Diablo 3 Discussion Thread

chockomonkey said:
Do they not have cloth/plate etc distinctions between armors? looks like everyone can wear everything.
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they dont all armor is the same. just its look changes based on who equips it. and the magic bonuses on the armor determines who the gear is for.
 
Would anyone like to lend me a computer for a couple weeks(years) ;)

Either way prob won't be able to swing this until November after foolishly blowing some money earlier in the year.
 
RobustDude said:
Would anyone like to lend me a computer for a couple weeks(years) ;)

Either way prob won't be able to swing this until November after foolishly blowing some money earlier in the year.
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Weekend job at Mcdonalds for the next 2 weekend and you got a machine that might be able to play D3 =)
 
MisterSkills said:
Weekend job at Mcdonalds for the next 2 weekend and you got a machine that might be able to play D3 =)
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my friend found a used one on craigslist for 125 dollars.. threw in a 80 dollar graphics card and hes playing diablo 3 maxed out hahhaha
 
dremic said:
plenty of people using those drivers said they had no trouble playing the beta
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FYI, I posted this info in the thread about 12.4 Catalyst drivers in the AMD video card section but thought it'd be worth posting it here too.

The same Blizzard support rep - Omrakos - who told people that 12.4 wouldn't work with the retail game is NOW saying in a new thread that 12.4 Catalyst drivers WILL work.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4850775064

A user posts about getting the message that the video card isn't supported. Omrakos asks him what his card and drivers are and the user reports he has a Radeon 5850 using the 12.4 drivers. Omrakos replies:

That config will be fine as is. No need to revert. The messaging you see now when trying to run the beta won't necessarily be the same for retail.
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The thread where Omrakos originally said that the retail game wouldn't run with 12.4 drivers has also been deleted. Sheesh. Is there any Q&A testing of Blizzard's support agents?
 
To be fair, game development is a fluid process. It's entirely possible that one of their primary goals between end of beta and launch was to get those drivers working.

I'd be happy if I was an ATI owner right now.
 
jester1176 said:
To be fair, game development is a fluid process. It's entirely possible that one of their primary goals between end of beta and launch was to get those drivers working.
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I think it had more to do with a careless support agent who jumped to conclusions without properly investigating the issue. I doubt there ever was an incompatibility that game developers fixed in the last two days. The Blizzard rep's new explanation makes no mention of Blizzard fixing any incompatibility problems. What he seems to be implying now is that the error message is being thrown up because folks are trying to launch a beta program that has ended. I'd be curious if someone could test but I wouldn't be surprised if everyone - Nvidia, AMD or Intel graphics - who tried to play the beta now got the same error message. Beta access has been disabled so the beta servers can't actually check compatibility so they spit out this error message.

As someone else has pointed out, this Blizzard rep's attention to detail and technical competence is highly questionable. In another thread, he asked a user who was getting the same incompatibility error to post their dxdiag log. That log showed the computer used Intel graphics yet the Blizzard guy told him that his problem were caused by AMD 12.4 drivers and he would have to revert to an older set to run the retail game!
 
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ddarko said:
I think it had more to do with a careless support agent who jumped to conclusions without properly investigating the issue. I doubt there ever was an incompatibility that game developers fixed in the last two days. The Blizzard rep's new explanation makes no mention of Blizzard fixing any incompatibility problems. What he seems to be implying now is that the error message is being thrown up because folks are trying to launch a beta program that has ended. I'd be curious if someone could test but I wouldn't be surprised if everyone - Nvidia, AMD or Intel graphics - who tried to play the beta now got the same error message. Beta access has been disabled so the beta servers can't actually check compatibility so they spit out this error message.
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Its a new error after a update was applied, AFTER the beta ended.
I launched the game just fine 2 days after Beta ended, it just wouldn't connect to b.net. I just tried it now, it downloaded an update and on execution gave the error message of video card not being supported. Game doesn't launch now, so its something they added in an update and apparently are fixing.
 
 
Any word or speculations on a runewords-like system in D3?? I was kinda bummed after finding out that runes modifies your spells.
 
jumper said:
Any word or speculations on a runewords-like system in D3?? I was kinda bummed after finding out that runes modifies your spells.
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Blizzard said they wanted to avoid mechanics of the game that require so much research outside of the game, I'm pretty sure they have no plans for runewords.

I'm fine with that, runewords is just a more complex version of itemization, why not just simplify that with a good random drop table (or random crafting)? The only true skill of runewords were people discovering the closed bnet only words trial and error. After that, everyone got to reap the benifits of the hardcore few.
 
Breath_of_the_Dying said:
Blizzard said they wanted to avoid mechanics of the game that require so much research outside of the game, I'm pretty sure they have no plans for runewords.

I'm fine with that, runewords is just a more complex version of itemization, why not just simplify that with a good random drop table (or random crafting)? The only true skill of runewords were people discovering the closed bnet only words trial and error. After that, everyone got to reap the benifits of the hardcore few.
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Huh. A guy who named himself after BOTD is OK with the removal of runeword mechanics.

Interesting.
 
Saw the first TV spot during the playoffs a few days ago, and then just saw another new one. Fuck they look sweet, and christ now Blizzard has really come full circle as a money making machine when their trailers on TV look like movie studio trailers.
 
Amaroth said:
Saw the first TV spot during the playoffs a few days ago, and then just saw another new one. Fuck they look sweet, and christ now Blizzard has really come full circle as a money making machine when their trailers on TV look like movie studio trailers.
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one of the wow expansion trailers fooled my sister she thought it was a movie coming out.
 
Breath_of_the_Dying said:
Blizzard said they wanted to avoid mechanics of the game that require so much research outside of the game, I'm pretty sure they have no plans for runewords.
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Sounds like just an excuse to me. Meta-gaming will always exist in games, try as they might, they will never get rid of it. I know, 100% without a doubt that shortly after the game is out guides will be out that say what the "best" builds are and people will follow them because they want to be the most optimal with their character. The fact that Blizzard is trying to stop this is a futile effort. Also, removing more potential options such as runes, or strength requirements (regardless of whether they were considered suboptimal by meta-gaming standards) does a disservice to the complexity of the game.

The precise reason Diablo 2 survives is because it's a more "free" and "open" game. For example, Blizzard while developing Diablo 2, decided they wanted to allow players to be able to kill each other, so they simply created a pvp "flag" that allowed players to attack each other and said have at it, it's up to the players now to figure out how to use it. That's literally all they did with PK system in Diablo 2. What cropped up as a result? A slew of creative PK builds and lower level PKers with meta-gaming builds. Magic finding perfect low level PK items and jewels sold for hundreds of times more than high level bot farmed uniques, etc. Low level druids with a full inventory of charms and gear that gave +skills to summoning, making his bear summon extremely strong to kill people a much higher level than him. Stuff like that. Now you can't PK anymore, so that entire "road" of replayability is out the window.

Even the item suffixes and mechanics around those suffixes helped Diablo 2 significantly. The +goldfind suffix on items that determined how much gold would drop after a monster was killed could be stacked to insane levels (+2000% or more) to cap out your gold minutes. The suffix alone would have been relatively harmless, but when you combine it with the mechanic of unique monsters dropping significantly more gold than normal monsters, Blizzard now kind of indirectly created the ability to amass a large amount of gold very quickly due to how those mechanics relate to each other. The perfect setup for those that loved to use the gamble npcs.

Then you have silly mechanics, like the fact that +skills for necromancer curses increase the range at which they affect monsters, which made it viable with enough +skill items to curses to use certain curses to carpet the entire screen and even a large portion off screen with curses like "dim" (blind the monsters) or "confuse" to make all the monsters on screen and multiple screens away fight each other. Very handy for hardcore mode.

All of these little things are what has kept Diablo 2 going for so long. It was a game with a bunch of little things throw in for fun without any real thought on the consequence. These days companies are trying to be super precise, along with a "everyone wins" attitude, and are removing alot of the small little details that added individual creativity and enjoyment. The gold suffix is in Diablo 3, so that's nice, but I hope it doesn't cap out or suffer "diminishing returns" very quickly which is a possibility judging from modern design decisions lately. Also, lifting entire assets directly from World of Warcraft doesn't help Diablo 3 any. You may fool some people who haven't played WoW, but you won't slip it by everyone. I'm talking about entire models, animations, and textures.

And let's not even get started on Battle.net 2.0. Inferior in every way from the old battle.net. The only thing it has going for it is cross-game communication with friends. The interface is terrible, there's no real "lobby" system before entering a game, you can't choose which games to join specifically, AND it punishes people's own creativity. You're always online, but you feel totally alone until you actually enter a game (which you can't even choose). Also, the custom games system in Starcraft 2 is TERRIBLY designed. They broke so many things it's not even funny. Blizzard is going downhill.

meh... this post was supposed to be only a sentence or two. Oh well. I'll still buy D3, but the train is going in the wrong direction. Blizzard still has a large "buffer" of reputation to lean on to improve things.

/rantoff
 
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Wildace said:
one of the wow expansion trailers fooled my sister she thought it was a movie coming out.
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Their current campaign push is the best they have ever done. It is also a sign they are more worried about sales than a quality groundbreaking innovating game. They still put out a good product but it lacks from what they were. I will be buying D3 purely for the story. I want to see the story hopefully wrap up but i'm sure there will be an expansion.

PornoSatan your dead on. I applaud Blizzard for what they have accomplished but they need an infusion of creativity and inspiration right to their jugular. Maybe that will be Titan.
 
Amaroth said:
Their current campaign push is the best they have ever done. It is also a sign they are more worried about sales than a quality groundbreaking innovating game. They still put out a good product but it lacks from what they were. I will be buying D3 purely for the story. I want to see the story hopefully wrap up but i'm sure there will be an expansion.

PornoSatan your dead on. I applaud Blizzard for what they have accomplished but they need an infusion of creativity and inspiration right to their jugular. Maybe that will be Titan.
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WoW's problem is "Team B". Team "A" was the creative force that made WoW and kept it interesting for a while (up to TBC expansion) and had all the creative juices but they are long gone , most of them moved on to other jobs at other developers and the rest are working on Titan.

Team "B" that currently runs WoW was responsible for class balancing and game mechanics patches and has the creative range of Ketchup.
 
Bliizzard North != Blizzard. Diablo 3 isn't going to have the atmosphere or the style of the previous games; it's going to be World of Warcraft with a new font.
 
Godmachine said:
WoW's problem is "Team B". Team "A" was the creative force that made WoW and kept it interesting for a while (up to TBC expansion) and had all the creative juices but they are long gone , most of them moved on to other jobs at other developers and the rest are working on Titan.

Team "B" that currently runs WoW was responsible for class balancing and game mechanics patches and has the creative range of Ketchup.
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Sorry I don't agree with your timeline or your opinion. Blizzard was in trouble after Blizzard North was disbanded and the B.Net brain trusts. You have a point about Team A and B, but the company as a whole has changed their development philosophy. I see too many parallels between Activision and Blizzard. I remember when they promised us nothing would change. Its sad but if I want to feel better I look up and admire my WC,WC2,WC3, SC, D1&2 gear.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard posted items for sale on the RMAH to control the games economy and make even more profit at the same time. Considering everything posted will be anonymous it will be even easier for them to get away with something like that.
 
PornoSatan said:
Sounds like just an excuse to me. Meta-gaming will always exist in games, try as they might, they will never get rid of it. I know, 100% without a doubt that shortly after the game is out guides will be out that say what the "best" builds are and people will follow them because they want to be the most optimal with their character. The fact that Blizzard is trying to stop this is a futile effort.
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Yup. Just look on the top of the last page, there was someone already asking for critique for his build. I also think the fact that build calculator exists just proves that Blizzard knows people are going to be sharing builds and trying to strive for the best build, like what happens in every online (mmo)rpg.

Also, removing more potential options such as runes, or strength requirements (regardless of whether they were considered suboptimal by meta-gaming standards) does a disservice to the complexity of the game.
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I am worried about the longevity of Diablo 3. I know Diablo 2 lasted me for years, now I will be surprised if D3 lasts me a year. I am sure it will be a great time, but I have low hopes for over a year of replayability for me. I'd like to be wrong however.
 
Skizzy said:
Yup. Just look on the top of the last page, there was someone already asking for critique for his build. I also think the fact that build calculator exists just proves that Blizzard knows people are going to be sharing builds and trying to strive for the best build, like what happens in every online (mmo)rpg.
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Being ABLE to "meta" the game and play with builds and calculators and such is just smart business - knowing your audience. REQUIRING "meta-gaming" to be able to have a build viable through the end of Hell Difficulty (D2) is what they are trying to stop. They want to eliminate the NEED to look stuff up to get something that works; they never said they wanted to eliminate the ABILITY to for those that wanted it.


PornoSatan said:
Also, removing more potential options such as runes, or strength requirements (regardless of whether they were considered suboptimal by meta-gaming standards) does a disservice to the complexity of the game.
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Having complexity simply for the sake of having complexity does not a good/great game make - especially when about 95% of it was wrong (D2).


 
uzor said:
Being ABLE to "meta" the game and play with builds and calculators and such is just smart business - knowing your audience. REQUIRING "meta-gaming" to be able to have a build viable through the end of Hell Difficulty (D2) is what they are trying to stop. They want to eliminate the NEED to look stuff up to get something that works; they never said they wanted to eliminate the ABILITY to for those that wanted it
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You aren't required to look up builds to defeat Hell Difficulty... :confused: Back in the day, I had never looked up builds and have beaten Hell countless times.
 
uzor said:
Being ABLE to "meta" the game and play with builds and calculators and such is just smart business - knowing your audience. REQUIRING "meta-gaming" to be able to have a build viable through the end of Hell Difficulty (D2) is what they are trying to stop. They want to eliminate the NEED to look stuff up to get something that works; they never said they wanted to eliminate the ABILITY to for those that wanted it.



Having complexity simply for the sake of having complexity does not a good/great game make - especially when about 95% of it was wrong (D2).


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I think you're kind of confused. You have to start from the beginning of Diablo 2 to get the whole picture. All of Blizzards design choices were intended to be used. They wanted Barbarians to use strength/vitality, Sorceress to use energy, and so on. This is reflected by the class specific bonuses they get into those stats. It wasn't that Blizzard designed them "wrong", it was that gamers found the most optimal way to play, and hence ignored what Blizzard thought they would do. And also, Diablo 2 didn't start out hard. From the beginning all the way until patch 1.10 it was a very easy game, even on Hell difficulty. Most builds were viable and could kill things at a decent rate. Guess what though? The cookie cutter builds, instead of being able to kill at a decent rate, killed at an extremely fast rate. So they reigned supreme. Accordingly, non-cookie cutter builds fell by the wayside despite still being useful and fun. After 1.10 came out, the game got alot more difficult. Monsters hit harder, had more health, and more resistances. Even cookie cutter builds had a hard time if your character wasn't geared.

Even so, through all of that, before 1.10 and after, more knowledgable players were telling less knowledgable players how to play. What items to pick, what skills to pick, and what stats to choose. And if multiplayer was any indication, everyone listened. Diablo 2 was cut open, examined, and sewn shut over and over with surgical precision. It's not going to make the slightest bit of difference in Diablo 3, people will be on the forums asking "What's the best build for the Witch Doctor?" in no time flat. Nobody cares about variety if skill A does more damage than skill B, skill B becomes irrelevant. It's pretty easy to claim Diablo 2 was improperly designed now, years after release. Hindsight 20/20? Diablo 2 wasn't improperly designed. It was designed. And then squeezed at every possible corner like an orange with its skin discarded, by thousands of gamers.
 
Skizzy said:
You aren't required to look up builds to defeat Hell Difficulty... :confused: Back in the day, I had never looked up builds and have beaten Hell countless times.
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Well, I'm glad you apparently did better than I on your own. When I rolled the types of characters that I thought would be *fun to play* (rather than looking specifically for what I thought would get me through Hell), they started to peter out at around Diablo in Nightmare, let alone finishing Hell difficulty. I could have looked up builds that were viable in Hell, but when fun and successful don't go together, why bother?

PornoSatan said:
I think you're kind of confused. You have to start from the beginning of Diablo 2 to get the whole picture. All of Blizzards design choices were intended to be used. They wanted Barbarians to use strength/vitality, Sorceress to use energy, and so on. This is reflected by the class specific bonuses they get into those stats. It wasn't that Blizzard designed them "wrong", it was that gamers found the most optimal way to play, and hence ignored what Blizzard thought they would do. And also, Diablo 2 didn't start out hard. From the beginning all the way until patch 1.10 it was a very easy game, even on Hell difficulty. Most builds were viable and could kill things at a decent rate. Guess what though? The cookie cutter builds, instead of being able to kill at a decent rate, killed at an extremely fast rate. So they reigned supreme. Accordingly, non-cookie cutter builds fell by the wayside despite still being useful and fun. After 1.10 came out, the game got alot more difficult. Monsters hit harder, had more health, and more resistances. Even cookie cutter builds had a hard time if your character wasn't geared.

Even so, through all of that, before 1.10 and after, more knowledgable players were telling less knowledgable players how to play. What items to pick, what skills to pick, and what stats to choose. And if multiplayer was any indication, everyone listened. Diablo 2 was cut open, examined, and sewn shut over and over with surgical precision. It's not going to make the slightest bit of difference in Diablo 3, people will be on the forums asking "What's the best build for the Witch Doctor?" in no time flat. Nobody cares about variety if skill A does more damage than skill B, skill B becomes irrelevant. It's pretty easy to claim Diablo 2 was improperly designed now, years after release. Hindsight 20/20? Diablo 2 wasn't improperly designed. It was designed. And then squeezed at every possible corner like an orange with its skin discarded, by thousands of gamers.
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Well, then all I can say is that we clearly played different games.

 
This is why they are getting rid of skill trees and allowing "on the fly" skill change. The problem with skill points and skill trees is that there are spells that you'd be stupid not to take, along with skills that you never use but have to take just to get the ultimate spells. Before synergy, did anyone pump more than 1 point into cold arrow or fire arrow? The D2 solution was synergy, so you'd pump more into a tree to beef up your ultimate even more. This easily lead down to a "this is the best build, you're wasting points if you dont build your character this way." People calculated it, and everyone followed.

They're aiming for the game to not revolve around best builds, but more flexibility, and less "you did your character wrong, start over." Some people feel the need to make the game harsh and force you start over while learning the game, I do not. I'd rather fix my current character and keep playing. I'm perfectly fine if my glass shotgun build doesnt work, because I can change it. If my group needs more crowd control, I can change to that. If my group need high single enemy damage, I can do that. If the enemy group is ice and fire immune, I can go arcane. When I need more defense for solo, I can do that. I can change my character to what the situation needs. It's easier jumping into a random group instead of waiting for that last person, "need Auradin for runs". There may be a highest dps build, but I dont think it will always be the best choice. I think there will be more "how to play with these skills when you use them" guides than exact "pick these 6 skills with these 5 runes and only these 3 passive" guides.

The rune meta-game its an added layer of complexity that was only fun if you were one of those that looked for the closed bnet ladder runewords. You burned through runes looking for them. For everyone else, me included, it was just another thing you looked up online. I loved my BotD bow, but to me it was no more awesome obtaining it than when I got my buriza or my windforce.

This is the direction blizzard is taking with D3 and MoP, more jump in and play, and less reading outside of the game on how to play it. Will it work out as good as I hope for it to? probably not at the beginning, but I think people will enjoy the swapping as the diffiuclty ramps up in inferno and hell modes.
 
Jay sez they got inferno until the testers and everyone at Bliz thought it was hard enough, then they went ahead and doubled the difficulty. Woah....
 
I saw a really interesting video where they talked about there will be many "viable" builds but they will leave it up to the math nerds to find the "optimum" builds. I saw a video of a ranged barb build and a melee wizard, both seem to be viable. Not a lot of people know about the "Elective Mode" option where you can put abilities in different places for more customization.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVTVMqtmxPU
 
Did anyone else feel that the monk's Wave of Light skill (with the giant bell falling from the sky) just looks totally absurd and out of place? It's the only thing I really took issue with during the beta. It annoyed the hell outta me!
 
I don't want to be forced to play Hardcore mode to avoid the real money auction house. Yet I am. If I don't then I can't use the AH because gold will be worth nothing and I don't want to play with a bunch of p2p people. The should of done a normal game mode that allowed you to opt out. Ass hats!
 
Sorry, haven't read the whole thread, but can anyone tell me if I need to do the pre-download if I have the beta installed? I wouldn't think so, but I'm uncertain because the beta install actually says "beta" in the start menu shortcut which makes me think it might not work for the real game.
 
elchorizo said:
Sorry, haven't read the whole thread, but can anyone tell me if I need to do the pre-download if I have the beta installed? I wouldn't think so, but I'm uncertain because the beta install actually says "beta" in the start menu shortcut which makes me think it might not work for the real game.
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Pre-download isn't necessary. You will however need to install the game upon release. Pre-downloading the game brings you that much closer to having the game ready to run.

Having the beta installed doesn't do anything for you.
 
Amaroth said:
I don't want to be forced to play Hardcore mode to avoid the real money auction house. Yet I am. If I don't then I can't use the AH because gold will be worth nothing and I don't want to play with a bunch of p2p people. The should of done a normal game mode that allowed you to opt out. Ass hats!
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I still dont understand how the RMAH ruins your experience in the game.

Can you not beat the game without ever using the RMAH?
Will you just assume everyone that goes through the game faster than you had to use the RMAH to beat you?
Does people who play with you that use the RMAH make any part of the game harder for you because they used the RMAH?
Whatever the value of gold comes out to be, doesnt that mean that you can sell your items for more gold as well to get what you need?

Blizzard stated that all items on the AH are player driven, meaning everyone can get everything without spending a dime on the RMAH.
 
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