External Enclosure vs SATA Adapter.

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FenFox

Limp Gawd
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Does anyone here have experience using both?


https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-10Gbps-Adapter-Cable-Drives/dp/B00XLAZODE/ref=sr_1_10?keywords=SATA+to+USB+Cable&qid=1565218171&s=gateway&sr=8-10


VS


https://www.amazon.ca/UGREEN-Enclosure-External-Adapter-Housing/dp/B07D2BHVBD/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=SSD+external+enclosure&qid=1565214839&s=gateway&sr=8-4


Is there going to be any performance difference between the two or any weird functionality quirks I should know about? Although, I don't think TRIM works with the adapter. Should I go with the enclosure over the adapter?
 
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Difference depends on the bridge chip. The StarTech seems to use the ASM1351 while the UGREEN is using the ASM235CM. These are similar chips but the latter is technically superior.
 
Maxx said:
Difference depends on the bridge chip. The StarTech seems to use the ASM1351 while the UGREEN is using the ASM235CM. These are similar chips but the latter is technically superior.
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From reading the adapter Amazon page, it seems like it doesn't support TRIM either whereas the enclosure does. But, I don't know for sure--Amazon commentators generally aren't overly reliable.

Your links are broken.
 
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FenFox said:
From reading the adapter Amazon page, it seems like it doesn't support TRIM either whereas the enclosure does. But, I don't know for sure--Amazon commentators generally aren't overly reliable.
Click to expand...

TRIM is unfortunately one of those things that is way overblown. It used to matter with the first SSDs that supported it, it's much less important these days. Modern SSD controllers are far superior with garbage collection even without TRIM. And there are tons of cases where TRIM is not supported and people don't even talk about it - for example, any game console, internal or external, generally lacks TRIM support. It's just not a big deal if you're not doing certain workloads.

But to avoid lecturing on that - any drive with UASP support will have TRIM technically. UASP means SCSI so actually the chip is passing the SCSI UNMAP command which is equivalent to the ATA TRIM command. Both of these bridge chips/controllers support SCSI commands because they have to if they're USB3.1 Gen2, no real argument to be had there. It's tough even to find USB3.0 devices without UASP these days since people market around sequentials and BOT is just slower there. Keep in mind you will always take a hit to 4K performance going over USB regardless.
 
Maxx said:
TRIM is unfortunately one of those things that is way overblown. It used to matter with the first SSDs that supported it, it's much less important these days. Modern SSD controllers are far superior with garbage collection even without TRIM. And there are tons of cases where TRIM is not supported and people don't even talk about it - for example, any game console, internal or external, generally lacks TRIM support. It's just not a big deal if you're not doing certain workloads.

But to avoid lecturing on that - any drive with UASP support will have TRIM technically. UASP means SCSI so actually the chip is passing the SCSI UNMAP command which is equivalent to the ATA TRIM command. Both of these bridge chips/controllers support SCSI commands because they have to if they're USB3.1 Gen2, no real argument to be had there. It's tough even to find USB3.0 devices without UASP these days since people market around sequentials and BOT is just slower there. Keep in mind you will always take a hit to 4K performance going over USB regardless.
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Well, the main thing I'm gonna be using either the adapter or enclosure for is to connect an SSD to my Nvidia Shield which uses 3.0 connections. Primarily for Kodi metadata and I guess whatever else the Shield decides to install there. And I may run the occasional emulated game from the SSD storage. So, what would you recommend? I mean, I technically don't need USB 3.1 since the Shield only uses 3.0, but I have a PC with 3.1 connectors.
 
Yes, I have a Shield myself. Was an early adopter actually as I wanted to develop for it - definitely a good investment. There are of course many options with it, including NAS or very fast SD, but external works well. I run KODI on mine and have dabbled with emulation in the past as well using those listed methods, no real problems. If it's running a Plex server or something then the metadata definitely benefits from solid state and cheaper options (SD) are insufficient. Networking generally limits to 100 MB/s or so (GbE) but sequentials aren't really the issue, latency and 4K IOPS are, so yeah.

3.1 doesn't bring much to the table since it just enables higher sequential performance. I even use 3.0 enclosures on some of my older SSDs still. Moving forward I would suggest 3.1, though, if not for anything else but the superior bridge chips. An enclosure is generally unnecessary (as opposed to just a connector), I suppose that's a matter of aesthetics plus potential environmental damage; SSDs can run hot but SATA is mostly fine regardless, so cooling should not be an issue (although I know some people run their HTPCs in very tight spaces). So that's up to you.

I'd suggest a drive with DRAM as that helps mitigate some of the 4K performance issues (it's abstract to the controller/FTL) but otherwise you won't notice much difference for that type of usage (mostly reads). The SU800 is a popular choice here and what I recommend for console use as it's a good $/GB option. But if you're transferring stuff over on it manually a lot (from PC) you might want something that can stay fast with writes, like a MX500.
 
Maxx said:
Yes, I have a Shield myself. Was an early adopter actually as I wanted to develop for it - definitely a good investment. There are of course many options with it, including NAS or very fast SD, but external works well. I run KODI on mine and have dabbled with emulation in the past as well using those listed methods, no real problems. If it's running a Plex server or something then the metadata definitely benefits from solid state and cheaper options (SD) are insufficient. Networking generally limits to 100 MB/s or so (GbE) but sequentials aren't really the issue, latency and 4K IOPS are, so yeah.

3.1 doesn't bring much to the table since it just enables higher sequential performance. I even use 3.0 enclosures on some of my older SSDs still. Moving forward I would suggest 3.1, though, if not for anything else but the superior bridge chips. An enclosure is generally unnecessary (as opposed to just a connector), I suppose that's a matter of aesthetics plus potential environmental damage; SSDs can run hot but SATA is mostly fine regardless, so cooling should not be an issue (although I know some people run their HTPCs in very tight spaces). So that's up to you.

I'd suggest a drive with DRAM as that helps mitigate some of the 4K performance issues (it's abstract to the controller/FTL) but otherwise you won't notice much difference for that type of usage (mostly reads). The SU800 is a popular choice here and what I recommend for console use as it's a good $/GB option. But if you're transferring stuff over on it manually a lot (from PC) you might want something that can stay fast with writes, like a MX500.
Click to expand...

I plan to use the following SSD with the Shield for adopted storage. (It was RMA'ed recently) and I have no use for it otherwise.

https://www.newegg.ca/samsung-860-evo-series-500gb/p/N82E16820147674?Item=N82E16820147674

I run a Synology DS918+ NAS so I would never dream of using the Shield as a server. The NAS runs my Plex/Emby servers and stores all of my Plex/Emby metadata, but the Kodi metadata is stored locally on the Shield, hence why I want to use adopted storage.

So I dunno, should I use the adapter or enclosure with the Shield for my purposes? (Emulation/Metadata) and both 3.1 for the superior controller? Do you have a particular enclosure or adapter that you'd recommend from Amazon.ca?
It may be kinda annoying to use an enclosure due to the blinking access lights because my Shield is positioned right next to my TV. I guess I could always tape it over *Shrugs* but I would likely not have that problem with the adapter. I just want to get whatever will offer the best performance for both my Shield and else where should I decide to use it for a PC later on.

The other thing that I was slightly hesitant about with an enclosure was heat--as you mentioned. A lot of those enclosures don't even appear to be ventilated, so an adapter would probably be better for that. But maybe It's irrelevant since there are no moving parts in an SSD. The SSD will be placed in a fairly wide open space whether It's in an enclosure or via an adapter. Not overly concerned about accidental damage, but I may transport the SSD from time-to-time so an enclosure would be better protection.

Overall really, I want the adapter/enclosure to JUST WORK for the Shield/Windows etc.
 
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I picked up the Ugreen enclosure as linked in the OP. However I have some concerns about what's actually inside.

Under device mgr properties, it's coming back with a VID of 174C, PID 55AA. Researching this comes back to an asm1153 chip, not asm235cm. The enclosure is sealed tightly and doesn't allow for visual inspection (without damage) of the actual bridge chip. Any thoughts on confirming what's inside?
 
If your research indicates its anasm1153, it's probably an asm1153. I don't think there's a large difference between the two when using a standard 2.5" drive anyway. You won't bottleneck the SATA drive with USB 3.1 gen1. If it were a NVMe enclosure you might, but it's not.
 
I'm using an ssd (840 pro) inside the enclosure. You're right for spinners it won't make a bit of difference. If I was using nvme, it'd be going into a gen 2 enclosure (10gbps) which is still not enough.
 
das1996 said:
I'm using an ssd (840 pro) inside the enclosure. You're right for spinners it won't make a bit of difference. If I was using nvme, it'd be going into a gen 2 enclosure (10gbps) which is still not enough.
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It won't make a difference with ANY SATA drive even SSD. USB 3.1 Gen1 is still fast enough for your use case. The limit of SATA interface on the drive is around 600MB/s and USB 3.1 Gen1 is 5Gbps IIRC. You'll never get a full throughput on the SATA interface anyway.

Edit: Corrected data after looking it up.
 
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That's the crazy part, I'm getting ~400 MB/s with this enclosure on a drive capable of 525-550 MB/s when connected directly to the sata controller. I don't have any enclosures with the 1153 chip to test. So yes, the interface BW is there... someplace, but is not being achieved. The expectation was to be able to reach these speeds.

Regardless, the vendor advertises it with a particular chipset, but the device reveals itself as something else.
 
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