2900XT Ain't That Bad...

Citizen86 said:
Don't you mean God? God sent this card on a mission, to be ironic:D

TweakTown reviews are always interesting.... not sure what to make of them. If they are willing to put "Monthly driver updates" in their list of pros instead of "need new drivers" in cons... well they obviously like the card, lol. They've done 3 reviews of the 2900XT now, and they seem to think it's getting better and better.

Meh.
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Well,
A. Toilets swirl counterclockwise down under...
B. Familiarity breeds contempt...

Now combine the two notions and we may have an explanation. :D

Seriously, its shortcomings are minor to some people, and I can say I like my card even more now that I've had it several weeks.
 
Pepsiennis said:
Well,
A. Toilets swirl counterclockwise down under...
B. Familiarity breds contempt...

Now combine the two notions and we may have an explanation. :D

Seriously, its shortcomings are minor to some people, and I can say I like my card even more now that I've had it several weeks.
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Sooooo you're saying that Australians are loony.... gotcha ;)

I'm kind of glad to see the 2900XT gaining some ground, glad it's becoming worth the money everyone's paid for it ;) Now, if the AA problems got worked out, it would be a VERY good card.
 
whip-it-good. forums get back dated and we are still flogging a dead horse:D
 
I honestly like what the 2900xt has to offer. In terms of performance and options. Plus the "black box" drool TF2

I bought a used nvidia 8800gts 640, only cuz I am poor and it was a good deal. Great card. Would I have bought a nvidia or ati new if I had the cash, well I woulda went with the ati card in all honesty.....

Just thought i would throw that out there for all the nvidia bashers. :p


I'm not a fanboy of either companey, they both are great, I own an x850xt and that card kicks some serious ass. In my main rig I have owned all nvidia, only because of price/performance

Next round I realllllllllllllllly wanna go ati. This is my dream, and that's coming from a nvidia guy lol
 
KingJames84 said:
I honestly like what the 2900xt has to offer. In terms of performance and options. Plus the "black box" drool TF2

I bought a used nvidia 8800gts 640, only cuz I am poor and it was a good deal. Great card. Would I have bought a nvidia or ati new if I had the cash, well I woulda went with the ati card in all honesty.....

Just thought i would throw that out there for all the nvidia bashers. :p


I'm not a fanboy of either companey, they both are great, I own an x850xt and that card kicks some serious ass. In my main rig I have owned all nvidia, only because of price/performance

Next round I realllllllllllllllly wanna go ati. This is my dream, and that's coming from a nvidia guy lol
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You don't sound like an Nvidia guy. You're saying that you want your next card to be an ATI card, regardless of what that card actually is. The fact that you're saying you want to go with a particular company and not picking a specific card makes you sound like a huge fanboy that doesn't care about how good or bad that card is, as long as it's made by a certain company.
 
[ T ] A C O;1031187762 said:
Flogging dead chicks er...horses is always fun in the world of [H]. :D

I am damn good at it too.
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Aaaaah! It's always good to see a man who takes pride in his work! :D
 
Pepsiennis said:
And they said Latin was a dead language. :rolleyes: ;)

By the way, head to head over at Tweaktown: 2900XT vs. 8800 Ultra! A fight, a fight! A pigger and a shite! OK Citizen86, that last is sure to bring down the forums!

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1122/asus_2900_xt_and_8800_ultra_compared/index.html
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Another worthless review.:rolleyes: They perform almost all benchmarks with no AA or AF, something that nobody sane buying the card would do, the few benchmarks they do with AA and AF show it falling off the performance ladder, and then they go to give a 9/10. Brilliant.:rolleyes:
 
Well, some cards need their particular AA maxed out for anything to look good, and some cards don't.
 
Pepsiennis said:
Well, some cards need their particular AA maxed out for anything to look good, and some cards don't.
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Congratulations!

You just won the unofficial "Moron of the Month" prize!

big_cup_of_STFU.jpg
 
owkia said:
You don't sound like an Nvidia guy. You're saying that you want your next card to be an ATI card, regardless of what that card actually is. The fact that you're saying you want to go with a particular company and not picking a specific card makes you sound like a huge fanboy that doesn't care about how good or bad that card is, as long as it's made by a certain company.
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Just a suggestion: maybe you shouldn't go around the internet calling everybody a fanboy. The guy was just stating, rather concisely and amicably, that he hopes ATi will bring it with the next generation the way they've done before, thus encouraging the competition to create something better. When everybody keeps one-upping one another, we win - otherwise it's just nVidia releasing 20 mildly different cards in one generation (as opposed to the 15 that both companies currently release). I'm going to refrain from calling you any of the obvious words that I'm thinking of right now, but if you want to read malevolence into even the most benign statements, please disconnect your keyboard.
 
Pepsiennis said:
Well, some cards need their particular AA maxed out for anything to look good, and some cards don't.
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A game w/o AA will look the same on the ATI card as it does the nVidia. I'm not sure what the hell you are talking about. Honestly you just lost all credibility with that statement.

Until resolution = infinity, the need for AA will always be there to remove jags. That is the rules.
 
^^^ And so it has come down to this....LOL Man this is just too funny. Now I know how to get more post over here in the ATi section over nVidia section. Title your thread "HD2900XT" and watch the post count go through the roof...ha ha!!
 
Pepsiennis said:
Well, some cards need their particular AA maxed out for anything to look good, and some cards don't.
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Interesting theory. Let's follow through on this and try and make some good.

If we take AA out of the question, are we assuming that we're still using AF? I suppose that, in this scenario, G80's clearly superior anisotropic filtering quality (remember that R600 uses the R5xx's less ideal "High Quality AF" by default) would make angled surfaces (those have a nasty habit of encompassing pretty much, well, everything in a typical scene) look better than that of the 2900 XT, wouldn't you think?

Do you have any data that indicates that R600's output with all advanced options disabled differs less vastly from the D3D9 reference rasterizer than does G80? If so, I'd love to see it.
 
aop said:
Congratulations!

You just won the unofficial "Moron of the Month" prize!
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Ah, so someone IS awake out there! Now aop, honestly... if you were a bass you'd be on some fat ass' wall long before now. It was just too easy to draw you out like that. Do you fall for the old 'dollar bill being pulled on a string' trick as well? :D Some of ya'll are entirely too gullible!
 
Pepsiennis said:
Ah, so someone IS awake out there! Now aop, honestly... if you were a bass you'd be on some fat ass' wall long before now. It was just too easy to draw you out like that. Do you fall for the old 'dollar bill being pulled on a string' trick as well? :D Some of ya'll are entirely too gullible!
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Way to try to back that foot right out of that mouth. Sell us another one before you get fanboy lockjaw.
 
Pepsiennis said:
Ah, so someone IS awake out there! Now aop, honestly... if you were a bass you'd be on some fat ass' wall long before now. It was just too easy to draw you out like that. Do you fall for the old 'dollar bill being pulled on a string' trick as well? :D Some of ya'll are entirely too gullible!
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9/10 for a nice try.
 
The ATI card has some real advantages I don't see going into any reviews.

1) I can use my existing Water cooling setup on it (maybe new ramsinks) saves me $150 doallars right there.
2) I have way to many driver issues using my westy 37's on my Nvidia graphics card, moving to ATV would slove them hands down. (for once I think ATi drivers might be better than Nvidias lol).

Well i dunno still a tossup fo rme...
 
I think this card has some potential,if it is in mature drivers or programming the shaders just right I dont know.But,it has some weaknesses ie.,pipelines,rops ect.problem is will someone program for this card more than any other?Sales can not be that good with all of the negative press.I am not knocking the card just wondering.
 
Proxy said:
Dude you gotta learn to relax a bit..
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Earlier in this thread someone suggested I lighten up, so I make what should have been an obvious joke, but one with a few points to it (catch an overzealous fanboy, thank you aop for stepping up) and to point out that with all various resolutions being used, and all the antialiasing options available, and that ATI and Nvidia take very different approaches to antialiasing, the end result is that it is entirely subjective what is or isn't acceptable performance in games. My point, which was obliquely seconded (though I'm sure it wasn't his intention to help) by Trepidati0n as quoted below...

Trepidati0n said:
A game w/o AA will look the same on the ATI card as it does the nVidia.
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..., is that one has to turn AA off simply to have them play on the same field. I say that because agree with it or not, lots of people still find apples to apples comparisons useful to them as it shows the raw 'muscle'. [H] is right in that graphics cards have moved far beyond the point where that raw oomph is the overarching factor in performance, but people still ask for it and other sites still listen. So it seems that for a very few people, a joke is only a joke when it is at a 2900XT owners expense? Well to those few; ya'll should really take your own advice, and learn to relax: Dude, it's [H] Forums, of fucking course AA is a keystone feature in regards to graphics performance! Jesus on a stick! Some are so eager for a fight that they miss the joke and (rather foolishly) swallow the bait. You stepped in it twice. Though I must admit I do err in crediting the occasional rube with being capable of reasoning further than one step away from the obvious, or more than one level of thought per statement. 3D graphics, 2D thinking. Next time I'll just draw pictures in crayon... green crayon. :rolleyes:
 
That raw muscle is a pretty weak argument. Then you must have bought Intel when Netburst was cool and completely laughed in the face of AMD? I mean...Intel procs had the "raw muscle".
 
Citizen86 said:
I don't remember Jesus ever being on a stick... Or was that on the boat?
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Burkenstoks, wasn't it? Well, Citizen86, I apologize for the blasphemy both upstairs and on our level. Just some people get so into their little 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers' routine whenever their button gets pushed, then all the other assimilants come pointing, with mouths open and screeching. It makes me wonder if the divine spark that is supposed to be in each of us might have been a feature abandoned by the Maker because it just wasn't applied by the end user. Much like Linkburst, to make an ironic analogy. I'll demonstrate...



"It’s less a question of whether DX10 is working optimally... and more a case of how is DX10 being used. To use it well – and efficiently – requires development time...

“...(in DX10) there are API reductions, massive AA is ‘almost free’ with DX10. This is why we are able to offer **AA ... up to **x with new DX10 titles – the same thing with DX9 just isn’t practical. AA makes things pretty but what we really want to see from DX10 – and what DX10 offers is the chance to do things we haven’t seen before...

“So yes we will see big performance jumps in DX10 and Vista as we improve drivers but to keep looking at that area is to really miss the point about DX10. It’s not about – and it was never about – running older games at faster frame rates. PC Gamers weren’t getting antsy demanding Far Cry run at 200 fps instead of 100 fps – what PC gamers want are better, more immersive, compelling PC games. DX10 is going to give them that – it was never invented to make games they’ve already played and moved on from just run faster.”



A certain graphics company exec said that, and it supports what many 2900XT owners have been offering as one of their reasons for choosing this card: they were looking ahead a few months to when games developed from the ground up for DX10 begin to appear.
 
Pepsiennis said:
Burkenstoks, wasn't it? Well, Citizen86, I apologize for the blasphemy both upstairs and on our level. Just some people get so into their little 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers' routine whenever their button gets pushed, then all the other assimilants come pointing, with mouths open and screeching. It makes me wonder if the divine spark that is supposed to be in each of us might have been a feature abandoned by the Maker because it just wasn't applied by the end user. Much like Linkburst, to make an ironic analogy. I'll demonstrate...



"It’s less a question of whether DX10 is working optimally... and more a case of how is DX10 being used. To use it well – and efficiently – requires development time...

“...(in DX10) there are API reductions, massive AA is ‘almost free’ with DX10. This is why we are able to offer **AA ... up to **x with new DX10 titles – the same thing with DX9 just isn’t practical. AA makes things pretty but what we really want to see from DX10 – and what DX10 offers is the chance to do things we haven’t seen before...

“So yes we will see big performance jumps in DX10 and Vista as we improve drivers but to keep looking at that area is to really miss the point about DX10. It’s not about – and it was never about – running older games at faster frame rates. PC Gamers weren’t getting antsy demanding Far Cry run at 200 fps instead of 100 fps – what PC gamers want are better, more immersive, compelling PC games. DX10 is going to give them that – it was never invented to make games they’ve already played and moved on from just run faster.”



A certain graphics company exec said that, and it supports what many 2900XT owners have been offering as one of their reasons for choosing this card: they were looking ahead a few months to when games developed from the ground up for DX10 begin to appear.
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lol, don't worry I wasn't offended, just thought it was a funny saying :D And it's too bad about the screeching banshees you have to deal with HAH!

Anyways, I agree to a point... No, I don't care how fast my video card runs Far Cry, we've been able to run that game on high for quite a while now. What I still think though is what it comes down to is, ok, MAYBE this new card will be able to play new games well... but these new games still are not out, so you're taking a pretty big gamble on what somebody trying to sell their product is saying about uncertainties that we have no way of making sure of, which I wouldn't trust very much.

And as far as the card performing in today's games, I think at this point in time it's just going to be in the eye of the beholder. If he thinks the ATI card is worth the money or if there is something better out there.

All this talk about AA makes me wish I had the 640mb version GTS :(
 
Trepidati0n said:
That raw muscle is a pretty weak argument. Then you must have bought Intel when Netburst was cool and completely laughed in the face of AMD? I mean...Intel procs had the "raw muscle".
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Hey, I didn't say it was my argument or wish, just relating what some sites have stated as their reasons for doing things the way they do. And no, Bro', I rode the AMD train from 486 through K6-II, K6-III, K7, Athlon 64X2 and finally moved to Intel C2D beginning of this year. When I saw a legitimate price/performance advantage (in the context of my finances at the time of each purchase) I chose accordingly, just as I did with the 2900XT. I haven't yet regretted one of those purchases I mentioned, though I did regret some others when I bought according to websites instead of my own horse sense.
 
Pepsiennis said:
Burkenstoks, wasn't it? Well, Citizen86, I apologize for the blasphemy both upstairs and on our level. Just some people get so into their little 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers' routine whenever their button gets pushed, then all the other assimilants come pointing, with mouths open and screeching. It makes me wonder if the divine spark that is supposed to be in each of us might have been a feature abandoned by the Maker because it just wasn't applied by the end user. Much like Linkburst, to make an ironic analogy. I'll demonstrate...



"It’s less a question of whether DX10 is working optimally... and more a case of how is DX10 being used. To use it well – and efficiently – requires development time...

“...(in DX10) there are API reductions, massive AA is ‘almost free’ with DX10. This is why we are able to offer **AA ... up to **x with new DX10 titles – the same thing with DX9 just isn’t practical. AA makes things pretty but what we really want to see from DX10 – and what DX10 offers is the chance to do things we haven’t seen before...

“So yes we will see big performance jumps in DX10 and Vista as we improve drivers but to keep looking at that area is to really miss the point about DX10. It’s not about – and it was never about – running older games at faster frame rates. PC Gamers weren’t getting antsy demanding Far Cry run at 200 fps instead of 100 fps – what PC gamers want are better, more immersive, compelling PC games. DX10 is going to give them that – it was never invented to make games they’ve already played and moved on from just run faster.”



A certain graphics company exec said that, and it supports what many 2900XT owners have been offering as one of their reasons for choosing this card: they were looking ahead a few months to when games developed from the ground up for DX10 begin to appear.
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I don't think you know that that was the exact same reasoning NVIDIA used with the FX line and I'm sure you remember how that turned out.
Not only is it a mistake to skip the present and think only about the future (for a money making company, since profts will go down, at least in short term), but it's also naive to believe that all game developers will adopt these methods, fast enough to make this card worth anything. NVIDIA did that and they failed. If this was ATI's reasoning aswell, then they clearly didn't learn with their competitors mistakes...
 
Silus said:
I don't think you know that that was the exact same reasoning NVIDIA used with the FX line and I'm sure you remember how that turned out.
Not only is it a mistake to skip the present and think only about the future (for a money making company, since profts will go down, at least in short term), but it's also naive to believe that all game developers will adopt these methods, fast enough to make this card worth anything. NVIDIA did that and they failed. If this was ATI's reasoning aswell, then they clearly didn't learn with their competitors mistakes...
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Oh, I'd have to disagree with you on that, Silus.
 
Citizen86 said:
Guess we'll have to see in Crysis ;)
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And World in Conflict. ;)

I happen to agree with that industry view I quoted above: assuming the card gives playable framerates, after that fact I don't give a turd what the control panel says if it looks good to me and the card allows the game to draw me in and have an enjoyable time, then I'm satisfied enough with the card.
 
stoney_titan said:
Your grammar ain't bad either OP. However, its far from perfect. :D
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Tank'ee muchly, Stoney! Seriously, it helps everyone if we at least make an effort to spell correctly. And my grammar is only poor when I choose to make a point... as is my spelling at such moments, along the line of "ain't" and "ya'll". But there are the occasional few who leave one thinking they couldn't spell out the acronym if they had to, or string two clauses together, but at the same moment are troubling others about something they don't own (like a guy who crashes a party and then complains to the host about the dip). If someone is so careless with grammatical details, why on earth would I then believe the hardware details he offers (if indeed he has a point and not just an insult)? I'll remain mute on whether it's moot to hold it's in preference to "its".
 
Pepsiennis said:
Just some people get so into their little 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers' routine whenever their button gets pushed, then all the other assimilants come pointing, with mouths open and screeching.
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I am, quite frankly, marveled at your opinion of yourself and your supposed power of your words in impacting others.

A brilliant murderer who steps in sand will cover his tracks as well as you attempted to do. The problem is that we're not just a gaggle of dumb detectives. A child will utter the words "it was just a joke!" in much the same manner as you did, because they often lack a quality we call empathy.

I'm sorry, but we're not children, and shadows and smoke do not mystify us as they would a child.

Now, let's see if you to respond with something akin to "lighten up, this is the Hardforum", and perhaps one or two *rolls eyes*.
 
phide said:
I am, quite frankly, marveled at your opinion of yourself and your supposed power of your words in impacting others.

A brilliant murderer who steps in sand will cover his tracks as well as you attempted to do. The problem is that we're not just a gaggle of dumb detectives. A child will usher the words "it was just a joke!" in much the same manner as you did, because they often lack a quality we call empathy.

I'm sorry, but we're not children, and shadows and smoke do not mystify us as they would a child.

Now, let's see if you to respond with something akin to "lighten up, this is the Hardforum", and perhaps one or two *rolls eyes*.
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Hi, Phide! How's it hanging? Speaking of footprints, here's one set I must be childishly waddling after: Roy Taylor, Vice President of Content Relations, Nvidia. It's a good read. See ya.

P.S. Is usher synonymous with utter?

P.P.S. Mr. Taylor seems to have a higher opinion of "shadow and smoke" than you. What a looser he is! How usherly pwned the sod is!
(For the sarcasm impaired, the words in bold italics are intentionally incorrect. Thank you)
 
Citizen86, remember the demonstration I mentioned earlier? It has been completed with the help of Phide. Linkburst. Also worth noting is that those who take an unfavorable view of my earlier comments concerning AA are now placed in an awkward position: admit they're fanboys, or disregard both Nvidia and ATI in their position that once DX10 is properly implemented in games, antialiasing has been shown the door. Oh, and it'll be lugging the "2900XT can't do AA" garbage out with it.
 
Silus said:
I don't think you know that that was the exact same reasoning NVIDIA used with the FX line and I'm sure you remember how that turned out.
Not only is it a mistake to skip the present and think only about the future (for a money making company, since profts will go down, at least in short term), but it's also naive to believe that all game developers will adopt these methods, fast enough to make this card worth anything. NVIDIA did that and they failed. If this was ATI's reasoning aswell, then they clearly didn't learn with their competitors mistakes...
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It's even more ironic that they not only made the same mistake on the conceptual level, but also made at least part of exactly the same mistake on the actual design level--they fell for the lure of VLIW logic. Elegant in theory, suicide in practice. Engineering hubris bit them in the butt. How it could have happened after the GeForce FX disaster, we may never know. An investigative journalist could probably write a wonderful business book as a cautionary tale for others if he or she could ferret out the truth.
 
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