won’t hold my breath on that.

 

[DukenukemX]

What if I just wait for windows 12? Assuming it's not even worse.

If you continue to use Windows then you don't have a choice. Will Windows 12 be better? I really doubt it. I personally believe that by Windows 12 that Microsoft will strictly enforce logging in with your Microsoft account. There won't be any hacks with Rufus or other tricks. Windows 12 may not charge a monthly fee, but parts of it maybe. Microsoft is all in with their AI crap, which means there's worse things Microsoft could include with Windows 12. Windows 12 is going to be much more awful than Windows 11. My advice is get some tools that remove the bloat in Windows 11, and turns off all the telemetry crap. There's also tools to change up the UI to look and act more like Windows 10.

You could continue to use Windows 10, but you're just asking for ransomware. I'm wondering how Windows 7 users are getting away with it. The only real solution is to migrate to Linux. I'm not saying to erase your Windows install and put in Linux Mint, because even I never removed my Windows installation. I still have my 1TB SSD installed in my PC that I can boot back into Windows 10 if Linux ever created a problem for me. I haven't booted into my Windows 10 installation for nearly 3 years now, but I keep it around just in case. GRUB detects Windows instantly and gives me the option to boot into it before Linux loads. SystemD... not so much. Takes work to get SystemD to give me the option to boot into Windows. The idea is to try and see if Linux works for you. I don't think Linux is ready for everyone to use it, but this is improving. SteamOS is releasing March of this year, and maybe that's the killer Linux OS? It's silly for anyone to demonize Linux, while also assuming that Bill Gates will realize one day that he owns Microsoft and could tell the Windows developers to stop being stupid and make Windows not suck. Windows 12 is not going to be good because Windows 11 was bad, like we've seen so many times with previous Windows releases. We're at the point where Microsoft is going to try and milk Windows for all it's worth.

View: https://youtu.be/EPfsr8BBdA8?si=ZyZFAb_Sgw2z4IdT

 

[LodeRunner]

GRUB detects Windows instantly and gives me the option to boot into it before Linux loads. SystemD... not so much. Takes work to get SystemD to give me the option to boot into Windows.

SystemD is also a bootloader now? Sorry OT I know, but I have never seen or heard it implemented that way, but the servers I run are Ubuntu or RHEL, alongside my Windows Server population.

 

[ChadD]

SystemD is also a bootloader now? Sorry OT I know, but I have never seen or heard it implemented that way, but the servers I run are Ubuntu or RHEL, alongside my Windows Server population.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Systemd-boot
SystemD is basic easy to deal with and fast. Great option for a pure Linux one distro system.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/REFInd
rEFInd probably the best option if your using a multi OS system. It will autodetect OSes on all attached media. Graphical pretty customizable. Even supports touch screen booting... I'm sure someone cares.

Grub... is what you use if you need Bios support. That and I guess at this point almost every long time Linux user has used it and knows how it works and how to tweak it.

 

[DrezKill]

SystemD is also a bootloader now?

That was my question too.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Systemd-boot

Well you learn something new every day. I had no fucking idea systemd had a bootloader. I use GRUB for booting Manjaro Linux and Windows 10.

 

[ChadD]

Well you learn something new every day. I had no fucking idea systemd had a bootloader. I use GRUB for booting Manjaro Linux and Windows 10.

SystemDs is pretty basic. Doesn't really support dual booting, think you can boot windows with it? Never tried. lol. Probably why most people don't realize you can use systemd instead of grub. A lot of Linux users still dual boot or want to have the option to anyway. rEFInd is imo much superior to GRUB. Most distros still default to Grub as it supports legacy bios setups. I'm not sure that is all that needed anymore, I guess if it ain't broke more distro runners figure why change.

This is why the arch neck beards say everyone should install arch by hand. All the things you get to look at and consider. lol

 

[cpufrost]

Anyone use/install Server 2025 yet?
There's a subscription based licensing mode available during setup. As if that's any indication of the direction of where things are moving.

 

[Comixbooks]

The last Windows I bought was Win 8 after a while the verification code didn't work in Win 10 or 11. I had to call Microsoft to get reactivated he used a generic code from the Win 11 site using Power Shell dos command. If anything if Windows 12 comes out I hope they make a better verification system. I just googled it seems to be a problem when reinstalling or upgrading like I with a new Motherboard last year. You know what would be nice add a prompt for Hardware change but it might too confusing for the general public just installing Windows.

 

[cpufrost]

I had to call Microsoft to get reactivated he used a generic code from the Win 11 site using Power Shell dos command.

That's the massgrave powershell script!

 

[Comixbooks]

https://massgrave.dev/

Can I use this with Windows 11 is it included already? Says just right click on Start ok I got it to show up just click on Terminal it has Terminal admin as well.

 

[M76]

If you continue to use Windows then you don't have a choice. Will Windows 12 be better? I really doubt it. I personally believe that by Windows 12 that Microsoft will strictly enforce logging in with your Microsoft account. There won't be any hacks with Rufus or other tricks. Windows 12 may not charge a monthly fee, but parts of it maybe. Microsoft is all in with their AI crap, which means there's worse things Microsoft could include with Windows 12. Windows 12 is going to be much more awful than Windows 11. My advice is get some tools that remove the bloat in Windows 11, and turns off all the telemetry crap. There's also tools to change up the UI to look and act more like Windows 10.

They can't get away with forcing an MS account login for enterprise, they can try to force it on home, but people like me will just install the version that can skip it. And IDGAF if they consider it piracy to use an enterprise OS at home.

You could continue to use Windows 10, but you're just asking for ransomware. I'm wondering how Windows 7 users are getting away with it.

They get away with it the same way as phone users. Most android phones stop getting security updates to the OS before the 2 year warranty runs out. And smartphones don't even have a firewall in front of them, they connect to the internet directly through 4G. Thus it is my firm belief that getting hacked or infected by ransomware can happen in only two scenarios: 1 User error, for clicking or running something you shouldn't have. This is the more likely scenario. 2 Being targeted specifically for an attack, and in this case having an up to date OS won't help you as they'll probably use zero days that haven't been patched yet anyway. So continuing to use W10 as long as games and drivers still support it is not off the table for me.

The only real solution is to migrate to Linux. I'm not saying to erase your Windows install and put in Linux Mint, because even I never removed my Windows installation. I still have my 1TB SSD installed in my PC that I can boot back into Windows 10 if Linux ever created a problem for me. I haven't booted into my Windows 10 installation for nearly 3 years now, but I keep it around just in case. GRUB detects Windows instantly and gives me the option to boot into it before Linux loads. SystemD... not so much. Takes work to get SystemD to give me the option to boot into Windows. The idea is to try and see if Linux works for you. I don't think Linux is ready for everyone to use it, but this is improving. SteamOS is releasing March of this year, and maybe that's the killer Linux OS? It's silly for anyone to demonize Linux, while also assuming that Bill Gates will realize one day that he owns Microsoft and could tell the Windows developers to stop being stupid and make Windows not suck. Windows 12 is not going to be good because Windows 11 was bad, like we've seen so many times with previous Windows releases. We're at the point where Microsoft is going to try and milk Windows for all it's worth.

As much as I dislike some aspects of Windows 11, it is still preferable to Linux. I'm not some linux noob, I've been familiar with linux for almost 20 years, and I never liked it. I used it out of necessity at work, not choice.

 

[LodeRunner]

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Systemd-boot
SystemD is basic easy to deal with and fast. Great option for a pure Linux one distro system.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/REFInd
rEFInd probably the best option if your using a multi OS system. It will autodetect OSes on all attached media. Graphical pretty customizable. Even supports touch screen booting... I'm sure someone cares.

Grub... is what you use if you need Bios support. That and I guess at this point almost every long time Linux user has used it and knows how it works and how to tweak it.

Thanks for the info. I knew about rEFInd, never had a reason to switch to it. All my servers are native EFI boot with legacy mode disabled and using GRUB (or GRUB2 I suppose? Would have to look at the package list). Indeed a case of ‘it works, I have no operational reason to spend time migrating to another solution.’