You guys need to get your use of little 'b' and big 'B' straightened out because I'm really confused right now.
Meh you know what I mean lol!
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You guys need to get your use of little 'b' and big 'B' straightened out because I'm really confused right now.
Doubtful, if they don't do some long term testing then consumers will complain about failing hardware and return it. Not that we don't get stuff like the "red ring of failure" or whatever it was called.
I think it was just bad QA combined with a case that was designed with form over function. The guts of the 360 are some of the worst I've ever seen in a small form factor device. They knew there was a problem with heat dissipation, but probably considered it acceptable as you say. In his book Robbie Bach talks about how Microsoft wanted to avoid their next console being ugly, as the original Xbox was, so the 360 took a design-centered approach and the case was finalized before the internals were. There were no longterm tests done on thermals and performance, and the issue was caused by the leadfree solder and constant heat cycling done by regular end users. That kind of issue can't be revealed without testing a device over a long period of time.The RRoD was super easy to spot (bad thermal pads and paste), MSFT was just sprinting to the gate to beat PS3: they either were so rushed in QA they missed it, or more likely, it was considered an acceptable risk. This time round, they should have more time to catch issues.
...
I would guess 64GB since it's going to be plenty and would be more than you expect, which console manufacturers always seem to shock us with when specs are announced.
I had one instance of little b, fixed it.You guys need to get your use of little 'b' and big 'B' straightened out because I'm really confused right now.
Are you claiming that 25 years of hardware trends mean nothing all of a sudden? The trend says the system is going to have 144GB of memory, so I'm trying to be realistic.I take it you started drinking early for New Year's Eve.
I had one instance of little b, fixed it.
Are you claiming that 25 years of hardware trends mean nothing all of a sudden? The trend says the system is going to have 144GB of memory, so I'm trying to be realistic.
Think about the 8GB in these systems today, 5 years after release. In 2025 is having 64 or 128GB of ram in a gaming system completely unrealistic?
What's your prediction? I want to make sure we bookmark this thread.
16GB sounds absolutely reasonable for a 4k system, but it certainly does not follow the trends:
Sony:
PS1 - 3MB
PS2 - 36MB (12x more than PS1 )
PS3 - 512MB (14x more than PS2)
PS4 - 8192MB (16x more than PS3)
PS5 - ?????
Microsoft:
Xbox - 64MB
360 - 522MB (approx. 8x more than Xbox)
One - 8224MB (approx. 16x more than 360)
Xbox 4 - ?????
I'm not back peddling anything. I made a comparison of current system configurations compared to 5 years ago, as I am 2025 compared to the expected 2020 release of PS5. Look at the context of the comparison in my original quote.Yeah, nice try back peddling and saying your prediction is now 2025 for 64 GB when your previous post contradicts this.
Xbox One was released in 2013. You clearly suggested that the PS5/Xbox being released in 2019/2020 would have 64 GB until you got made fun of for such a silly prediction.
I'm not back peddling anything. I made a comparison of current system configurations compared to 5 years ago, as I am 2025 compared to the expected 2020 release of PS5. Look at the context of the comparison in my original quote.
I'm still looking forward to your prediction since you seem to be so confident I'm wrong.
The Xbox One X uses 1GB memory chips which were announced and hit production in the 2008 time range. Considering 8GB GDDR chips were just announce a couple years ago, I think they would be the best option for the next gen consoles. You could fit 8-12 of them on a system so somewhere between the 64GB to 96GB range is probably going to be the target. In order to hit the crazy 144GB trend amount, they would need to be using 16GB chips which were only recently announced.
I would guess 64GB since it's going to be plenty and would be more than you expect, which console manufacturers always seem to shock us with when specs are announced.
The only mention of 2025 in the context of the quote I am making is to compare 5 years after the PS4 release in 2013, which is right now, 8GB of ram is not an unbelievable amount of memory. Therefore in 2025, which will be about 5 years after PS5 expects to launch with the estimated 64GB of ram I an predicting, 64GB will not be that much.Nobody here is buying the fact that you were trying to make a 2025 prediction when all of the leaks, including the one MENTIONED in this thread, show 2019/2020 release time for PS5/ XBOX '2'. Keep digging that hole.
I will not make a 2025 prediction, but if the next gen is released in 2019/2020, they will have 12-16 GB of vRam with 8-16 GB of system RAM. Go ahead and Bookmark that.
Are you still claiming that you were making a "2025 prediction" after posting this?
I'm not sure how accurate this link is, but in the middle of 2013 when PS4 started production the price per MB was within a couple cents of today's price.The problem is that RAM is actually MORE EXPENSIVE per byte today than it was when the current gen consoles were being designed ~8 years ago. So the next-gen consoles can't really have more RAM without becoming rediculously Overpriced...
The only mention of 2025 in the context of the quote I am making is to compare 5 years after the PS4 release in 2013, which is right now, 8GB of ram is not an unbelievable amount of memory. Therefore in 2025, which will be about 5 years after PS5 expects to launch with the estimated 64GB of ram I an predicting, 64GB will not be that much.
I am not predicting PS5 release in 2025, I am expecting/assuming it will release in 2020 with 64GB of ram.
In 2025, 5 years after launch, 64GB of ram will not be an unimaginable amount of memory in a console. Just like in 2018, 5 years after PS4 launch, 8GB is no longer some unimaginable amount of memory in a console. I bet in 2006 no one predicted 8GB of ram in a console. That's the only point I'm trying to make.
I'm not sure how accurate this link is, but in the middle of 2013 when PS4 started production the price per MB was within a couple cents of today's price.
https://www.jcmit.net/memoryprice.htm
Keep in mind manufacturers are not basing it on today's price but what they expect memory to be priced at when they start production in mid-/late 2020 if that is when the consoles get released.
64GB total. Not sure how they would split it up, but possibly 50/50 (32GB system and 32GB video).Well ok then, there we have it. You are predicting 64 GB of RAM for the PS5 in 2020. So how much vRam are you predicting then?
A month back there were rumors PS5 is targeting the $500 price point. Factor in bulk savings as you mentioned, that could leave upwards of $200-$250 for other components. Also, memory prices are expected to drop by 25% in the coming year. That could mean the system memory may be $250 or less of the total system cost factoring in that discount and bulk discounts.That still means that 64 GB of RAM will be ~350 dollars BY Itself, even factoring in bulk saving and contract supply pricing. how much do you expect the next gen consoles to cost?
Having the cost of RAM being within cents of what it was 6 years ago means that manufacturers have no headroom to increase the RAM capacity without drastically increasing the price. Essentially, 64 GB of RAM costs more or the same today as it did when Sony and Microsoft were designing consoles last time, and they chose against 64 GB last time.
64GB total. Not sure how they would split it up, but possibly 50/50 (32GB system and 32GB video)...
The Xbox One X uses 1GB memory chips which were announced and hit production in the 2008 time range. Considering 8GB GDDR chips were just announce a couple years ago, I think they would be the best option for the next gen consoles. You could fit 8-12 of them on a system so somewhere between the 64GB to 96GB range is probably going to be the target. In order to hit the crazy 144GB trend amount, they would need to be using 16GB chips which were only recently announced.
I would guess 64GB since it's going to be plenty and would be more than you expect, which console manufacturers always seem to shock us with when specs are announced.
You know that PS4 use GDDR5 memory even for system memory, right?Oh really, now it is your "combined estimate"...
Rather confusing as you were mentioning 8 chips of 8 GB GDDR in this post. Here you predicted 64 GB in vRam alone. So that means you were suggesting even more when combined as the article focuses on not using unified memory any longer.
In any case, 64 GB of any combination for a console is laughable even in 2020.
You know that PS4 use GDDR5 memory even for system memory, right?
I mentioned the chip count as a way to estimate how much memory the systems could theoretically have based on the available density of memory.
Also, I'd be happy for you to point out, specifically, where I claimed the 64GB would be for vRAM alone. If you are basing that off me mentioning GDDR5, see my first sentence. I assume PS5 will use unified memory, just like PS4.
The other guy and I talked about that a few post up. I have no idea where you're numbers are coming from but they seem way off.Well that just means you ignored the article and everybody else's post on this thread.
Christ, 64 GB of unified GDD5x/6? $1000+ console for sure.
The only mention of 2025 in the context of the quote I am making is to compare 5 years after the PS4 release in 2013, which is right now, 8GB of ram is not an unbelievable amount of memory. Therefore in 2025, which will be about 5 years after PS5 expects to launch with the estimated 64GB of ram I an predicting, 64GB will not be that much.
I am not predicting PS5 release in 2025, I am expecting/assuming it will release in 2020 with 64GB of ram.
In 2025, 5 years after launch, 64GB of ram will not be an unimaginable amount of memory in a console. Just like in 2018, 5 years after PS4 launch, 8GB is no longer some unimaginable amount of memory in a console. I bet in 2006 no one predicted 8GB of ram in a console. That's the only point I'm trying to make.
The other guy and I talked about that a few post up. I have no idea where you're numbers are coming from but they seem way off.
Here's a second source for memory pricing that says today 64GB of GDDR5 is going to run around $300. With the expected 25% price reduction in the coming year, plus increased densities and other factors that drive cost down, I could see 64GB of GDDR5 memory costing at or less than $200 in 2 years. If the rumors of a $500 console are true, that would leave $300 or more for the remaining components, which is completely reasonable to build a console with.
The other guy and I talked about that a few post up. I have no idea where you're numbers are coming from but they seem way off.
Here's a second source for memory pricing that says today 64GB of GDDR5 is going to run around $300. With the expected 25% price reduction in the coming year, plus increased densities and other factors that drive cost down, I could see 64GB of GDDR5 memory costing at or less than $200 in 2 years. If the rumors of a $500 console are true, that would leave $300 or more for the remaining components, which is completely reasonable to build a console with.
If the rumors are wrong and Sony is going to stick with the $400 price point, than 64GB may be too much and they could do something like 32GB total to fit that $400 price tag. At $500 I think 64GB is reasonable.
Moore's Law is slowing down, both for die-shrinks and for memory increases, at least on the non-enterprise front.Think about the 8GB in these systems today, 5 years after release. In 2025 is having 64 or 128GB of ram in a gaming system completely unrealistic?
1-3GB of RAM, depending on the console, is already strictly dedicated to the OS.What the hell would a console os/system use 32gb of ram for? Have the entire OS run off RAM? The OS can’t be that big.
I'm sure a standard feature of PS4 tools, is being able to soft lock a specified allocation. Keeping it unified means that devs are free to allocate appropriately for their engines. You could even do scene/area specific allocations. the unified APU architecture of the PS4 is of no detriment to performance. Its all GDDR5 and it has an additional bus so that that VRAM and System RAM usage can operate independently and with less wait states from the typical setup seen in PCs.
HUH? Not happening lol. WHy the hell in the world they would put 64GB of ram in there? It doesn't pass the common sense test. Trend doesn't make sense this time. You are coming from 512MB to 8Gb, 8gb is normal. Best you see is 16GB. You are not getting 64gb in a console lol.
Unified memory for a console makes far more logistical sense than a split memory pool due to the gaming use-case involved. While the systems do perform various background tasks and games themselves are not exclusively texture data/various graphical buffers, the amount of non-graphics data is a minority. The amount of non-gaming data isn't going to increase that much in between console generations either.
Who do you think it makes more logistical sense to unify the memory? Because there’s not much non gaming happening in the background? Great split it and give it System Ram that is just large enough plus a little room to grow. Then give the GPU side enough RAM to be happy to hit 4K.
It’s know that Zen cores love faster low latency ram correct? And all GPUs in general enjoy benefits of faster high bandwidth RAM. I don’t see GDDR being of benefit to Ryzen if the rumors are accurate as to it powering the systems. Splitting the RAM pool into DDR4 and GDDR5(x/6/whatever Iunno) makes more sense in getting the most performance out of the parts.
So what? Fenghuang (something I’d never heard of and googling only brings up articles from June and August) is a SoC, which I may be wrong but commonly feature everything including RAM on a single PCB.The AMD Fenghuang runs 8 GB of GDDR5 and that is more PC oriented than any of the consoles.
So what? Fenghuang (something I’d never heard of and googling only brings up articles from June and August) is a SoC, which I may be wrong but commonly feature everything including RAM on a single PCB.
Just because it exists (in the Chinese market) doesn’t really give evidence towards the consoles. And just because it’s more PC like doesn’t mean it wouldn’t benefit from having RAM specialized towards the specific tasks. There’s a reason you aren’t plugging 32GB GDDR5 into your motherboard for the CPU to access, and instead use DDR3/4.
Now, I’m not saying it isn’t possible they do go with this method. Obviously they went with it for the current consoles, and to save money/space/power/the whales, they might do it again. Just doesn’t make much sense to me if they want actually maximize what their chosen CPU/GPU are capable of.
Which is why I suggested enough DDR4 to be adequate, say 2-4GB and then separately 6-12 GDDR5. Giving both major components more of the appropriate memory needed.Mostly because it is just more resource efficient to run everything off of one memory pool if you can. Having 16 GB of GDDR5 and reserving just 2 GB or so for the O/S (which is all that consoles really need), will be less bottle necked than 8 GB of GDDR5 plus 8 GB of wasted DDR4 and more cost effective than having 16 GB of GDDR5 with additional DDR4. Not to mention would be a smaller package.
I’ll change my example some. There’s a reason GPUs use GDDR5 instead of DDR3/4.There is no "plugging in GDDR5" and it would be a waste of money for normal PC use so I am not sure what you are getting at there.
Yep. The Jaguar APU is a turd of a CPU even back in 2013, at some point even the best CPU will become the bottleneck; however I’m talking about Ryzen, another relevant link for you.The One X is actually a very powerful gaming console as is. The biggest bottleneck for higher fps gaming in 1080p is the cpu. I am not sure how much more effective the cpu or any cpu would be for gaming if it had lower latency memory.
The Xbox One X uses 1GB memory chips which were announced and hit production in the 2008 time range. Considering 8GB GDDR chips were just announce a couple years ago, I think they would be the best option for the next gen consoles. You could fit 8-12 of them on a system so somewhere between the 64GB to 96GB range is probably going to be the target. In order to hit the crazy 144GB trend amount, they would need to be using 16GB chips which were only recently announced.
I would guess 64GB since it's going to be plenty and would be more than you expect, which console manufacturers always seem to shock us with when specs are announced.
Which is why I suggested enough DDR4 to be adequate, say 2-4GB and then separately 6-12 GDDR5. Giving both major components more of the appropriate memory needed.
I’ll change my example some. There’s a reason GPUs use GDDR5 instead of DDR3/4.
https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwrevie...1030-gddr5-benchmark-worst-graphics-card-2018
A VERY relevant link for that example. To my knowledge it works some what viceversa for CPUs due to their type of workload.
Yep. The Jaguar APU is a turd of a CPU even back in 2013, at some point even the best CPU will become the bottleneck; however I’m talking about Ryzen, another relevant link for you.
https://www.legitreviews.com/ddr4-m...tform-best-memory-kit-amd-ryzen-cpus_192259/6
Ryzen scales quite well with faster memory. Hence why I think they might go with a small amount of high speed dual channel DDR4. It brings out the best of the hardware.
I went back and read again. I think I read about Hynix announcing 8GB DDR5 ram and misread it as GDDR5. So I misread that, and apologize.The current largest memory chips are 16Gb (DDR4/GDDR6). That's 16 gigabits or 2 Gigabytes. Most current GPUs use 8Gb chips. That includes the 8GB RX480/580/590, the 6GB GTX 1060, the 8GB 1070, 1070 Ti (all GDDR5) and the GTX 1080, 1080 Ti (GDDR5X), and the RTX 2070, 2080, and 2080 TI (GDDR6). The PS4, PS4 Pro and XB1X also use 8Gb GDDR5 chips, and the XB1 uses 8Gb DDR3 chips. FWIW, the GP100, GV100, and Vega all use 8Gb HBM2 dies (4 or 8 per stack and then 2-4 stacks depending on the sku). Fury used 2Gb HBM dies (4per stack and 4 stacks).
8GB (64Gb) or 16GB (128Gb) chips probably won't exist for quite some time.