Vega Rumors

AMD does have the vocal minority. When you look at Reddit, their subreddit outnumbers Nvidia and Intel combined. Most commenta on a social media sites are mostly pro-AMD and anti-nvidia/intel.

I think this phenomenon is due to their fanboys being disappointed by their products and that they are venting their fustration out on Nvidia and Intel LOL
 
realworld said:
AMD does have the vocal minority. When you look at Reddit, their subreddit outnumbers Nvidia and Intel combined. Most commenta on a social media sites are mostly pro-AMD and anti-nvidia/intel.

I think this phenomenon is due to their fanboys being disappointed by their products and that they are venting their fustration out on Nvidia and Intel LOL
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Being a reader on this forum, it does not seem like AMD outnumbers a damn thing, there are a lot of AMD haters that camp out on amd graphics forums for the sole purpose of spinning and shitting on amd cards as much as is feasible given the data. Sometimes amd helps in this regard, but the behavior by the usual suspects is constant across time. They are far more negatives towards AMD than I am negative towards nvidia. I don't even spend much time thinking about nvidia as an amd fanboy aside from issues where I saw there activities directly harming amd performance like gameworks in the past, but it's interesting that part of their satisfaction being part of the nvidia loving tribe is a sort of constant parade and calling out of the failure of their enemy when it does not perform as well.

Nvidia wins ought to make their supporters cheer, but instead of a standard victory lap, we get something closer to this

https://media.giphy.com/media/RL0xU1daTlMoE/giphy.gif


Do I even need to bother linking the negan clip? There is a delight in this activity, and this is why the nvidia loving side is the most tribal of all.
 
tybert7 said:
Being a reader on this forum, it does not seem like AMD outnumbers a damn thing, there are a lot of AMD haters that camp out on amd graphics forums for the sole purpose of spinning and shitting on amd cards as much as is feasible given the data. Sometimes amd helps in this regard, but the behavior by the usual suspects is constant across time. They are far more negatives towards AMD than I am negative towards nvidia. I don't even spend much time thinking about nvidia as an amd fanboy aside from issues where I saw there activities directly harming amd performance like gameworks in the past, but it's interesting that part of their satisfaction being part of the nvidia loving tribe is a sort of constant parade and calling out of the failure of their enemy when it does not perform as well.

Nvidia wins ought to make their supporters cheer, but instead of a standard victory lap, we get something closer to this

https://media.giphy.com/media/RL0xU1daTlMoE/giphy.gif


Do I even need to bother linking the negan clip? There is a delight in this activity, and this is why the nvidia loving side is the most tribal of all.
Click to expand...
The demographics on this forum are completely different. I think you'd find that the majority of users here generally have more cash to throw down and don't really give a shit who it goes to.. so long as the card performs.

Not possible negativity toward AMD could be related to the fact they put out stinkers all the time? Noooo..
 
tybert7 said:
Being a reader on this forum, it does not seem like AMD outnumbers a damn thing, there are a lot of AMD haters that camp out on amd graphics forums for the sole purpose of spinning and shitting on amd cards as much as is feasible given the data. Sometimes amd helps in this regard, but the behavior by the usual suspects is constant across time. They are far more negatives towards AMD than I am negative towards nvidia. I don't even spend much time thinking about nvidia as an amd fanboy aside from issues where I saw there activities directly harming amd performance like gameworks in the past, but it's interesting that part of their satisfaction being part of the nvidia loving tribe is a sort of constant parade and calling out of the failure of their enemy when it does not perform as well.

Nvidia wins ought to make their supporters cheer, but instead of a standard victory lap, we get something closer to this

https://media.giphy.com/media/RL0xU1daTlMoE/giphy.gif


Do I even need to bother linking the negan clip? There is a delight in this activity, and this is why the nvidia loving side is the most tribal of all.
Click to expand...


The problem is if you're realistic and base your base opinion off of reality and history, and not AMD PR, it is going to sound negative for AMD. They've fucked up every launch in recent memory.

I just keep coming back to see if they messed up this launch as well and there's hope or the terrible performance is inherent to Vega.

My monitor is 60Hz. I'd gave no problem going back to AMD if it made sense. I had 3x7970, 270x, Fury X...
 
tacos4me said:
The demographics on this forum are completely different. I think you'd find that the majority of users here generally have more cash to throw down and don't really give a shit who it goes to.. so long as the card performs.

Not possible negativity toward AMD could be related to the fact they put out stinkers all the time? Noooo..
Click to expand...


I remember when hawaii was released, it beat nvidias offerings, Kyle was quite positive towards it for pure performance reasons. But we still got the usual crowd.

Look how HOT Hawaii runs, look at that power draw, look at the state of amd drivers vs nvidia, and how about that shadowplay?

I've done sales before, I know the script, you take whatever advantage you have and leverage that, and whatever negative the opposing product has, and highlight that. Plenty of that went on even when amd had the dominant performance part. They can't just admit they are fanboys, not there purely for the performance.

I admit my fanboyism. I have an affinity for amd, that has nothing to due with pure logic and rationality. If I only ever bought was offered the most performance, I would not have amd now, if I only bought what had the best performance per dollar, I might buy amd in some tiers, but not at the top tier at the moment. But not them, they will never yield the point, they are like the hiv retrovirus, one area of the shell of their core fanboyism is attacked and removed, they reshuffle and have something else that is not susceptible to the same attack.
 
tybert7 said:
I remember when hawaii was released, it beat nvidias offerings, Kyle was quite positive towards it for pure performance reasons. But we still got the usual crowd.

Look how HOT Hawaii runs, look at that power draw, look at the state of amd drivers vs nvidia, and how about that shadowplay?

I've done sales before, I know the script, you take whatever advantage you have and leverage that, and whatever negative the opposing product has, and highlight that. Plenty of that went on even when amd had the dominant performance part. They can't just admit they are fanboys, not there purely for the performance.

I admit my fanboyism. I have an affinity for amd, that has nothing to due with pure logic and rationality. If I only ever bought was offered the most performance, I would not have amd now, if I only bought what had the best performance per dollar, I might buy amd in some tiers, but not at the top tier at the moment. But not them, they will never yield the point, they are like the hiv retrovirus, one area of the shell of their core fanboyism is attacked and removed, they reshuffle and have something else that is not susceptible to the same attack.
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I mean, that's fine, I prefer Nvidia stuff personally. Not because green, or I feel as though I need to defend/reinforce a purchase decision in my mind.. but because they generally work better and use less power.

Had Vega pre-ordered. I'd be the first to praise Vega were it worthy of it, and I think most others commenting in here would do the same. But, based on what we've seen so far.. it's not good, and that's the bottom line. This happens more often with AMD products, unfortunately. It's in everyone's best interest for their products to perform well, no matter your personal allegiance. I don't get the fanboy stuff I guess.
 
tybert7 said:
I remember when hawaii was released, it beat nvidias offerings, Kyle was quite positive towards it for pure performance reasons. But we still got the usual crowd.

Look how HOT Hawaii runs, look at that power draw, look at the state of amd drivers vs nvidia, and how about that shadowplay?

I've done sales before, I know the script, you take whatever advantage you have and leverage that, and whatever negative the opposing product has, and highlight that. Plenty of that went on even when amd had the dominant performance part. They can't just admit they are fanboys, not there purely for the performance.

I admit my fanboyism. I have an affinity for amd, that has nothing to due with pure logic and rationality. If I only ever bought was offered the most performance, I would not have amd now, if I only bought what had the best performance per dollar, I might buy amd in some tiers, but not at the top tier at the moment. But not them, they will never yield the point, they are like the hiv retrovirus, one area of the shell of their core fanboyism is attacked and removed, they reshuffle and have something else that is not susceptible to the same attack.
Click to expand...

Oh! My favorite AMD launch! Maybe if they gave it an adequate cooler we wouldn't have these videos:

 
tybert7 said:
I remember when hawaii was released, it beat nvidias offerings, Kyle was quite positive towards it for pure performance reasons. But we still got the usual crowd.

Look how HOT Hawaii runs, look at that power draw, look at the state of amd drivers vs nvidia, and how about that shadowplay?

I've done sales before, I know the script, you take whatever advantage you have and leverage that, and whatever negative the opposing product has, and highlight that. Plenty of that went on even when amd had the dominant performance part. They can't just admit they are fanboys, not there purely for the performance.

I admit my fanboyism. I have an affinity for amd, that has nothing to due with pure logic and rationality. If I only ever bought was offered the most performance, I would not have amd now, if I only bought what had the best performance per dollar, I might buy amd in some tiers, but not at the top tier at the moment. But not them, they will never yield the point, they are like the hiv retrovirus, one area of the shell of their core fanboyism is attacked and removed, they reshuffle and have something else that is not susceptible to the same attack.
Click to expand...
I went from a 290 -> 1070, performance aside, it was like going from Kia, to Mercedes. The support behind nVidia products alone far outweigh AMD, its nice not having to CMD every fucking driver update to get my Korean monitor back to 96hz. Its fucking nice having driver updates at AAA release, or the following day, Its also fucking nice having a room that's not hot as fuck, etc.
 

Quote from theedgeace on reddit "The reason its not doing tiled rasterization is it has not been "turned on" yet. Vega is using the fallback rendering method instead of tiled.

When it was first discovered that Maxwell used tiled based rendering there was talk about a lot of software that needed to be written or rewritten in order to utilize it correctly and Nvidia implemented that in their drivers.

Vega is using a predominantly Fiji driver and this feature has not been "turned on" actually all but one of the new features in Vega is not functional right now the exception being the pixel engine being connected to the L2 cache as that is hardwired. I tore apart the new drivers in IDA today and the code paths between Fiji and Vega are very close and only differ slightly.

This arch is a massive change from anything they have released with GCN. They built in fallbacks in the hardware because of the massive changes. Its a protection against poorly written games and helps AMD have a starting point for driver development. Hell even architecturally Vega is essentially Fiji at its most basic thats why it is performing exactly like it because none of its new features are enabled or have a driver published for them yet. It is performing like a Fury X at 1400 MHz because that is exactly how every computer is treating it."
 
gigaxtreme1 said:
Quote from theedgeace on reddit "The reason its not doing tiled rasterization is it has not been "turned on" yet. Vega is using the fallback rendering method instead of tiled.
Click to expand...
We can't be sure about it either. there is a feasible scenario in which that particular software won't make any use of tiled raster even if it worked.
For one, there is no tile in which even a single triangle will fit, let alone all 3 required for binning, next every rendered pixel matters (for discard counter), so you can't just throw it out either.
Code is available, i want to see someone try and play around with triangle size and see what happens in this case.

And even if it is literally disabled, it is inexcusable either way if they are to release actual professional cards in months time.
 
tybert7 said:
Being a reader on this forum, it does not seem like AMD outnumbers a damn thing, there are a lot of AMD haters that camp out on amd graphics forums for the sole purpose of spinning and shitting on amd cards as much as is feasible given the data. Sometimes amd helps in this regard, but the behavior by the usual suspects is constant across time. They are far more negatives towards AMD than I am negative towards nvidia. I don't even spend much time thinking about nvidia as an amd fanboy aside from issues where I saw there activities directly harming amd performance like gameworks in the past, but it's interesting that part of their satisfaction being part of the nvidia loving tribe is a sort of constant parade and calling out of the failure of their enemy when it does not perform as well.

Nvidia wins ought to make their supporters cheer, but instead of a standard victory lap, we get something closer to this

https://media.giphy.com/media/RL0xU1daTlMoE/giphy.gif


Do I even need to bother linking the negan clip? There is a delight in this activity, and this is why the nvidia loving side is the most tribal of all.
Click to expand...


People here are damn realistic when it comes to AMD's capabilities and don't give a damn about who gets their money. nV has had better products for years now. AMD only 2 twice in its history has upset nV? And that was when nV f'ed up. Lets keep it real, AMD, ATi, never has a chance against nV unless nV makes mistakes on their GPU's.

Average age of forum member here is also older.

That is the difference!
 
gigaxtreme1 said:

Quote from theedgeace on reddit "The reason its not doing tiled rasterization is it has not been "turned on" yet. Vega is using the fallback rendering method instead of tiled.

When it was first discovered that Maxwell used tiled based rendering there was talk about a lot of software that needed to be written or rewritten in order to utilize it correctly and Nvidia implemented that in their drivers.

Vega is using a predominantly Fiji driver and this feature has not been "turned on" actually all but one of the new features in Vega is not functional right now the exception being the pixel engine being connected to the L2 cache as that is hardwired. I tore apart the new drivers in IDA today and the code paths between Fiji and Vega are very close and only differ slightly.

This arch is a massive change from anything they have released with GCN. They built in fallbacks in the hardware because of the massive changes. Its a protection against poorly written games and helps AMD have a starting point for driver development. Hell even architecturally Vega is essentially Fiji at its most basic thats why it is performing exactly like it because none of its new features are enabled or have a driver published for them yet. It is performing like a Fury X at 1400 MHz because that is exactly how every computer is treating it."
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Yeah it takes alot of software, but nV did it with the launch of Maxwell which well quite frankly AMD has had more time with Vega from Tape out to launch than nV did with Maxwell..... AMD had one year to make base drivers and optimizations, this guy is telling us one year isn't enough time for AMD's driver to team to make drivers. That is the same excuse Jensen gave for the FX, lets not fall for that one.

Why can't AMD get their driver team's act together. Does AMD driver team blow chunk's vs nV's driver team? I see them as very competive in the recent years and generations.

No this is a LOW LEVEL change in the way their architecture functions, if it was driver related it would be worked out before any other code is done like game or application optimizations. There are too many implications on game and application optimizations.

I just love the way people rationalize things!

What did I say a year ago "6 more months after polaris, that is NOT enough time to make that many changes to GCN." Please look back in my post history I stated this many times and many people argued with me.

And there you have it, the same front end problems of Polaris (which is better than previous GCN's but not by much) is holding back Vega.

Anyone that has ever looked into chip making knows this, so anyone that says otherwise, just don't know how these chips are made. 6 month turn around doesn't make a completely new uarch. Slightly modified uarch yeah.
 
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RTG is apparently pretty bitter about reviews of Radeon Vega FE that have been published and is considering denying sample units of Radeon RX Vega to sites that published reviews of Radeon Vega FE.

This is not a done deal and may not happen, but is currently under consideration.

Note: RTG functions as a semi autonomous group inside AMD akin to Hong Kong so whatever happens inside RTG doesn't apply to the rest of AMD.
 
_mockingbird said:
RTG is apparently pretty bitter about reviews of Radeon Vega FE that have been published and is considering denying sample units of Radeon RX Vega to sites that published reviews of Radeon Vega FE.

This is not a done deal and may not happen, but is currently under consideration.

Note: RTG functions as a semi autonomous group inside AMD akin to Hong Kong so whatever happens inside RTG doesn't apply to the rest of AMD.
Click to expand...


And people say nVidia is somehow more evil. I don't remember nVidia trying to censor reviews.
 
_mockingbird said:
RTG is apparently pretty bitter about reviews of Radeon Vega FE that have been published and is considering denying sample units of Radeon RX Vega to sites that published reviews of Radeon Vega FE.

This is not a done deal and may not happen, but is currently under consideration.

Note: RTG functions as a semi autonomous group inside AMD akin to Hong Kong so whatever happens inside RTG doesn't apply to the rest of AMD.
Click to expand...


well they should have know it was coming lol. Doesn't matter those sites already have Vega FE its pretty much RX Vega ;). Stupid for them to snub the press like that at this point cause if RX Vega is much different, then they would come out smelling like a rose. If they snub them and then RX Vega is the same Vega FE well it will make them look like a socialistic militant group goes along with their marketing campaign.. And we know AMD marketing isn't the smartest of the bunch.
 
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_mockingbird said:
RTG is apparently pretty bitter about reviews of Radeon Vega FE that have been published and is considering denying sample units of Radeon RX Vega to sites that published reviews of Radeon Vega FE.

This is not a done deal and may not happen, but is currently under consideration.

Note: RTG functions as a semi autonomous group inside AMD akin to Hong Kong so whatever happens inside RTG doesn't apply to the rest of AMD.
Click to expand...

I could imagine they are salty sailors about this, BUT IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT.
 
_mockingbird said:
RTG is apparently pretty bitter about reviews of Radeon Vega FE that have been published and is considering denying sample units of Radeon RX Vega to sites that published reviews of Radeon Vega FE.

This is not a done deal and may not happen, but is currently under consideration.

Note: RTG functions as a semi autonomous group inside AMD akin to Hong Kong so whatever happens inside RTG doesn't apply to the rest of AMD.
Click to expand...

I certainly hope this is not even considered. I wouldn't condone that at all. All you can ask of a reviewer is an acurate honest assessment. Nothing more and nothing less.
 
_mockingbird said:
RTG is apparently pretty bitter about reviews of Radeon Vega FE that have been published and is considering denying sample units of Radeon RX Vega to sites that published reviews of Radeon Vega FE.

This is not a done deal and may not happen, but is currently under consideration.

Note: RTG functions as a semi autonomous group inside AMD akin to Hong Kong so whatever happens inside RTG doesn't apply to the rest of AMD.
Click to expand...

The truth will set you free... As long as its positive in RTG's eyes..
 
Whenever i read amd threads in this forums it's always a cesspool of fanboys and attempts to idolize amd products. I just don't get it, they are just under par with Nvidia, but don't offer anything different or innovative. We all hope VEGA will be a superstar but all I care about is price. No one needs another 650$ graphics card right now. If they can get this in around $450 they will have a winner regardless of performance.
 
oldmanbal said:
Whenever i read amd threads in this forums it's always a cesspool of fanboys and attempts to idolize amd products. I just don't get it, they are just under par with Nvidia, but don't offer anything different or innovative. We all hope VEGA will be a superstar but all I care about is price. No one needs another 650$ graphics card right now. If they can get this in around $450 they will have a winner regardless of performance.
Click to expand...

Why?.. official price for the GTX 1080 it's 499$ the updated 11Gbps vRAM speed, and it's faster than the VEGA FE.. the official GTX 1070 prices (which it's where VEGA tend to land in gaming performance most of the time) start at 380$, of course there's no counting with the mining craze prices.. talking about VEGA as GTX 1075, even at 450$ (which isn't gonna happen) it have no market beyond their OWN AMD people, its not going to make guys from the Nvidia camp jump to AMD side, it may not even be enough jump in performance to make people with Fury/X Cards make that purchase, only mining interested people and AMD hypocrites horde which downgraded from 290X/390X to Polaris will be willing to make that purchase..

With Polaris AMD proved that their demography of users it's the kind of "Low budget, bang for the buck" mentality, that's the kind of users they have, VEGA will be at MINIMUM 550$, that's far above the budget of their own users.. so they should stay there with that focus of "cheap underdog mind".
 
tacos4me said:
I mean, that's fine, I prefer Nvidia stuff personally. Not because green, or I feel as though I need to defend/reinforce a purchase decision in my mind.. but because they generally work better and use less power.

Had Vega pre-ordered. I'd be the first to praise Vega were it worthy of it, and I think most others commenting in here would do the same. But, based on what we've seen so far.. it's not good, and that's the bottom line. This happens more often with AMD products, unfortunately. It's in everyone's best interest for their products to perform well, no matter your personal allegiance. I don't get the fanboy stuff I guess.
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I agree that what we've seen so far is terrible. My bar was that it had to, at a minimum, match a 1080. Coming out over a year later? They knew where the bar was set. I thought it would be a tall order besting the 1080 ti since that was likely based on a bigger chip, though for all we know vega might be a much bigger chip overall.


Final judgment will be withheld until the gaming version comes out, but if it really is between a 1070 and a 1080, the magical question will be why? What could possibly have gone that wrong to have it perform so poorly? If they just scaled up polaris to a bigger chip size would Vega lose? I mean Vega is beating a Fury X, but not by that much. The jump from a 980 to the 1080 was absolutely immense and these kinds of small jumps are not going to cut it anymore. Something is not working right if this is all there is.
 
Let's be realistic it's gonna be coming in a little faster than the 1080, and it needs to be a better price than fury was.
 
tacos4me said:
The demographics on this forum are completely different. I think you'd find that the majority of users here generally have more cash to throw down and don't really give a shit who it goes to.. so long as the card performs.

Not possible negativity toward AMD could be related to the fact they put out stinkers all the time? Noooo..
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agreed, i hang out on reddit and various pc reddit based discords, often helping people. in general the demographic of reddit users is teenagers to early twenties folks and very few of us in our late twenties/thirties like myself. The reason you see much more pro AMD over there is due to the fact that the average PC enthusiast there can't afford to throw money at their rig to get the best stuff so they hope AMD can produce on high performing things for a lower price, I was that way as well when i was younger as i'm sure many of us other vets here were so we feel their pain but we also remember how things generally have gone in the past 20 years when it comes to intel/nvidia vs amd/ati.
 
Frito11 said:
agreed, i hang out on reddit and various pc reddit based discords, often helping people. in general the demographic of reddit users is teenagers to early twenties folks and very few of us in our late twenties/thirties like myself. The reason you see much more pro AMD over there is due to the fact that the average PC enthusiast there can't afford to throw money at their rig to get the best stuff so they hope AMD can produce on high performing things for a lower price, I was that way as well when i was younger as i'm sure many of us other vets here were so we feel their pain but we also remember how things generally have gone in the past 20 years when it comes to intel/nvidia vs amd/ati.
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I agree, I find the demographics of this forum to be a little older with money to spend. At least that's my output on this. I've always been a lurker, never to make an account only until recent. I've lurked this forum for years, just reading.
 
_mockingbird said:
RTG is apparently pretty bitter about reviews of Radeon Vega FE that have been published and is considering denying sample units of Radeon RX Vega to sites that published reviews of Radeon Vega FE.

This is not a done deal and may not happen, but is currently under consideration.

Note: RTG functions as a semi autonomous group inside AMD akin to Hong Kong so whatever happens inside RTG doesn't apply to the rest of AMD.
Click to expand...


I understand them being annoyed at being exposed, but come on, this had to be expected. Maybe it was the demand based on previous statements to have "vega" out before a certain time frame that caused them to have to let the cat out of the birthing canal before the.. I don't know, skin was formed?

But they need to take that annoyance and bitterness and channel it into revenge. What kind of revenge? an actual performance boost. You get even, not bitter. That is the only thing that will slap some of the smug off the face of razor/dayaks/joker/leldra/etc.
 
tybert7 said:
I understand them being annoyed at being exposed, but come on, this had to be expected. Maybe it was the demand based on previous statements to have "vega" out before a certain time frame that caused them to have to let the cat out of the birthing canal before the.. I don't know, skin was formed?

But they need to take that annoyance and bitterness and channel it into revenge. What kind of revenge? an actual performance boost. You get even, not bitter. That is the only thing that will slap some of the smug off the face of razor/dayaks/joker/leldra/etc.
Click to expand...

"Bitterness" is just a form of envy in my opinion in terms of production.
 
rec0d3 said:
I agree, I find the demographics of this forum to be a little older with money to spend. At least that's my output on this. I've always been a lurker, never to make an account only until recent. I've lurked this forum for years, just reading.
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I've been a H follower sense quake days, my old forum account is lost but i wasn't ever very active on the H forums to begin with so didn't care much and made a new one last year when i got back into the bug of upgrading and pc hardware tweaking (mostly due to having spare fun cash to spend once again lol)
 
Frito11 said:
I've been a H follower sense quake days, my old forum account is lost but i wasn't ever very active on the H forums to begin with so didn't care much and made a new one last year when i got back into the bug of upgrading and pc hardware tweaking (mostly due to having spare fun cash to spend once again lol)
Click to expand...

Makes me wonder how many minds out there are just lurking and not contributing to the H society. Hmm..
 
_mockingbird said:
How many more excuses can you make for this guy?

He has been back working at AMD over four years ago.
Click to expand...


Greenland was still in the pipe then - how long do you think these things take to make from conception to production?


They aren't going to chuck all the R&D $$ to start fresh with the financial situation AMD is in. No, they have to break even on their R&D and production costs first. They have to get out from under the old architecture the previous group of engineers conceived.

Navi is the true test. There's no more "more excuses" as that will be the first 100% Raja card. The Buck stops there.
 
tybert7 said:
I understand them being annoyed at being exposed, but come on, this had to be expected. Maybe it was the demand based on previous statements to have "vega" out before a certain time frame that caused them to have to let the cat out of the birthing canal before the.. I don't know, skin was formed?

But they need to take that annoyance and bitterness and channel it into revenge. What kind of revenge? an actual performance boost. You get even, not bitter. That is the only thing that will slap some of the smug off the face of razor/dayaks/joker/leldra/etc.
Click to expand...


Its called they can't do it man, they don't have the capability to take on nV at the moment, why do you think Raja stated they haven't the engineers right now to be fully competitive. When you hear upper management being honest like that, you can't sit here and hype Vega to the moon. Just no way. You think Ryzen can compete with Intel if Intel didn't sit on its ass with mediocre upgrades for the past hmm 5 generations of CPU's? What if Intel continued to innovate like how nV does gen to gen what then? That is what R&D is about, when nV has so much more R&D than the RTG group, they just can do shit. Even Navi man is going to be hard if nV hits their targets with Volta. Its just going to be that way. AMD doesn't have the money to fast track Navi, they have to wait for 7nm which isn't coming out till ~end of 2018. They are definitely one generation behind nV at the moment with GCN and possibly more because Volta is around the corner.

You tell me how a company without engineers, without the R&D, is expected to take on nV at the high end? Yeah only way is if nV becomes Intel and sits on its laurels (and they sure don't look like they are doing that does it?). AMD better pray to god that Coffee lake is a bust, cause they can't sustain another pummeling. Graphics division isn't going to be making much money for them, CPU should get them into the black though for the time being. Only way its going to sustain them is if Coffee Lake turns out to be incremental upgrades like previous Intel chips.

This is what I've been saying for how long, AMD's fate is not in its hands, its in the hands of its competitors because after the ATi buyout, AMD screwed up way too many times (bad management discussions) and now its a HUGE uphill battle, any mistake by AMD or perceived mistake because competitors do something will be disastrous for AMD, they have no backing from anyone or trust to get more loans. It took what 10 years for AMD to come to this situation, its going to take 20 years to get out of this situation. Have you ever heard its easier to lose than to gain? That is what it is. Reality. Companies just don't come out and make great products without the money behind it, not these types of products, just doesn't happen. Ryzen is only lucky because Intel sat around and cashed in. But how far will that go, Ryzen poked the bear with a stick but not too hard. Look what happened with Intel when they got poked with a stick by Athlon64, they poked AMD back 10 times harder with Nehalem and Ivy Bridge and so on.

Look at ATi vs nV, ATi poked at nV with the 9700 series, nV countered after their mistake with FX with the 6800 series, then when their true next gen g80 came out, they crushed AMD then status quo maintained with AMD cause nV didn't innovate, Fermi came out and it had power usage issues, Kepler/7xxx series is when AMD started cutting down R&D for graphics cause they didn't have money to sustain the company otherwise. And that is the reason they are in the situation they are in now. With out R&D budgets, engineers won't stay, they need money. ANd when a tech company cuts R&D you know they are in trouble that is the last thing they will EVER cut. They were in dire straits at that point. They were most likely very close to going under.

nV is forced to innovate because they know if they don't and Intel gets any hold of DL markets, they will get pushed out fast, Intel has too much muscle for nV if they get any foot hold. But because of their graphics expertise and software they have effectively shut out everyone else in that market.

AMD is not in a position to take on both Intel and nV and be successful on all fronts. Economically just won't happen unless its competitors f up.
 
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The "driver is not ready, functionalities aren't enabled" is the most retarded excuse I've ever seen for a poorly-performing GPU.

How many months have Vega been delayed by now? How late are they versus the competition?

I don't see the point of "rushing" Vega out the door and showing it in a poor light given how late they are. Might as well give it a few more months and make sure things work.
 
_mockingbird said:
RTG is apparently pretty bitter about reviews of Radeon Vega FE that have been published and is considering denying sample units of Radeon RX Vega to sites that published reviews of Radeon Vega FE.

This is not a done deal and may not happen, but is currently under consideration.

Note: RTG functions as a semi autonomous group inside AMD akin to Hong Kong so whatever happens inside RTG doesn't apply to the rest of AMD.
Click to expand...

Sources? Links? Are you the source? Sorry, I don't know who you are.


Die size readjusted from 560mm after GamerNexus did their measurement.
 
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