PS5, Next Xbox Will Likely Have 8 to 12GB of RAM, Says Hellpoint Dev

[Megalith]

In yet another round of next-generation console speculation, Hellpoint developer Marc-André Jutras has returned with the theory that the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Scarlett will sport 8 to 12GB of RAM. Jutras also suspects the consoles will feature dedicated VRAM instead of a unified memory pool (both the PS4 and Xbox One utilize a shared-RAM configuration) in order to achieve 4K graphics.

“One thing that is going to change will be, you will get a lot more focus on the VRAM, which is the big bottleneck right now if you want good 4K games, because 4K frame buffer takes a lot of space,” he said. “So if you end up with a 4K buffer, you need four times the VRAM. So I think you will see, you won’t see shared RAM space next gen like you do with the PS4. I don’t think you will see that because it’s a big bottleneck. You’ll see more VRAM to support 4K and 5K and whatever else comes around.”

 

[steakman1971]

I think they need to be careful with the price point of consoles. To me, $299 to $399 are magic numbers (of course, cheaper is better). I wonder if they would sell a 1080p model cheaper vs a 4k model (like a Pro)?

 

[SeymourGore]

I think they need to be careful with the price point of consoles. To me, $299 to $399 are magic numbers (of course, cheaper is better). I wonder if they would sell a 1080p model cheaper vs a 4k model (like a Pro)?

Pachter thinks they will have a lower tier model alongside 4k.

 

[Nolan7689]

Not exactly a new concept for them to have separate RAM pools though. PS4 is actually the departure for Sony in that regard, though I think MS has always gone with shared memory.

 

[R_Type]

I think they need to be careful with the price point of consoles. To me, $299 to $399 are magic numbers (of course, cheaper is better). I wonder if they would sell a 1080p model cheaper vs a 4k model (like a Pro)?

If they are brave and go for 399 and up the power budget to say 300 watts... That's a biiiig leap in performance over even say an Xbox one X

 

[harbingerofdoom]

another thing thats going to change is my desire to buy one. i bought a ps4, its collecting dust now.

 

[gxp500]

Lol 4k riiiight

 

[harmattan]

another thing thats going to change is my desire to buy one. i bought a ps4, its collecting dust now.

Got mine midnight on release night (2013?). It's seen maybe 100hrs of use in 5 years. $500+ for a few top tier titles is just not worth it.

That said, I really hope the new gen consoles push the envelope, unlike ps4 and xbox one which were using underpowered and outmoded hardware on release. At least that would up the notch for console ports.

 

[Shadowed]

Lol 4k riiiight

I think 4k60 is a reasonable target. If not, I'd be sad to see 4k30. At least there are some 4k60 games on Xbox and PS4.

 

[umeng2002]

I hope they keep it unified. It simply gives devs more flexibility.

We need an increase in game complexity that new, updated CPU cores allow. We don't need PS4/ X1 graphics just running at a slightly higher resolution and frame rate.

 

[naib]

is that all?

 

[ChoGGi]

That said, I really hope the new gen consoles push the envelope, unlike ps4 and xbox one which were using underpowered and outmoded hardware on release. At least that would up the notch for console ports.

Doubtful, if they don't do some long term testing then consumers will complain about failing hardware and return it. Not that we don't get stuff like the "red ring of failure" or whatever it was called.

 

[jfreund]

How about an APU with integrated HBM?

 

[oldmanbal]

Again, this will be great for the 4k pc gaming community, which at the moment is a very elite group (o.1% ?). Moving ahead, depending on what AMD releases for their mainstream GPU refresh, it could enable a new generation of gamers to playable 4k. As long as they don't decided to force cloud computing into the consoles, the PC will only benefit from 8-16gb gaming memory.

 

[Tak Ne]

Lol 4k riiiight

800p upscaled to 4k is still 4k.

 

[gamerk2]

I hope they keep it unified. It simply gives devs more flexibility.

No it doesn't; it's actually much harder to manage because you have to micromanage how much RAM is used by the non-graphical engine versus how much the graphical engine needs at any one time. It's annoying, and typically ends up with compromises having to be made across the board to make sure everything fits in the allocated space. With dedicated pools, you know ahead of time how much space you have, and that makes it far easier to manage.

There's a reason why even laptops are smart enough to pre-allocate a specified amount of RAM as VRAM; you never want to handle that dynamically.

 

[Shmee]

12GB seems like the minimum. The Xbox One X has 12, and it needs all of it for 4K30 games, so I am guessing we'll see 16GB.

 

[Kor]

They already do...

 

[xp3nd4bl3]

All wrong. They certainly won’t be less than 16GB. And if it’s not unified memory it won’t be because of bandwidth issues, it will be due to monolithic die costs.

 

[swatbat]

12GB seems like the minimum. The Xbox One X has 12, and it needs all of it for 4K30 games, so I am guessing we'll see 16GB.

That was my thought as well. I don't see the next xbox having less than 12 gigs, I'd think it will have 16.

 

[Red Falcon]

Not exactly a new concept for them to have separate RAM pools though. PS4 is actually the departure for Sony in that regard, though I think MS has always gone with shared memory.

The original XBox had separate RAM and VRAM, and while the 360 did use a shared memory pool, it was not unified memory.
Unified RAM helps on both storage, latency (doesn't need to copy the same memory twice), and bandwidth, not to mention a lower production and sales cost - I think it would be foolish for either of them to move away from this model.

 

[daglesj]

8GB of ESRAM and 8GB of GDDR5DDR4 whatever for 16GB combined.

Cheap as chips lol.

Nice big die too!

 

[Nightfire]

That was my thought as well. I don't see the next xbox having less than 12 gigs, I'd think it will have 16.

The article speculates 8 GB vRAm + 8-12 GB Ram for a total of 16-20 GB. I would rather have the 12 GB of GDDR5 running 384 bit in my One X. The "total amount" is less, but it is more effective in gaming.

“One thing that is going to change will be, you will get a lot more focus on the VRAM, which is the big bottleneck right now if you want good 4K games, because 4K frame buffer takes a lot of space,”
This is complete bullshit. 4k does NOT require 4x the Vram and the 12 GB of vRam is NOT holding back the OneX.
https://hardforum.com/threads/the-slowing-growth-of-vram-in-games.1971558/

At most, going from 1080p to 4k doubles the VRAM usage.

 

[Armenius]

Pachter thinks they will have a lower tier model alongside 4k.

Pachter also thought the 7th generation would be the last console generation, that the Wii would be the worst selling console of said generation, and that Take-Two Interactive being bought be EA was an inevitability. For such a "respected" industry analyst, Pachter is wrong most of the time.

is that all?

Was my thought initially, as well. But reading the article he is actually speculating that they will have 8GB of system RAM and 8GB of VRAM for 16GB total.

12GB seems like the minimum. The Xbox One X has 12, and it needs all of it for 4K30 games, so I am guessing we'll see 16GB.

Only 9GB out of the 12GB total is made available to games. It's certainly better than the 7GB on the standard Xbox, but that still only typically leaves 4-5GB dedicated to the framebuffer. 8GB dedicated VRAM would definitely be a boon for 4K.

 

[gxp500]

800p upscaled to 4k is still 4k.

Bingo, i think they'll be up scaling everything to 4k rather than rendering it at 4k... no console user will ever know the difference.

 

[griff30]

If a new Twisted Metal come out on PS5 it will be the only reason I would buy one.

 

[Tbird87]

I think 4k60 is a reasonable target. If not, I'd be sad to see 4k30. At least there are some 4k60 games on Xbox and PS4.

Monster hunter at 4k on my GTX 1080 makes me sad. I've been playing 1440p@120hz on my 75inch and that seems to be the sweet spot imo. Looks closer to 4k than it does to 1080p, keeps a little of the crispyness. Performance is night and day compared to 4k. I'm hoping they can hit that target though, 2019 should be interesting.

 

[exlink]

Consoles are typically expected to “last” at least 7 years. Releasing one in late 2019 or 2020 with only 8GB of RAM would be a mistake. By 2027 that amount would likely cause some development issues on more ambitious titles.

They need to opt for at least 12GB of system RAM and hopefully at least 6GB of VRAM to make these consoles worthwhile in the long run. But I could see them doing a 8GB system RAM/3GB VRAM launch unit to keep prices down and then a 12GB RAM/6GB VRAM mid-cycle refresh after 3 years.

 

[Domingo]

IDGAF what the specs are unless they're shooting for 60fps, full backwards compatibility, and SSDs. Those are literally the only things I care about for this upcoming generation.

 

[Armenius]

IDGAF what the specs are unless they're shooting for 60fps, full backwards compatibility, and SSDs. Those are literally the only things I care about for this upcoming generation.

With the consoles now using x86 I would imagine it taking more effort for the upcoming generation to not be backward compatible.

 

[bigdogchris]

16GB sounds absolutely reasonable for a 4k system, but it certainly does not follow the trends:

Sony:
PS1 - 3MB
PS2 - 36MB (12x more than PS1 )
PS3 - 512MB (14x more than PS2)
PS4 - 8192MB (16x more than PS3)
PS5 - ?????

Microsoft:
Xbox - 64MB
360 - 522MB (approx. 8x more than Xbox)
One - 8224MB (approx. 16x more than 360)
Xbox 4 - ?????

 

[Armenius]

16GB sounds absolutely reasonable for a 4k system, but it certainly does not follow the trends:

Sony:
PS1 - 3MB
PS2 - 36MB (12x more than PS1 )
PS3 - 512MB (14x more than PS2)
PS4 - 8192MB (16x more than PS3)
PS5 - ?????

Microsoft:
Xbox - 64MB
360 - 522MB (approx. 8x more than Xbox)
One - 8224MB (approx. 16x more than 360)
Xbox 4 - ?????

256GB? Sounds reasonable.

 

[bigdogchris]

The Xbox One X uses 1GB memory chips which were announced and hit production in the 2008 time range. Considering 8GB GDDR chips were just announce a couple years ago, I think they would be the best option for the next gen consoles. You could fit 8-12 of them on a system so somewhere between the 64GB to 96GB range is probably going to be the target. In order to hit the crazy 144GB trend amount, they would need to be using 16GB chips which were only recently announced.

I would guess 64GB since it's going to be plenty and would be more than you expect, which console manufacturers always seem to shock us with when specs are announced.

 

[tului]

I think they need to be careful with the price point of consoles. To me, $299 to $399 are magic numbers (of course, cheaper is better). I wonder if they would sell a 1080p model cheaper vs a 4k model (like a Pro)?

There will be a poorf@g version and a good version. Poors can stream and dream of owning the 4k60fps version

 

[tului]

The article title is a bit clickbaity in that it gives the impression the RAM amounts will stagnate. In reality it may be "only" 8GB of RAM but if it's got 8GB of VRAM too then it will be equivalent to 16GB in the current gen terms.

I'm hoping Microsoft goes 12GB RAM 12GB VRAM tbh.

 

[tului]

With the consoles now using x86 I would imagine it taking more effort for the upcoming generation to not be backward compatible.

Especially with Microsoft, they have experience with games running on different windows versions, different CPU(but still x86) and varying amounts of RAM and GPU.

 

[chameleoneel]

No it doesn't; it's actually much harder to manage because you have to micromanage how much RAM is used by the non-graphical engine versus how much the graphical engine needs at any one time. It's annoying, and typically ends up with compromises having to be made across the board to make sure everything fits in the allocated space. With dedicated pools, you know ahead of time how much space you have, and that makes it far easier to manage.

There's a reason why even laptops are smart enough to pre-allocate a specified amount of RAM as VRAM; you never want to handle that dynamically.

I'm sure a standard feature of PS4 tools, is being able to soft lock a specified allocation. Keeping it unified means that devs are free to allocate appropriately for their engines. You could even do scene/area specific allocations. the unified APU architecture of the PS4 is of no detriment to performance. Its all GDDR5 and it has an additional bus so that that VRAM and System RAM usage can operate independently and with less wait states from the typical setup seen in PCs.

 

[NKD]

The Xbox One X uses 1Gb memory chips which were announced and hit production in the 2008 time range. Considering 8GB GDDR chips were just announce a couple years ago, I think they would be the best option for the next gen consoles. You could fit 8-12 of them on a system so somewhere between the 64GB to 96GB range is probably going to be the target. In order to hit the crazy 144GB trend amount, they would need to be using 16GB chips which were only recently announced.

I would guess 64GB since it's going to be plenty and would be more than you expect, which console manufacturers always seem to shock us with when specs are announced.

HUH? Not happening lol. WHy the hell in the world they would put 64GB of ram in there? It doesn't pass the common sense test. Trend doesn't make sense this time. You are coming from 512MB to 8Gb, 8gb is normal. Best you see is 16GB. You are not getting 64gb in a console lol.

 

[tului]

I'm sure a standard feature of PS4 tools, is being able to soft lock a specified allocation. Keeping it unified means that devs are free to allocate appropriately for their engines. You could even do scene/area specific allocations. the unified APU architecture of the PS4 is of no detriment to performance. Its all GDDR5 and it has an additional bus so that the VRAM and System RAM allocations can operate independently and with less wait states from the typical setup seen in PCs.

And them MS basically uses VMs, which I assume part of the reason is for memory allocation and separation.

 

[Armenius]

The Xbox One X uses 1Gb memory chips which were announced and hit production in the 2008 time range. Considering 8GB GDDR chips were just announce a couple years ago, I think they would be the best option for the next gen consoles. You could fit 8-12 of them on a system so somewhere between the 64GB to 96GB range is probably going to be the target. In order to hit the crazy 144GB trend amount, they would need to be using 16GB chips which were only recently announced.

I would guess 64GB since it's going to be plenty and would be more than you expect, which console manufacturers always seem to shock us with when specs are announced.

HUH? Not happening lol. WHy the hell in the world they would put 64GB of ram in there? It doesn't pass the common sense test. Trend doesn't make sense this time. You are coming from 512MB to 8Gb, 8gb is normal. Best you see is 16GB. You are not getting 64gb in a console lol.

You guys need to get your use of little 'b' and big 'B' straightened out because I'm really confused right now.