Win 10 1803, On My Computer

[B00nie]

If you truly believe that, then you are as ignorant as you sound.

It's a 100% fact. Be my guest and prove otherwise. All you can make is suggestions - you wish to boot at a certain time. MS may honor that maybe not. Certainly if you do not want to update at all, you will be stomped over without mercy.

 

[heatlesssun]

High end gaming is playing games. And you somehow compare it to using a computer for something business critical?

​

A high-end gaming rig can be a very complex piece of tech. Gaming can easily stress hardware far more than typical even business critical uses.

​

The fact is that a WIn10 user has no control over the computer. You're 100% at Microsofts mercy. They reboot your computer when they wish, they patch it when they wish, they collect the telemetry they wish. You don't get asked - and MS has deliberately obstructed you from taking these decisions even if you tried.

Even if it really were that bad, it's not one just installs Linux and everything is then totally perfect. Again, you're describing a scenario where it would it literally impossible to use Windows for anything. And yeah, especially high-end gaming.

 

[Brahmzy]

Install Shutup10. Most of the MS-control thing is easily solved..
Besides... what choice do you have?
Don’t say Linux.
You’ll have to face reality at some point soon. They’ll make sure of it.

 

[Chuklr]

There's a Microsoft Edge icon on my desktop now! FORMATTING AND INSTALLING LINUX.

I had the icon appear on the desktop, too. I deleted it.

EDIT: Changed "it" to "icon".

 

[criccio]

Huh, seems I had the Edge icon appear too, however I had to check the desktop folder as I have desktop icons hidden. This isn't 2003, clean your desktops! :-P

 

[odditory]

Besides... what choice do you have?
Don’t say Linux.
You’ll have to face reality at some point soon. They’ll make sure of it.

Windows 8.1 with Start8 or Classicshell is best of both worlds right now. SMP improvements to the kernel, without all the preinstalled MS crapware, forced updates and telemetry.

Since DX12 has gone nowhere and developers are ignoring it due to Win7's enduring marketshare, 8.1 plays all your Steam games exactly the same.

 

[heatlesssun]

Windows 8.1 with Start8 or Classicshell is best of both worlds right now. SMP improvements to the kernel, without all the preinstalled MS crapware, forced updates and telemetry.

Since DX12 has gone nowhere and developers are ignoring it due to Win7's enduring marketshare, 8.1 plays all your Steam games exactly the same.

It might be the best of both worlds, if you're not one that started using Windows 10 and have been on it for three years now. It's easy to sit back and bash Windows 10 but if you've been on it and just used what's there and it worked there's nothing to be gained by going back. I'm not going to go back and retrofit my sig rig that's been running fine under Windows 10 for almost two years now. And I wouldn't even both with something like a Surface Book 2.

Windows 10 has it's problems and critics but it's also not Windows Vista or 8.x. It's being adopted in the enterprise unlike those two and Windows 7 has about 19 months of life. Microsoft may extend the time frame but I doubt it's going to be like XP that got a number of new leases on life, well past its prime.

 

[B00nie]

A high-end gaming rig can be a very complex piece of tech. Gaming can easily stress hardware far more than typical even business critical uses.​

Nobody gives a flying fuck about games and VR heatlessun. What are you, 12? Business is where the buck stops.

 

[B00nie]

Install Shutup10. Most of the MS-control thing is easily solved..
Besides... what choice do you have?
Don’t say Linux.
You’ll have to face reality at some point soon. They’ll make sure of it.

Choices are Mac or Linux. You can do 100% of the office work with them and business software is largely cloud based as it is so it's OS agnostic. You might need a virtual windows for some badly made software that runs only on windows. Even so, having Windows virtualized gives huge benefits. Easy snapshots if something gets broken and you want to revert to last weeks version and sandboxed operation so any windows nasties won't invade your main OS.

I have been raving about how my maintenance time dropped when moving from windows to Mac. Yesterday was the first time in 6 years I had to do anything maintenance related to any of my Macs. I had to reinstall OSX due to some bug in the developer beta versions I've been running for a year. Moved back to normal version and I expect to get another 6 years with zero maintenance.

 

[Brahmzy]

LOL ^

Gross blanket statements here. Every business will have its own software requirements- many of which require Windows, period. Virtualizing Windows has nothing to do with this conversation. The fact is so much software for so many businesses and home users is only written for Windows. You’ve got tunnel vision and are only thinking about your little niche business.

 

[B00nie]

LOL ^

Gross blanket statements here. Every business will have its own software requirements- many of which require Windows, period. Virtualizing Windows has nothing to do with this conversation. The fact is so much software for so many businesses and home users is only written for Windows. You’ve got tunnel vision and are only thinking about your little niche business.

No, you're living in a prehistoric world where applications are built on Windows. I used to work in maintenance field and remember well the horrors of having to CPR Windows 3.11, 95 and XP laptops due to grossly incompetently built automation softwares. Any sane company will do everything possible to break away from vendor lockups.

 

[Brahmzy]

^ Again, reality says you’re wrong.

 

[heatlesssun]

Nobody gives a flying fuck about games and VR heatlessun. What are you, 12? Business is where the buck stops.

LOL! That's funny on a site whose content is focused on gaming and discusses VR extensively.

 

[B00nie]

^ Again, reality says you’re wrong.

Again reality says you're behind the curve.

 

[B00nie]

LOL! That's funny on a site whose content is focused on gaming and discusses VR extensively.

Not really in the context of the discussion. You can't even begin to compare something business critical with some game. You don't lose lives over a game gone bad by MS deciding to force boot your computer.

 

[heatlesssun]

You can't even begin to compare something business critical with some game.

I was never trying to. My point is that is a high-end PC can be a very complex device and that if it can handle gaming it'll also handle just about anything else on a client desktop, including business critical functions. Of course something that's packed to gills with all sorts of hardware and overclocked isn't for that purpose, something business critical shouldn't have extraneous hardware or software installed.

 

[Brahmzy]

Again reality says you're behind the curve.

This has nothing to do with me. This has everything to do with thousands of large Enterprises still running TONs of Windows boxes for critical apps.
Tell all those companies your great misguided opinions.
Get real and pull your head out of the sand. You're obviously narrow minded and stuck in your own tiny world.

 

[B00nie]

This has nothing to do with me. This has everything to do with thousands of large Enterprises still running TONs of Windows boxes for critical apps.
Tell all those companies your great misguided opinions.
Get real and pull your head out of the sand. You're obviously narrow minded and stuck in your own tiny world.

Yeah thousands of large Enterprises suffering from horrible bad decisions of the past. But don't worry the tide is turning - which Microsoft also acknowledges and they're hastely dumping the Windows platform for cloud services.

I can't help it if you're stuck in thinking inside the box and repeating past mistakes. I wouldn't want to be you.

 

[Brahmzy]

Again, nothing to do with me. You still are very focused on me, which is very strange. Creepy. I don't make the decisions for thousands of Enterprise companies. I have to support this stuff though.

 

[heatlesssun]

Again, nothing to do with me. You still are very focused on me, which is very strange. Creepy. I don't make the decisions for thousands of Enterprise companies. I have to support this stuff though.

There's just a lot of nonsense that flies around the subject of Windows 10. I've personally spent about 10k on PC hardware in the last two years, my sig rig and a Surface Book 2 15" 512GB model. Windows 10 supports everything I need for work and want for play those devices. I can't install any Linux distro and get the same results. If I could without any of this issues of Windows 10 I would have run Linux as hosts on these devices long ago. And I get that the Surface Book 2 is a Microsoft device, I'd have been happy to pick up a Linux 2 in 1 with similar capabilities.

 

[AltTabbins]

I’ve deployed it on a handful of new laptops this week. A mix of Surface Pro 2018’s, XPS 13’s, and Lattitide 5590’s, and it’s been great. No issues with our systems and I like some of the changes. The dpi fix works especially well on the higher res displays. We are going to wait to deploy it company wide, but so far so good.

 

[bigdogchris]

Upgraded a second computer (older Dell laptop) from 1709 to 1803 just now and it went quick and smoothy. I did need to go back into settings and click retry though. When I ran update there were a few older updates (laptop is rarely used) that also tried installing at the same time. It probably had to let them finish first then I just manually rescanned for updates to finish the 1803 immediately.

 

[odditory]

The dpi fix works especially well on the higher res displays. We are going to wait to deploy it company wide, but so far so good.

Seems like they've been screwing around with "fixing" high DPI for six years now, and have claimed its "finally fixed" at least a dozen times over the years. Maybe by 2025 they'll finally fix HDR.

 

[heatlesssun]

Seems like they've been screwing around with "fixing" high DPI for six years now, and have claimed its "finally fixed" at least a dozen times over the years. Maybe by 2025 they'll finally fix HDR.

With all of the legacy apps out there that were never designed to run with high DPI monitors, this issue will never be finally fixed. However it's MUCH better and newer apps tend to be DPI aware. The Steam client recently finally became high DPI aware under Windows 10. There will always be issues with this especially with older software but this one of the areas where Windows 10 is way better than prior versions.

 

[odditory]

With all of the legacy apps out there that were never designed to run with high DPI monitors, this issue will never be finally fixed. However it's MUCH better and newer apps tend to be DPI aware. The Steam client recently finally became high DPI aware under Windows 10. There will always be issues with this especially with older software but this one of the areas where Windows 10 is way better than prior versions.

Are you claiming Steam became high DPI aware only under Windows 10? Or just became high DPI aware? In other words if it became high DPI aware in 8.1 as well then it had nothing to do with anything "way better" in 10. I'm guessing you're referring to store apps when you say it's "way better" (In which case WGAF, don't use those, like most people).

When I did A/B testing on W10 1709 vs Windows 8.1, with scaling set to 125% on a 4K monitor my programs looked exactly the same on both. That was actually a concern prior to throwing in the towel on Windows 10 finally and rolling back to 8.1, but the differences overall were negligible. I lost literally nothing by erasing 10, and regained privacy, control over updates, and ultimately sanity. All my Steam games, VR titles, programs all work and perform exactly the same.

 

[heatlesssun]

Are you claiming Steam became high DPI aware only under Windows 10? Or just became high DPI aware? In other words if it became high DPI aware in 8.1 as well then it has fuckall to do with 10.

Added high-DPI monitor support when running under Windows 10 with the 2017 Creators Update

https://store.steampowered.com/news/38412/

BIG difference on my Surface Book 2 and gaming on my 43" 4k Sammy, but especially the SB 2.

As for Windows 10 being "way better" than 8.1 in high DPI, that wasn't my experience. When I did A/B testing W10 1709 vs Windows 8.1, with scaling set to 125% on a 4K monitor my programs looked exactly the same on both. That was actually a concern prior to throwing in the towel on Windows 10 finally and rolling back to 8.1, but the differences overall were negligible. I lost really nothing and regained some privacy and control over updates, and ultimately sanity.

125% scaling is kind of on the low side. My Surface Book 2 defaults to 200%. And Windows 10 does a much better job with a mix of high and low DPI monitors.

 

[Mazzspeed]

As far as I'm aware HiDPI support regarding Steam was added irregardless of OS, at least in beta.

 

[heatlesssun]

As far as I'm aware HiDPI support regarding Steam was added irregardless of OS, at least in beta.

The release notes from Steam said from the beginning even in beta Windows 10 1709 or better. May it does work in other Windows versions, I've not tried that, but it's a HUGE improvement from my experience in Windows 10.

 

[Mazzspeed]

The release notes from Steam said from the beginning even in beta Windows 10 1709 or better. May it does work in other Windows versions, I've not tried that, but it's a HUGE improvement from my experience in Windows 10.

There's more operating systems running Steam than just Windows. The issue regarding Steam and HiDPI was related to the Steam UI, not with Windows specifically.

 

[heatlesssun]

There's more operating systems running Steam than just Windows. The issue regarding Steam and HiDPI was related to the Steam UI, not with Windows specifically.

The question asked of me was about Windows and the release notes from Valve state plainly that their high DPI support for Windows only works in Windows 10 1709 or better. Not really sure what the issue is here with Steam release notes. If the high DPI scaling in the Steam client works with other versions of Windows Steam didn't say so.

 

[ManofGod]

1803 is definitely a good release, unlike 1709, which although mostly worked, had issues that lead me to believe that was their worse release.

 

[mvmiller12]

This discussion seems to have largely degenerated into a bunch of people pissing into the wind at each other........

This discussion is supposed to be loosely about people's experiences after having gotten the Windows 10 1803 update installed. If you are not running Windows 10 1803, (and especially if you have no intention of running Windows 10 1803), you don't really have anything constructive to add to this conversation.

 

[primetime]

Seeing as they aren't actually updates but a FULL INSTALL masquerading as an update, yes it's pretty typical that programs are lost in the transition - Microsoft doesn't care what you had installed, they only care that they remove your telemetry blocks, regedits, GPO settings and default program handlers back to MS defaults.

When considered in retrospect, these seasonal Featureless Updates have turned out to be more compliance enforcement updates than packing any useful new features for desktop users.

So much truth lol

 

[primetime]

It's a 100% fact. Be my guest and prove otherwise. All you can make is suggestions - you wish to boot at a certain time. MS may honor that maybe not. Certainly if you do not want to update at all, you will be stomped over without mercy.

It's funny really.....but also pretty accurate

 

[heatlesssun]

If you are not running Windows 10 1803, (and especially if you have no intention of running Windows 10 1803), you don't really have anything constructive to add to this conversation.

Things too often go nuts over the simplest of things. I simply mentioned the high DPI support in the Steam client for Windows 10 that Steam said in their release notes was ONLY for Windows 10 and then it becomes a subject for debate? If you use Steam on Windows 10 on high DPI devices it was REALLY hard to miss this. If you're running Steam on other versions of Windows on high DPI screens and haven't noticed the difference, then yeah, it was in the release notes why.

 

[Mazzspeed]

Things too often go nuts over the simplest of things. I simply mentioned the high DPI support in the Steam client for Windows 10 that Steam said in their release notes was ONLY for Windows 10 and then it becomes a subject for debate? If you use Steam on Windows 10 on high DPI devices it was REALLY hard to miss this. If you're running Steam on other versions of Windows on high DPI screens and haven't noticed the difference, then yeah, it was in the release notes why.

The point you seem to be missing is that the improved scaling has more to do with improvements to the Steam UI itself across all platforms than changes to Windows. No ones disputing what the release notes claim. Calm down.

 

[heatlesssun]

The point you seem to be missing is that the improved scaling has more to do with improvements to the Steam UI itself across all platforms than changes to Windows. No ones disputing what the release notes claim. Calm down.

This is a Windows 10 thread and the question asked of me had to do with Steam high-DPI support under Windows 8.1 which according to Steam's release notes isn't there. If Windows 8.1 or 7 for that matter have the same support, it's not mentioned by Steam and no one has provided any examples that works as well of better under 8.1 or 7. When 10 supports cool feature it's common for folks to fly off the handle, never even having tried what was in question, and just say "It's not only Windows 10." Fine, argue with the release notes here.

Plus the release notes here don't say anything about high-DPI support under other OSes. They do mention 2x scaling under Linux in 4k which isn't exactly the same thing as high-DPI support.

Beyond that, have you gone through multiple OSes testing high-DPI support relative to before this support was added? I simply referred to the release notes and what was readily obvious in what I use constantly. ​

 

[B00nie]

Again, nothing to do with me. You still are very focused on me, which is very strange. Creepy. I don't make the decisions for thousands of Enterprise companies. I have to support this stuff though.

Since when replying to your comment is 'focusing on you'? Again, I wouldn't want to be you and having to support the MS nightmare on an enterprise level.

 

[Mazzspeed]

Plus the release notes here don't say anything about high-DPI support under other OSes. They do mention 2x scaling under Linux in 4k which isn't exactly the same thing as high-DPI support.

Fractal scaling isn't really there yet under Linux, therefore 2x scaling is HiDPI. Effective HiDPI scaling has more to do with the application than the OS in order to look good, even OSX cheats to a degree when it comes to scaling as fractal scaling alone still has drawbacks as you can't render half a pixel.

Scaling has been available since Windows 7 and the Steam client now has the option to scale text and icons under Windows 7, which has been a long time coming under any OS.

 

[heatlesssun]

Scaling has been available since Windows 7 and the Steam client now has the option to scale text and icons under Windows 7, which has been a long time coming under any OS.

These release notes say nothing about Windows 7, 8.1 or even 10 prior to 1709 getting high DPI support and I've not seen anything from Steam about such support.