Desktop PC Platform: Killed By Overclocking

DeathPrincess said:
Hes saying that because you got a 980 and 480s you're butchering children and did bad things to jewish people in the last world wide battle. Because theres no reason for computers beyond word and the web...
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Thanks for the clarification.:p
 
Enduring_Warrior said:
It all comes down to your e-penis. I agree with the guy regardless of who gets offended and reacts back at the article by insulting its writer.
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i agree with him on some level.

but i also agree with some of the comments in this thread.

He is NOT attacking overclockers or overclocking. The point he was making is the marketing departments got their hands on the overclocking terminology and began using it as a marketing tool to sell the same equipment at higher prices. This does get a bit annoying after a while. I get some of the stuff is manufactured under higher standards to get into the enthusiast lines, but sometimes the premium is worth it sometimes not so much. I think thats the heart of this article

i do agree he gets too "old man" after that point, because if someone wants to pay the premium more power to them, those who are still budget oriented overclockers know what is the best performance per dollar and go there.

the landscape has changed from our old 300a days (yeah i was there), but not necessarily for the worse, the same spirit lives on today...you just don't buy the easy overclock gear at a premium....everyone wins
 
1. The turbo button was actually a downclock button. The point was for it to slow down the computer so old games would play at their normal speed.

2. Intel has had always had a $1000 part as far back as I can remember. Definitely before the extreme edition. The extra money used to give you 200mhz extra, for people that really needed the power. The guy is upset that now the extra money gets you an unlocked part, two extra cores, and a higher clock speed? I see no logic.

3. Is he complaining because video cards are at different price points? I am sure we would all benefit if there were one range of video cards and they were all $400.

4. In order for overclocking to hurt the industry, people would actually have to do it. It is easy to lose track on a site like this, but we are talking an extremely small portion of even the enthusiast market. I know a lot of enthusiasts, PC gamers, and CS majors and still have problems finding one that overclocks their personal rig. It is not worth the time, money, hassle, or risk to most people. The only thing that has really changed in the industry is that there are more options and different marketing tactics. I think we all win compared to 1998.
 
Overclocking might not be a neccesity anymore but my i7 920 is running at 4Ghz (and that's just where I decided to stop) and I can see the difference in games. Even if I didn't see the difference in games, the fact that it's going .66Ghz faster than the$1000+ i7 975 just makes me feel warm inside.
 
He is mad because he wrote the article on Office for Windows 1.0 on his blazing fast i386DX 20MHz.
 
There's a difference between "enthusiast" and "overclocker". Sure, you can be both. But, there are some AMAZING budget overclocking deals out there, where you don't need the $300 overclocking RAM, $1000 CPU, etc...

The author is retarded. It's not all about the fastest PC out there. It's about getting the fastest PC you can afford. If it means getting a sub $100 CPU and making it as fast as a $500 CPU, or a $1000 CPU faster than anything that comes out stock in the next 2 years, so be it.
 
While the article is interesting, he's thinking that all overclockers are made of money. I'm sorry, but most overclockers aren't buying Extreme Edition anything. They are buying parts within their budget, then getting extra performance by overclocking them. I will not pay more than $350 for any single computer component.
 
It must be [H]ard for some people to understand, but the message is about the industry, not its members:

No, it's not the act of overclocking itself that threatens the survival of desktop computers as a platform; it's the overclocking market that's killing the industry. Manufacturer's have turned a hobby into a product, and then turned that product into their flagship model.
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At some point the computer industry went from asking consumers to pay more for the faster products, to paying more for products you might be able to make faster.
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The only thing is that there are good deals out there too. I mean look @ the core i7 920. I got mine stable to 4.2 and 4.4. running @ 4.2 for longevity and better temps and 4.4 didnt really make a whole lot of noticeable difference. There are boards out there which compete with the gigabyte ud-9 for a better price. Anandtech did an article recently on exactly this topic and didnt recommend the gigabyte because of the ridiculous price. In fact you can get an EVGA SR-2 dual socket 1366 board for $100 less than the gigabyte. That evga board is worth the price given its a dual socket and has almost everything the gigabyte has, i dunno about the dual bios chips though. The asus P6T7 (anandtech left out this board for some reason) also is a great board as well but it dosent have usb 3.0 or sata 6 gbps because it came out before all these other boards. With 7 Slots you can easily get a card for it. Also, SATA 6Gbps and usb 3.0 isnt so mature yet so its not any faster yet. I am sure it will be, but considering that intel light peak is in development usb 3.0 and sata 6gbps may be obsolete before it gets a chance if light peak comes out. The writer is a little off base and in this economy many companies know that people are being frugal and many people will refuse to spend ridiculous amounts of money for certain overclocking items. The companies who price themselves out have to be able to justify the price for such items or else i bet there doomed to failure. I mean can they afford to support those items if no one buys them?
 
jeverson said:
If you have only been building or overclocking PCs for less than 5 years... I don't think you can really appreciate where this guys article is coming from. Yeah, he may be suffering from a little "old school-itis" but I do think that he makes some good points.
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This ^^

I come from the old school of overclocking. Running a 486 on a 2.5 multiplier to gain some speed. Running cyrixII at a true 300Mhz took guts.. overclocking a 300a was a challenge on an FIC KA-6100, especially since I had to go through 10 cpus to find one that worked at 450Mhz without any volt mods.

My biggest accomplishment was taking a P3 650Mhz to over 1Ghz before Intel even had their 1Ghz chip for sale using blowholes with 80mm fans.

(Even [H] had an old article about blowholes well after I was overclocking my 300a, and I can remember calling them copycats.... lol)

Today I can buy a kick ass motherboard where all I need to do is push the overclock button, or run the overclock app. Too easy. Overclocking used to be about taking a 300$ setup, tweaking the hell out of it, and running faster than the rich kid with a 2000$ setup.
Now thanks to marketing, it has become buying a 300$ motherboard and 1000$ CPU and claiming that your are an uber overclocker.

Think of water cooling, used to be you had to spend weeks hunting the parts down and hoping nothing leaked, now you just go into Frys or CompUSA and buy a kit. Its a natural progression, hell the Case Manufacturers started selling lights and cases with blowholes after going to LAN parties and seeing what people did. I remember Alienware drooling over a few custom cases back in 2002 at a 300 person LAN.

Overclocking has become like car modifications, too many Acuras with fart cans and not enough Dodge Omnis running 11 sec 1/4 mile runs.
 
Saying overclocking is killing the platform is like saying Home Depot is killing home improvement.

Absolute. Fuckin'. Retard.
 
I think the whole OC market is getting lame, I mean c'mon $500 for an overclocking motherboard? whats the friggin point.

But hey, this i5 @ 4ghz was a helluva deal :D
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Stupid consumers, always trying to get the most out of what they paid for. We should be ashamed.
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Today, when you factor in the cost of overclocking (good motherboard, fast ram, TIME) there is no "getting the most out of what you paid for." What you get today is a huge markup for cherry picked parts that may or may not overclock well.

And here's another one, and a reason I don't think the article is worth snot: "consumers" don't overclock. They buy a beige box at BestBuy.

So who cares if the likes of corsair can sucker some nerds into buying overpriced ram? Good for Corsair. People who fap to benchmarks rather than actually using their machines deserve to get fleeced.
 
jandar said:
This ^^

Overclocking has become like car modifications, too many Acuras with fart cans and not enough Dodge Omnis running 11 sec 1/4 mile runs.
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Truth. And big wings. Don't forget the wings.

I look at the Rampage 3 and agree that it's a sweet looking board. But frack asus in the ass if I'm going to pay for that.
 
Some of us have lots of extra cash to burn on our hobbies... let it be having an overpriced super fast computer :D
 
OCgamer666 said:
Thats not true, the second you run any product beyond the MFRs specifications you are taking a risk. although that risk is not huge, it is still there. Even if the OC wasn't the problem you could be denied warranty coverage due to Overclocking activity.
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And why would you be denied a warranty claim unless there is physical damage?

That being said, I haven't killed one piece of hardware by overclocking since the socket-A days.. and I don't just do mild overclocks either.... unless you count anything less than systems under water or more extreme as mild.

And what about hadware that is marketed as being a good piece of hadware to overclock with? They come with "special" utilities straight from the MFG to help you overclock.

Most video card manufacturers also don't void a warranty because of aftermarket cooling solutions.
 
cyclone3d said:
Most video card manufacturers also don't void a warranty because of aftermarket cooling solutions.
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umm what?

You ever sent in a videocard for a warranty repair with an aftermarket cooler on it?

And i'm talking about one you installed yourself not something you bought with an aftermarket cooler installed by the OEM.
 
Plus every time you overclock, you are taking a risk with your hardware, however small it may be these days. If you can't afford to replace your hardware, and want to play it totally safe but still have the fastest stuff, go ahead and blow $2000.
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Every time you overclock, a kitten is born!
 
jandar said:
Overclocking has become like car modifications, too many Acuras with fart cans and not enough Dodge Omnis running 11 sec 1/4 mile runs.
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This is absolutely true. Even though I have my Phenom 9850 running at 3.0Ghz, I don't call myself an overclocker by any means. Bumping up the multiplier in bios doesn't exactly count as an overclocking experiment in my book. The stuff you said in your post, that's true overclocking experimentation.
 
The old man has some valid points but I think he is mixing up everything. Yeah there is a few companies out there trying to make big chunk of profit from this "OC approved" parts. That doesn't mean that is killing the desktop market.. They don't expect to sell too many of this parts so they have to put a premium to make a buck.. that's the way the business is.

now if you come across something like this

At one end, the desktop PC is being hit by the growing use of smartphones, netbooks and notebooks. At the other end, it’s being hit by a resurgence of interest in desktop virtualisation – putting virtual systems on a server, not real ones on or under users’ desks.
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They have more valid points and some numbers that can give you an idea of what can happen in the near future to the desktop market.
 
Makaveli@BETA said:
umm what?

You ever sent in a videocard for a warranty repair with an aftermarket cooler on it?

And i'm talking about one you installed yourself not something you bought with an aftermarket cooler installed by the OEM.
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Of course you don't send it in with an aftermarket cooler installed.

You put the stock cooler back on before you send it in.

It just means you have to actually be careful, do a good job, and keep the stock stuff stored away.

If they get a card back with scratched up stuff, stripped screw heads, etc.. of course they are not going to replace it.
 
i see plenty of people that have no clue about overclocking trying to do it, they dont understand anything and will add extra core voltage at a blink of an eye. also some of the temps people talk about are like 30C above what i consider normal.

i buy parts to overclock, i dont buy overclocked. like any trend that goes mainstream, the original idea gets bastardized in to something marketable. i never heard any overclocker refer to something as super overclocked. it is marketing gimmick to capture part of the main stream market. the rest of us really wont be effected, we buy normal hardware, practice good cooling and dont have to worry about killing our hardware.

in 15 years of overclocking the only damage that has come from it, has come from a screwdriver slip taking off the old style clip based heatsinks. you can bet 95% of every dead videocard has come from overheating. something a responsible OC'er would not let happen.



i do love how more then a handful of companies make OC mobo's now.
 
The true hobbyists are the ones that aren't going to buy the "quick", marketed overclocking solution. We're going to buy the cheaper one, that we can (or maybe not) overclock. There are no guarantees. You have to play with the cooling, sometimes making some custom cooling solution... Those of us that had to figure out how to cool a 486DX/33 to 66 MHz or the 300a to 464 (Turbo mode!)... Blowholes, the first homemade waterblocks, or in Steve's case a gutter for a duct to dual Celerons.
 
DeathPrincess said:
They are killing the speeding market! Probably, but yes enthusiast market is 0.1% of the market, as I remind that the 5970 isnt the wolrds best selling card...
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You don't have to have a lot of money to be an enthusiast. OCing is all bout making something faster, and taking hardware to the next level. Making slow hardware fast, or making fast hardware even faster. ;)

I think the author was missing the point all together. OCing is killing nothing, because all it will take is a change in a architecture and that's it.
 
Nothing in the article helps establishes the title topic. It's just another case of using a controversial title to reel in readers to an otherwise useless page of banner ads.
 
Still don't get the part about killing the PC hardware industry :confused:

Its not like everyone is now forced to by enthusiast's premium hardware. There still are and will always be parts across the range from budget to enthusiast, and users just buy whatever fits their budget or what they are willing to spend on, and everyone live happily ever after.
 
Guess I come from the old school of overclocking. My first overclock around 1984 was a 6Mhz IBM AT, that I replaced the crystal on it to overclock it to 9.1 Mhz (the fastest crystal I had lying around that worked was 18.2mhz & the clock ran at 1/2 the speed). I lucked out getting it on my desk at work (and keeping it) because it was a demo unit with a clear plastic cover so they couldn't legally sell it :)

I guess I should include my TRS-80 color computer from back in 1981 too. You could double the clock speed by setting a simple I/O port (from .9Mhz to 1.8Mhz), but it would scramble the video. When I had something that would take a while to calculate, i'd over clock it at the begining of the program and set the clock back to normal at the end.
 
i still buy the el'cheapo parts (like the celeron 300A, duron 600, t-bred-b Athlon xp, opteron 165, core 2 e6300, i7 920) and clock them through the roof. I always laughed at people who bought extreme editions, special overclocking ram at 3x the price,etc

I am sure there is a market segment for it. Now a days I can afford it. However, out of principle I wont buy into it..bang'4'buck 4 life
 
nutzo said:
Guess I come from the old school of overclocking. My first overclock around 1984 was a 6Mhz IBM AT, that I replaced the crystal on it to overclock it to 9.1 Mhz (the fastest crystal I had lying around that worked was 18.2mhz & the clock ran at 1/2 the speed). I lucked out getting it on my desk at work (and keeping it) because it was a demo unit with a clear plastic cover so they couldn't legally sell it :)

I guess I should include my TRS-80 color computer from back in 1981 too. You could double the clock speed by setting a simple I/O port (from .9Mhz to 1.8Mhz), but it would scramble the video. When I had something that would take a while to calculate, i'd over clock it at the begining of the program and set the clock back to normal at the end.
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props to you for been OC since forever (26 years? maybe more?). Now that we know that you are old school (more than the author of article) Do you think Desktop PC platform is being killed by Overclocking?
 
Before being swayed by the other opinions voiced here I should add my first impressions:

1. Overclocking can still be used to get more performance for the same investment.
2. One can frequently find an overpriced enthusiast market in almost any area, from Cars/Audio to Handbags/Shoes.
3. The overclocking for value, versus the "hole in wallet burning" enthusiast market are separate entities. You can buy into each as much as you want on any given build.

Someone can decide how to balance their funds to get the level of performance they want because of the choices provided. You can choose to try your luck and go budget and overclock for value, or show off your epenis with your $20k setup.

I do not see how choice in the marketplace can be a bad thing.
 
I can see what the author meant, but it isn't killing the platform. Lack of games and software that can utilize the hardware is what's killing it.

Though, I agree with the author that overclocking is about getting more for your money. Gone are the days of the Athlon Mobile XP's, and the unlocking of video card cores. Unlike today, where it seems that overclocking is for the super rich.
 
This is asinine. It's like saying that since I supercharged my Mustang, I'm killing the market for the GT500 from Ford. No, it's called I wanted the power but didn't want to pay a premium for it.

I haven't overclocked in several years, 2500+ to 3200+, but I wouldn't mind getting back into it. Not even sure what my PII 965 can do, but it's worth finding out.
 
Hornet said:
Still don't get the part about killing the PC hardware industry :confused:

Its not like everyone is now forced to by enthusiast's premium hardware. There still are and will always be parts across the range from budget to enthusiast, and users just buy whatever fits their budget or what they are willing to spend on, and everyone live happily ever after.
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I agree. I've always bought stuff at the best prices possible and tried to get the most performance out of it. The dollar figure has always been a huge factor for me. I think overclocking in the budget enthusiast sector is still alive and well. How many people have purchased an i7 920 and overclocked the living crap out of it??? (*raises hand*)

And I don't know what he's talking about as far as noticeable performance increases ... I mean, I kind of see what he's saying, but even though there are people wasting money for very little gain, I still doubt seriously that they are the majority.

I took a $200 quad core CPU with hyperthreading, a $60 air cooler and a couple of $10 fans and took the CPU from 2.6GHz to 4.0GHz.

If he doesn't think that's "bang for your buck" or true to these principles quoted in this very article:

"...overclocking desktop computer hardware was born from need, not packaged as a product."

There may be packaged computers and prebuilt systems with coolers and overclocks like this, but how many real enthusiasts (and population percentage overall) actually buy those systems? Besides, isn't it still about FIVE TIMES more fun to make your own for most of us?? Building my own monster rig inspired me to build rigs for small businesses, my wife, my sister, my mom, my dad, my cousins, my grandma, my mother-in-law, and a whole list of people that goes on and on and on. NONE of those systems were "packaged as a product." They were systems I carefully and thoughtfully made for people I care about. And you know what? I overclocked some of them just to give people a little bit of a performance boost.

"Now days I'm fortunate enough to afford top-end hardware, and so I no longer overclock out of need. With so many dual-, quad-, and hexa-core processors sold on the open market, it seems unnecessary to overclock for the sake of productivity. Overclocking has transformed itself from a tool to help people work faster, into a hobby for enthusiasts."

Ok, buddy, maybe YOU'RE rich, but for the rest of us who don't write professionally for a tech site, we STILL overclock out of need, or at least out of a desire for increased productivity. Overclocking, since I first started, has given me VERY noticeable improvements in gaming, and more importantly in my editing - Photoshop and the hi-definition video editing that I find myself doing more and more of lately. I enjoy it, and I won't say it's not fun, and at least partly a hobby for me (probably my main hobby), but I do it for actual work and productivity reasons as well, and I know a lot of you guys do it for the same reasons, or some other similar combination motives. This statement is mostly BS to me.

"At its inception, overclocking computer hardware was a tool for making the incapable into something more capable."

Again, I say that IT STILL IS. How many of you agree that you still overclock to make the incapable or less capable more capable??

"While there are people willing to buy these items, they often lose sight of the original purpose behind overclocking: making something slow become fast, and getting something more for no added cost."

Ok, I grant that there are a few people who don't have the time or don't want to make the effort to get the most for their money, or have ridiculous amounts of money to blow on overpriced stuff. But to say those people and manufacturers that cater to them are actually doing harm is so absolutely incredibly asinine, I can't even find words to express how utterly full of CRAP that sentiment is. He continues:

"The problem only gets worse, because now manufacturers have found ways to feed on this. "

And again, how is that bad??? The top end products that they actually make money on help the industry in more ways than one. For one, it funds and fuels and causes a drive to keep pushing the limits of what we can suck out of our hardware, and what can be designed on the top end. The R&D keeps the technology bus moving forward, and the money keeps the companies behind it afloat so they can afford to sell less margin stuff to the masses.

The second hugely important side effect is that often these top-end products make advancements that TRICKLE DOWN to midrange and budget components and continue to give consumers more for their money. Look at all the 780G motherboards that came out that gave people four memory slots, integrated graphics that didn't suck, room for expansion, all for slightly over half a benjamin ... This guy is just nuts if he thinks this is a bad thing!!

He also mentions that products are overhyped and often fail to perform, such as the new $1000 Intel 6 core. Uh, DUH. Since when hasn't this been the case in virtually any market with a big budget advertising program?? "This product will mow your lawn, clean your teeth, and bath your kids all at the same time for HALF the price!!" Blah, blah blah ... canned benchmarks and exaggerated advertising are always going to be annoying, but it's to be expected. Look at how successful almost ALL of Apple's products are, regardless of all the areas in which they functionally fall behind the competition, often while costing quite a bit more!

Maybe I wasn't doing this 20 years ago because I am not that old, but at least for as long as I can remember, the top end products always cost a pretty penny more for minimal gains simply because they were the best. Again, this is not new, and this is not detrimental to the market, or consumers, in my opinion.

I echo the statements and observations of many others here. What a waste of an article. He might make a couple of good points with a hint of merit, but overall it was a painful read and absolutely full of FAIL.
 
Oh Man ..... I loved my Abit BP6 .... I remember feeling like such a bad ass.

What's sad? I don't remember how long I had or or when I sold it or how much I got for it. I don't even remember what I paid for that rig. I do remember it was bad ass.
 
I don't understand the article. What was the point?

Was he pro or anti overclocking? Was he pro or anti spending money?

The latter can be easily argued. The heart of my rig is just over $4,000. Altogether, my rig is nearly $5,000. Could you have built a rig that came close to this performance, for less? No. Could you have spent much more for the same level of performance? It would be pretty hard to justify.

For top of the line performance, with 3D Vision Surround, a 4GHz i7, SLI GTX 480's, etc, you really can't cut any corners. You need three 3D monitors. You need two video cards. I guess I could go i5 and save $100 on the motherboard, but the CPU was no cheaper than MicroCenter's LGA 1366 i7 920/930. I could have saved $550 on video cards with SLI GTX 460's, but they wouldn't have come anywhere close to the performance required for 3D Vision Surround at acceptable frame rates.

The only extra money I could have spent would be on an Extreme Edition processor (+$700), a third GTX 480 ($450), and an extra RAM kit (up to $200). I could also Raid 0 my SSD for $230. Yes, I'm only $1,600 from building a rig that can hardly be upgrade. $1,600 I have no interest in investing since overclocking is easy as hell and one SSD is already damn quick.

The point I'm making is I couldn't have had the same performance for less money and I don't feel like I'd need more performance for more money. Overclocking introduces enthusiasts to great value, but you've still got to spend a lot of money initially for gaming bliss. I don't think NVIDIA's hurting, selling me $450 GPUs instead of $550 factory OC'd GPUs. I don't think Intel's hurting, selling me $200 CPUs instead of $900 CPUs. And because they're not Apple, I think they're OK with that.
 
they article does not really have a point. seem to critique the high end "boutique" segment of the market. if it was not there, no one would make products for it. The reasonable and [H] among us will rarely venture there.

way more fun messing with the less expensive stuff:D
 
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