BFG Completely Liquidating, no more RMAs accepted. Project Manager blames Fermi

[Spare-Flair]

http://hardwareaware.com/news/bfg-tech-liquidating/

BFG Technologies, Inc. is winding down and liquidating its business. Unfortunately our major supplier would not support our business. As a result we are returning your graphics card without being able to repair it. We apologize for the inconvenience.

This letter was sent in response to a PSU being returned so it seems this is a generic letter and all BFG products are being refused warranty now. People have also recieved this letter and response when calling BFG from this forum.

BFG’s problems were largely graphics card related, but not related to GTX200. Sales and profit margins on that card were quite good actually. The biggest problem was GTX400 (Fermi) allocation. And the only reason they continued to sell power supplies after they got out of the graphics card business was because there were power supplies to sell. But they couldn’t sell them as quickly as they had been used to because once Best Buy caught wind of BFG not being able to supply graphics cards, they dropped selling their power supply product line as well. If there’s any question as to how much of a dent that put into BFG’s business, let’s put it this way: Best Buy sold TEN TIMES more BFG power supplies than Newegg. Of course, they returned three times as much, but the benefits of the large volume could not be denied.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6921&page=2

It's a sad day... I can't stop thinking about this and had to say something. I'm sorry, I'm late to reply but have been looking for other business opportunities.

I was let go a while back, hence the lack of response. I can tell you guys that any card that I could get replaced while I was there, I did. Everything else was out of my control. I wish you all the best of luck in the future, and I know it's a really shitty situation.

It's been a good run and I had a blast helping you guys out and being a part of this community. I'll still be around, but now just as me, not as a BFG employee.

I thank you guys for the support in the past, and again wish that I can continue to be a part of your community without any hard feelings...

 

[AthlonXP]

wow, so they are done completely then huh..

 

[IRSmurf]

Bring on the saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaales!

 

[Spare-Flair]

Bring on the saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaales!

in the BFG RMA thread in the Nvidia forum, Seafoam called BFG and they told him the warehouse was already empty of all inventory.

 

[MGDMN]

Wow, this sucks. I loved BFG. They never let me down on any of the RMA's that I did. I am sad to see them go.

 

[Reus]

This illustrates why being vendor exclusive is a bad idea. Your supplier totally fumbles a product cycle, or wants to be difficult, you're screwed. If they would have sold ATi cards alongside nVidia, we most likely would not be mourning the death of BFG. EVGA could be in the same boat, but at least they have a rather successful motherboard business to help compensate.

 

[Spare-Flair]

This illustrates why being vendor exclusive is a bad idea. Your supplier totally fumbles a product cycle, you're screwed. If they would have sold ATi cards alongside nVidia, we most likely would not be mourning the death of BFG. EVGA could be in the same boat, but at least they have a rather successful motherboard business to help compensate.

It also highlights exactly why XFX decided to jump ship and it looks like they did it with the right timing as well. Whether Nvidia will let them back onboard is another thing. From this situation, it looks like Nvidia doesn't really value it's AIBs, despite their reputation. It really sucks that one product cycle and Nvidia's refusal to allocate Fermi supply basically ended this company.

I also get the feeling that lifetime warranties are going to be disappearing on videocards in the coming years. EVGA is already putting out many more TR warranty cards. It's like getting insurance without having to pay any premiums. BFG's consumer friendly policies might have been a factor in their decline.

 

[Cali3350]

Im absolute sure ATI would have welcomed them if theyd ask before hand. +1 XFX.

 

[Reus]

It also highlights exactly why XFX decided to jump ship and it looks like they did it with the right timing as well. Whether Nvidia will let them back onboard is another thing. From this situation, it looks like Nvidia doesn't really value it's AIBs, despite their reputation. It really sucks that one product cycle and Nvidia's refusal to allocate Fermi supply basically ended this company.

A company ended for the second time really, I believe BFG was formed from the remnants of the original VisionTek. Board makers should revolt and tell the chip vendors no more exclusivity bullshit, botched product cycle = dead AIB companies. It might work, the chip vendors need the board makers as much as the board makers need them.

 

[chinesepiratefood]

In my opinion, there will be a new company formed out of this - smaller, and will work hard to build up their reputation ala early BFG.

 

[jeremyshaw]

Im absolute sure ATI would have welcomed them if theyd ask before hand. +1 XFX.

Sapphire and the other AIB probably weren't happy with XFX jumping onboard, and Sapphire is (arguably) ATi's favorite, and closest, partner.

 

[Oldie]

I shot this over to the news staff here, sadly it's quite believable, but it would be nice to get it confirmed by some insider.

As soon as BFG announced they were dropping graphics cards, I was pretty damn sure Fermi was at least partially to blame, though I highly doubt it was anywhere near the only factor. Pretty sad to see what appeared to be a great company go down this way.

 

[AltTabbins]

In my opinion, there will be a new company formed out of this - smaller, and will work hard to build up their reputation ala early BFG.

There is. They had a promo video about it a while back. I don't remember the name of the company though.

 

[blastingcap]

Sapphire and the other AIB probably weren't happy with XFX jumping onboard, and Sapphire is (arguably) ATi's favorite, and closest, partner.

Sapphire's parent company also produces Zotac, i.e., NVIDIA, graphics cards. Sapphire is thus part of a conglomerate that sells both ATI and NVIDIA parts.

A company ended for the second time really, I believe BFG was formed from the remnants of the original VisionTek. Board makers should revolt and tell the chip vendors no more exclusivity bullshit, botched product cycle = dead AIB companies. It might work, the chip vendors need the board makers as much as the board makers need them.

BFG trusted NVIDIA (to not screw up too badly, and if so, to at least get a fair allotment for being exclusive) and died because of it, so I'm not so sure that the remnants of BFG will start up another NV-exclusive company after this. Visiontek didn't go out of business btw, so it's kinda harsh to say that BFG sprung up from Visiontek's remnants.

 

[jeremyshaw]

Sapphire's parent company also produces Zotac, i.e., NVIDIA, graphics cards. Sapphire is thus part of a conglomerate that sells both ATI and NVIDIA parts.

The part company is a manufacturing facility, iirc. Both brands, likely, do not share technology, nor patents.

 

[blastingcap]

The part company is a manufacturing facility, iirc. Both brands, likely, do not share technology, nor patents.

I've heard of PCP being referred to as the owner of both, with the longest explanation offered by Firingsquad.com:

"While they’re a newcomer to our roundups and technically were just established in 2006, Zotac isn’t some fly-by-night company running out of someone’s garage. They’re actually a subsidiary of PC Partner (Sapphire); arguably ATI’s most important board partner.

...

Zotac was essentially founded as a result of the Radeon X1800 (R520) fiasco. NVIDIA’s G70 GPU used in the GeForce 7800 GTX had beat R520 to market, giving NVIDIA and their board partners a huge advantage over ATI and their own board partners, who were forced to compete with slower X800 hardware. PC Partner and Sapphire were hit hard by this because they were an ATI exclusive board partner. This was the same problem NVIDIA
board partners faced during the NV30 debacle a few years prior: GeForce FX 5800 was late to market, forcing board partners to peddle GeForce 4 cards longer than they wanted.

Just as ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, and other NVIDIA exclusive partners decided to produce cards for both ATI and NVIDIA as a result of the NV30 fiasco, ATI exclusive partners Sapphire (PC Partner) and PowerColor wanted the flexibility of producing cards for both sides as a result of R520. However, they didn’t want to risk damaging their relationship with ATI, so they decided to quietly launch subsidiaries. Zotac is PC Partner’s subsidiary, while Zogis is underneath the JV Logic umbrella, which includes PowerColor."

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_gtx_260_roundup/page5.asp

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/12514/rumours_pc_partner_to_retool_for_larrabee/index.html

Do you have a newer citation than that?

Yes, of course subsidiaries can indeed operate independently. I wasn't implying that they shared patents; I was merely responding to your talking about Sapphire not liking XFX entering the red side. Maybe that's true, but the parent company makes money on red and green cards and presumably would be indifferent.

 

[jeremyshaw]

I've heard of PCP being referred to as the owner of both, with the longest explanation offered by Firingsquad.com:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_gtx_260_roundup/page5.asp

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/12514/rumours_pc_partner_to_retool_for_larrabee/index.html

Do you have a newer citation than that?

Yes, of course subsidiaries can indeed operate independently. I wasn't implying that they shared patents; I was merely responding to your talking about Sapphire not liking XFX entering the red side. Maybe that's true, but the parent company makes money on red and green cards and presumably would be indifferent.

Very, very true. Thank you!

My latest one was a 2008 quip from Toms
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-4870-palit,2096-3.html

about Sapphire making every reference board for other companies to use.

EDIT: I was thinking about the vapour-X cooler.

 

[MrGuvernment]

I see lawsuit for people who's cards are still in warranty period, the company has to cover a warranty i assume unless there us some fine print and they filed bankruptcy?

Sapphire and the other AIB probably weren't happy with XFX jumping onboard, and Sapphire is (arguably) ATi's favorite, and closest, partner.

wasn't sapphire also the actual board maker for ATI cards sold by ATI... or at least many eon's ago? But sapphire also had a bad CS rep too though.

 

[blastingcap]

I see lawsuit for people who's cards are still in warranty period, the company has to cover a warranty i assume unless there us some fine print and they filed bankruptcy?

wasn't sapphire also the actual board maker for ATI cards sold by ATI... or at least many eon's ago? But sapphire also had a bad CS rep too though.

PCP owns and makes boards for Sapphire and Zotac, and probably other companies too during the initial phases of a new release, i.e., reference boards.

I am not sure but I think if a company goes bankrupt and it's not a case of fraud or something, then the company's first order of business is to give money back to creditors, then to equity holders like stockholders, then whatever is left over might to go customers. So what's the point of suing them if by doing so, you are THIRD in line? Unless you think they have so much money that by the time they give money back to creditors and shareholders, they have money left over for you?

 

[jeremyshaw]

wasn't sapphire also the actual board maker for ATI cards sold by ATI... or at least many eon's ago? But sapphire also had a bad CS rep too though.

According the the tomsHW review linked in the post above yours, they speculate on that.

 

[Notleh]

Is no one else bothered by the fact that BFG flat out lied? In the letter that Kyle posted from BFG they said that they had sent aside plenty of money aside to continue support of RMA's.

I could be wrong, but I do not think it is a stretch to say that they lied to buy time to liquidate their inventory.

I plan to track who was involved because they will probably end up somewhere else in the industry. Wherever they end up I will try to avoid doing business.

 

[xBanzai89]

I don't think companies have to honor warranties if this happens unfortunately.

Shame to see them go. Would love to see them start up with ATI and have step up. More competition on the ATI would be great.

 

[blastingcap]

Very, very true. Thank you!

My latest one was a 2008 quip from Toms
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-4870-palit,2096-3.html

about Sapphire making every reference board for other companies to use.

EDIT: I was thinking about the vapour-X cooler.

No prob.. I guess the moral of the BFG story.. and the Zotac and Powercolor stories, is that it's risky to be dependent on one supplier. I wonder how close EVGA came to bankruptcy... probably not as much, if they made enough money on their mobo sales to counteract the Fermi drought.

 

[jeremyshaw]

Is no one else bothered by the fact that BFG flat out lied? In the letter that Kyle posted from BFG they said that they had sent aside plenty of money aside to continue support of RMA's.

It's also possible they simply ran out. They mentioned their upstream vendor, which is likely nVidia, refusing to give them access to residual stock of cards, as they are no longer an active vendor.

 

[vjcsmoke]

You can sue them all you want but if they declared bankruptcy and now are out of assets, there's not much you can get out of them unless you're first in line. And most likely you're not unless you loaned them some money.

 

[Notleh]

"After eight years of providing innovative, high-quality graphics cards to the market, we regret to say that this category is no longer profitable for us, although we will continue to evaluate it going forward", said John Slevin, chairman of BFG Technologies. "We will continue to provide our award-winning power supplies and gaming systems, and are working on a few new products as well. I’d like to stress that we will continue to provide RMA support for our current graphics card warranty holders, as well as for all of our other products such as power supplies, PCs and notebooks."

BFG will continue to offer RMA, telephone and email support for qualified BFG Tech graphics card warranty holders, but will no longer be bringing new graphics card products to market.

First and foremost, I have to say that HardOCP is sad to see BFGTech go. It was a company that opened up new ways of doing business with customers in the graphics card arena. The solid warranties and support you all enjoy now with high-end graphics cards companies can be traced back to BFGTech and its three founders, Scott Herkelman, Ric Lewis, and Shane Vance.

Of course our biggest concern is that our readers that have purchased BFG video cards are taken care of. Speaking this morning with then BFGTech CEO, Scott Herkelman, he assured me that BFG has taken measures to make sure full RMA and support will continue. Eight full time employees and the full group of tech support will remain in place as well as warehouse labor. That means continued 24/7 phone, email, and full RMA support for registered cards. As of today, BFG has a full reserve of cards and monies set aside to sure proper support occurs.

http://www.hardocp.com/news/2010/05/18/bfgtech_exits_graphics

 

[NKDietrich]

Yeah. Sounds like BFG was full of shit.

 

[Reus]

BFG trusted NVIDIA (to not screw up too badly, and if so, to at least get a fair allotment for being exclusive) and died because of it, so I'm not so sure that the remnants of BFG will start up another NV-exclusive company after this. Visiontek didn't go out of business btw, so it's kinda harsh to say that BFG sprung up from Visiontek's remnants.

The original VisionTek has nothing to do with the current company. Hartford Computer Group acquired the name in 2002. From what I remember, BFG was founded by by people from the original, nVidia exclusive VisionTek.

 

[Yikes2000]

...
Of course our biggest concern is that our readers that have purchased BFG video cards are taken care of. Speaking this morning with then BFGTech CEO, Scott Herkelman, he assured me that BFG has taken measures to make sure full RMA and support will continue. Eight full time employees and the full group of tech support will remain in place as well as warehouse labor. That means continued 24/7 phone, email, and full RMA support for registered cards. As of today, BFG has a full reserve of cards and monies set aside to sure proper support occurs.

http://www.hardocp.com/news/2010/05/18/bfgtech_exits_graphics

It didn't make sense to me when I read that. Why would BFG continue to honor their video card warantee and RMA? More importantly, where was the money coming from that pays for their staff and replacement cards? Profit from BFG power supplies? Highly doubtful. This latest turn of events is the only logical conclusion.

 

[Spare-Flair]

It didn't make sense to me when I read that. Why would BFG continue to honor their video card warantee and RMA? More importantly, where was the money coming from that pays for their staff and replacement cards? Profit from BFG power supplies? Highly doubtful. This latest turn of events is the only logical conclusion.

As Jonnyguru said on his forum, BFG had expected to stay in business selling powersupplies (perhaps while supplies lasted [bad pun]). But when Best Buy discovered they were nolonger allocated graphics cards, they cut BFG off as well which was the primary retail channel for their PSUs. After all that, it's likely Nvidia stopped supplying them as well and RMA replacements completely dried up when they might have earnestly expected to still be in business a little while longer.

 

[Spare-Flair]

There's a nice response to this by Jeff over in the BFG RMA thread.

It's a sad day... I can't stop thinking about this and had to say something. I'm sorry, I'm late to reply but have been looking for other business opportunities.

I was let go a while back, hence the lack of response. I can tell you guys that any card that I could get replaced while I was there, I did. Everything else was out of my control. I wish you all the best of luck in the future, and I know it's a really shitty situation.

It's been a good run and I had a blast helping you guys out and being a part of this community. I'll still be around, but now just as me, not as a BFG employee.

I thank you guys for the support in the past, and again wish that I can continue to be a part of your community without any hard feelings...

 

[night_2004]

So what happens to people that now no longer have warranties on stuff they purchased from them? I got a GTX 275 from them less than a year ago and now it has no warranty? Complete bullshit, I want my money back.

 

[Spare-Flair]

So what happens to people that now no longer have warranties on stuff they purchased from them? I got a GTX 275 from them less than a year ago and now it has no warranty? Complete bullshit, I want my money back.

Exactly. The company is liquidating. There are no more warranties. Judging by the BFG RMA thread, the last few went out a month or two ago and the recent ones have all been returned as is.

There's not much else a company can do when it goes out of business. I think Nvidia is mostly to blame for this than BFG.

The customer has little recourse. In case of liquidation/recievership/bankruptcy, the customer has the least likely chance of recovery.

 

[night_2004]

Yeah, but for us little guys is their any recourse for us? Charge back? Return to Best Buy? Something?

 

[jeremyshaw]

Yeah, but for us little guys is their any recourse for us? Charge back? Return to Best Buy? Something?

Charge back?
If your CC suports it.

Return to Best Buy?
If possible (if you want to - I'm not going to question why/not).

 

[Jesus_Faction]

the first aftermarket gfx card I bought was a Ti4200 from BFG. It was a good card that eventually broke down and they replaced with a 6600gt

 

[Spare-Flair]

ATI exclusive partners Sapphire (PC Partner) and PowerColor wanted the flexibility of producing cards for both sides as a result of R520. However, they didn’t want to risk damaging their relationship with ATI, so they decided to quietly launch subsidiaries. Zotac is PC Partner’s subsidiary, while Zogis is underneath the JV Logic umbrella, which includes PowerColor.

I wonder if XFX has harmed their relationship with Nvidia? From what it sounded like when this all first started, it seemed like Nvidia was holding out on allocations to both XFX and BFG (unless they would accept to take on requisite quantities of lower tier cards and old stock) which precipitated all of this.

 

[night_2004]

Charge back?
If your CC suports it.

Return to Best Buy?
If possible (if you want to - I'm not going to question why/not).

There is no question about it. I am going to try and get my money back. This is complete bull that companies can just give up on their customers like this, bankruptcy laws be damned.

Here's to hoping my bank will support a charge back 7 months after a purchase . Best Buy has been surprisingly flexible previously but this one would take the cake if they did anything.

 

[Basinger]

Sad stuff, I liked BFG products.

 

[Yikes2000]

Yeah, but for us little guys is their any recourse for us? Charge back? Return to Best Buy? Something?

I also bought my BFG GTX260 video cards less than a year ago, charged them on my American Express card which has an "extended warranty" protection that extends manufacturer's warranty up to 1 year. It is structured more like an insurance policy, so I hope if my GTX260 dies within the first 5 years, then I could still make a claim for it.