You may have to pay to be an alpha tester, but you dont have to be an alpha tester. That's the point complainers seem to be missing.
Oh you can already tell this game is going to induce much rage and many tears.
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H1Z1 - New SOE Game
- Thread starter delita
- Start date
You may have to pay to be an alpha tester, but you dont have to be an alpha tester. That's the point complainers seem to be missing.
Oh you can already tell this game is going to induce much rage and many tears.
Eshelmen
Supreme [H]ardness
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Bunch of Xbox players or what? Hahah
In case you guys don't end up reading this.
John Smedleys h1z1 post.
http://www.reddit.com/r/h1z1/comments/2slbmc/airdrops/
This explains it all.
Nah.. PC players.. They've become just as bad as console kids on the cry-o-meter. Not really sure how it happened but there's been an uptick in recent years.
Anyhoo, my comment about the rage was based on that reddit post actually, and all the other reddit posts flooding in about Pay2Win". No matter what they do, or how they attempt to monetize the game, people will be screaming "Pay2Win" like a five year old that just learned the F-word. Factoring also that its an open world zombie survival game - a genre that seems to really bring out the worst in people anyway - well its going to run the same course as DayZ, WarZ, etc as far as drama and everyone having their own idea about how the game should work, and how the game must conform to their own personal hierarchy of needs.
The other thing that people don't seem to understand is that this is an alpha, so testing different ways to monetize the game is obviously par for the course. All the kneejerking like its the final version of the game and not going to change is kind of silly. They'll get pushback, they'll try something else, more pushback, and eventually they'll settle on something. They're also analyzing back-end stats rather than just reddit tantruming -- looking for what works and what engages players, and what doesn't.
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Except Mr Smedley just said this EIGHT days ago:
https://www.reddit.com/r/h1z1/comments/2rmq42/ingamewebsite_shop/cnhf2b0
So flip flopping all around, they led many people to think airdrops only provided consumables or recipes , no game changing "Advantages" right then and there.
https://www.reddit.com/r/h1z1/comments/2rmq42/ingamewebsite_shop/cnhf2b0
So flip flopping all around, they led many people to think airdrops only provided consumables or recipes , no game changing "Advantages" right then and there.
Apparently upon further reading this isn't the first time he's put his foot in his mouth. I've found some stuff on his twitter and reddit where people quote him and call him out on comments he made about PS2, that turned out to be completely opposite upon release.
Eshelmen
Supreme [H]ardness
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After playing for the past five or six hours, I am actually impressed.
This game plays ten times better than DayZ does, and this is first day of Alpha release! So that's a plus.
As far as air drops, I havent used one yet and have stolen 3 so far and failed to do so on 2.
A few crates had a 1911, some food, and some cosmetics.
I don't see how having these airdrops is a definite way to win. REPEAT, I STOLE 3 air drop crates with out spending my own.
Also, how in the hell do you "Win" in this game? You can't! Eventually you die, whether from being shot down, malnutrition, zombie attack etc, you will die.
So saying this game has a pay to win system is entirely false. You can't buy god mode, you can't directly place weapons into your inventory, you can't buy higher health, unlimited food, ammo, faster run speed etc.
So to all the whiners , please, do us all a favor and just don't join the Alpha. The game seems pretty good with out you negative nancies involved.
At first, it didnt seem so common to run into players, but I've run into dozens already. I'd say half friendlies and half untrusted foes. This is expected. For now, I'm going solo full time, so if I see a player, I will fire.
This game plays ten times better than DayZ does, and this is first day of Alpha release! So that's a plus.
As far as air drops, I havent used one yet and have stolen 3 so far and failed to do so on 2.
A few crates had a 1911, some food, and some cosmetics.
I don't see how having these airdrops is a definite way to win. REPEAT, I STOLE 3 air drop crates with out spending my own.
Also, how in the hell do you "Win" in this game? You can't! Eventually you die, whether from being shot down, malnutrition, zombie attack etc, you will die.
So saying this game has a pay to win system is entirely false. You can't buy god mode, you can't directly place weapons into your inventory, you can't buy higher health, unlimited food, ammo, faster run speed etc.
So to all the whiners , please, do us all a favor and just don't join the Alpha. The game seems pretty good with out you negative nancies involved.
At first, it didnt seem so common to run into players, but I've run into dozens already. I'd say half friendlies and half untrusted foes. This is expected. For now, I'm going solo full time, so if I see a player, I will fire.
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I was also kind of impressed. The crafting is well done. The survival aspect is pretty good as I was always searching for stuff to stay alive. I did find a few things that are a bit too easy to get and a bit too good. I had so much stuff on my second spawn. Sick backpack, m1911, tons of supplies, a car, etc. I could never find anything to make a damn fire though beyond my initial flare.
FYI, if you go up steep hills, you will auto die. I was climbing a mountain and just randomly died lol
I murdered about 6 people on my second spawn. First guy I saw was unarmed, so I was going to just go about my business with my machete in hand and let him go. He punched me. That started the killing spree. I ran people down with my car and butchered them.
Pretty fun. Semi-addicting. Needs lots of work
FYI, if you go up steep hills, you will auto die. I was climbing a mountain and just randomly died lol
I murdered about 6 people on my second spawn. First guy I saw was unarmed, so I was going to just go about my business with my machete in hand and let him go. He punched me. That started the killing spree. I ran people down with my car and butchered them.
Pretty fun. Semi-addicting. Needs lots of work
Eshelmen
Supreme [H]ardness
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Yeah I thought there was matches or something to ignite fires with?
I too have only found flares.
I also find crafting to be pretty good
Another huge plus, is the inventory menu is MUCH better than DayZ. It's so much less complicated and doesn't feel clunky or cluttered at all. This is a huge thing for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K6cv--warY#t=2439
Another example of them straight out lying about these airdrops.
Yes they can be gotten by other players but that's not the point, you should have to actually find these things out in the world, they shouldn't be (literally) falling from the sky for you.
They should be rare'ish items you find rummaging through places.
Another example of them straight out lying about these airdrops.
Yes they can be gotten by other players but that's not the point, you should have to actually find these things out in the world, they shouldn't be (literally) falling from the sky for you.
They should be rare'ish items you find rummaging through places.
If you have played 5 or 6 hours already, read about the game on h1z1 website and reddit, and actually like the game, it's officially confirmed you have a lot of time to waste.
Eshelmen
Supreme [H]ardness
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Yet you've spent more time complaining about the game then actually playing it.
Coming from someone like you, I'll take that as a compliment.
And as John Lennon said.
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I LOL'd! "That started the killing spree." Hahaha...
And that's what really gets me, is not that they are blatantly lying again, as they've done it before and its all for the almighty dollar. I get it. What gets me is that you have people that redefine "pay to win" to mean a purchasable God-mode, rather than the universally accepted definition of "paying for unfair advantage over people that don't pay". And what part of this is rocket science? The goal of the game is to survive, and you can pay to have survival items dropped by you.
If you want air-drops, that's perfectly fine, make them random server events that are dropped completely at random and not towards a player that pays for them. Have the players just pay for non-gameplay affecting features like they said they would. Remember, the devs themselves said it would be incredibly lame if they dropped ammo/weapons/etc.
And I know there are people that think that they just have to bend over, stretch their cheeks apart, and take it, but you don't. They have to sell this game to people, and if you just tell them "no, I don't like the pay to win", they'll just take it out. Or can someone explain to me how they think games are better with pay-to-win elements. Only way I can understand is if you recognize you're a sub-par untalented player and will gladly pay to have a leg up on everyone else... but cmon, deep down you have to know that's pretty lame. Of course the real sad part is that you'll have some frustrated players that will end up paying and paying and paying and spend $1000+ on this game, and of course this is the type of "whaling" that SOE is counting on.
And before I hear another "but they are going to tweak the values so you aren't 100% guaranteed to get guns/ammo/etc"... lets use some grade school math and common sense here. There will be people that will spend $5 for a good crate, and they won't get what they want or say there is a 60% chance that someone else will beat them to it or the zombies will kill them, etc. So they will pay another $5, pull on the slot machine lever, and have another 40% chance of succeeding. If they don't, then again they will spend $5, pull on the slot machine lever, and have another 40% chance of succeeding. Eventually, no matter how SOE tweaks the value, if you spend the right amount of money you will approach a statistical 99.9% chance of succeeding (think of it as paying $5 for rolling a dice, eventually you WILL roll a 6). With a 99.9% statistical chance of getting items that directly affect gameplay and gives you an advantage over other players is by accepted definition pay-to-win. Its ALSO the type of "slot machine" microtransaction mechanics that prey upon the whales they are fishing for, that will spend tens to hundreds of times how much such a basic game is worth (sometimes to ruinous effect to their quality of life, which is why gameplay aside many are negative towards these type of direct gameplay influencing microtransactions on P2W "freemium" games from a purely moral standpoint).
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My sentiments exactly
Eshelmen
Supreme [H]ardness
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P
Yes, so let's do the math.
Out of a 1,000 players on a server, what would be the stat of a player actually doing this "constant buying" to finally have guaranteed kick ass loot?
Maybe 5 out of the 1,000?
I'll even be nice and say maybe 25.
What you say may be true ........ for the first week. But after? Not even.
I don't know about you, but unless people have thousands of dollars to throw on this game, their wallets will be drained almost immediately. Which additionally, lowers the chances immensely of a player constantly buying airdrops. Also considering, I don't know anyone personally that would pay so much for so little in return. Not to mention the up to 750 damn meters and incredibly slow drop from the plane, the incredubly tall green flare to let everyone know what's going on. With a 1,000 players on the map"Once released ", with all the money most gamers have to spend on this game, it just wouldn't add up to what the rest of the players(in the server) have in their inventory. They'll be considerably outnumbered and consistently hunted down from eventually a good portion of the server.
I feel bad for the poor bloak who pays a few hundred a night or per week to think he'll be the best player in the server.
The more crap you carry, the more I get to jack from you.
To conclude:
I recommend you actually play this game, instead of making a very small aspect of the game, the biggest issue. Because you're extremely off. Bugs, glitches and actual loot finding is my main concern with this game so far. Zombies are too damn slow and dumb and some of my crafting skills aren't working for me. There are a ton of things in this Alpha that need be fixed over the airdrops.
So yes, your math skills work, but only on your one sided equations.
And that's what really gets me, is not that they are blatantly lying again, as they've done it before and its all for the almighty dollar. I get it. What gets me is that you have people that redefine "pay to win" to mean a purchasable God-mode, rather than the universally accepted definition of "paying for unfair advantage over people that don't pay". And what part of this is rocket science? The goal of the game is to survive, and you can pay to have survival items dropped by you.
If you want air-drops, that's perfectly fine, make them random server events that are dropped completely at random and not towards a player that pays for them. Have the players just pay for non-gameplay affecting features like they said they would. Remember, the devs themselves said it would be incredibly lame if they dropped ammo/weapons/etc.
And I know there are people that think that they just have to bend over, stretch their cheeks apart, and take it, but you don't. They have to sell this game to people, and if you just tell them "no, I don't like the pay to win", they'll just take it out. Or can someone explain to me how they think games are better with pay-to-win elements. Only way I can understand is if you recognize you're a sub-par untalented player and will gladly pay to have a leg up on everyone else... but cmon, deep down you have to know that's pretty lame. Of course the real sad part is that you'll have some frustrated players that will end up paying and paying and paying and spend $1000+ on this game, and of course this is the type of "whaling" that SOE is counting on.
And before I hear another "but they are going to tweak the values so you aren't 100% guaranteed to get guns/ammo/etc"... lets use some grade school math and common sense here. There will be people that will spend $5 for a good crate, and they won't get what they want or say there is a 60% chance that someone else will beat them to it or the zombies will kill them, etc. So they will pay another $5, pull on the slot machine lever, and have another 40% chance of succeeding. If they don't, then again they will spend $5, pull on the slot machine lever, and have another 40% chance of succeeding. Eventually, no matter how SOE tweaks the value, if you spend the right amount of money you will approach a statistical 99.9% chance of succeeding (think of it as paying $5 for rolling a dice, eventually you WILL roll a 6). With a 99.9% statistical chance of getting items that directly affect gameplay and gives you an advantage over other players is by accepted definition pay-to-win. Its ALSO the type of "slot machine" microtransaction mechanics that prey upon the whales they are fishing for, that will spend tens to hundreds of times how much such a basic game is worth (sometimes to ruinous effect to their quality of life, which is why gameplay aside many are negative towards these type of direct gameplay influencing microtransactions on P2W "freemium" games from a purely moral standpoint).
Yes, so let's do the math.
Out of a 1,000 players on a server, what would be the stat of a player actually doing this "constant buying" to finally have guaranteed kick ass loot?
Maybe 5 out of the 1,000?
I'll even be nice and say maybe 25.
What you say may be true ........ for the first week. But after? Not even.
I don't know about you, but unless people have thousands of dollars to throw on this game, their wallets will be drained almost immediately. Which additionally, lowers the chances immensely of a player constantly buying airdrops. Also considering, I don't know anyone personally that would pay so much for so little in return. Not to mention the up to 750 damn meters and incredibly slow drop from the plane, the incredubly tall green flare to let everyone know what's going on. With a 1,000 players on the map"Once released ", with all the money most gamers have to spend on this game, it just wouldn't add up to what the rest of the players(in the server) have in their inventory. They'll be considerably outnumbered and consistently hunted down from eventually a good portion of the server.
I feel bad for the poor bloak who pays a few hundred a night or per week to think he'll be the best player in the server.
The more crap you carry, the more I get to jack from you.
To conclude:
I recommend you actually play this game, instead of making a very small aspect of the game, the biggest issue. Because you're extremely off. Bugs, glitches and actual loot finding is my main concern with this game so far. Zombies are too damn slow and dumb and some of my crafting skills aren't working for me. There are a ton of things in this Alpha that need be fixed over the airdrops.
So yes, your math skills work, but only on your one sided equations.
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They need to keep toning down the water/food use. The patch last night was a step in the right direction, but not enough. I spend most of my time looking for water. Then again, I'm a newb, so maybe there is an easier way. And how do you ignite a new campfire after you have used your flare already? Are there like matches or lighters in game?
Eshelmen
Supreme [H]ardness
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If they toned down the hunger and thirst aspect too much, it wouldn't be a very good survival game. Many players would camp even more than they do now and just sit in fields all day with their sniper scope and plow anyone who comes through.
The game needs direction, and the thirst and hunger are that direction that makes the game flow. Also, if it didn't drop so fast, there would be no point to keep moving. But then again, I know you're not saying signficantly raise the timers, but a little wouldn't hurt too bad I suppose.
Hmm, I see your point. I had a long week at work, so I'm just starting to play now, and yes, I see the need for the hunger/thirst. I guess just keep moving and searching for resources. I also like the crafting so far. I hope they keep going with it and adding recipes.
Wait, what? You're not making any sense. Any tweaking they do to the P2W aspect will have a calculated benefit to the person paying, they can't reduce it to 0% or the revenue stream would disappear. If its at even 30% with all factors considered, you're still then just putting $5 into the slot-machine over and over until you are guaranteed the reward of the drop (and yes that can get expensive, and to level the playing field other serious players will try to spend just as much until you get into a spending war).
And no, whales aren't the norm, but just like the alcohol and gambling industries, you are guaranteed a percentage when you design your product right using P2W features exactly like this in a freemium mass-multiplayer. Its one of the reasons I had to quit World of Tanks even though I love tank games and the strategy and social aspect of it, as the P2W part was becoming too blatant and the threads on the forum where people talked about spending thousands and thousands of dollars on the game outright painful.
So this idea that I should just look past the string of lies and aspect of the now P2W Freemium game and "just play it" anyway is pretty ridiculous.
If you don't care about that, that's fine, its your opinion. I'm just explaining why this revelation is a big deal to me (and all the other people getting refunds right now).
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"String of lies" - are you for real? Nobody's told anyone to look past anything. Free will is real and you don't have to drop twenty bucks for an early access title. Plenty of other games to play, no need to stress over this page after page like they're asking people to sign up for an adjustable rate mortgage. A normal person takes a look at this and says "okay, this is/isn't for me" and moves on. The minority that didn't like the game have the refund option.
And continuing to try to make arguments based on the state of the game as it existed 20 minutes after launch is also a little silly. They're making changes around the clock. Consider also that the way the game played once unleashed to tens of thousands of testers might have played out differently than in their internal testing, and so the fairness-balance they had in mind in terms of the monetization aspects played out differently in the public arena, and needed re-tuning. And they'll continue to re-tune for 6+ months. As of this moment, the loot from airdrops is now mediocre at best. Guns are really rare from them. They posted what you can get on reddit.
Look at any stream, nobody's droning on about "omg they lied". Instead its just people having a good time, or wondering when such-and-such improvement will be patched in, or complaining the loot rate needs a boost, etc. At this point, going on about "lies" and "P2W" just exposes someone as not even playing the game. The real juice isn't even in finding any of the stuff that typically comes out of air dropped crates anyway. The real juice is in the exploration, crafting, base building, and social/psychological dynamics of random encounters.
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Yes, string of lies: http://www.pcgamer.com/h1z1-money-m...s-on-player-customization-wont-be-pay-to-win/ Then 3-days before, then 8 hours before. You also can't get any cosmetic items in the crates, meaning they hadn't even worked on it, so it was never the plan. It was just a string of lies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8Xi3nOPWxQ
In any case, going to have to agree to disagree, as like I said if you don't care about P2W freemium whaling then you just don't care. I can't make you care, and that's fine. A lot of people care, and its such a fiasco that even Steam is issuing refunds directly now because of so many complaints (you don't even have to go through the refund process SOE outlined):
Obviously, you are willing to look past all of these issues and defend SOE like a mindless zombie in your favorite DayZ clone, and that's fine.
Personally, and again this is just me, H1Z1 should be the wakeup call for the PC master race. I don't want to wake up to a new norm where WE have to pay the developer $20-40 to test their buggy POS, which is going to be a free to play game of all things... and now that they have all this money up front, what motivation is there for them to even hurry up and finish it? Did it work for DayZ that they cloned this off of? Nope. And moments before launch they go from months and months of multiple promises NOT to go pay-to-win to doing just that. I mean, this is kind of the epitome poster-child of why the "don't preorder" rally cry began, even though in this case its don't pre-pre-order paying for alpha testing.
Any stream? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nuzxBjW4Tg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8Xi3nOPWxQ
In any case, going to have to agree to disagree, as like I said if you don't care about P2W freemium whaling then you just don't care. I can't make you care, and that's fine. A lot of people care, and its such a fiasco that even Steam is issuing refunds directly now because of so many complaints (you don't even have to go through the refund process SOE outlined):
Obviously, you are willing to look past all of these issues and defend SOE like a mindless zombie in your favorite DayZ clone, and that's fine.
Personally, and again this is just me, H1Z1 should be the wakeup call for the PC master race. I don't want to wake up to a new norm where WE have to pay the developer $20-40 to test their buggy POS, which is going to be a free to play game of all things... and now that they have all this money up front, what motivation is there for them to even hurry up and finish it? Did it work for DayZ that they cloned this off of? Nope. And moments before launch they go from months and months of multiple promises NOT to go pay-to-win to doing just that. I mean, this is kind of the epitome poster-child of why the "don't preorder" rally cry began, even though in this case its don't pre-pre-order paying for alpha testing.
Yeah theres actually more detail in High and Ultra but the shadows seem to get disabled..night also becomes very dark. Im sure theyll fix it this week.
You can also tweak the .ini file to run with Ultra + shadows but I rather wait for a fix so I dont have to set .ini file read-only
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That video is hilarious!
piscian18
[H]F Junkie
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- Jul 26, 2005
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- 11,020
i played for 2 hours last night on a PVE server. All the players were respectful and i had quite some fun. I found a backpack , some food but no weapons. I did craft myself a bow , and its quite useful.
But yeah... we need more loot, its very very very scarce , like ''ALMOST'' fun breaking.
But yeah... we need more loot, its very very very scarce , like ''ALMOST'' fun breaking.
leeleatherwood
[H]ard|Gawd
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Yeah,
The fact that you need scrap metal to make basically anything useful, and its so ridiculously rare is pretty dumb. I looted at least 100 cars one night and found nothing in a single one.
Also, the vehicles are so weak they are basically useless. You can blow up a vehicle in like 5 shots with a bow and arrow, you can even punch it until it blows up relatively easily. It makes finding all the parts to get one running an epic waste of time.
Game needs ALOT of work, cant really complain though because its still an "Alpha"
On the other hand, GRAV is VERY good. It is so far beyond (in terms of working features) Rust/DayZ/H1Z1 its not even funny.
Yup, those guys crack me up. "Yeah, so, no loitering"
The Gaben bit at the end had me rolling too.OK, so I know how to make fire reliably now. Had to craft a bow drill to start the fires and hatchets to cut down trees for logs. I am getting scrap metal from using a crowbar on cars, but they don't last long. I get two to three scrap metals per car, so don't use that crowbar on zombies, its a waste. My son and I just practiced on PvE and modified an existing home to be our base. We are moving on to PvP server now though, as we know how to play a little bit better.
This game really shines when you can team up with a friend on voice comm. On the subject of building your own base, I'm curious to see how they're going to address the relative destructibility of them. Too easy right now for someone to ransack it. Ability to craft booby traps might be a first step.
In other news, one of the programmers mentioned they'd found the fix for why loot hasn't been spawning in containers. I think most players will have noticed that opening up containers is usually futile - almost never find anything, and only really tend to find stuff laying on top of things or on the floor. Hopefully that'll be patched quickly.
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IceCream Sundae
n00b
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Tempted to get this purely for crafting
delita
[H]ard|Gawd
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I'd like to see a group feature. I know it's not realistic (but neither are a lot of things with this game), but turning off friendly fire while grouped with someone would be a big plus. Some people are just bad at shooting things. Was grouped up with a guy yesterday, he was on bow and I was on melee. He "accidentally" shot me while we were fighting a zombie together.
Eshelmen
Supreme [H]ardness
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But what if I wanted to back stab you as a partner(sure we'll be friends, we find a gold mine, I shoot you). I know it's a dick move, but muahahaha oh well ..... Part of the game .
leeleatherwood
[H]ard|Gawd
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Tempted to get this purely for crafting
The crafting really sucks at the moment to be honest.
Master_Pain
Supreme [H]ardness
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cool story bro, please, tell us more