Ubi DRM: Their side of the story

[Shalafi]

Not going to happen. You're making up something that's not realistic. People said this EXACT same thing about Steam when it was launched.

Don't believe me. Google it.

When it was announced that Steam would be required to authenticate Half Life 2 people went ballistic.

So I'd have to say the same thing to you. Cool story, bro.

your reading comprehension is total FAIL

I said disconnected, i didn't say to what, also Steam offers an OFFLINE mode

Ubishit wants you to stay connected to it while you're playing otherwise you can't save at all, there's NO offline mode

 

[WabeWalker]

The problem is that Ubisoft is basically cutting out a market segment by doing this. What if I am travelling and don't have internet access but want to play games on my laptop? Granted not a lot of people will be effected directly by this, it's just stupid that Ubisoft is basically turning their backs on the people this does effect.

Congratulations, you've named the one time when you're not going to be able to play your game - if you're gaming on a laptop, and happen to be at the airport or the bus station.

Seriously though: how many gamers are actually going to be deeply affected by this?

If I were to judge based on the people here, then this will be a non-issue, since a huge percentage of the people here seem to be gaming 24 hours a day - meaning of course that they must be living at home with their parents and don't have jobs?

 

[WabeWalker]

your reading comprehension is total FAIL

I said disconnected, i didn't say to what, also Steam offers an OFFLINE mode

Ubishit wants you to stay connected to it while you're playing otherwise you can't save at all, there's NO offline mode

It doesn't matter.

What you're predicting still isn't going to happen. Sorry, but it's not. For God's sake, if the tiny company that produced Rise Of Flight can pull this off, then Ubisoft can too.

I'm willing to be money that when I buy this game next month I will NEVER get booted off. You're making something up, because you're pissed off that Ubisoft is actually fighting back.

And again, methinks thou doth protest too much.

 

[Coppenroll]

Congratulations, you've named the one time when you're not going to be able to play your game - if you're gaming on a laptop, and happen to be at the airport or the bus station.

Seriously though: how many gamers are actually going to be deeply affected by this?

If I were to judge based on the people here, then this will be a non-issue, since a huge percentage of the people here seem to be gaming 24 hours a day - meaning of course that they must be living at home with their parents and don't have jobs?

Like I said "not a lot of people will be effected directly by this". It's just unfortunate that Ubisoft is turning their backs on the people that it does effect.

(Is there an echo in the building?...)

 

[WabeWalker]

snip

Well, you can be sarcastic about this, if you want to. And yet I was shocked... just completely shocked... at how many people, right here, posted about their thoughts and opinions of Mass Effect 2 before the game had even been released to market.

It was quite frankly ludicrous.

Okay, you know what that means - it means that a significant percentage of the people posting in THIS VERY THREAD are pirates. That's what it means. So the people making the biggest stink about this... yeah....

 

[Shalafi]

Well, you can be sarcastic about this, if you want to. And yet I was shocked... just completely shocked... at how many people, right here, posted about their thoughts and opinions of Mass Effect 2 before the game had even been released to market.

It was quite frankly ludicrous.

Okay, you know what that means - it means that a significant percentage of the people posting in THIS VERY THREAD are pirates. That's what it means. So the people making the biggest stink about this... yeah....

why do you bother posting here if we're a forum full of pirates?

 

[radioactivez0r]

I agree with everything you've written.

If you're a gamer, these days, then it means that you have to be online. We all use e-mail, and internet forums (such as this one), and we all need driver support and patch support, and most of us use Steam, and even more of us are online playing online games such as WOW and COD.

You and Dion make this same argument, for some reason. Did you pay for that email up front? Did you pay a one-time fee to use these forums? No, they are free. Buying a game and then having it disabled - regardless of how likely or plausible that is - through no fault of your own is just asinine.

If I were to judge based on the people here, then this will be a non-issue, since a huge percentage of the people here seem to be gaming 24 hours a day - meaning of course that they must be living at home with their parents and don't have jobs?

Says the guy who posted half a dozen times in a 20 minute span? As far as trolls go, you're certainly eloquent.

 

[pigwalk]

t? Steam already has close to 0 piracy, so what is Ubisoft aiming for?

I'm trying to find the cracked copy of Half Life 2 I bought in South America, lol at zero piracy on Steam, it gets cracked just like anyone else.

Even had a cracked CS:S that we ran at the LAN i worked at. If I find I'll post pics ha!

 

[veritas7]

I don't have internet in my apartment.

I download my games from my campus internet on my laptop with Steam, then back them up and install them on my desktop.

This is why I don't and won't buy Ubisoft. I need offline. I understand Valve - they're now too big to fail, and they've promised to enable all your games to work if Steam ever went down permanently. I don't trust Ubisoft to do the same.

If anything... buy it... then apply your own "special sauce" to the game's file then so you don't have to go through their hoops - you bought it, you own it, imo.

 

[ann0yanc3]

guess i'll wait for this game to show up in the bargain bin. great game on xbox 360, but not worth $60 with this DRM.

 

[MrGuvernment]

complete joke. so if their servers are down, u cant play a game that u payed them for? thanks for saving me some money Ubishit

LawSuit? i mean if they are supposed to provide a product but fail to do so and you paid your money, could that not classify as a lawsuit to be had?

How will I know what I'll lose?
"You'll have to wait for the reviews, and to hear what your peers are saying."

now that is bullshit THEY should be responsible for telling customers that they could possibly lose out on, not wait and hope they get the one that leaves them where they left off.

Ubisoft has been banned from my list for sure now, and my uncle loves the Silent Hunter series, but he wont anymore!, or i will just patch it, stupid UbiSoft, such arrogant comments.

 

[Oldie]

LawSuit? i mean if they are supposed to provide a product but fail to do so and you paid your money, could that not classify as a lawsuit to be had?

As long as they make you aware of the requirements before hand, you could hardly sue them.

For those saying only pirates will hate this, well I'll hate this, and I could hardly be called a pirate:

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197963790687/games

Laptops aside, I still know a lot of people who live in areas where they're limited to dial-up or satellite. While I'm hopeful the traffic will be light to keep the session authenticated, those users are probably going to be screwed.

 

[Derangel]

As long as they make you aware of the requirements before hand, you could hardly sue them.

For those saying only pirates will hate this, well I'll hate this, and I could hardly be called a pirate:

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197963790687/games

Laptops aside, I still know a lot of people who live in areas where they're limited to dial-up or satellite. While I'm hopeful the traffic will be light to keep the session authenticated, those users are probably going to be screwed.

I believe Ubi said somewhere that dial-up users shouldn't have a problem as its going to be pretty low bandwidth requirements.

 

[Oldie]

I believe Ubi said somewhere that dial-up users shouldn't have a problem as its going to be pretty low bandwidth requirements.

Right, but having to have your phone line tied up the whole time you're playing? Maybe you have v.92 support, but still. I can imagine a TON of lost saves.

 

[wrangler]

OK Oldie, I will only refer to it from now on as "special sauce".

 

[Derangel]

Right, but having to have your phone line tied up the whole time you're playing? Maybe you have v.92 support, but still. I can imagine a TON of lost saves.

Yeah. The cable lines in my apartment are pretty old and worn so I get a pretty iffy connection at times. Speeds are fine usually, but my connection likes to randomly go out.

 

[Oldie]

Guys, can we ever have a thread about DRM where people don't go around right and left breaking the forum rules?

(18) You will not discuss, suggest, engage, or encourage any ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES.

Whether you agree with it or not, right now bypassing DRM is not legal thanks to the DMCA, so you can't discuss it here. You can discuss it's effects all you like, but admitting that you have or intend to remove DRM is not allowed.

We really don't want to have to ban/warn people for something so stupid. Any more mentions of it in this thread will earn an infraction.

 

[Derangel]

quote removed

If you can wait I'd be willing to bet the game will be at least $20 by the end of the year, if not less.

 

[bpmurrGT]

This whole DRM thing reminds me of gun laws. Making it really hard for the guys who do the right thing. While the criminals don't give a shit and will get their stuff no matter what.

Do these publisher think if they don't use any DRM nobody is going to buy the game? Sure people are going to pirate but I bet more people actually buy it.

 

[Morphy]

Okay, you know what that means - it means that a significant percentage of the people posting in THIS VERY THREAD are pirates. That's what it means. So the people making the biggest stink about this... yeah....

Anyone making a big stink about this would be potential buying customers because they will have to live with the DRM...Pirates Don't! Pirates just look at this, laugh and say "pfft...so what?" Pirates could care less, they only care to know when the game appears on their favorite torrent site. Meanwhile the only people getting treated like pirates are legitimate customers.

For strictly single player games, I don't mind online authentication as long as it's only done during installation and be done with it. Anything more than that is only acceptable for multiplayer gaming.

 

[wrangler]

If you can wait I'd be willing to bet the game will be at least $20 by the end of the year, if not less.

Indeed. However, the question of the total experience remains unsolved. Even for $20, the pirates are ahead.

Look. I kind of agree with the guy that said we all have constant internet connections so why bitch. If I buy this game I will probably never be affected by this. But to know that pirate got it for free and didn't have to worry about a damn thing, sticks in my craw. I really appreciate PC gaming and don't like consoles at all so I try my best to support the people who develop the games. To the guy who suggested that by buying it I am supporting DRM I say, well, OK. I know if I was making games and I saw all those people stealing from me, I would do anything and everything to stop it. Including burning down the house with me in it. Which is what it seems like they are doing.

In the end though, it is just a damn computer game. Not worth more discussion than what is happening in the world right now.

 

[polonyc2]

what makes Ubisoft's DRM the worst one yet is the fact that they have no intention of ever removing it completely or even softening it...with all other game DRM's they are almost ALWAYS removed after a short period of time, usually within a year either through revoke tools or a patch

with Ubisoft 3 years from now the same DRM will still apply to Assassin's Creed 2 and all other Ubisoft games...I actually don't mind most DRM's because of the fact that they are removed at some time

http://activate.ea.com/deauthorize/gamesList.html

https://support.securom.com/pop_titles.html

but Ubisoft's policy sucks completely

 

[Shalafi]

As long as they make you aware of the requirements before hand, you could hardly sue them.

For those saying only pirates will hate this, well I'll hate this, and I could hardly be called a pirate:

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197963790687/games

Laptops aside, I still know a lot of people who live in areas where they're limited to dial-up or satellite. While I'm hopeful the traffic will be light to keep the session authenticated, those users are probably going to be screwed.

I hear you on the connection stuff

my ex gf didn't even have internet at her house so I was forced to play my Steam games in Offline mode

here's my Steam profile

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197996324714/games

I have quite a few games on DVD too, like Oblivion, The Witcher, and I actually bought Elder Scrolls Morrowwind twice, one a $30 pack at Best Buy then bought it for $5 to bind it to my Steam account.

See my Bioshock 2 play time? it took me 7 hours to get thru the game, and I played like a half hour to an hour of multiplayer.

I play CS Source a lot

but honestly, I'm glad Steam has an Offline mode, cause that Ubisoft stuff will not work with me. i don't want to have to connect to their servers just to save my game.

Bioshock 2 is that way too unfortunately, but I didn't know that before I bought it

 

[Oldie]

i don't want to have to connect to their servers just to save my game.

Bioshock 2 is that way too unfortunately, but I didn't know that before I bought it

Actually, you can create a local profile for GFWL and save offline. What ubisoft is proposing is unique to the best of my knowledge. I don't know of any other DRM that requires a constant connection.

 

[Morphy]

correct...only points and achievements won't be saved in offline mode but saving games isn't a problem.

 

[Shalafi]

i didn't install GFWL my first time installing Bioshock 2, and there was no save option

 

[Derangel]

Anyone making a big stink about this would be potential buying customers because they will have to live with the DRM...Pirates Don't! Pirates just look at this, laugh and say "pfft...so what?" Pirates could care less, they only care to know when the game appears on their favorite torrent site. Meanwhile the only people getting treated like pirates are legitimate customers.

For strictly single player games, I don't mind online authentication as long as it's only done during installation and be done with it. Anything more than that is only acceptable for multiplayer gaming.

I agree 100%. I don't mind a single authentication upon install, as long as there is an easy and viable way to get activations back that doesn't involve calling the publisher and dealing with likely moronic support people. I need to call EA to get my activations back on a couple games and the first Mass Effect DLC one of these days.

 

[WabeWalker]

Indeed. However, the question of the total experience remains unsolved. Even for $20, the pirates are ahead.

Look. I kind of agree with the guy that said we all have constant internet connections so why bitch. If I buy this game I will probably never be affected by this. But to know that pirate got it for free and didn't have to worry about a damn thing, sticks in my craw. I really appreciate PC gaming and don't like consoles at all so I try my best to support the people who develop the games. To the guy who suggested that by buying it I am supporting DRM I say, well, OK. I know if I was making games and I saw all those people stealing from me, I would do anything and everything to stop it. Including burning down the house with me in it. Which is what it seems like they are doing.

In the end though, it is just a damn computer game. Not worth more discussion than what is happening in the world right now.

I don't believe that Ubisoft is burning down the house by doing this at all - quite to the contrary, it seems to me that they're fighting back, and are throwing buckets of water onto a house that's already burning.

It's been mentioned in this thread that there are 2 groups of people who will be affected by this.

1) Those gaming on laptops who are 'on the road' and want to play the game while they're transient (i.e. when they're actually in transit, and not at the hotel - most hotels have internet these days).

2) Those with dial-up connections, or those in areas where internet connections are unreliable at best. I'm guessing that there aren't very many of these people around however. How can you be a PC gamer these days without an internet connection? I'm sure that there are people like that around, but I'm guessing that there aren't a whole lot of them around. Nevertheless, they should be acknowledged for whatever it's worth.

Apart from those two groups, the rest of us do have internet connections. The notion that we're somehow not going to be able to connect to the Ubisoft website to play AC 2 is just ridiculous - that's just not going to happen. That same argument was advanced when Steam was released - people said, oh but what if Steam goes down, I won't be able to play any of my games! Nope, the only thing that people had to fear in that situation was fear itself.

The thing that people need to know about this DRM is that it's clean, and that it's much more effective than the ridiculous Securom.

The guys at Ubisoft aren't stupid - they've made the acknowledged that no system is ever completely hack proof. But - and it's a big but - they've also said that they're pretty happy with what they've come up with. I'm guessing that it's an authentication check at the end of every single level. Your game will flash the Ubisoft website and if your copy is legit, then you're on your way.

This is going to make it pretty tough for the pirates to deal with - much tougher.

Really, if you don't belong to one of the two groups mentioned above, and if you have an internet connection, then you've nothing to complain about here. The only people who have real reason to complain are the people who wanted this game for free - yeah, they've got something to complain about alright. No question about it.

 

[Derangel]

I don't believe that Ubisoft is burning down the house by doing this at all - quite to the contrary, it seems to me that they're fighting back, and are throwing buckets of water onto a house that's already burning.

It's been mentioned in this thread that there are 2 groups of people who will be affected by this.

1) Those gaming on laptops who are 'on the road' and want to play the game while they're transient (i.e. when they're actually in transit, and not at the hotel - most hotels have internet these days).

2) Those with dial-up connections, or those in areas where internet connections are unreliable at best. I'm guessing that there aren't very many of these people around however. How can you be a PC gamer these days without an internet connection? I'm sure that there are people like that around, but I'm guessing that there aren't a whole lot of them around. Nevertheless, they should be acknowledged for whatever it's worth.

Apart from those two groups, the rest of us do have internet connections. The notion that we're somehow not going to be able to connect to the Ubisoft website to play AC 2 is just ridiculous - that's just not going to happen. That same argument was advanced when Steam was released - people said, oh but what if Steam goes down, I won't be able to play any of my games! Nope, the only thing that people had to fear in that situation was fear itself.

The thing that people need to know about this DRM is that it's clean, and that it's much more effective than the ridiculous Securom.

The guys at Ubisoft aren't stupid - they've made the acknowledged that no system is ever completely hack proof. But - and it's a big but - they've also said that they're pretty happy with what they've come up with. I'm guessing that it's an authentication check at the end of every single level. Your game will flash the Ubisoft website and if your copy is legit, then you're on your way.

This is going to make it pretty tough for the pirates to deal with - much tougher.

Really, if you don't belong to one of the two groups mentioned above, and if you have an internet connection, then you've nothing to complain about here. The only people who have real reason to complain are the people who wanted this game for free - yeah, they've got something to complain about alright. No question about it.

And what about those of us with unstable connections?

What you don't seem to get is that piracy is a bullshit excuse. Its the same bullshit as groups using the slogan "for the children" to invade your privacy and your rights. Its a bullshit excuse that sheep get behind and if you go against it you are automatically labeled as a supporter of something wrong/illegal. If it wasn't piracy Ubi would use some other bullshit excuse.

 

[Shalafi]

Why bother arguing with him, he's going to just echo everything he's said before, he won't change his mind or opinion, he's already convinced that if you complain about DRM that you're a pirate, and trying to rationalize with him is like talking to a wall.

Irrationality is why organizations like the MPAA and RIAA exist and why companies like Ubisoft do dumb shit like this that won't stop any piracy at all, it will put a crimp into secondhand sales, but so what, who's gonna wanna buy these games? Certainly not the informed customer

 

[Derangel]

Why bother arguing with him, he's going to just echo everything he's said before, he won't change his mind or opinion, he's already convinced that if you complain about DRM that you're a pirate, and trying to rationalize with him is like talking to a wall.

Irrationality is why organizations like the MPAA and RIAA exist and why companies like Ubisoft do dumb shit like this that won't stop any piracy at all, it will put a crimp into secondhand sales, but so what, who's gonna wanna buy these games? Certainly not the informed customer

Yeah. There are more than enough games coming out and in my backlog that I don't need to buy crap from companies like Ubisoft and Take-Two when they don't care enough to give their PC users a good experience. Way I look at is if I really want to play AC2 I'll borrow one of my brother's 360s and rent it. Or wait for them to buy it used. Either way will screw Ubi over.

 

[Åndhrimnir]

PC gaming is dying because of retarded publishers like Ubisoft.

No, massive piracy is killing PC gaming. Ubisoft is reacting to it - I still don't approve, however. I think more DRM simply angers people more and fuels piracy.

If the company were to instead embrace gamers, not alienate them (perhaps by removing all DRM and asking PC gamers nicely to not take advantage of this so that they can continue doing it) then people would be more inclined to support them by buying their products.

 

[Derangel]

No, massive piracy is killing PC gaming. Ubisoft is reacting to it - I still don't approve, however. I think more DRM simply angers people more and fuels piracy.

If the company were to instead embrace gamers, not alienate them (perhaps by removing all DRM and asking PC gamers nicely to not take advantage of this so that they can continue doing it) then people would be more inclined to support them by buying their products.

EA seems to have the right idea at the moment, or at least close to it. Provide a product that gamers want to buy and provide incentives for them to buy it. After that support the game with extra content that even the pirates can buy, if they so wish.

 

[polonyc2]

I need to call EA to get my activations back on a couple games and the first Mass Effect DLC one of these days.

all the EA games deauth tools are right in front of you...

http://activate.ea.com/deauthorize/gamesList.html

 

[Derangel]

all the EA games deauth tools are right in front of you...

http://activate.ea.com/deauthorize/gamesList.html

The tools can only deauthorize one system and one activation at a time. They don't work for already used activations or for DLC.

 

[bmwphysics]

Really, if you don't belong to one of the two groups mentioned above, and if you have an internet connection, then you've nothing to complain about here. The only people who have real reason to complain are the people who wanted this game for free - yeah, they've got something to complain about alright. No question about it.

Well Ubisoft won't be getting my business as I think that requiring an internet connection just to save your game is the worst idea. I have no objections to accessing a connection when you install but every level/save? Get real! What if my Comcast internet is down due to weather or other circumstances? Maybe my router goes out and I still want to game? Screw that, this is just going to make it harder for paying customers. The pirates will have it easier than the ones who actually pay for the game as they will find some workaround, it might just take longer than some.


I think the best recipe for developers & publishers is to stop this non sense of trying to "beat" hackers and start making worthwhile games - its been shown in the past with game sales if you make a quality game even the pirates will go buy it. Incentives such as downloadable content (extra levels etc) to paying customers just sweetens the deal.

Either way, judging by your previous posts, you're just going to call me a pirate for protesting this so

 

[Udgnim]

I think the best recipe for developers & publishers is to stop this non sense of trying to "beat" hackers and start making worthwhile games - its been shown in the past with game sales if you make a quality game even the pirates will go buy it. Incentives such as downloadable content (extra levels etc) to paying customers just sweetens the deal.

enough non-pirates will buy a great quality game. pirates will still pirate.

example being CoD 4: Modern Warfare. one of the top pirated games in 2008 (think this is the correct year). result is no dedicated server support in Modern Warfare 2.

 

[WabeWalker]

It's also kind of interesting that nobody in this thread has thought to mention that the first Assassin's Creed game for the PC, during its first month, sold an estimated 40,000 copies, but was pirated by roughly 700,000 people during the same time period.

Ubisoft was utterly raped by the so-called pirates.

I don't even know why I'm calling these people pirates. They're really just ordinary people, who seem to have this belief that software is free. Some of you guys are saying that you won't... ahem... 'support' Ubisoft because of this. Seriously, do you think they even care? They lost so much money from NOT being aggressive that your protest isn't going to amount to a hill of beans for them.

This solution of Ubisoft's sounds pretty solid to me. What they're obviously trying to do here is to make certain that AC 2 doesn't get pirated straight out of the gate the way the first game was - and an online authentication check at the end of every level is likely going to get the job done there.

Seriously, I LOVE this. Finally, a company is stepping up and hitting back with all its might. It looks like I'm finally going to be playing a game on day one before the pirates do. Didn't happen with Dragon Age. Didn't happen with Mass Effect 2. Didn't happen with Bioshock 2.

Why would any gamer NOT love this.

Utterly ridiculous.

 

[WabeWalker]

Well Ubisoft won't be getting my business as I think that requiring an internet connection just to save your game is the worst idea. I have no objections to accessing a connection when you install but every level/save? Get real! What if my Comcast internet is down due to weather or other circumstances? Maybe my router goes out and I still want to game? Screw that, this is just going to make it harder for paying customers. The pirates will have it easier than the ones who actually pay for the game as they will find some workaround, it might just take longer than some.


I think the best recipe for developers & publishers is to stop this non sense of trying to "beat" hackers and start making worthwhile games - its been shown in the past with game sales if you make a quality game even the pirates will go buy it. Incentives such as downloadable content (extra levels etc) to paying customers just sweetens the deal.

Either way, judging by your previous posts, you're just going to call me a pirate for protesting this so

What if your internet craps out on you?

Well then, I guess you wouldn't be able to play Assassin's Creed 2 - nor would you be able to access Steam, or send e-mails, or download patches, or surf the net, or play online games such as WOW or COD, or access services such as Microsoft Live for the Xbox, or even come onto this forum and write posts about your internet crapping out on you.

Maybe what you ought to do is sign up for a better internet service then, because your present service sounds like crap to me. So really, instead of blaming Ubisoft for all your internet woes, maybe what you ought to do instead is phone up your local internet provider and find out why you can't access the internet?

 

[Q-BZ]

What if your internet craps out on you?

Well then, I guess you wouldn't be able to play Assassin's Creed 2 - nor would you be able to access Steam, or send e-mails, or download patches, or surf the net, or play online games such as WOW or COD, or access services such as Microsoft Live for the Xbox, or even come onto this forum and write posts about your internet crapping out on you.

Maybe what you ought to do is sign up for a better internet service then, because your present service sounds like crap to me. So really, instead of blaming Ubisoft for all your internet woes, maybe what you ought to do instead is phone up your local internet provider and find out why you can't access the internet?

I'm sorry Wabe but you're really be an apologist for something that's unacceptable and a bunch of us have gone in circles with you in 3-4 threads now over this very carefully and specifically and you just don't get it.

I really don't know what else to say or how to say it. I can't believe that people have written this out clearly and coherently enough for you.