2900XT Ain't That Bad...

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Pepsiennis

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
1,290
OK, I know every troll will come out from under his bridge packing a flamethrower when I tramp, tramp, tramp along saying this, but here we go anywho:

I've had my Sapphire HD 2900XT for a little over a week now and it ain't that bad. To hear people before talk, I was thinking my system and exhaust temps would be enough to bake bread, but neither have budged since adding this card. It's running along at a 58c average, never breaking 70 when gaming. Then the noise issue: there isn't one. Does the noise come with a voucher, as well? I can't hear the card except for a few seconds at boot, then it tones down. As for performance, it beats the snot out of the X1900XT's I was using before it, both in speed and image quality. I bought the card on May 31 and installed the 8.37.4.* driver, then uninstalled, and installed the 8.38 driver on June 1, and there was a noticable improvement.

To sum up, I hate to disappoint anyone, but I'm liking this card a damn lot. I'm reminded of a quote from Monty Python and the Holy Grail (and you'd best stop at this parenthetical if you don't care for MP. It's stupid, yes, but also entirely germaine to the issue because of that fact), when brave Brave Sir Robin says to... Tim, in reference to the evil beast that awaited them:

"You stupid sod! You got us all worked up for nothing. I soiled my armor, I was so scared!"
 
If you're going to compare it to a 1900 then of course it isn't that bad... It's the repalcement for the 1900 afterall, so it should be better... However, if you compare it to it's real competition, the 8800 series, it IS that bad.. When a brand new card performs significanly worse than a card that has been around for months, all the while consuming more power, that is bad, period.
 
RamonGTP said:
If you're going to compare it to a 1900 then of course it isn't that bad... It's the repalcement for the 1900 afterall, so it should be better... However, if you compare it to it's real competition, the 8800 series, it IS that bad.. When a brand new card performs significanly worse than a card that has been around for months, all the while consuming more power, that is bad, period.
Click to expand...

"...But look at the bones!"

Dude, using that logic any homerun champion from the last ten years would be expunged from the record books in favor of Babe Ruth or Hank Aaron. When the industry determines a set date that 'homework' is due, then your view would be more applicable. Now, I'm not so flush as that I can buy a GTS to compare it to, but a LOT, dare I say most, of review sites are finding it the equal or even better of the GTS, for which it was originally intended to vie. That's other's opinion, but my opinion is that it's a pretty good card.
 
RamonGTP said:
If you're going to compare it to a 1900 then of course it isn't that bad... It's the repalcement for the 1900 afterall, so it should be better... However, if you compare it to it's real competition, the 8800 series, it IS that bad.. When a brand new card performs significanly worse than a card that has been around for months, all the while consuming more power, that is bad, period.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly! Sure it isn't bad compared to... (being shot at..?) but it certainly is bad compared to the 8800 series. If the 8800s didn't exist, then I'm sure we'll be prising the 2900 and its outstanding performance and IQ. But too bad for ati the 8800 DOES exist, thus making the 2900 rather bad for its price/performance/power consumption/noise ratio...

In other words sure one can be happy with a 2900xt after something like a x1900. But if you were "upgrading" to the 2900 after an 8800 GTS or GTX then you propably wouldn't have posted this, LOL.
 
SuperKeijo said:
My thoughts exactly! Sure it isn't bad compared to... (being shot at..?) but it certainly is bad compared to the 8800 series. If the 8800s didn't exist, then I'm sure we'll be prising the 2900 and its outstanding performance and IQ. But too bad for ati the 8800 DOES exist, thus making the 2900 rather bad for its price/performance/power consumption/noise ratio...

In other words sure one can be happy with a 2900xt after something like a x1900. But if you were "upgrading" to the 2900 after an 8800 GTS or GTX then you propably wouldn't have posted this, LOL.
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Where I live (China) Nvidia didn't even bother trying to undercut the HD 2900XT launch by dropping prices on its 8800 series of cards, LOL. In fact they haven't moved noticably since December, as I was considering them as well, LOL. Thus, when considering the price/performance/noise ratio, it's the winner, LOL. As hard as it is to believe, there are hardware enthusiasts in other countries, and when looked at from other markets' perspectives, the 2900XT, LOL, often wins.
 
Pepsiennis said:
Where I live (China) Nvidia didn't even bother trying to undercut the HD 2900XT launch by dropping prices on its 8800 series of cards, LOL. In fact they haven't moved noticably since December, as I was considering them as well, LOL. Thus, when considering the price/performance/noise ratio, it's the winner, LOL. As hard as it is to believe, there are hardware enthusiasts in other countries, and when looked at from other markets' perspectives, the 2900XT, LOL, often wins.
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I'm sorry I don't have a clue what you're saying. And maybe nvidia didn't drop prices because they didn't have to. If the 2900 would have actually been any good, maybe nvidia would have.
 
SuperKeijo said:
I'm sorry I don't have a clue what you're saying. And maybe nvidia didn't drop prices because they didn't have to. If the 2900 would have actually been any good, maybe nvidia would have.
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So the 2900XT was better in America where Nvidia cut prices on the eve of the launch? Oh, very patriotic of the card. Well, thanks for supporting my opinion.
 
Pepsiennis said:
So the 2900XT was better in America where Nvidia cut prices on the eve of the launch? Oh, very patriotic of the card. Well, thanks for supporting my opinion.
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8800 prices didn't react at all to the 2900 launch in the US, not sure what you're referring to.

I bought my 8800gts 320 for 279 a few months ago, well before 2900, and it's at the same price or more expensive still anywhere I look, really good rebate deals not included, but those always happen.
 
Well if you have any faith in the Call of juarez DX10 benchmark (TWIMTBP game) the 2900XT is sticking with the 8800GTX pretty well. I havent seen anyones GTS 640mb reasults yet, but the 320MB is getting hammered.
 
debello_64 said:
Well if you have any faith in the Call of juarez DX10 (TWIMTBP game) the 2900XT is sticking with the 8800GTX pretty well. I havent seen anyones GTS 640mb reasults yet, the 320MB is getting hammered.
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Call of juarez benchmark is shoddy. Haven't run it myself, but all the numbers I've been reading where people are getting 5fps with 8800 series cards is prettty revealing about CoJ, not about dx10 cards.
 
Pepsiennis said:
"...But look at the bones!"

Dude, using that logic any homerun champion from the last ten years would be expunged from the record books in favor of Babe Ruth or Hank Aaron. When the industry determines a set date that 'homework' is due, then your view would be more applicable. Now, I'm not so flush as that I can buy a GTS to compare it to, but a LOT, dare I say most, of review sites are finding it the equal or even better of the GTS, for which it was originally intended to vie. That's other's opinion, but my opinion is that it's a pretty good card.
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Equal to and maybe SLIGHTLY better than the GTS 320MB, not the 640, and significanly worse than the GTX/Ultra... And consumes more power than ANY of those cards.. Again, NOT a good card. I mean, if you want to narrow down your competition criteria that much, lets do that for everything else, let's narrow down EVERY new product and only compare it with prodcuts that it is better than, that is afterall, what you are doing. By your point of view, the FX series of cards from nVidia were pretty damn good, afterall, they were a lot faster than the Ti4200/4400/4600 that they replaced right? Give me a break, you're comparing a new generation DX10 card to a previous generation DX9 card and calling it good. :rolleyes:
 
Technoob said:
Call of juarez benchmark is shoddy. Haven't run it myself, but all the numbers I've been reading where people are getting 5fps with 8800 series cards is prettty revealing about CoJ, not about dx10 cards.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the CoJ developers must have driven a harder bargain with Nvidia. As for prices, if memory serves, a great number of notables here at the H, Messr.'s Bennett, Justice, and Doborowski to name a few, all made reference to price cuts at that time.
 
Show me the across the board MSRP price cuts "on the eve" of the 2900, I'd love to retroactively get this nonexistent deal.
 
RamonGTP said:
Equal to and maybe SLIGHTLY better than the GTS 320MB, not the 640, and significanly worse than the GTX/Ultra... And consumes more power than ANY of those cards.. Again, NOT a good card. I mean, if you want to narrow down your competition criteria that much, lets do that for everything else, let's narrow down EVERY new product and only compare it with prodcuts that it is better than, that is afterall, what you are doing. By your point of view, the FX series of cards from nVidia were pretty damn good, afterall, they were a lot faster than the Ti4200/4400/4600 that they replaced right? Give me a break, you're comparing a new generation DX10 card to a previous generation DX9 card and calling it good. :rolleyes:
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Well, I've read of it matching the GTS 640, as well, in benchmarks in the review of many respectable (diligent and knowledgable) hardware sites. As for power, since when has an enthusiast given a thought to power consumption? And I have observed that most new generations of technology initiate with greater power consumption, then refine things. Does the 2900XT have an issue with power? It would seem only for the green (environmental or Nvidian, your choice) enthusiast is it a deal breaker. Speaking of breaks, yours is granted: I never mentioned DirectX, as it's not practical to discuss it yet. lastly, what else am I to compare it to if not the other products I've used? Maybe others have one of every product for sale or review and thus the luxury of sweeping comparisons, but I have my kit only and work in that context, from which my thoughts derived. Your experience probably differes greatly because your kit is quite different. Kyle Bennett is fond of making reference to user experience. This user's experience is that it's a pretty darned good card.
 
An enthusiest may not be concerned with power requirments, an enthusiest would also not consider a brand new generation card that was hyped up, to be a pretty darned good card when it falls short of it's mark. You like the card and it's all well and good, the fact of the matter is that most people looking for a high end card are going to opt for the 8800 becuase it's better in just about every way.

Oh, and in multi GPU configurations it gets it's ass handed to it even worse.
 
Pepsiennis said:
Well, I've read of it matching the GTS 640, as well, in benchmarks in the review of many respectable (diligent and knowledgable) hardware sites. As for power, since when has an enthusiast given a thought to power consumption? And I have observed that most new generations of technology initiate with greater power consumption, then refine things. Does the 2900XT have an issue with power? It would seem only for the green (environmental or Nvidian, your choice) enthusiast is it a deal breaker. Speaking of breaks, yours is granted: I never mentioned DirectX, as it's not practical to discuss it yet. lastly, what else am I to compare it to if not the other products I've used? Maybe others have one of every product for sale or review and thus the luxury of sweeping comparisons, but I have my kit only and work in that context, from which my thoughts derived. Your experience probably differes greatly because your kit is quite different. Kyle Bennett is fond of making reference to user experience. This user's experience is that it's a pretty darned good card.
Click to expand...

nobody ever said it didn't give a subjective good experience. It's a good card that gives good performance to those who buy it. Stop defending the card as if the attacks on it were that it gave 4 fps in 5 year old games.

If you can't differentiate between subjective experience for yourself and objective comparisons that include price, release to market, power consumption, performance relative to competition, and so forth, then you have the problem.

Congrats on enjoying your card, nobody ever said you shouldn't or couldn't do so. Just stop attacking strawmen that aren't real about your perception of how others view your card.
 
Technoob said:
Show me the across the board MSRP price cuts "on the eve" of the 2900, I'd love to retroactively get this nonexistent deal.
Click to expand...

"Across the board" are your words and you are the first to utter them. perhaps you thought I had at least implied them. Well, so does Mr. Justice on Page 16, paragraph two of [H]Enthusiast's review of the HD 2900XT, which I'll quote here:

"Not only that, but a GeForce 8800 GTS 640 MB based video card can now be had for up to $70 cheaper than the Radeon HD 2900 XT."

Now, I'm using that quote to address technoob's implication that I'd implied what Mr. Justice implied.
 
Pepsiennis said:
"Across the board" are your words and you are the first to utter them. perhaps you thought I had at least implied them. Well, so does Mr. Justice on Page 16, paragraph two of [H]Enthusiast's review of the HD 2900XT, which I'll quote here:

"Not only that, but a GeForce 8800 GTS 640 MB based video card can now be had for up to $70 cheaper than the Radeon HD 2900 XT."

Now, I'm using that quote to address technoob's implication that I'd implied what Mr. Justice implied.
Click to expand...

"can now be had" refers to the fact that the 2900 is coming 6-7 months later than the 2900, and has NOTHING to do with a supposed price cut "on the eve" of the 2900 release that you said.

That's all you've got? Geez.
 
Pepsiennis said:
"Across the board" are your words and you are the first to utter them. perhaps you thought I had at least implied them. Well, so does Mr. Justice on Page 16, paragraph two of [H]Enthusiast's review of the HD 2900XT, which I'll quote here:

"Not only that, but a GeForce 8800 GTS 640 MB based video card can now be had for up to $70 cheaper than the Radeon HD 2900 XT."

Now, I'm using that quote to address technoob's implication that I'd implied what Mr. Justice implied.
Click to expand...

Ok, so when I say: "a Fiat can now be had for 200 000$ less than a Ferrari" Where in that sentence do I say anything about Fiat making price cuts?
 
Technoob said:
nobody ever said it didn't give a subjective good experience. It's a good card that gives good performance to those who buy it. Stop defending the card as if the attacks on it were that it gave 4 fps in 5 year old games.

If you can't differentiate between subjective experience for yourself and objective comparisons that include price, release to market, power consumption, performance relative to competition, and so forth, then you have the problem.

Congrats on enjoying your card, nobody ever said you shouldn't or couldn't do so. Just stop attacking strawmen that aren't real about your perception of how others view your card.
Click to expand...

My friend, I stated in my post that this was my opinion of my new card. It would be quite clear to most that my post was indeed subjective. But when someone comes to me and says what I think isn't hot is hot, what I think isn't loud is loud... telling me what to think, in short (as that's the net result if I do not restate my subjective opinion in my own post)... I certainly will defend my opinion. So please do not try to redefine my opinion. I never said another had a problem, and you even implying I have a 'problem' if I don't let you redefine my subjective opinion into your objective one is plainly an arrogant practice that is proliferating in this particular forum.
 
Pepsiennis said:
My friend, I stated in my post that this was my opinion of my new card. It would be quite clear to most that my post was indeed subjective. But when someone one comes to me and says what I think isn't hot is hot, what I think isn't loud is loud... telling me what to think, in short (as that's the net result if I do not restate my subjective opinion in my own post)... I certainly will defend my opinion. So please do not try to redefine my opinion. I never said another had a problem, and you even implying I am in error if I don't let you redefine my subjective opinion into your objective one is plainly an arrogant practice that is proliferating in this particular forum.
Click to expand...

Your subjective opinions don't change objective facts regarding price point and performance and such. As to noise, I'm glad yours is quiet. That wlays depends on case, fan speed, proximity to PC and so forth, so it is in fact very subjective.
 
Technoob said:
Your subjective opinions don't change objective facts regarding price point and performance and such. As to noise, I'm glad yours is quiet. That wlays depends on case, fan speed, proximity to PC and so forth, so it is in fact very subjective.
Click to expand...

Isn't there a rule in these forums about hijacking threads? Or is ganging up in hyena-packs yelling "Objective! Objective" in a subjective thread, one started with the purpose of discussing 2900XT owners' (subjective) opinions of their card, changing the very tenor and intent of a thread, not enough to qualify as threadjacking? You notice many other 2900XT owners here in this thread? No. because they know that as sure as the sun rises that a bunch of you will come along and ruin any chance of two of them talking together about their product.
 
Oh man, the title itself is flame bait. I will give my .02 since I owned the 8800GTS 640MB and NOW I own the HD2900XT. Eventhough games benchmarks have the 8800GTS ahead I fell no difference between the two and IQ to me is better with the HD2900XT. Other than that Heat issue (I watercooled) the 8800GTS ran hotter, power issue -- I have a powerful PSU, and noise issue (I watercooled) but the noise level is the same as the 8800GTS. Now, I also like to run bencharmks I can tell you that the HD2900XT keeps up with the 8800GTX. If you really think about what Pepsiennis said, he expected the HD2900XT to perform worst since reading all the crap and seeing the bad reviews than what the card is actually performing.
 
Pepsiennis said:
Isn't there a rule in these forums about hijacking threads? Or is ganging up in hyena-packs yelling "Objective! Objective" in a subjective thread, one started with the purpose of discussing 2900XT owners' (subjective) opinions of their card, changing the very tenor and intent of a thread, not enough to qualify as threadjacking? You notice many other 2900XT owners here in this thread? No. because they know that as sure as the sun rises that a bunch of you will come along and ruin any chance of two of them talking together about their product.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what reaction you were hoping to provoke with a thread on a *discussion forum* where you stated your opinions. Did you not want any commentary? Maybe a blog would have been a better place to write decrees that you hoped nobody would get a chance to respond to.

If you can't handle a discussion of the material you yourself posted, then by all means, start writing decrees or proclamations rather than creating discussion topics in a public forum.

Having said that, enjoy your card!
 
Technoob said:
I'm not sure what reaction you were hoping to provoke with a thread on a *discussion forum* where you stated your opinions. Did you not want any commentary? Maybe a blog would have been a better place to write decrees that you hoped nobody would get a chance to respond to.

If you can't handle a discussion of the material you yourself posted, then by all means, start writing decrees or proclamations rather than creating discussion topics in a public forum.

Having said that, enjoy your card!
Click to expand...

I'm not here in these forums to be anyone's goddamned target. People talk about 'flamebait' as if flaming were allowed in [H]Forums rules! Well, read them again, it isn't. And so one is left to their own civilized manners to control themselves. Forums: a place where topics are discussed, not shouted down. I'd love to discuss this card with people who know what they are talking about: owners of the card in question, not a bunch of guys with Nvidia cards in their sigs, cards that are so good that instead of discussing them, ya'll have to hang out in the ATI section of the bleachers. Discussion is welcome, it's why I come here. But people putting words in my mouth I didn't say, acting boorish by constantly causing the thread to digress, who pepper their 'objective' facts with personal imprecations... no, that person I don't care to discuss any matter with, and I hope they would recover what manners they ever possessed and move along to another thread.
 
Pepsiennis said:
Forums: a place where topics are discussed, not shouted down. I'd love to discuss this card with people who know what they are talking about: owners of the card in question,
Click to expand...

Two bad assumptions:
1. That opinions other than yours are not "discussion". That is in fact, wrong.
2. That only owners of the card can know what they are talking about.

You've made it very clear that your idea of a "discussion" is making a post, then having only people who agree with you come into the thread and pat each other on the backs about how awesome something is. Anyone with a differing opinion OBVIOUSLY can't be correct, and must be kept out of the thread by claiming they are "starting a flame war".

Disagreement with your underlying premise isn't a flamewar, and if you're going to make assertions, like you have in this thread, maybe you should man up and prepare for opinions that might differ from your own.

Otherwise, post somewhere where nobody can comment to disagree. I'd suggest work as a columnist or blogging with comments turned off.
 
SuperKeijo said:
Why do I get the feeling this thread will be 50 pages long by the end of the week.
Click to expand...

Because any thread that mentions the 2900 becomes a 8800 marketing campaign, especially when someone says something positive about it.

OP, I am glad you like your new card, I know I am in love with mine. No more "Video driver crashes" and "no more having to reboot to enable multi GPU". I look at the HD2900XT like the AMD 6000+ X2, it is slower here, equal there, might win once and a while. But DAAMIT its a solid card.
 
Someone that owns a Nvidia card double posted, it must mean that the 8800 series sucks. Its not hot enough, doesnt double my power bill, and the FPS are way to high. :D

Sorry I know it is off topic but couldnt help myself
 
I think everyone needs to calm down a bit.

jeez guys, they are freakin' video cards, its not like you are comparing your penis size.


as for the debate, lets just sum it up with the next line and stop the flaming.

some people like the performance of 2900 based on thier experiences with other cards, and some poeple hate the 2900 based on the performance benchmarks it has. Where as some people like the performance of the 8800 series based on their experiences with other cards, and some other people like the 8800gtx based on the performance benchmarks it has.


^ there, thats all there really is to this entire thread. let pepsi be with how he likes his card, it a damn good card. just because there are better cards doesnt make that one any worse. he didnt say it was better, just that it was good. so meh. stop with the flames
 
debello_64 said:
Someone that owns a Nvidia card double posted, it must mean that the 8800 series sucks. Its not hot enough, doesnt double my power bill, and the FPS are way to high. :D

Sorry I know it is off topic but couldnt help myself
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My old collection of ATI cards (that performed awesomely for me for 6 years before I bought this one...oh god, I'm such an Nvidia fanboy) must have been mad at the injustice of my posts, so they jumped onto the keyboard and hit backspace.

Like I said before, enjoy the card. Just don't make things up and pretend nobody can come in and correct you.

Have a nice day.
 
debello_64 said:
Because any thread that mentions the 2900 becomes a 8800 marketing campaign, especially when someone says something positive about it.

OP, I am glad you like your new card, I know I am in love with mine. No more "Video driver crashes" and "no more having to reboot to enable multi GPU". I look at the HD2900XT like the AMD 6000+ X2, it is slower here, equal there, might win once and a while. But DAAMIT its a solid card.
Click to expand...

Thank you debello_64, I agree with both the marketing comment and your observations on the card. It's not a willy-waver, but it gets the job done quite well!

Technoob, I see from your sig you're riding Nvidia. Unless you own this card and use it daily, what knowledge of the card do you possess that is first-hand, thus most relevant to the discussion? Because if you haven't first-hand experience with this card, you're really just talking out of school, aren't you, and so not contributing much that hasn't been absorbed by others who can read English.

Oh, and the 'man up' comment is a fine example of imprecations, as I mentioned earlier: I rightly tagged you as derailing the discussion of an ATI card and trying to switch it onto the Nvidia tracks, and so you have to start questioning my 'manliness'. It seems you are, indeed, off topic.
 
Stock, there aren't large differences between the HD 2900XT and the 8800GTS 640mb. I'd buy the cheaper card.

If you are an overclocker the HD 2900XT is probably the better buy, particularly if you use water cooling. It does very well in games like "Oblivion", "Rainbow 6: Vegas" and "CoD2". If I used water cooling and was upgrading from a 7900GT or GTX, I'd buy one myself. I'd likely be able to get 850-880 on the core without vmods.

If you aren't in a rush to buy something I'd wait and see what gets released this fall.
 
According to pepsis logic

-You CANNOT know anything about surgery unless you've done it yourself
-You CANNOT have any idea what so ever about flying unless you've piloted a plain yourself

etc...

Actually, acording to pepsi, none of you have the right to discuss video cards because you haven't built them yourself. Thus you can't know anything about the components and architecture and so on. SO STFU ALL!! :p :cool: :D
 
I use the 2900XT in Vista primarily. Though it runs wonderfully in XP (I was surprised to get a 3DMark06 of 11,987!), it really seems better suited to Vista, which leads me to speculate that as games, benchmarks, and other programs are better optimized for Vista, ATI's engineers goals with this technology might become clearer.
 
SuperKeijo said:
According to pepsis logic

-You CANNOT know anything about surgery unless you've done it yourself
-You CANNOT have any idea what so ever about flying unless you've piloted a plain yourself

etc...

Actually, acording to pepsi, none of you have the right to discuss video cards because you haven't built them yourself. Thus you can't know anything about the components and architecture and so on. SO STFU ALL!! :p :cool: :D
Click to expand...

Again, I never said cannot, I said, in essence, 'could not unless...'. I'm not going to say anything about an 8800 series card's performance cause I can't: I don't use one. If I owned one I could. And I never said squat, either overtly or by implication, about building video cards. Thank you for illustrating my point of putting words in other people's mouths. And lastly, I never said STFU to anyone here.
 
Blacklash said:
Stock, there aren't large differences between the HD 2900XT and the 8800GTS 640mb. I'd buy the cheaper card.

If you are an overclocker the HD 2900XT is probably the better buy, particularly if you use water cooling. It does very well in games like "Oblivion", "Rainbow 6: Vegas" and "CoD2". If I used water cooling and was upgrading from a 7900GT or GTX, I'd buy one myself. I'd likely be able to get 850-880 on the core without vmods.

If you aren't in a rush to buy something I'd wait and see what gets released this fall.
Click to expand...

Blacklash, I've heard the 2900XT doesn't do so well in Oblivion, but you just said it does. I've seen your other posts about your experience with this card. What do you think is its largest weakness, as a gaming card?
 
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