Windows 7 Under Fire for ‘Treacherous Computing’

lol Win7 will probably experience the best launch out of any MS OS too... People seem to forget all-too-quickly how problem plagued other launches have been (which really make Vista's issues seem minor at best). Frankly MS just sat on XP for far too long (and took it in the chin as far as Vista PR), it's distorted a lot of mainstream views beyond repair.
 
heatlesssun said:
That Microsoft Reality Distortion Field must be busted and is working only on him and a few others in reverse.:p
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lol, that's what happens when you put the zero-point energy field manipulator in the reality distortion filed. It also turns blue...
 
..and this is EXACTLY how Vista's original public perception as a failure began.
 
AVT said:
..and this is EXACTLY how Vista's original public perception as a failure began.
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Huh? Vista wasn't NEARLY as well recieved this early on as 7. 7 is out, its ALREADY surpassed the total desktop install base of Linux before even launching.

No this ain't your father's Vista!
 
heatlesssun said:
The world has voted. People simply don't WANT Linux on the desktop. So now the FSF is telling us that users don't know what's best for them? This is ultra liberal crap.

Looking forward Windows 7 kicking ass and taking no prisoners.
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I actually prefer linux on the desktop. Where it falls short has nothing to do with the OS itself but a complete lack of support from developers. I do digital photography and I game. While applications like gimp are great, esp. considering they are free, I can't give up my CS4 master collection and lightroom 2 for my work flow. Native gaming in Linux has great performance, but unfortunately the only major developer who even bothers is ID.

Windows 7 is a great OS, but I still would prefer Linux almost any other day if there was native support from developers for the apps I use most.
 
heatlesssun said:
The world has voted. People simply don't WANT Linux on the desktop. So now the FSF is telling us that users don't know what's best for them? This is ultra liberal crap.

Looking forward Windows 7 kicking ass and taking no prisoners.
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Sorry, but with all the DRM, I'll pass. Sticking with XP x64 for life... or until operating systems become something we can control again. I hope DX11 fails just like DX10 did, and I hope Windows 7 dies quickly, just like Vista.

Software companies keep supporting XP x64 please!
 
earnolmartin said:
Sorry, but with all the DRM, I'll pass. Sticking with XP x64 for life... or until operating systems become something we can control again. I hope DX11 fails just like DX10 did, and I hope Windows 7 dies quickly, just like Vista.

Software companies keep supporting XP x64 please!
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What DRM?
 
Andrmgic said:
I like Linux and I certainly believe that it has its uses.. it powers my Ion based media center that is hooked to my television and does a great job with it. However, I've had more small issues with that box in the 2-3 months that I've had it than I have with my Windows 7 machine all year.
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That's how I feel as well. Linux has all kinds of annoying quirks. Every now and then I experiment with using Linux as my primary desktop OS. I always end up tossing it out. And I'm experienced enough to fix the problems I run into myself. Imagine being Joe Average and not being able to open up a terminal and fix every problem as it arises. You'd get even more frustrated.
 
xveganx said:
I actually prefer linux on the desktop. Where it falls short has nothing to do with the OS itself but a complete lack of support from developers. I do digital photography and I game. While applications like gimp are great, esp. considering they are free, I can't give up my CS4 master collection and lightroom 2 for my work flow. Native gaming in Linux has great performance, but unfortunately the only major developer who even bothers is ID.

Windows 7 is a great OS, but I still would prefer Linux almost any other day if there was native support from developers for the apps I use most.
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And this is reasonable. You prefer Linux, more power to you. Just understand that people who prefer Windows have legitimate reasons as well and aren't simply sheep. I spent a lot of time with desktop Linux ten years ago because I thought it was the future on servers AND desktops. That desktop thing flopped.

There's simply too much technology out there to be concerned about from my standpoint to worry about a desktop OS that really is NEVER going much anywhere, not for the forseable future. Maybe one day. But people have been talking about the year of desktop Linux for 10 years and the result has been a resounding flop.

When your motto becomes "Maybe next year" its time to give it a rest.
 
I feel like that website copy/pasted that list from years' past. None of it is Win7 specific and none of it is new or original complaints.

xveganx said:
. Native gaming in Linux has great performance, but unfortunately the only major developer who even bothers is ID.
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Which is a shame since Carmack has quite definitively stated that he isn't interested in being a big licensed engine developer and the popularity of the Quake 3 engine was somewhat a fluke, since he only gave development studios four hours of support.
 
I have been using 7 full time since the official Beta and haven't noticed even on instance of DRM...
 
earnolmartin said:
http://boingboing.net/2009/02/17/windows-7-drm-begins.html

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/02/oh-the-humanity-windows-7s-draconian-drm.ars

Just because you don't see it yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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Yes there's DRM in Windows. So? That same DRM give me the ability to rip the shit of it as well. Where's the one click rip a Blu Ray solution in Linux?

The argument is totally deceptive. Linux is a joke when it comes to dealing with real world media. DRM is out there. Get over it. The only OS that suffers from DRM is Linux cause you can do shit without hacking and wacking and then using a Windows machine to break the DRM.


The DRM is so beyond lame I just give up. DRM that prevents me from not doing a damn thing except watching content that I can't on Linux. Yeah, a real freeking problem.:rolleyes:
 
NKDietrich said:
You just linked to an article about some supposed DRM, and then another article that exposed the first article for the bullshit it is.

Really? Did you just do that?
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What? Read the article?!?! Are you NUTS? He has no time for that, he has to join the jihad against Microsoft and purge the world of their evils!!! :eek:
 
earnolmartin said:
http://boingboing.net/2009/02/17/windows-7-drm-begins.html

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/02/oh-the-humanity-windows-7s-draconian-drm.ars

Just because you don't see it yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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Did you read those articles? Little of the photoshop example (or more probably NONE of it) had to do with DRM.
And the second article makes a darn good point...
WHO CARES?!

If you one of the 99% of people who use your software in a reasonable manner, you will NEVER notice DRM. Especially now that most music downloading services offer DRM-less options.
When have YOU been hampered by DRM?
 
Modred189 said:
Did you read those articles? Little of the photoshop example (or more probably NONE of it) had to do with DRM.
And the second article makes a darn good point...
WHO CARES?!

If you one of the 99% of people who use your software in a reasonable manner, you will NEVER notice DRM. Especially now that most music downloading services offer DRM-less options.
When have YOU been hampered by DRM?
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To note, I can name one, MUCH more egregious example of draconian DRM...
DVDs. I can make backups of EVERY one of my vinyl records, cassette tapes, VHS tapes, CDs and even (for goodness' sake) minidisks, but I cannot legally backup my DVD collection? How does this make any sense!?
 
Those people aren't wrong with what they're saying. Though, Windows 7 certainly isn't there yet. Windows 7 is just small a baby step towards becoming like the iPhone.

What Microsoft and Apple want is to have control over applications users use on their OS's. Take a look at the iPhone, and that's what they want. Apple controls what does or doesn't get released on the App Store. Therefore, it's the best form of DRM. On the other hand, there's lots of iPhones that are jail broken, and I doubt Apple can keep doing this for very long.

Windows 7 is just trying to soften everyone at DRM. Many people here will disagree, but many of those people are just here to spread the Windows 7 hype.

Microsoft wants what Apple has with their iPhone. They just want it on their desktop OS.
 
From http://windows7sins.org/ and my take on the 7.

1. Poisoning education: Today, most children whose education involves computers are being taught to use one company's product: Microsoft's. Microsoft spends large sums on lobbyists and marketing to corrupt educational departments. An education using the power of computers should be a means to freedom and empowerment, not an avenue for one corporation to instill its monopoly.
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I'm sorry, this is just not how it works. School districts get bids from/go directly to the PC manufacturers like Dell and HP - Microsoft isn't really involved in the process.

2. Invading privacy: Microsoft uses software with backward names like Windows Genuine Advantage to inspect the contents of users' hard drives. The licensing agreement users are required to accept before using Windows warns that Microsoft claims the right to do this without warning.
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Microsoft has never forced me to install WGA or any update for that matter.

3. Monopoly behavior: Nearly every computer purchased has Windows pre-installed -- but not by choice. Microsoft dictates requirements to hardware vendors, who will not offer PCs without Windows installed on them, despite many people asking for them. Even computers available with other operating systems like GNU/Linux pre-installed often had Windows on them first.
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Yeah, because if there is one thing we know it's that the general public LOVES Linux and is really bummed they can't get it pre-installed. Oh wait...

4. Lock-in: Microsoft regularly attempts to force updates on its users, by removing support for older versions of Windows and Office, and by inflating hardware requirements. For many people, this means having to throw away working computers just because they don't meet the unnecessary requirements for the new Windows versions.
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Last I checked I can still use Office 2000 on my computers or use Windows 2000 on my computers. Besides, a company can't be expected to provide support for a product through all eternity.

5. Abusing standards: Microsoft has attempted to block free standardization of document formats, because standards like OpenDocument Format would threaten the control they have now over users via proprietary Word formats. They have engaged in underhanded behavior, including bribing officials, in an attempt to stop such efforts.
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I think this is the only one with any shred of truth in it.

6. Enforcing Digital Restrictions Management (DRM): With Windows Media Player, Microsoft works in collusion with the big media companies to build restrictions on copying and playing media into their operating system. For example, at the request of NBC, Microsoft was able to prevent Windows users from recording television shows that they have the legal right to record.
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Microsoft's choice: Make software support playing DRM files that many consumers will encounter or choose not to support it and be under a constant shit storm from users having problems. Hmm...

7. Threatening user security: Windows has a long history of security vulnerabilities, enabling the spread of viruses and allowing remote users to take over people's computers for use in spam-sending botnets. Because the software is secret, all users are dependent on Microsoft to fix these problems -- but Microsoft has its own security interests at heart, not those of its users.
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You mean bad people try to take advantage of the fact Windows is the most commonly used operating system? Shocking! And Microsoft does nothing to prevent this like including a malware scanning application, or having a security center that tells users they should get things like anti-virus.

They do? Damn.
 
ChairmanMiau said:
Microsoft fanbois everywhere...
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Maybe because some of us got TIRED of the lies from the Linux community. Year after year after year, Linux on the desktop was supposed to take over. Windows didn't have chance. It cost money, was proprietary, had too many security issues, on an on the Linux community went on. Now ten years ago this did make a lot of sense.

Then year after year Linux on the desktop simply languished. The Linux community kept telling us, don’t worry, next year. NEXT YEAR NEVER CAME!!!!!

Does the Linux community even realize just how many people they pissed off with their blind ass bullshit! Their promises were nothing but shitbags of anti-Microsoft bias and the inability to see the truth OR create a compelling product.

This is not directed at Linux, but the community that has done nothing but lie and lie and lie and lie. Do they really think that people would just sit back and be fed this stuff for a decade and not get pissed when Linux on the desktop has never done shit?
 
bucket said:
Epic douchebaggery.
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+9000

waaambulance.jpg
 
The Linux community has been doing this for ten years, why would they start telling the truth now?
 
The DRM they are talking about has been around since Vista, and is hardware based (in the motherboard), it's called TPM. The Vista feature is called "Bitlocker"....it's actually a good thing. What it does is assure your data is YOURS and only YOURS, so long as your password is never diverged. Given if the password is lost it's gone forever.

The thing is TPM is also the root of a few machine-specific DRM features, and they are shitting on Vista/Win7 over that. Given, this DRM is similar to the license based DRM that exists now, except the license is on the hardware....so tough shit.

At the end, DRM endorsing companies will use DRM until it's proven to them that they are better off without it...and this isn't the way.
 
heatlesssun said:
The Linux community has been doing this for ten years, why would they start telling the truth now?
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Because the biggest threat to their OSs' existences is here from the monolithic entity they despise?
I think truth and openness about their situation is their only chance now.
Windows 7 works amazing on netbooks.
It kills linux on desktops.
Is easier to install and has a larger library of applications etc..

I think it's time tat the Linux communities get together and have a dialog about what they want linux to be. It CANNOT be just an option to Windows. They need to find that ONE thing that makes them better, start from there and move out. Right now, that does not exist. There's no one thing that they can hang over the heads of every windows user.
 
By the way, linux on the desktop has sucked for one reason: there's no ergonomics in their interfaces whatsoever, so the UIs continue to suck balls. End of story....the UI is what sells the product to the average end user.....if it can do what's expected, as expected.

Doing an envelope in StarOffice is a massive pain in the ass compared to doing it in MS Office. Both piss me off for doing .x line breaks by default....what the hell ever happened to single line carriage retruns?
 
RMS said:
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not a system unto itself, but rather another gimmick of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by Dolphin, GDE and vital system components comprising a full system as defined by casuals.

Many casuals run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by SEGA.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the gimmick: the part in the system that allows casuals to waggle the mouse and send signals to casual game you play. The gimmick is an essential part of a system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" sales are really sales of GNU/Linux.
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This is the kind of guy you guys are up against.
 
earnolmartin said:
Sorry, but with all the DRM, I'll pass. Sticking with XP x64 for life... or until operating systems become something we can control again. I hope DX11 fails just like DX10 did, and I hope Windows 7 dies quickly, just like Vista.

Software companies keep supporting XP x64 please!
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I'm running 7. My music and movie collection seems to continue to be DRM free. Not sure what you're whining about.

The thought of going back to XP from 7. Ugh.
 
bonsai said:
They did that a looooong time ago. It's free.
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Sorry. That doesn't apply, as most people at least view it as free when you buy a new PC. And it's not far from the truth, considering that you cannot build a pc with an OS for the price you can buy one from HP Dell etc in the midrange prices...

And even if it was not that way, even if you could tangibly see and feel that price point, free does not equal any good. I'm referring to the usage of the computer....
 
ianken said:
I'm running 7. My music and movie collection seems to continue to be DRM free. Not sure what you're whining about.

The thought of going back to XP from 7. Ugh.
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Ironic, I think, that I set up an XP virtual machine in my wife's laptop which is now running Win7.
 
Modred189 said:
I think it's time tat the Linux communities get together and have a dialog about what they want linux to be. It CANNOT be just an option to Windows. They need to find that ONE thing that makes them better, start from there and move out. Right now, that does not exist. There's no one thing that they can hang over the heads of every windows user.
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Linux kicks ass on the back end. The problem is for the fanbois you need to go to another big evil anti-hippie giant for a good solution: IBM.

The FSF cracks me up. Linux is only "free" until you want to do something real with it. Then you need to pay, and pay big.

TCO is a bitch.
 
bonsai said:
They did that a looooong time ago. It's free.
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See, you are in that damned "it's free trap" No the hell Linux isn't free when you spending more time trying to get it working than using it!!!!!

THIS is the attitude that is killing Linux. No desire to really innovate and do the hard work. You think that hacking up code is all that it takes to make a consumer friendly OS and you're WRONG!!!!!
 
ianken said:
Linux kicks ass on the back end. The problem is for the fanbois you need to go to another big evil anti-hippie giant for a good solution: IBM.

The FSF cracks me up. Linux is only "free" until you want to do something real with it. Then you need to pay, and pay big.

TCO is a bitch.
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This is pretty much the truth. Linux is a great server environment. Linux is much more suited for servers since that's where all the REAL development for *NIX is done.

And couldn't agree more about the "free" statement. This is the REAL problem with desktop Linux and the community acts as though its just a minor issue.
 
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