ASUS/BENQ LightBoost owners!! Zero motion blur setting!

[elvn]

So far I'm not impressed with Ligthboost for BF3.

Gaming monitor needs to do two things for me:
-make me see enemies clearly
-see them on time

While there is little or no blur in motion (and the input lag is very low), the brightness is very low for my liking in LB. Standard 120 Hz makes it easier to spot targets and so far I had better luck winning games in this mode.

Again, this is for BF3 in TDM and Gun master modes, perhaps LB is more suited to games with different engines like CS, UT or Quake.

Imo, lightboost / backlight strobing as a tech seems suited to everything (though I don't play BF3). It would be nice if it were supported fully by mfgs though. As it is now, it is a "hack" or workaround sort of, so there are a few wrinkles.

Its not all about gaining scoring advantage. To enjoy a game more there is the aesthetic to consider. That's why people crank up their graphics settings and AA, etc even if in many cases their systems can't always maintain super high fps with those settings, and why people drop a lot of money on expensive gpu setups to being with. They want their game world to look gorgeous. If it were only about scoring, a lot of things like that wouldn't matter and people would run low settings and/or low resolutions, etc. This also applies to adventure games (single player, tomb raider - bioshock types, rpg's like skyrim, witcher2, etc, modern high-detail mmos and co-op games, whatever). It looks like crap when the whole world of your viewport suffers a full soften blur effect every time you move your FoV at 120hz - blurring out all texture detail, shaders incl depth via bump-mapping, etc, and any writing/text/nameplates/in world readouts (not hud since its static vs FoV obviously). In addition to making the whole scene/viewport a mess, I hate having my eyes robbed of their locked on focus. My eyes always try to focus away blur, and quickly.

In any 120hz mode you still get the greatly increased motion tracking benefit, with many more recent action slices shown... more times your "viewport shutters" open per second into what's happening in the game world. Without strobing you have to suffer 50% blur or worse compared 60hz baseline.

Regarding your comments on brightness - are you sure you can't increase the brightness any more? Using my samsung in sequential frame mode, I got a great improvement after I adjust the brightness a lot higher. Is the brightness the main factor you complained about spotting targets vs non lightboost 120hz?

As for 120hz, the consensus is that it still blurs.. just not as much. I'm finding the most modern, extremely high resolution texture mapped games , + bumpmapping depth and shaders, make my (60hz ips) lcd screen blur even more obvious and eye wrenching than before since the blur on fast FoV movement washes out that extremely high detail+3d depth my eyes "have a lock on" every time. It strains my eyes and is much more obnoxious to me than more than simpler textured/older games.

Most people seem to agree with this representation of 60hz/120hz *LCD/ CRT blur in games.

So it appears to me that 120hz vs the limitation of LCD pixel response times and retinal retention blur would still not be enough to retain the focus on texture detail (much like fine text scrawled on a surface which gets smudged out) and bump map depth.

Its like you have goggles filled with some liquid-gel and every time you turn quickly, your eyes see all fine detail lost in a blurring. 120hz might replace your goggles with a fluid which has double the viscosity, blurring near half as much.. but its still a lousy prescription compared to clear sight imo.
<snip>.

 

[Vega]

There are many ways to adjust brightness, including in-game and the NVIDIA control panel. LB isn't that dark when adjusted properly, especially with LB at 100% and contrast at 100% in the OSD. Certainly not dark enough to say it's harder to see targets with LB on with perfect motion clarity than LB off and blur, that's silly.

LB works so incredibly well for everything, I'm selling off my overclock Catleaps in favor of my 3x1 LB portrait setup. I cannot believe people actually use regular monitors anymore for gaming with LB out there now. Then again, most people game on 60 Hz screen.

The only reason I'd see to have a single 1440P is you absolutely loathe bezels, you just want one monitor for one reason or another, you don't have the GPU power, or you want the viewing angle and picture quality of IPS. But for gaming, LB all the way! I also love LB on the desktop, smooth scrolling text/web surfing with perfect motion clarity is the shit.

 

[HR_The_Butcher]

Its not all about gaining scoring advantage. To enjoy a game more there is the aesthetic to consider.

Surely, if aesthetics were a priority, I'd have gone with an IPS.
Also, I play BF3, and every other game, to win. Hence, most of the graphic details are set to low to achieve a high and stable frame count.

Having said that, I appreciate the smoothness of a 120 Hz monitor and feel that a reduction in blurriness gives me some advantage in the game.

The picture in LB mode is dimmer, and although I can see everything fine (contrast set to 90, LB at 20) I much prefer the picture in standard, bright(er) 120 Hz mode where enemies really seem to stand out against background. Even if i set contrast to 100 and LB to max value, this still applies.

I tried fiddling with calibrated profiles, but so far haven't found a solution that works for me. I dont mind the tweaking and would go to any length - save for cheats and aimbots - to get me some advantage in the game, but so far LB isn't it.

 

[Transsive]

Vsync should cap at the monitor's refresh rate.
It sounds like the game is only rendering at 60 FPS despite what fraps says.
At least that's what it visually looks like.

If vaync is disabled, does it still look visually like 60 fps?

It looksl ike it is doing what many arcade game emulators do...but this is over my head, I guess...

I disabled vsync in the driver and got 350 fps at low settings.
Double image effect still present, probably since it's rendering at 60fps.

I also tried running the game on an 85Hz CRT some time ago... same issue.
Maybe I'll ask on the blizzard forums.

 

[elvn]

Surely, if aesthetics were a priority, I'd have gone with an IPS.
Also, I play BF3, and every other game, to win. Hence, most of the graphic details are set to low to achieve a high and stable frame count.

Having said that, I appreciate the smoothness of a 120 Hz monitor and feel that a reduction in blurriness gives me some advantage in the game.

The picture in LB mode is dimmer, and although I can see everything fine (contrast set to 90, LB at 20) I much prefer the picture in standard, bright(er) 120 Hz mode where enemies really seem to stand out against background. Even if i set contrast to 100 and LB to max value, this still applies.

I tried fiddling with calibrated profiles, but so far haven't found a solution that works for me. I dont mind the tweaking and would go to any length - save for cheats and aimbots - to get me some advantage in the game, but so far LB isn't it.

I was talking about aesthetics of the entire viewport being lost from a moving FoV due to blurring out of all details. An ips at 120hz blurs worse than than the 50% blur reduction of a 120hz TN, and any 60hz lcd smears much worse - so both lose aesthetically during any decent speed FoV movement. Of course ips looks way better from a static FoV and in screenshots due to rez/ppi, color quality, and overall uniformity (no TN shading/"shadow" from shift)... but during motion it is ugly, especially compared to pristine scene clarity.
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I understand not wanting to be limited or "gimped" by inferior hardware (massive input lag, etc) in a competitive game, but I do wonder sometimes about people going beyond a more level, even if high, plateau and seek considerable advantage vs other players - even outside of outright hacks. Especially in games that keep statistics/skill-ladders, etc. (Is ramping up the brightness and using other monitor settings in order to see players and objects that would ordinarily be "in the shadows" and harder to detect or to detect as soon in certain areas one of these ways?). I guess the advantage gains could be the nature of pc gaming, including other factors like internet connection quality/latency differences between players and servers (outside of LAN only gaming). However in team based games your (hardware,configuration, and latency) scoring advantages might be normalized a little, depending on the game, since they are dependent on everyone else in the arena's setups and latencies and everyone relies on each-other's performance more. But I digress. Maybe that is more of a competitive gaming philosophy/ethics topic if there is such a thing.
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Anyway, contrary to your experience with lightboost in 2D gaming - several people in this thread, and quoted from other threads, have said that they feel lightboost mode is actually an increased advantage in some competitive/scoring based shooters. It isn't going to make the stroboscopic increase in action "slices" crammed in per second any greater than the jump from 60hz to 120hz. That condition and its increased accuracy and motion flow remains the same. Lightboost strobing goes beyond that though. Much like a high end crt, it keeps everything razor sharp instead of the entire viewport going "fuzzy" or "slushy" during every FoV movement arc. It also keeps fast moving objects from going slushy/fuzzy in themselves when the rest of your scene is static (not moving your "head"), or if if you are panning slowly or a slow pan duration at the end of a movement arc, etc. E.g. - someone running by quickly or zooming by in a vehicle at high speed would be "slushy"/"fuzzy" even if the rest of your viewport was static on non lightboost lcds. People have reported that the accuracy gained from the pristine clarity blows away even running at 144hz & 144+fps in non lightboost mode. I seem to remember people saying something along the lines of "not even close" , or "no contest"..
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Your experience is your own so you have to go with what you like best / personal preference. There are tradeoffs with any monitor tech. I do wish lightboost 2D gaming was a fully supported, developed and advertised use of the tech, where the remaining wrinkles/hurdles would get ironed out ~ the process streamlined... but it still sounds great to me as it is. I have to wonder if you ever considered setting up a graphics professional FW900 crt. Some competitive people use them. They have no motion blur. They also have no native rez which gave people the ability to run lower resolutions at higher fps, etc. Their brightness is nothing like lcds though so you might be back to square one since you seem to have a sensitivity to or inappropriate setup for average to lower brightness screens.

 

[NukeDukem]

I hope Samsung comes out with a 144hz/Lightboost model with a glossy panel to replace the S27A750/950D.... My 750 is the greatest thing for my gaming experience since sliced bread.. and now I want more.... more smoothness FTW!

 

[Vega]

I hope Samsung comes out with a 144hz/Lightboost model with a glossy panel to replace the S27A750/950D.... My 750 is the greatest thing for my gaming experience since sliced bread.. and now I want more.... more smoothness FTW!

Just de-matte a 144 Hz Asus, best option yet.

 

[Falkentyne]

I disabled vsync in the driver and got 350 fps at low settings.
Double image effect still present, probably since it's rendering at 60fps.

I also tried running the game on an 85Hz CRT some time ago... same issue.
Maybe I'll ask on the blizzard forums.

Yeah the game is render locked to 60 FPS, but not to the video driver. I wonder how that's accomplished.

 

[Morkai]

I hope Samsung comes out with a 144hz/Lightboost model with a glossy panel to replace the S27A750/950D.... My 750 is the greatest thing for my gaming experience since sliced bread.. and now I want more.... more smoothness FTW!

Just in case you simply missed it like i did, if you simply set it in frame sequential 3d mode it is in an equivalent to lightboost mode (probably a touch worse as it has slightly slower refresh).

 

[elvn]

I have a samsung A750D and for me the afterimage shadow appeared in different positions at different speeds during the pixelperan text entry test. By the time it got to 18/30 , the afterimage shadow was superimposed directly on top of the text and moving at pretty high speed, so it became unreadable. 17 - 18 out of 30 is still much clearer than other non-lightboost lcds though and I can definitely tell the difference. The 750D's afterimage and crosstalk are inferior to the 1ms lightboost lcds which have zero blur at any speed and no afterimage shadow, no real crosstalk issues either from what I've read. The lightboost lcds have negligible input lag too, where the samsungs have appreciable input lag.
... So, the samsungs are still much clearer in sequential mode than 120hz lcds which score 5 to 7 out of 30 on the pixelperan text entry test, and regular 60hz lcds which score 2 to 3. They suffer afterimage shadows, and won't be crt sharp at the fastest movement speeds either. Their frame sequential mode works with amd cards which is good since I have and amd gpu, so for now its doing the trick.

 

[Mark Rejhon]

After tweaking my settings, especially the brightness, I no longer get eyestrain. Perhaps it was LED pwm at the lower brightness levels or something idk. I may have become used to the panel in that mode too but my gut feeling is that the brightness changed the enjoyment quality a lot and that it no longer beat up my eyes after that. Before , reading text on that monitor was almost painful but now it doesn't seem to be a problem (though I don't read on that monitor much at all)

Interesting to hear yet more references that LightBoost reduces eyestrain. Everybody's eyes function differently, and gets all kinds of different eyestrain causes.

PWM cause multiple problems for the human. It can be the flicker/headache problem. Or it can be artifact problem. Or both. Artifacts during motion can become noticeable to the human eye during the dimmest brightness settings, especially on LED monitors:



TFTCentral: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/pulse_width_modulation.htm
BlurBusters: http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/lcd-motion-artifacts/

LightBoost is like 120 Hz PWM that does just ONE precisely synchronized strobe, once per refresh (e.g. CRT). This eliminates the ugly PWM repeat-image artifacts. Mind you, some people's eyestrain is from the PWM flicker itself (flicker discomfort), or from the PWM artifacts themselves (ugly repeat images) but other people's eyestrain is from other factors (e.g. image too bright), or eyestrain from the motion blur itself (eyes spending energy trying to focus on always-blurry moving objects), or from picture calibration issues (e.g. bad gamma can cause eye discomfort). Vega of HardForum said he gets eyestrain with 360 Hz PWM but doesn't get eyestrain with 120 Hz LightBoost. He uses Brightness below 20%, so that makes PWM artifacts look visibly bad on LED monitors. However, there's zero PWM artifacts with LightBoost. It varies on the person, what your eyestrain is caused by.

You can turn adjust Brightness up/down, and you can turn on/off LightBoost, as well as adjust LightBoost OSD setting up/down. If you were a CRT user and didn't mind, LightBoost will usually look pleasing to the eyes if you can sustain 120fps (or uncapped framerate if VSYNC OFF), VSYNC ON looks pretty but a lot of us need VSYNC OFF for gaming (so we need to tweak VSYNC OFF to look smooth).

You might get eyestrain. You might not. It's similar to CRT. As a rule of thumb, if your eyes got comfortable with 120Hz CRT, your eyes can become comfortable with 120Hz LightBoost (unless it's due to other factors such as brightness, gamma, etc)

CRT's is visually equivalent to PWM to the eyes occuring at one strobe per refresh. CRT phosphor also flashes (phosphor illuminates and decays). LightBoost is essentially "motion perfect" comfortable 120 Hz PWM. It's "less evil" than PWM; to the point that if you're used to CRT, you'll be fine with LightBoost.

360Hz PWM @ 120Hz = ugly triple image effect (sharp triple)
240Hz PWM @ 120Hz = ugly double image effect (sharp double)
120Hz PWM @ 120Hz = perfect CRT clarity (one sharp image)

As you can see, the number of image-repeats in PWM artifacts is (PWM frequency / Hz frequency). It can even be fractional (leading to stuttery-looking PWM artifacts). e.g. A non-dividing number such as 200 Hz PWM on 60 Hz looks even worse.

PWM can genuinely cause eyestrain. However, for SOME people PWM is a red herring because they never got eyestrain with 120 Hz CRT -- one third the frequency of PWM. It can sometimes instead be the overly excessive brightness, as the actual cause in some cases -- a bigger cause of eyestrain for some people. So you have to test multiple monitors and figure out if your eyestrain is truly caused by PWM, or the harshness of an overly-bright LED monitor (Picking the poison between Brightness 100% or getting PWM). And now we've got essentially a new option -- LightBoost (low-frequency motion-perfect PWM that behaves more like CRT flicker), which may or may be more eyestrain or less eyestrain. Apparently, some people are getting more eyestrain, and others are getting less eystrain with LightBoost!

FWIW, I actually get more eyestrain with Brightness=100% than with PWM, but I prefer the LightBoost (perfectly synchronized PWM) over the unsynchronized PWM (repeat strobes per refresh)

 

[Mark Rejhon]

While there is little or no blur in motion (and the input lag is very low), the brightness is very low for my liking in LB. Standard 120 Hz makes it easier to spot targets and so far I had better luck winning games in this mode.

Which monitor? Some models of monitors have much brighter LightBoost than others. Also, the LightBoost image is brighter if:
-- BENQ Contrast is 65 and ASUS Contrast is 90
-- LightBoost setting is set to 100% in OSD

It's true, however, that not everyone likes LightBoost. I game at night so LightBoost is perfect brightness for my eyes; Brightness=100% is too bright for me. But I understand everyone has different personal preferences.

What we need is new monitors that are PWM-free in non-LightBoost mode, and also has super-bright strobes during LightBoost mode, so the image is not dim for 2D use.

 

[elvn]

Mark, I could be wrong but my gut feeling after reading his posts is that the guy likes to use any non-hack hardware exploits of any kind to get any advantage over other players and increase his ladder ranking in BF3 - so his complaints may be due to the fact that he can't crank the brightness up a lot in order to get an advantage in seeing enemies who in typical scene views would be harder to see naturally (they are in the shadow of a building, trees/vegetation, in a dark window, etc). If that is the case I don't think it would be fair to criticize the lightboost monitor's brightness in that regard unless it were making shadowed/dark parts of the scene and architecture much darker than a realistic design view would have intended.

 

[NukeDukem]

nm...

 

[Falkentyne]

Mark, I could be wrong but my gut feeling after reading his posts is that the guy likes to use any non-hack hardware exploits of any kind to get any advantage over other players and increase his ladder ranking in BF3 - so his complaints may be due to the fact that he can't crank the brightness up a lot in order to get an advantage in seeing enemies who in typical scene views would be harder to see naturally (they are in the shadow of a building, trees/vegetation, in a dark window, etc). If that is the case I don't think it would be fair to criticize the lightboost monitor's brightness in that regard unless it were making shadowed/dark parts of the scene and architecture much darker than a realistic design view would have intended.

This is true.
He'd be better off using one of the "gamer" gamma tweaked profiles (which change the shades of darks) if that's what he's aiming for.

It's like those who use R_Picmic (or whatever it was) 1 in Quake 3....

 

[havuk88]

Just de-matte a 144 Hz Asus, best option yet.

is it easy to de-matte a screen?

 

[mutantmagnet]

YMWV
Vega made a guide on OCN

 

[jayfkay]

EDIT: Nevermind, seems Windows did had a backup after all and now everything works like before.. Still, what the hell? Just after installing one shitty program that worked flawlessly on my old PC.

Guys I have a problem... I will tell the whole story, just for background.
I had the lightboost going and working and everything worked fine on my xl2411t + 660ti. However there was a problem: The crimson tint, which was supposedly fixed by this: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039557324&postcount=505. However this "fix" introduces a riddiculous amount of green tint on the monitor. Through chance I, however, noticed that this was not always the case: I found 2 different LIGHTBOOSTOverrideEDID.inf files, one named something like that, the other named ASUS etc.inf, and with one of them, the green tint would not be there, instead the image would be perfect with the crimson tint fix applied.
Now the real problem: BLack Ops 2 only allows you to limit fps to 125 or "unlimited", so I installed "dxtory" to limit the video fps to 180 just for testing purposes. Upon doing so, something crazy happened:
Usually when I just started the game the FPS would be low and float around 60-100, it seemed like my computer needed a moment to use full capacity on the game? and then it was pretty much always above 200. However after installing dxtory it would not change, always stay at the low fps in the beginning, like the game environment wouldnt fully load in to the GPU/CPU.. (((
This problem remained even after uninstalling dxtory.
So I died a little on the inside over this problem on my brandnew 700&#8364; system and decided to reinstall the nvidia driver -
and now neither of the EDID override.infs would fix the green tint, PLUS the problem still remains...
My fps in black ops 2 float between 100 and 200 with stuttering and sometimes drop to fucking 60, while they previously were 200+ constantly.

What am I supposed to do?`Reinstall windows I guess.. since windows backup is disabled on my ssd..

 

[Mark Rejhon]

FYI -- Resetting from the green tint is easy -- just reset nVidia Control Panel to Default -- or set combined Brightness/Contrast to the middle setting (R/G/B=50% for Contrast/Brightness). You can also use numbers between the default and the crimson fix, to gain a balance between green-color and magenta-color.
You don't have to reinstall Windows to fix a green tint.

Also, NCX just recently posted he found it easier to calibrate a BENQ LightBoost than an ASUS LightBoost;

 

[Mark Rejhon]

I got the VG248QE, but I haven't had any luck enabling LightBoost with an AMD/ATI card. It doesn't seem to be a simple DDC command. I will work with Mark to try to figure this out.

For NVIDIA users, LightBoost can be enabled entirely by using CRU without installing inf or reg files.

http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU

1. The drop-down list should have an entry for each monitor. If there are more entries and you're not sure which ones are active, run reset-all.exe and reboot. That should leave you with an entry for each connected monitor.
2. If you don't have a 3D emitter, use the "Edit..." button at the very top to set the product ID to ACI27F8 for each monitor. This will make the driver think you have a VG278H with a built-in emitter so you can enable 3D mode. The model name doesn't matter and can be set to whatever you want.
3. Use the "Import..." button at the bottom to import this file: lightboost.bin
   I've included the 120/110/100 Hz LightBoost resolutions. You can remove the ones you don't need. If you have multiple monitors, use the copy and paste buttons at the top to copy the resolutions to the other monitor entries.
4. Click OK to save the changes, then reboot.
5. In the NVIDIA control panel, open the "Set up stereoscopic 3D" page, then click the "Run Setup Wizard" button. If the button isn't there, uncheck "Enable stereoscopic 3D" and click the "Apply" button.
6. In the setup wizard, click the "Next" button, then click "Next" again. At this point, it should enable LightBoost, and if you don't have an emitter, the mouse cursor will be very sluggish and jerky. If you don't need to enable 3D, you can exit here. Otherwise, continue the wizard as usual.

Now LightBoost should be enabled and stay enabled as long as the monitor isn't unplugged. If there is a power outage, you will have to run the setup wizard again.

If you update the video driver, you might have to go through the process again. I might make a program to simplify the process, but I need to figure out how to enable LightBoost directly in the monitor without having to run the setup wizard manually.

Thanks for your good work; this should streamline the process significantly for many LightBoost users, especially for surround LightBoost.

We'd still appreciate it if you can create a streamlned version.to automate more of this procedure. Now one of us needs to decide how to proceed -- e.g. Arduino serial line monitor on the DCC line....

 

[Bone_Enterprise]

So I think the time has come to where I want to replace my ASUS VW266H with something new, the main use of my rig is gaming and far and in between use of adobe products to edit various things, I currently am running a GTX 680 on a single monitor.

I am still on the fence about running a single / dual monitors, though I have got accustom to running multi-monitor at the office and would like to have the same experience at home as well, though in the end I will most likely end up with one monitor.

Since I am getting something new, I also would like to get something larger, so with that being said I am leaning towards the VG278HE or XL2720T, I have no interest in having a built in web cam, nor have any aspirations on using the 3D glasses that come with the VG278H model and would much rather save the $150 since I am not going to use those features anyways.

BenQ as of yesterday has the XL2720T in stock and ready to order off of their website directly for $499 with free ground shipping (just got off the phone with them and verified that information,) is the BenQ a better choice over the ASUS monitor?

There is money that I don't have burning a hole in my pocket, help me decide my new video display device!

 

[elvn]

Personally I would get the asus VG248QE if I was primarily gaming on that rig, and I'd save up for a $350 or less korean 2560x1440 ips or a similar u.s. vendored one in the long run for all things desktop outside of gaming. That would be a great monitor setup for $750 or less . You could get a monitor arm off monoprice.com for the 24" so that it sits closer to your eyeballs too. Perceived size is relative to viewing distance.
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I would like there to be a 1ms glossy 27" lightboost option similar to the asus and benq 1ms backlight ones though, but nothing like that in sight.

 

[HR_The_Butcher]

Which monitor? Some models of monitors have much brighter LightBoost than others. Also, the LightBoost image is brighter if:
-- BENQ Contrast is 65 and ASUS Contrast is 90
-- LightBoost setting is set to 100% in OSD

It's true, however, that not everyone likes LightBoost. I game at night so LightBoost is perfect brightness for my eyes; Brightness=100% is too bright for me. But I understand everyone has different personal preferences.

It's not just brightness, perhaps I should have made myself more clear. With the bright, saturated image of a standard 120 Hz mode BF3 looks better to my eyes than in lightboost mode, and the enemies stand out against the backdrop more, making them easier to see.

I'm not against the LB, but the perceived difference in smoothness going from standard 120 Hz or 144 Hz to LB isn't enough for me to justify darker and bland picture. Perhaps the LB mode can be set up to my liking and I need to spend time with profiles (iccs I installed from internet just made it look worse), which still leaves the inconvenience of pushing the CTRL-T at the start of the every round and every alt-tab (the 'permanent' trick doesn't work with BF3).

Again, this is just my experience with VG248 and BF3, the game I have so far played for 1200 hours.

Agreed on the new monitors. Perhaps then Eleven will buy a LB model so he can share his own experiences.

 

[elvn]

I'm just painted into a corner with my amd card at the moment. Whenever I drop considerable $ on nvidia upgrade I would be all about lightboost. 6gb Titan + VG248QE would be great .. 2x 680's is also up there in price (if not more for certain models). Not going to drop $1300 just yet since I just bought a bunch of stuff for my house. I am following the lightboost threads avidly however. The closest I can get is 17 to 18 / 30 on the pixelperan test on my crosstalk/aftershadow and input lag samsung A750D for now.

Maybe I'll see what I can get for my 6990 + A750D on different sale forums, craigslist, etc. I have few 60hz monitors laying around that would be fine for ordinary desktop use for non enthusiasts that I could sell off too.

I was fine using a fw900 crt in regard to brightness levels during gaming sessions, so I doubt the lightboost mode's brightness after tweaking would be a problem for me during games. I can't say for sure since I don't own one yet of course.

edit: saturation is another matter. You don't want to be looking at something leaning toward sepia blandness. I can understand how that would make things blend together more. I'm curious what people's results would be if they used SweetFX on their games in lightboost mode. SweetFX a universal image improvement and tweaking mod. One of many image tweaks it does is saturation/vibrance. It also has good forced SMAA , lighting modification, etc. There are some decent youtube vids on how it works. One in particular is showing its effects on borderlands2.

Borderlands 2 Improving Graphics Guide: SweetFX Tutorial. SMAA. Sharpening. Vibrance and more!
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SweetFX Tutorial: Part 1
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Guru 3D: SweetFX download and explanation/details page

*note - It does not work with 64bit game executables yet, however 64bit support should be coming in the near future -
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[elvn]

I would like there to be a 1ms glossy 27" lightboost option similar to the asus and benq 1ms backlight ones though, but nothing like that in sight.

Guess I haven't been looking hard enough. I thought the VG278H and HE were the only 27" ones with lightboost , and wasn't interested in their 2ms backlight and potential crosstalk / afterimage shadows. The BenQ XL2720T seems to be a 1ms response time monitor with lightboost. I don't know if its backlight is 1ms though and what its 2D lightboost synchronized gaming performance is. It's also not glossy but I'd consider removing the AG coating on whichever monitor I eventually purchase if I had to.

 

[Bone_Enterprise]

Still considering the XL2720T, I don't see a point in purchasing two separate monitors then having to switch between the two for whatever task is at hand, and unless it is after the warranty I will never remove the AG coating, even still I may not once it is up, too much shit that could go wrong once you remove that layer.

Has anyone else made the plunge and purchased the XL2720T yet?

 

[elvn]

Not that I've seen. I'm very interested myself.
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....In regard to dual monitors - I switch between monitors for gaming , otherwise I have a 2560x1440 27" ips with a 19" 900x1440 next to it in portrait mode for some extra sidebar space. There are a lot of multi monitor setups in the Show Your LCD(s) setups!!! thread.
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....Using two is simple. I've been using two monitors for years now, back to a FW900 + a 22" 1680 x 1050, a 27.5" 1920x1200 + FW900, and later high ppi 2560x1440 IPS + FW900, and later still 2560 x1440 IPS + 27" 120hz TN (Samsung A750D). There have always been huge tradeoffs between monitor types so it has always been best in my opinion to run two different monitors (if you can afford to). I would never go back from a high hz and appreciable blur reduction LCD in gaming (and sometime this year complete blur reduction hopefully), and neither would I sacrifice the gorgeous color, uniformity, high ppi, and desktop real-estate of my 2560x1440 ips for everything outside of games. If I'm web browsing and using applications/suites, I'm in front of the ips for long periods. If I'm playing a game, I'm in front of the gaming monitor for a considerable period of time. Even running a few parts of a "quickie" game like a few maps of a L4D2 campaign or a TF2 map battle can take 20 - 30min. Gaming sessions on other games are often a lot longer. Since I have a large 3-pane desk (sort-of a chamfered boomerang shape), I can easily switch between monitors using my chair. I use the entire desk surface for my peripherals. I don't like keyboard trays. I set up a wireless ms ergo keyboard and another mouse at the ips (and stow a graphics pen tablet as well). At my gaming monitor, I have a gaming keyboard and a few mice (g9x and a naga). I also have a g13 gameboard which I use exclusively in games other than if I need to type text. I barely need a keyboard in front of the monitor and sit with mouse and g13 on opposite sides, in a "throne" position that I find very ergonomic.
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The cost of having a similar monitor setup now is ridiculously low compared to previous years. You can get a 24" 120hz - 144hz lightboost monitor for $300 (or $400 - $500 for the 27" I guess) - and a 2560x1440 27" glossy ips for $350 or less. Its crazy. The ips alone would be $800 - $1100 just a year or two ago. They are gorgeous panels, they just suck for gaming by comparison. Anything compared to zero blur would be ruled out for me for gaming now that we have that option.

 

[Mark Rejhon]

Some interesting stuff I've learned about LightBoost:

- NewEgg mentions LightBoost at 5:18 in their popular YouTube
- ASUS is now aware about LightBoost; it was an ASUS rep talking about it in the video.
- ASUS confirms LightBoost 2D blur elimination is a significant driver of sales for their VG248QE monitor (based on NewEgg/Amazon reviews and the surge after the YouTube, more than 10% of sales due to LightBoost)
- The VG248QE is currently the world's hottest-selling popular 120 Hz computer monitor.

Reading the customer reviews of Amazon and NewEgg, more people mention LightBoost's 2D motion blur elimination than LightBoost's 3D Vision benefit. Also, googling "LightBoost" brings the zero motion blur benefit as the top hits now.

 

[Vega]

Some interesting stuff I've learned about LightBoost:

- NewEgg mentions LightBoost at 5:18 in their popular YouTube
- ASUS is now aware about LightBoost; it was an ASUS rep talking about it in the video.
- ASUS confirms LightBoost 2D blur elimination is a significant driver of sales for their VG248QE monitor (more than 10% of sales due to LightBoost)
- The VG248QE is currently the world's hottest-selling popular 120 Hz computer monitor.

Reading the customer reviews of Amazon and NewEgg, more people mention LightBoost's 2D motion blur elimination than LightBoost's 3D Vision benefit. Also, googling "LightBoost" brings the zero motion blur benefit as the top hits now.

Glad to hear the news!

 

[Mark Rejhon]

I think nVidia knows too, according to my weblogs. I have a few hits from nVidia in my web logfile, also reading my blog.

It needs to become a more popular and easy-to-enable feature in computer monitors, including future IPS LCD monitors.

 

[elvn]

I've been talking it up in computer enthusiast channels, forums (including other hardforum threads where people had no idea about it), and in-game chat interfaces. Every little bit helps.

 

[Mark Rejhon]

I've been talking it up in computer enthusiast channels, forums (including other hardforum threads where people had no idea about it), and in-game chat interfaces. Every little bit helps.

Gotta be careful -- even with me stopping "boosting" LightBoost nearly as much as I used to, there are now so many entusiac people about LightBoost that they begin to spam too many forums, occasionally annoying people. Still, it's a popular selling feature of VG248QE's. For many of us enthusiasts who is sensitive to motion blur, it's the LCD Holy Grail (LCD pixel persistence barrier successfully shattered), while others don't care as much.

Regarding, I'd imagine it is probably already pushing millions of dollars in sales in Titans, GTX680's, and LightBoost monitors. Started as a hobbyist/enthusiast blog, Blur Busters currently earns nothing of that (yet)

 

[elvn]

eh same thing (talking them up, expressing joy about their performance ad nauseam) happened when 120hz monitors came out

I know at least three people who I chat with online in computer enthusiast channels bought VG248QE's after I told them details about what lightboost2 gaming does. No idea what effect or #'s contributing details about it to threads had.
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It's too bad they haven't thrown you a bone having actually discovered it, tested it, and relayed it so well to everyone including your cool site of course.
.
I'm glad I had to wait it out (mostly since I am painted into a corner with amd card for now), since I wanted a 27" one and the benQ XL2720T is coming out. If it were glossy it would be just what I was looking for. I'll probably risk the AG coating removal though.

 

[rudy]

Its always amazing to me how a bunch of highly paid engineers and multibillion dollar companies are so dense so often. They have no clue what their higher paying customers really want.

There are so many times in recent display history that no one gave a shit about the actual technology they advertised and we only cared about a side effect of it. Light boost as a side effect of eliminating cross talk, 120hz as a side effect of the need to run 60hz in 3d, The sad thing is if these idiots would just put some engineers in the gaming community and get them talking they could do so much better. think about how many more large plasma / lcd displays they would sell if they just enabled higher frame rates with PC inputs on them and told the gaming community which would include millions of XBOXers and such this was a feature.

 

[bmg]

Its always amazing to me how a bunch of highly paid engineers and multibillion dollar companies are so dense so often. They have no clue what their higher paying customers really want.

There are so many times in recent display history that no one gave a shit about the actual technology they advertised and we only cared about a side effect of it. Light boost as a side effect of eliminating cross talk, 120hz as a side effect of the need to run 60hz in 3d, The sad thing is if these idiots would just put some engineers in the gaming community and get them talking they could do so much better. think about how many more large plasma / lcd displays they would sell if they just enabled higher frame rates with PC inputs on them and told the gaming community which would include millions of XBOXers and such this was a feature.

So very true.

 

[Bone_Enterprise]

Not that I've seen. I'm very interested myself.
.
....In regard to dual monitors - I switch between monitors for gaming , otherwise I have a 2560x1440 27" ips with a 19" 900x1440 next to it in portrait mode for some extra sidebar space. There are a lot of multi monitor setups in the Show Your LCD(s) setups!!! thread.
.
....Using two is simple. I've been using two monitors for years now, back to a FW900 + a 22" 1680 x 1050, a 27.5" 1920x1200 + FW900, and later high ppi 2560x1440 IPS + FW900, and later still 2560 x1440 IPS + 27" 120hz TN (Samsung A750D). There have always been huge tradeoffs between monitor types so it has always been best in my opinion to run two different monitors (if you can afford to). I would never go back from a high hz and appreciable blur reduction LCD in gaming (and sometime this year complete blur reduction hopefully), and neither would I sacrifice the gorgeous color, uniformity, high ppi, and desktop real-estate of my 2560x1440 ips for everything outside of games. If I'm web browsing and using applications/suites, I'm in front of the ips for long periods. If I'm playing a game, I'm in front of the gaming monitor for a considerable period of time. Even running a few parts of a "quickie" game like a few maps of a L4D2 campaign or a TF2 map battle can take 20 - 30min. Gaming sessions on other games are often a lot longer. Since I have a large 3-pane desk (sort-of a chamfered boomerang shape), I can easily switch between monitors using my chair. I use the entire desk surface for my peripherals. I don't like keyboard trays. I set up a wireless ms ergo keyboard and another mouse at the ips (and stow a graphics pen tablet as well). At my gaming monitor, I have a gaming keyboard and a few mice (g9x and a naga). I also have a g13 gameboard which I use exclusively in games other than if I need to type text. I barely need a keyboard in front of the monitor and sit with mouse and g13 on opposite sides, in a "throne" position that I find very ergonomic.
.
The cost of having a similar monitor setup now is ridiculously low compared to previous years. You can get a 24" 120hz - 144hz lightboost monitor for $300 (or $400 - $500 for the 27" I guess) - and a 2560x1440 27" glossy ips for $350 or less. Its crazy. The ips alone would be $800 - $1100 just a year or two ago. They are gorgeous panels, they just suck for gaming by comparison. Anything compared to zero blur would be ruled out for me for gaming now that we have that option.

Sigh, alright let us get a few things out of the way.

1. If I do get a multi-monitor setup going, and that is a big _if_, I will be getting monitors of the same brand/size/etc, not mixing panel types or panels that have different resolutions.
2. I have a 5' fold out table as my 'desk' so the avaliable real estate I have to put shit is at a prime.
3. While it is not monitor releated whatsoever, ergonomic keyboards in my opinion are horrible abortions that need to be done away with, and I hate having wireless devices on my personal computer at home.
4. I want to have whatever you are smoking.
5. I am full aware that there are people out there that simply can not do without multiple monitors, I am not one of those people, if I have more than one great, however it's not going to be the end of the world if I don't.

The utilization of your computer versus how I use mine are worlds apart, as already stated if I ever do purchase multiple monitors they will be matching, I will never use wireless/ergonomic peripherals, much less have more than one kind of keyboard/mouse running at the same time on my rig.

So a single 27" is still what I plan on getting, and for now I still plan on procuring the XL2720T from BenQ unless someone has any viable reason why I should consider the VG278HE from ASUS instead, other than the fact it has been out a while and 'tried and tested.'

 

[sadbuttrue]

Its always amazing to me how a bunch of highly paid engineers and multibillion dollar companies are so dense so often. They have no clue what their higher paying customers really want.

There are so many times in recent display history that no one gave a shit about the actual technology they advertised and we only cared about a side effect of it. Light boost as a side effect of eliminating cross talk, 120hz as a side effect of the need to run 60hz in 3d, The sad thing is if these idiots would just put some engineers in the gaming community and get them talking they could do so much better. think about how many more large plasma / lcd displays they would sell if they just enabled higher frame rates with PC inputs on them and told the gaming community which would include millions of XBOXers and such this was a feature.

It's too late. The vast majority of PC gamers today consider 30fps a playable frame rate. I blame the console generation and relative slowness of LCDs. Just go read the Planetside 2 forums where people are happy when their fps jumps from 20 to 25 during an update. A decade ago most PC gamers wouldn't have settled for anything less than refresh rate fps (85hz+ on a CRT).

 

[dentnu]

Hi I would like to buy a 120hz or 144hz panel but I have a few questions hope someone can please answer them. I just bought the BenQ GW2750 2 weeks algo and while the colors on this panel are the best I have seen I do not like it for gaming as there is to much motion blur and other little problems. I would like to get a 120hz or 144hz panel is I main just use my pc for web and gaming. I am planing on returning my the GW2750 but I only have a few days left and need to make a decision as soon as possible on which new monitor I will be replacing it with.

1. Is there a a big differnce from 120hz to 144hz and which one is better ?

2. What would you guys recommend to be the best 27'' panel that I can buy right now that has the least motion blur and good colors ?

3. I saw the xl2720t just got released would that be my best option or should I get an asus panel ?

Thanks

 

[Mark Rejhon]

I have no interest in having a built in web cam, nor have any aspirations on using the 3D glasses that come with the VG278H model and would much rather save the $150 since I am not going to use those features anyways.

One thing to keep in mind that the crosstalk is slightly worse on the VG278HE than the VG278H. However, the VG248QE and XL2411T both have less crosstalk. This is of importance if you're concerned about eliminating as much minor LightBoost artifacts as possible (crosstalk between refreshes can also create 2D LightBoost artifacts in the form of a "faint sharp ghost" effect, of a very faint razor-sharp ghost image trailing behind the refresh. It has the same intensity as the crosstalk during 3D. Less crosstalk, less LightBoost artifact). Note 27" is a bit problematic for TN due to color shift, which you will see at Lagom Viewing Angle.

However, the new BENQ 27" monitor is the newest and fastest 27", so the XL2720T may be the best 27" LightBoost monitor. But we're still waiting for LightBoost user test reports; though we expect it to probably be the best LightBoost 27" knowing BENQ's excellent job in eliminating crosstalk on the other LightBoost monitors. If people are looking at 27", I would not be surprised if the BENQ is excellent.

That said, if you get the VG278(H/HE), the VG278H has better 2D LightBoost.

 

[Mark Rejhon]

1. Is there a a big differnce from 120hz to 144hz and which one is better ?

LightBoost is only supported at 120Hz. However, there's much less motion blur at LightBoost 120Hz than non-LightBoost 144Hz. The principle (stroboscopic flicker as motion blur elimination) is exactly the same as why CRT 60fps@60Hz has less motion blur than LCD 120fps@120Hz.

PixPerAn Tests on BENQ XL2411T and ASUS VG278H

baseline - 60 Hz mode (16.7ms continuously-shining frame)
50% less motion blur (2x clearer) - 120 Hz mode (8.33ms continuously-shining frame)
60% less motion blur (2.4x clearer) - 144 Hz mode (6.94ms continuously-shining frame)
85% less motion blur (7x clearer) - 120 Hz LightBoost, set to 100% (2.4ms frame strobe flashes)
92% less motion blur (12x clearer) - 120 Hz LightBoost, set to 10% (1.4ms frame strobe flashes)

Fortunately you get both so you can try both out; all 144Hz monitors in existence all have LightBoost (at the moment). That said, occasionally, for one reason or another, the 120Hz version have slightly better image quality than 144Hz -- possibly because the panels limits aren't being reached -- see the user comparision between VG278H and VG278HE.

2. What would you guys recommend to be the best 27'' panel that I can buy right now that has the least motion blur and good colors ?

The three 27" monitors with the LightBoost zero motion blur ability are the VG278H, XL2720T, and VG278HE.

The good colors are not always easy to come on TN by but you can calibrate them. I highly recommend purchasing a Spyder sensor or similar; to help calibrate the color of your TN monitor. I have the VG278H, and it has good colors TN-panel wise -- which isn't saying much. I also have the XL2411T which has better LightBoost, but is smaller, and the yellows are somewhat duller on it than the VG278H.

3. I saw the xl2720t just got released would that be my best option or should I get an asus panel ?

We're waiting for reviews on that one. It should be a good one, though.